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<kof673>
> my what # the Latin word Rubico comes from the adjective rubeus, meaning "red". The river was so named because its waters are colored red by iron deposits
<kof673>
narrator: and a phoenix, floating in a red sea
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<geist>
HELO
<ring0_starr>
kof, your code style is... peculiar, for lack of a better word
<ring0_starr>
it looks like the source to some obscure IBM product from 30+ years ago
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<Ermine>
geist: 250 erminea.space
<zid>
what's a 250?
<zid>
wikipedia only has up to 226
<kof673>
it just has defines so it can easily switch between c89 "libc" if needed :D that is not normal...normal would be even worse :D
<kof673>
so those are the caps :D
<kof673>
basically, i do not assume there is a libc or headers as well :D
<kof673>
so it could be "freestanding" with needed components filled in, or "hosted" on a normal platform, or .... that is the idea anyways...
<kof673>
some things i do 7-char symbols just for fun.....again, other things i would not bother :D
<kof673>
also, even with a libc, sometimes functions are broken so a simple define lets me include a "fixed" version easily :D
<kof673>
and this also allows easily switching a malloc, for example
<kof673>
or calling a "wrapper" of whatever function for whatever reason ,etc.
<kof673>
there are better ways, but if you want to limit to c89...
<kof673>
i don't assume there is a fancy linker that can do stuff like that :D
<ring0_starr>
very forward thinking
<ring0_starr>
you could also just find&replace if you need to expand it lol
<kof673>
yes, something like that would be highly preferred for meta stuff, a real parser even
<kof673>
then it is basically just a "pre-processing stage"
<Ermine>
zid: my smtpd answered 250
<zid>
oh smtp
<zid>
Requested mail action okay, completed
<zid>
makes sense with the hELO, I dum
<kof673>
i would much like fancier stuff, but i want a ..............."basic" bootstrap basically. so build fancier stuff on top
<kof673>
shouldn't need anymore than c89 to get the basic stuff going...and asm
<kof673>
also, i might try to do stuff like "wrap" FILE * ---- so it can use the system libc version, but also with "extensions" ....
<kof673>
so need separate names....
<ring0_starr>
i have a hard enough time conceptualizing what my interfaces are going to be to start off with, nevermind abstract them on the fly
<kof673>
well that doesn't mean half of that stuff even has a skeleton.........just when in doubt i generally say "make it configurable" lol
<kof673>
mechanism, not policy lol
<kof673>
if the user chose bad options/defines that's on them lol
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<kof673>
some stuff is truly horrible -- the crit bit tree stuff i use needs 2-byte aligned addresses ...but c89 doesn't have posix_memalign() .....so even on a normal system with a libc...i might wrap free() and malloc() etc. to give me 2-byte aligned versions :D
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<kof673>
if you like at oskit, an old project, "knit" had stuff to allow function renaming/etc. but it relies on gnu binutils linker i believe.....
<kof673>
*look at *an old project completely unrelated to me
<kof673>
it is like a "make" roughly i suppose.......
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<kof673>
so something like that is perhaps cleaner...but then it needs haskell IIRC....
<kof673>
i believe it was pseudo-oo ish, that is, you define "components" and then define what code implements a component, etc. so the build stuff can decide which implementation to use a for a function, and perhaps symbols too, etc.
