klange changed the topic of #osdev to: Operating System Development || Don't ask to ask---just ask! || For 3+ LoC, use a pastebin (for example https://gist.github.com/) || Stats + Old logs: http://osdev-logs.qzx.com New Logs: https://libera.irclog.whitequark.org/osdev || Visit https://wiki.osdev.org and https://forum.osdev.org || Books: https://wiki.osdev.org/Books
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<ring0_starr> grrr i had the coolest job writing firmware hax for the military and now im unemployed where the fuck do they expect me to channel my creative energies into. i have to learn how to develop things for hobby that doesn't have destructive capabilities.
<ring0_starr> im sorry im really drunk right now
<ring0_starr> i can't handle my family
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<ring0_starr> its like the world wants me to become a supervillian
<ring0_starr> ahhhhhhhhhhhhh
<ring0_starr> i need to read more about CHERI and verifiable C
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<kof673> "destructive" :/ ye olde philosophies didn't believe in death, just the first step of transformation :D > unless a grain of wheat falls into the earth and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it bears much fruit.
<kof673> <phoenix starts ...crackling/sparkling/bursts into flame>
<ring0_starr> not like this
<ring0_starr> fml
<ring0_starr> i am suposta be one of the good guys
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<kof673> i mean you are worried about liability, no longer have access to tools...why can't you keep writing destructive things :D
<fedaykin> ring0_starr: how about making money? i love making money =) try writing something to make money
<kof673> you say destruction, other people say.......letting me control the device i purchased fair and square
<kof673> this channel doesn't want people posting things though of course :D
<ring0_starr> i am at odds with my own interests
<ring0_starr> supposed to be wanting better security, but my job is to break security
<ring0_starr> dumb game of cat and mouse
<ring0_starr> i am my own worst enemy
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<ring0_starr> the people truly in control of all the devices are unworthy
<ring0_starr> untrustworthy
<ring0_starr> through network effects and legal shenanigans they stop people from owning their own technology
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<ring0_starr> i just had this interview not too long ago with a big audio company about seecure monitor hypervisors and attested boot and so on and i realized shit id be doing this work to prevent ppl from getting fucked over by that same company when they decide to delete songs off their ipad automatically
<ring0_starr> err was that a different one
<ring0_starr> they're all assholes anymore
<ring0_starr> sorry dont mean to make osdev into my personal soapbox
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<fedaykin> ring0_starr: i don't think i undersand what you are saying, what is the problem? a job is a just job, nothing to be stressed out about
<fedaykin> ring0_starr: do you have any savings? do you think you can invent a job instead of getting a job?
<ring0_starr> yeah but your work has real impact on the world.
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<ring0_starr> sorta doubt it, no
<ring0_starr> i just can't do business nonsense
<fedaykin> i see
<ring0_starr> man you gootta be making the world a better place
<fedaykin> well, you gotta lie then, because it is all business nonsense and powerpoint bullshit in the corporate world
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<fedaykin> the cuck fucking ceos gaslight us every day in corporate america
<ring0_starr> if i got that job at amazon then i would've been making robotics to replace people's jobs
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<fedaykin> the world is already a better place, it is beautiful, most of our jobs are bullshit jobs, have you read that book called bs jobs something like that?
<ring0_starr> and their warehouse ppl that stay will just sweat to death because there will be less jobs and same amount of ppl
<ring0_starr> i heard of it
<ring0_starr> but there's all this active decay and damage happening
<ring0_starr> to society because of my job
<fedaykin> it is not because of your job or you, the shit is going down the hill because the system gives people wrong incentives
<ring0_starr> yaeh i get you
<ring0_starr> but this is one thing i can focus on i guess, is not contribtuing to it
<ring0_starr> it just gets used for closed firmware and centralized control of everything
<fedaykin> but, if you ignore all that, the world is still a great place, the damage and decay will stop when shit hits the fan
<ring0_starr> unless it's open then it doesn't matter becaue you don't own it
<ring0_starr> at my first job i told people this is why open source is so important
<ring0_starr> and everyone laughed
<fedaykin> open source is the way to go, no doubt about it =)
<ring0_starr> AI is just going to be a new way of obfuscating decision making behind an un-auditable black box
<ring0_starr> -_-
<ring0_starr> open source is here for sure but it doesn't feel at all like the way we imagined it in the 1970s
<kof673> well the bs jobs thing is funny because that was the supposed "soviet" "flaw" .......wasn't supposed to happen in supposed "capitalism" :D
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<kof673> but you know, you can't just hand out free credit...........not to people anyways...who knows what they'd do......much of it is culture....
<ring0_starr> everybody's been programmed to consoom at maximum
<fedaykin> kof673: lol, but we don't have capitalism anymore =) it's all bail out and money printing shit
<ring0_starr> so they'd waste it
<kof673> i know but the image still survives, at least places i worked...
<fedaykin> kof673: what we have is something trully special =) profits are privatized and losses are socialized, and nancy pelosy making 174k a year has millions of dollars, it is all corruption and oligarchy
<fedaykin> i mean, right now we have trump and musk, and i am all for common sense and change, but people are now flying to FL to kiss the bosses ring =)
<fedaykin> flying to Mar-a-Lago to kiss the emperor's ring
<fedaykin> this is bullshit =)
<fedaykin> so, guys, take it easy, ring0_starr just lie during the interview, tell them how much you value their corporate powerpoint values =)
<fedaykin> and work on something meaningful on the sidelines
<ring0_starr> ugh that's assuming i ever get another job in this economy...
