klange changed the topic of #osdev to: Operating System Development || Don't ask to ask---just ask! || For 3+ LoC, use a pastebin (for example https://gist.github.com/) || Stats + Old logs: http://osdev-logs.qzx.com New Logs: https://libera.irclog.whitequark.org/osdev || Visit https://wiki.osdev.org and https://forum.osdev.org || Books: https://wiki.osdev.org/Books
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<PapaFrog> I know this is probably a small victory, but: https://i.imgur.com/cyXihVG.png
<bslsk05> ​i.imgur.com <no title>
<zid> pretty rad
<geist> awesome!
<Mutabah> Every victory counts
<Mutabah> and hearing about them brings back memories
<geist> yeah exatly, i was just saying i loved those early breakthroughs
<zid> There's potentially a fuck load of work behind that
<zid> depending on how those processes came to exist
<PapaFrog> That is MBR -> Protected mode -> Long mode -> Elf loader -> multitasking with syscall/sysret.
<geist> every time i hear any song off Kid A I think back of early osdev hackery
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<Mutabah> I see those and I want to get back to that level of OSDev, but then I remember that my projects are well past that and into the API design stage
<PapaFrog> I guess I will make a filesystem next.
<zid> how did you load your processes then, out of interest?
<zid> I did effectively that ^ but in a really dumb way by passing them in as grub modules :D
<geist> maybe build a little shell so yuo can interact with it a bit
<PapaFrog> They are just functions loaded run with user-mode CS and SS.
<zid> ahh
<zid> The hacks to bypass "I don't have a thing I will have yet" are always fun to hear
<geist> might be fun to build a little loader without even using a FS
<geist> just have some ELF binaries or whatnot loaded as .data payloads into the kernel
<PapaFrog> Yeah.. i could do that.. I had to do that with fonts when I was fooling with EFI.
<heat> are you sleeping for like, rand() % 1000 ms?
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<PapaFrog> heat: Yes.. with a LCG.
<heat> ah, cool stuff :)
<geist> heat: hmm, you said before it was virtio-gpu-vga?
<heat> now make them block
<geist> playing with some of the new graphics devices you mentioned the other day (new to me at least)
<heat> i mentioned it a couple of hours ago :p
<heat> wdym "you said before it was virtio-gpu-vga?"? -ENOPARSE
<geist> i only say that because on my qemu it dpesn't say that's a valid device
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<geist> so really i'm asking for clarification. is it virtio-gpu-vga?
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<heat> oh its virtio-vga apparently
<geist> ah yes. okay
<geist> was just plahing with ramfb, butinteresting that linux doesn't detect that
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<heat> yeah because it sees it as efifb or vesafb or whatever
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<geist> so must not be generically described, and/or linux has no driver for it
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<heat> OVMF supports it with a GOP driver and everything, seabios probably does too
<geist> yeah
<geist> hmm, virtio-vga is not a valid name... i wonder if it's x86 specific...
<geist> ah yes. eh, not that useful to me then
<heat> it doesn't work for aarch64 because of the aforementioned problems, if thats what you mean
<geist> well, doesn't work as in it doesn't even accept it as an option
<heat> yep
<heat> you'd experience corruption
<geist> riscv does, so that's nice
<geist> heh wow, the framebuffer is mapped waaaaaaay high on this qemu machine
<geist> Memory at 380800004000
<heat> i can't wait for the next qemu gpu device that makes me wonder why it was even added in the first place
<heat> cirrus, that ati thing, bga, qxl, virtio and ramfb
<geist> i haven't looked for docs for it but i assume it's basically a standard virtio-gpu with an extra feature bit for a fixed framebuffer or something?
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<heat> maybe
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<heat> virtio is really confusing and quite honestly poorly documented in the spec
<heat> virtio-gpu i mean
<geist> would certainly be nice.i have a driver for virtio-gpu, but it forces you to manually implement a scanout every time you want to update
<geist> seems like all it'd need is some way to say 'take this buffer and turn it into a forever scanout'
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<geist> also reminds me i need to finally add pci support to my virtio layer
<geist> it only does virtio-mmio since that's where i needed it first (arm, no pci)
<heat> i'm lacking the exact opposite :)
<geist> yah it's not a big deal but requires some refactoring
<heat> i have some dt PCI code in some git stash somewhere that i should really push into a branch, including bus configuration and proper enumeration
<heat> i don't trust it to not fuck up on more commodity PC hardware though
<geist> yah i added just enough to pick it out enough to bootstrap things
<geist> but then there's no DT on PC hardware so everyone wins
<geist> dangit everytime Everlong comes on I have to stop and rock out
<geist> what a song
<heat> linux through dark magic and nerd tears can fully reconfigure your whole PCIe hierarchy if it thinks it's wrong
<heat> say your BARs fall outside of the pcie memory space
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<immibis> wouldn't having to tell the device every time you want to update the frame make a lot of sense for a virtual device?