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<cloudowind>
all day i was thinking about ways to fetch the driver from linuxfirmware library save it from zstd and let the kernel load it , i had a chat with chatgpt about it and she said to me are you crazy youve eudev already can do that job , just create a rule and thats it ...:)
<cloudowind>
by the way this deepthink or whatever new chinese ai is all over the news , apperently nvidia has lost 1 trillion $s today
<kof673>
narrator: after looking at kof code, ring0 decided modern "complexity" was not so bad after all
<ring0_starr>
it is still bad
<ring0_starr>
like i do not believe that linux should be one operating system
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<ring0_starr>
it tries to please everybody all at the same time.. it has a development model that makes this actually feasible. but then look at the results, holy hell
<Ermine>
> like i do not believe that linux should be one operating system
<Ermine>
make another one
<Ermine>
and bob's your uncle
<Ermine>
linux doesn't try to please everyone
<Ermine>
linux pleases those who are up to doing needed stuff
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<ring0_starr>
<cloudowind> by the way this deepthink or whatever new chinese ai is all over the news , apperently nvidia has lost 1 trillion $s today
<ring0_starr>
1 trillion in market cap. I have a problem with this model of valuation, it assumes that all shares will sell at the same price but this is not true at all
<Ermine>
market cap doesn't assume all shares have the same price
<ring0_starr>
yes it does, are you just being contrarian for the sake of contrarian
<Ermine>
I just have economic education
<Ermine>
and I know what is market cap
<Ermine>
if you can't make some actual counter argument, just don't answer
<ring0_starr>
idk if i really want to talk about economics in #osdev but
<Ermine>
Don't talk about economics then. It's not me who started this talk
<Ermine>
I'm correcting obvious bullshit here
<ring0_starr>
ok, NVDA is 2.9 T market cap, with a share price of 124.13, 23.51 billion shares outstanding
<ring0_starr>
does market cap get calculated from something, or is it just an intrinsic property of the business?
* isabella
looks for the elusive tech community that's not currently discussing ai or markets
<ThinkT510>
isabella: join the sortix network
<cloudowind>
sorry my fault
<sortie>
irc.sortix.org ← does not have an AI port \o/
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<Ermine>
i guess you can't write about cpu vulns these days without making a site, a logo and a catchy name?
<ring0_starr>
they made that joke already the last time there was some openssh vuln
<the_oz>
apple centric is gonna have a marketing person behind it even if it's a brocoder
<ring0_starr>
does anybody notice the broader pattern here of this entire class of vulnerabilities
<ring0_starr>
cpus have been sufficiently optimized to the point where speculative execution is the only real way of making things even faster, because they hit the physical limitations with all the traditional methods of getting more performance out
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<ring0_starr>
but in doing so they open up this entire class of attacks. i don't know if speculative execution can be done "safely", the entire method is directly contrary to security
<nikolar>
Heat oh is that apple spectre
<ring0_starr>
it begs the question, do things really need to be faster
<nikolar>
*heat
<ring0_starr>
what is all this cpu horsepower being used for at the end of the day apart from watching cat videos
<heat>
nikolar, yep
<nikolar>
Neat
<nikolar>
ring0_starr: to run your increasingly demanding web browser obviously
<nikolar>
And browser based software
<Ermine>
what about compiling linuks kernal
<zid`>
the solution is simpe
<Ermine>
what about compiling mesa
<heat>
and run your video games and encode/decode media and compiling and serving a shitton of users and solving cancer
<zid`>
stop letting people from the internet run code on your machine
<Ermine>
what about GAMEZ
<nikolar>
Kek
<nikolar>
I mean gamez need more and more gpu
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<heat>
and cpu
<zid`>
none of those things are security concerns though heat
<Ermine>
cpu too
<ring0_starr>
they don't look any nicer than they did 10 years ago
<zid`>
spectre etc is only a problem for CLOUD PROVIDERS
<zid`>
and they can all fuck off
<nikolar>
Kek
<zid`>
we had cloud providers back when I was young
<zid`>
they were called SKIES
<zid`>
they've taken you for an absolute fool
<nikolar>
CLOUDDDD
<heat>
zid`, not saying they are
<heat>
but >do things really need to be faster
<heat>
yes.
<Ermine>
nobody expected christian preacher here
<ring0_starr>
most of the games i play are unironically from 1995-2000
<nikolar>
heat, sure but do games need to require bloody ray tracing hardware
<nikolar>
I honestly couldn't care less about ray tracing
<heat>
is there a game out there that requires ray tracing with no way to turn it off?
<nikolar>
Yeah
<zid`>
quake rtx
<nikolar>
New Indiana Jones game I think
<ring0_starr>
I vaguely recall there being this voxel octree-based engine.