<ring0_starr> life has become very hard in recent years
<fedaykin> ring0_starr: have you applied for unemployment insurance? this economy is not that bad, just sprinkle your resume with hype words, like ai ai ai, and quantum computing is also hot right now
<fedaykin> just make sure there is enough hype in it, and you will be fine
<fedaykin> the people interviewing you will know less about the hype subject than you do
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<fedaykin> i can guarantee you that
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<sortie> supness
<Mutabah> o/
<sortie> yo Mutabah
<sortie> How are you?
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<isabella> wanna see the dumbest thing you've ever seen bash do
<isabella> strace bash -c '/bin/true; for i in {1..100}; do :; done'
<sortie> The rt_sigprocmask calls?
<isabella> yes
<sortie> That's not too bad. I'm happy to see the rest of it is entirely in-process.
<isabella> it's pretty bad lol
<sortie> I imagine the way the code is written it's probably really hard to know at the sigprocmask call site whether there actually are any child processes that could give SIGCHLD or not
<isabella> nah it's checking for dead children
<isabella> it does so at the end of every loop iteration
<isabella> any kind of loop
<isabella> recursion isn't a "kind of loop" in this context
<isabella> and to check it first blocks sigchld, then does nothing interesting, then immediately unblocks it
<isabella> i'm sorry i re read what you've written and it was basically the same
<sortie> I imagine there could be a fast path if it has never forked at all, but if it ever has forked, it's really hard to know if any unexpected children might still be around, I suppose
<sortie> Considering all the recursion and subshell stuff going on in bash
<isabella> ;-; but it's a shell, it's supposed to be good at keeping track of processes
<isabella> that's the point
<sortie> And commands that look like they're going to fork but turns out last minute to be a shell builtin
<sortie> That is what it's doing, keeping track of processes. It uses SIGCHLD to be told about asynchronous events, and to be safe, since signal handlers must be written correctly, it unblocks SIGCHLD so it only happens at a safe point
<sortie> And if bash is somehow running as pid 1, it might get unexpected children reparented
<isabella> it can just know which processes it has forked that haven't terminated yet
<isabella> it's just so hard to get good performance in bash to begin with and this is making it even harder
<isabella> like i disabled this and it made my code 3% faster
<sortie> I totally agree. Performant computational bash scripts suck
<sortie> I got one of my own too
<isabella> let's see
<isabella> you share yours i share mine
<sortie> Yeah that's not happening :)
<isabella> what
<isabella> secret bash
<sortie> Come at me with your GPL bro
<bslsk05> ​izabera/pseudo3d - a raycaster in bash (4 forks/177 stargazers)
<sortie> Mostly when you start needing that kind of performance, that's when you need a rewrite in a real lang lol
<sortie> loool raycaster in bash
<sortie> isabella you are mad I love it
<isabella> it runs at 30fps in glorious 480x372
<isabella> if you try to run a loop that does nothing 480*372 times it will take much longer than 33ms
<sortie> bash is not supposed to frames per second hahahaha I love it
<isabella> i would guess that it's the most optimised 3d thing ever written in bash by a long shot :D
<isabella> or maybe short shot since there aren't very many
<nikolar> What kind of a monster CPU does that guy have to make bash fast enough lol
<isabella> i mean it's a decent cpu but it's not being stressed very hard in that demo
<isabella> i7-13620H on a laptop
<isabella> it runs on my phone in termux
<isabella> not particularly high res, dropping a few frames here and there
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<Mutabah> sortie: Distracted and sleey enough that I forgot that I had waved :)
<sortie> Hahaha yes it is late for you isn't it :)
<Mutabah> Well, 9PM ... but I just got home from a visit to Vic, where it's pushing midnight
<sortie> :)
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<the_oz_> mornin'
<gog> meowdy
<gog> my sleep schedule is totally destroyed
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<the_oz_> 's jus' crep;uscular
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<mcrod> i haven't done this in a while
<mcrod> gog may I pet you
<gog> yes
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<heat> isabella, that is terrible, congrats
<isabella> ty!
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<heat> uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh i think im going to take lockdep from linux
<heat> it is too cool to not have
<Ermine> what's that
<heat> the lock verifying stuff
<heat> for debug
<heat> like lock inversion, deadlock, lock not held, etc
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<nikolar> heat: how do it work
<heat> idk
<heat> nor do i want to write it, seems hard work
<nikolar> how hard is it to integrate the n
<nikolar> *tehn
<nikolar> **then
<nikolar> word hard
<heat> i assume a little but not super hard
<heat> they used to have a userspace liblockdep in the kernel sources that wrapped some headers and things Just Worked
<nikolar> neat
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<froggey> I did that a long time ago, wasn't too hard to port
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<the_oz_> this is talking about how to instantiate cheap object classes
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<the_oz_> like sure it's about lock testing but really this is meta
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* mcrod pets gog
* karenw pets mcrod
* mcrod prr
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