<immibis> you don't want it to deploy one of the awful systems that console emulators use to detect when you changed important memory, like marking it read-only and emulating every write instruction
<geist> sure, it makes some sense. it's still annoying though
<geist> you have to put together a whole virtio transaction every time
<geist> 'here, blit this object to the scanout'
<geist> but you're right, it's probably more efficient in the end. espeically if you just have some static framebuffer console that does nothing like 99.9% of the time
<geist> assuming the guest os is of course wired up to know when to flush or not
<zid> I wish a single of the devices gave vblank messages
<zid> even if it wasn't *meant* for general usage
<zid> It'd be nice to have like, a passthrough device for opengl with vsync
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<PapaFrog> If a PIE executable has no relocations, I can just load it at a arbitrary address and call the _start?
<Mutabah> should be able to
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<geist> so re: the virtio-gpu, found it in the spec, it's just a little blurb
<geist> basically says BAR 1 will have a VGA framebuffer and the first time you create a virtio-gpu scanout it blows it away
<geist> pretty straightforward
<zid> I looked at virtio-gpu but it seemed overly complicated compared to just.. not using it
<zid> but I assume it makes it work in vmware as well as qemu, rather than using one of qemus' much simpler ones
<geist> yah and also its present on !x86 machines
<zid> qemu-bochs or whatever that one is is very nice, it's just 'write magic numbers to tell it the size of the display and then we'll give you back an address' or whatever the simplest system you can think of is
<zid> the pci-e stuff is just an abstraction over that, that you can do away with
<zid> I think virtio-gpu makes you deal with the device caps thing too? The one you need co-routines to deal with nicely, bleh
<geist> yah in general
<geist> it requires you send messages to and fromt it to create new surfaces and query the capability
<geist> it does have the ability to create multiple windows which is kinda neat
<zid> does any of the software implementing virto-gpu actually.. support that?
<zid> I can't imagine qemu doing so
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<zid> its output always seemed very rigid and formal
<geist> good question
<zid> I assume it was for if you wanted to like, do a wine via virt
<zid> and have emulated 'windows'
<zid> like an X setup but with qemu acting as the server
<zid> wsl works like it even
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<FireFly> 17
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<zid> what a coincidence, /win 17 is the combination to my luggage
<FireFly> :p
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<vai> re
<FireFly> tervetuloa
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<zid> gloggy-moggy
<gog> ziddles
<kazinsal> gogchamp
<gog> kazzy
<kazinsal> nya~
* kazinsal pets gog
<zid> Great googgily moogily I'm late for my nap
<kazinsal> I've got a standup at 9:30 and a union briefing at 10, and it's 2:22, so I'm two bottles of soju deep
<gog> one of our providers glitched out yesterday and we had so many unhidden products today that the app crashes when i try to see the summary
<gog> that's fun
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<kazinsal> I'm real glad I just work on mostly on prem vmware crud now
<kazinsal> with a few doses of AWS
<gog> i overdose on aws daily and i feel like dying
<kazinsal> we're just starting to dive into it
<kazinsal> starting with VCP
<kazinsal> moved some test SQL crap up in yesterday, with the goal of putting some prod beancounter stuff in this weekend
<kazinsal> which is a nice easy six hours of double OT for doing nothing
<gog> nice
<kazinsal> guess it's new guitar time in the near future
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<gog> it's new gog time
<gog> better get a gog to keep and headpat
<zid> is it gog time or full on gog o'clock?
<gog> yes
<zid> oh no
<zid> I haven't battened down any of my hatches
<kazinsal> incoming gogpocalypse
<kazinsal> prepare for gogmageddon
<gog> armagogddon
<gog> agogcalypse
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