<nikolar>
Ermine: there's a chart of hardware requirements
<ring0_starr>
we got yelled at last night for talking about AI and economics
<ring0_starr>
careful :/
<Ermine>
oh, indeed
<Ermine>
the latest and highest-tier card
<Ermine>
time to look for job i guess
<nikolar>
At least it doesn't require rt
<cloudowind>
yes we got
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<cloudowind>
goodays people
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<gog>
krnal
<heat>
grog bazelinga
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<ring0_starr>
ERROR: [youtube] UFeLMFUWmWo: Sign in to confirm you’re not a bot. This helps protect our community. Learn more
<ring0_starr>
well I guess there goes downloading youtube videos
<ring0_starr>
invidious is ded
<ring0_starr>
it's ALL ABOUT THE COMMUNITY, we're just trying to protect the community my man
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<Ermine>
heat: is lockdep a compile-time or runtime thing
<heat>
runtime
<zid`>
compiletime lockdep is called rust
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<gog>
lockdep cargo
<heat>
hey chat can we rewrite lockdep in rust
<vdamewood>
Let's rewrite everything in rust!
<pog>
yes
<pog>
it'll be memory safe
<pog>
all of our borrows will be checked
<Ermine>
double-checked
* vdamewood
gives gog half a fishy and gives pog half a fishy.
* pog
chomp fishy
<pog>
i'm not in the same irc channels on both clients so that's why i occasionally shift identity
<pog>
i'm so into irc i need two clients
* Ermine
gives pog a piece of cheese
* pog
is fascinated
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<heat>
i'm on a EOL'd irc client
<heat>
AMA/RCE me
<ring0_starr>
RUSSSSSSSSSSSSSSST
<ring0_starr>
if there was a C static analyzer that ran by default and did all the same things that make rust so gr8, would it be called... iron-y?
<pog>
heat: are you using hexchat?
<vdamewood>
heat: Is it open sourse?
<vdamewood>
source
<heat>
yeah hexchat
<heat>
i kind of dont want to switch IRC clients
<vdamewood>
8]Fork it.
<Ermine>
maybe you're lucky enough to not have a hidpi screeb
<vdamewood>
s/8J//
<heat>
that sounds like a terrible idea vdamewood
<vdamewood>
heat: That's because it is!
<ring0_starr>
just upgrade to Discord
<ring0_starr>
the backend is written in Rust so you know it's super secure.
<vdamewood>
Now I kind of want to fork it for funzies.
<heat>
i use discord too
<the_oz>
shitty "platform" isn't a real platform
<ring0_starr>
also I think i'm going to start taking estrogen and make up a "V-tuber" persona so i can do qt anime girl things while coding in rust
<vdamewood>
Damn real life.
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<heat>
discord switched to rust because of golang gc pauses sucking
<heat>
not RIIR cuz securiteh
<ring0_starr>
just trying to think out loud here. if i wanted to "go with the flow" of the world, what would that look like in practice
<Ermine>
after joining fdo discord i started using it more for dri-devel shitposting
<Ermine>
also MEMES
<Ermine>
(sometimes)
<ring0_starr>
if we upgrade to discord we can share 2-3 second looping .gifs of people making mildly funny faces
<ring0_starr>
think of how much better life would be
<heat>
a lot actually
<ring0_starr>
well id have to upgrade my PC
<ring0_starr>
don't have enough ram for discord
<ring0_starr>
bro... i had this idea... don't you just love web development? what if... just stay with me... what if we made the ENTIRE OS a web browser
<ring0_starr>
all the desktop appz are already javascript now
<heat>
chromeos
<ring0_starr>
this note taking app called obsidian was giving me trouble in the form of a blank white screen because it wasn't able to support my GPU and had trouble automatically updating because of some cache problem idk
<ring0_starr>
but this new tech is soo goood man
<ring0_starr>
we can talk to each other over the internet and take notes, just need 64gb of ram and the latest everything
<the_oz>
element has had blank white screen forfuckingever
<the_oz>
recurring bug
<gog>
i only have 16gb of ram
<gog>
i think
<gog>
idk how much ramsi have
<ring0_starr>
it's not enough
<gog>
ok
<heat>
you dont need to actually
<heat>
VIRTUAL MEMORY
<gog>
i have 1TB of virtual memory
<heat>
PAGEOUT ZSWAP PAGE RECLAIM
<Ermine>
how much ramsay do you have in your life
<gog>
none
<heat>
1, gordon
