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* cloudowind
is getting on dbus
<klys>
foghorn.ogg
<cloudowind>
do you think i should approach to the dbus as a service where other services will be depending on and start is as a service on runlevel 3 or let the Pam run the daemon and a little sh that will rpeperare env. vars or maybe when user logs in
<klys>
locally I've recompiled gtk3 to let me run stuff without dbus, in a chroot.
<cloudowind>
hm i need dbus , cant get anywhere withouth a bus:) how are you doing anyway
<klys>
am well thank you
<klys>
I have pipewire installed, and sometimes I have to fix my audio and it gets impossible. sometimes only root can see the device even though no one has anything open in /dev/snd
<klys>
what I try to do is let root run pipewire with # systemctl --user start pipewire; and direct all output to an rtp port where user is running pipewire.
<klys>
still this is suboptimal because occasionally it crashes and I have to fight it until win or lose. except I won't reboot.
<cloudowind>
:)
<klys>
so I see how dbus is started by the first user to login to the system, just I don't like that because only one user is likely to have audio in a multiseat configuration
<cloudowind>
wow
<cloudowind>
that was quite informative thank you
<cloudowind>
iwd desperetly wants it , otherwise i was gonna leave it before gtk
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<heat>
kernel up
<sortie>
init up
<heat>
no never
<heat>
nuh uh
<zid>
login:
<heat>
im going to wrap up my receive window work today and start working on congestion control
<sortie>
Password (will not echo):
<heat>
it's a little annoying how the tcp receive window works because thats just not how receive buffer management has worked ever since the first fucking BSD network stack
<sortie>
heat@osdev ~ $
<heat>
BSD seems to adopt some weird adhoc idea wrt the receive window, and linux ofc has layers of buffer autotuning and shit
<heat>
sortie: ls /proc
<sortie>
BSD: command not found
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<heat>
also i slowly realize receive is really tricky to spell and i hate it
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<pog>
hunter2
<heat>
the fraud pog speaks when gog joins
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<gog>
who
<heat>
pog
<zid>
gog is actually pog's sock-puppet
<zid>
pog is going to say something wild, then gog is going to say "yea, I fully agree"
<sortie>
i agree with zid
<the_oz>
i agree with zid
<zid>
<pog> bsd is good actually
<sortie>
glory to bsd
<pog>
bsd _is_ good actually
<heat>
GLORY TO ZID
<sortie>
say the magic words about bsd heat
<heat>
bsd sucks!
<sortie>
IMPOSTER
<sortie>
we the united gog must act
<heat>
im sus
<zid>
we are legion
<heat>
i actually find bsd code really hard to read
<heat>
i would like to know it better, but its just way too hard
<heat>
after a decade of gnu linux brainrot
<Ermine>
just go and read dns_parse
<Ermine>
it's like tequila: after it everything is tasty
<heat>
yeah but that's like 30 lines
<heat>
not 300k
<heat>
it's not that BSD is obfuscated musl-style, but it's written in a style that's distinctly alien to me
<sortie>
heat: Definitely in the older parts of BSD
<sortie>
Old style Unix code looks so weird and primitive today
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<ring0_starr>
heat: can you show examples of what you mean...?
<ring0_starr>
I am not going to be BSD's white knight but going through it I hadn't noticed anything too horrible
<ring0_starr>
like the gnarliest code would be the oldest, right? so maybe something on FreeBSD like sys/ufs/ffs/? I would add more vertical spacing but I mean.....
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<ring0_starr>
and you know what
<ring0_starr>
the hell to that idea that we need to adapt our OS design to the hardware rather than vice versa. in the 1990s do you know how much microsoft cock everybody gagged on? Cyrix chips had "designed for windows 95" stamped on them
<ring0_starr>
if you focus on a clean, secure design and it's successful, HW manufacturers will start to optimize for it
<ring0_starr>
maybe tanenbaum was right
<gog>
topped by microsoft
<zid>
I bottomed for linux
<ring0_starr>
why can't Intel figure out a way to make context switching faster
<ring0_starr>
they have their cache side channel attack problems because of their microarchitecture, but most ARM cores don't have this problem
<ring0_starr>
I don't see any MIPS having this problem
<ring0_starr>
like what if there was "cache window renaming" like register renaming
<ring0_starr>
you can just swap around hw cache tags and save the need to flush upon invalidation, just rename
<Jari-->
yo
<ring0_starr>
what if there was a per-task option to make some spectre/meltdown mitigations opt-in to untrusted processes? sort of like how Windows has its DEPPolicy option in PE.