<gog>
it's fucking rawwwww
<heat>
sounds hot
<Ermine>
finally, some good fucking food
<heat>
oh cute onyx irssi is crashing consistently
<heat>
what if i, haha, wrote a coredumper just because of this
<ring0_starr>
don't you ever wonder what the world would look like if tech didn't get so stupid in between the 90s and today
<gog>
no
<the_oz>
it'd be retarded in a different way]
<heat>
why do people feel the need to share tech boomer opinions on #osdev
<ring0_starr>
ok have fun upgrading your ram because you can't run dicksword
<sortie>
I'm literally having issues with my laptop RAM atm :(
<the_oz>
sounds poor
<gog>
i will, and i'm enjoying my estrogen prescription too
<sortie>
Are you really an osdever if you're not debugging the exact blinking sequence of the white and amber leds
<Ermine>
fuck it i'll try to watch lina again
<heat>
noooooooo
<ring0_starr>
i think i tried watching lina once
<ring0_starr>
and i just couldn't
<ring0_starr>
how do these people get followers
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<ring0_starr>
also, you know it's fucked when a millennial gets called a boomer online because of their opinions
<Ermine>
33K people totes understand what's she's doing
<gog>
i don't disagree that the browser becoming the universal application platform sucks
<gog>
but i also don't think there was a time where it wasn't inevitable
<gog>
maybe before the web was invented, if a competing technology became the way we interact with the internet
<ring0_starr>
that would become a de facto web browser
<gog>
and it would be tempting to make it an application platform
<gog>
and we come to the same problem, where everybody wants to direct the standard
<gog>
so it's eternally a mess
<zid`>
We should just revoke eternal september
<gog>
wake me up when september ends -_-
<ring0_starr>
you'd get less of a mess if you gatekept development a bit
<Ermine>
yeah let's just cut our internet cables
<the_oz>
winderz was already first
<heat>
ah yes what computer programming needs more of, gatekeeping
<ring0_starr>
seriously, half the issue is because everything caters to people with low skill/no skill
<zid`>
correct
<zid`>
It needs a LOT more gatekeeping
<gog>
i'm already gaslighting and girlbossing
<zid`>
Clubs aren't exclusive and useful, if you let any riff-raff in
<gog>
i can't do all three
* Ermine
went offline
<ring0_starr>
there is a positive side to gatekeeping, namely maintaining standards
<Ermine>
gog: is girlsplaining a ting
<Ermine>
thing*
<gog>
maybe
<zid`>
Imagine going to your favourite football players' club bar in porto heat, and it was full of americans
<ring0_starr>
but any negative sides to anything gets abused to the maximum and becomes the dominant issue, so we can't have anything nice ever
<heat>
zid`, nightmare fuel
<the_oz>
let the gate in, everyone come on in
<heat>
Ermine, girlsplaining is when the wife starts YAPPING and you decide to ignore her
<ring0_starr>
if you zoom out the pattern is everywhere
<zid`>
What I don't understand is why women keep starting conversations with me by saying "You're not listening to me are you?"
<ring0_starr>
early adopters or late adopters of a thing are almost always better off, it's the painful middle where the critical mass of plebians take up whatever it is they enshittify
<the_oz>
>start with
<ring0_starr>
so yes, gatekeeping is probably for the best in a lot of circumstances
<ring0_starr>
get rid of the idiotic normies
<ring0_starr>
and things that are good stay good for far longer if not forever
<the_oz>
ogres are like onions
<ring0_starr>
it's literally their objective to try to make the current thing as bad as it possibly could be
<ring0_starr>
i don't know about you but i'm tired of making my decisions based upon limiting potential issues
<gog>
i'm tired of making decisions
<zid`>
I support you gog
<zid`>
women shouldn't be making decisions
<gog>
thank you
<Ermine>
XD
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<the_oz>
`
<gog>
´
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<kof673>
> and it was full of americans u.s. federal citizens are all there officially are, that already happened domestically :D
<kof673>
not arguing "gatekeeping" but that shark already jumped a long time ago :D
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<the_oz>
I don't have a garden worth having tresspassers