<gog>
that'd be nice
<gog>
i'd prefer the crumb of extra performance when running games
<gog>
but maybe a game is exactly what i don't want to allow to bypass the mitigations
<gog>
idk
<gog>
idk what it even matters because somebody is spying with the silicon backdoor in my wifi adapter anyway
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<zid>
gog: silicone backdoors cost a lot of money usually
<Ermine>
govts prefer pegausus and stuff usually
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<gog>
zid: how much
<zid>
gog: Gotta buy the mould compound, a bucket to sit in, etc, it adds up
<gog>
HOW MUCH
<zid>
There's kits on amazon
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<heat>
ring0_starr, idk boss, it's the little details
<heat>
like struct naming, variable naming, the way the code is structured
<heat>
err = kfunc(); if (err) vs if (err < 0)
<heat>
sometimes return(0); is pretty weird
<zid>
imagine bracketing a 0
<zid>
and making return look like a function
<zid>
surely there can't be any codebase THAT insane
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<nikolar>
Whoever though that making return look like a function was a good idea
<nortti>
same ppl as making sizeof look like one?
<nikolar>
Sure
<nortti>
or control structures for that matter
<nikolar>
But at least you can think of sizeof as a function in some way (it returns a value)
<nikolar>
How are returns and ifs functions
<zid>
I use if functions, but mainly because I never noticed I was doing it :p
<zid>
if ( just looks a bit breezy
<nortti>
hm, it's a bit funny how rust makes ifs not look like functions but you can have them return values
<nikolar>
Lol yeah
<nikolar>
zid, a little bit of breeze never hurt anyone
<zid>
Plus it's a bit of a false dichotomy, the ( on the if is mandatory
<zid>
return never needs a (
<nikolar>
True
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<cloudowind>
why do i feel like chatgpt learn more from us than we learn from it :) goodays osdev people
<kof673>
*brutal narrator: this is in fact only a very simplistic, simpleton, rudimentary, juvenile, immature, shell of a shell syntax
<kof673>
narrator: its not that hard, that was easy
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<heat>
i stan sizeof() but not return()
<Ermine>
return() sucks
<zid>
I 'stan' neither because not silly
<nikolar>
it's sizeof and return
<nikolar>
neither is a function heat
<heat>
idc
<heat>
sizeof works like a function thus sizeof()
<heat>
i'm not doing sizeof ()
<zid>
it does not work like a function
<zid>
it works like a unary operator
<heat>
and if you're talking about 'sizeof var', if you get a venn diagram on "parenthesis-less sizeof" and "musl contributors", it'll look more or less like a circle
<zid>
same way you might want to write -(a+b) to force a certain parse, you *may* use brackets
<heat>
nope, wrong, sizeof int does not work
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<heat>
it's optional in the sense that if you sniff glue you might go sizeof var just to "haha look it's valid C!!!!" people
<heat>
but hoomans like consistency
<zid>
same logic for return (0);
<zid>
You might sniff glue and go "return 0" just to "haha look it's valid C!!!"
<heat>
sizeof without () doesn't work for 80% of uses
<heat>
return without () works for 100% of uses unless i'm missing any weird special case
<zid>
so where's your rubicon?
<zid>
24%? 50%?
<heat>
my what
<zid>
Where do you cross the line
<zid>
100% means it's fine to elide them for return, 20% is too little
<zid>
how many % do we need?
<heat>
probably 100 because consistency is nice
<zid>
what about -a?
<zid>
vs -(a)
<zid>
we always do -(a)? or do we do -a and -(a) as appropriate? or do we measure the % and make a judgement?
<heat>
i completely disagree that the two are comparable because sizeof literally does not work, just does not work with types unless you (), because of parsing ambiguities
<heat>
you dont get the wrong result, it just dies
<heat>
sizeof not requiring () in C is a weird wart specifically because it opens up a bunch of ambiguities when it comes to types, so they just said "fuck it" and added forced () there, to save their own compiler-writing asses
<zid>
what
<zid>
so we agreed it was percentage based, I asked you the percentage, and I got a paragraph about parsers
<heat>
i dont think it's necessarily percentage based, i think forcing a () for sizeof makes sense because it hides a wart in C's syntax, forcing a () for return or -a doesn't do anything of note
<heat>
a ()'d sizeof makes the behavior consistent and makes type-sizeof and var-sizeof consistent, and to me that matters
<heat>
meanwhile -(a+b) vs -a+b is different and has actual semantic meaning and hopefully painfully obvious to anyone that passed like 5th grade math
<ring0_starr>
they could enforce sizeof parens in a new standard.
<ring0_starr>
they've been going backwards, i just noticed recently that 0xeeeeeeee-*foo is invalid
<ring0_starr>
thanks to C99 float suffix rules
<kof673>
narrator: you missed a memory leak kof
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<nikolar>
sizeof (x) for types, sizeof x for expressions
<nikolar>
i am pretty sure functions don't work like that
<nikolar>
there is no situation where you can just omit parens