klange changed the topic of #osdev to: Operating System Development || Don't ask to ask---just ask! || For 3+ LoC, use a pastebin (for example https://gist.github.com/) || Stats + Old logs: http://osdev-logs.qzx.com New Logs: https://libera.irclog.whitequark.org/osdev || Visit https://wiki.osdev.org and https://forum.osdev.org || Books: https://wiki.osdev.org/Books
<sdomi> heat: extremely serenityos-brained, i like it
<nikolar> heat: i am @ing you
<nikolar> suck it
chiselfu1e has joined #osdev
dysthesis has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
chiselfuse has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
<heat> dont @ me never works
<heat> :((
Lucretia has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
goliath has joined #osdev
Fingel has joined #osdev
<nikolar> heat: rip
Fingel has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
Fingel has joined #osdev
<pog> hi
<heat> pog!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<childlikempress> @heat gog
heat has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
monkeyPlus has joined #osdev
<monkeyPlus> hey. I disabled my one key, and now i want to enable it, but the keycode is one_zero
<monkeyPlus> how do i enable it
<monkeyPlus> ten that is
<Mutabah> disabled how?
<monkeyPlus> xmodmap
<Mutabah> That sounds like a linux problem
goliath has quit [Quit: SIGSEGV]
<Mutabah> Although, here's an idea - make a shell script, and use vim's `Ctrl-A` key combo to increment the number
<nikolar> Or ssh into the machine and fix it
Burgundy has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
frytaped has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
dysthesis has joined #osdev
foxsecu has quit [Quit: ZNC 1.9.1 - https://znc.in]
foxsecu has joined #osdev
msv has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
msv has joined #osdev
dysthesis has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<cloudowind> xmodmap again?or just leave x , because xmodset it not setting permanent as far as i know
<cloudowind> i finnaly sorted my init , now doesnt matter if real hardware or qemu , it does boot perfectly yay
monkeyPlus has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
hwpplayer1 has joined #osdev
netbsduser has joined #osdev
netbsduser has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
andreas303 has quit [Quit: fBNC - https://bnc4free.com]
hwpplayer1 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
hwpplayer1 has joined #osdev
hwpplayer1 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
hwpplayer1 has joined #osdev
andreas303 has joined #osdev
runxiyu is now known as am_i_a_tiger
vin has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.8]
hwpplayer1 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
Fingel has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
FreeFull has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
karenw has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
Lucretia has joined #osdev
GeDaMo has joined #osdev
hwpplayer1 has joined #osdev
vdamewood has quit [Quit: Life beckons]
MrBonkers has quit [Quit: ZNC 1.8.2+deb2ubuntu0.1 - https://znc.in]
gmodena has joined #osdev
hwpplayer1 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
MrBonkers has joined #osdev
hwpplayer1 has joined #osdev
pog has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
raykv423 has joined #osdev
the_oz has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
hwpplayer1 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
the_oz has joined #osdev
Left_Turn has joined #osdev
heat has joined #osdev
heat has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
heat has joined #osdev
the_oz_ has joined #osdev
agent314 has joined #osdev
heat_ has joined #osdev
the_oz has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
heat has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
Turn_Left has joined #osdev
Left_Turn has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
Left_Turn has joined #osdev
Turn_Left has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
MiningMarsh has quit [Quit: ZNC 1.9.1 - https://znc.in]
Left_Turn has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
Left_Turn has joined #osdev
MiningMarsh has joined #osdev
MiningMarsh has quit [Client Quit]
MiningMarsh has joined #osdev
goliath has joined #osdev
pog has joined #osdev
MiningMarsh has quit [Quit: ZNC 1.9.1 - https://znc.in]
MiningMarsh has joined #osdev
emntn has quit [Quit: WeeChat 4.4.2]
Burgundy has joined #osdev
FreeFull has joined #osdev
emntn has joined #osdev
hwpplayer1 has joined #osdev
Turn_Left has joined #osdev
Left_Turn has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
emilrwx has joined #osdev
emntn has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
<bslsk05> ​learn.microsoft.com: ioringapi - Win32 apps | Microsoft Learn
<heat_> as i said multiple times, operating systems development is a big homework copying exercise
raykv423 has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
<nikolar> heat_: just admit that microsoft sucks
<nikolar> they literally made a builtin linux vm just to stop people from even trying linux
<heat_> people using wsl2 were not going to try linux
hwpplayer1 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<nikolar> i don't agree
<heat_> wsl2 is probably a replacement for VM users
<zid> They went into linux because they were getting eaten in datacenters, and wanted to lock people into "Linux+"
<zid> which was linux but also DX12
<heat_> _a lot_ of people have linux on a VM and dont want to use linux full-time
<heat_> like zid here
<zid> so that they could get big gpu farms running windows underneath
<zid> I have done, heat, for years
<zid> I'm just older than your socks
<heat_> my socks aren't super old
<nikolar> that's what zid said, heat, pay attention
hwpplayer1 has joined #osdev
<heat_> if you have old socks that's pretty worrying
<heat_> or you found a *great* pair of socks
<heat_> like all time top 10 socks
<heat_> in any case i dont really think wsl2 is for the datacenter anyway
<heat_> if you have to pick between linux or linux in a vm, the choice is pretty obvious
<nikolar> linux, duh
<zid> They were trying to go for "linux in a vm is BETTEr actually, because you get dx12 via our balloon driver"
<zid> "You can use dx12 on EVERY platform then! Portability!"
<heat_> pretty sure you don't get dx12
<nikolar> every platform being windows and linux running on windows via vm
<heat_> you get opengl or vulkan over dx12
<bslsk05> ​www.phoronix.com: Microsoft Announces Direct3D 12 For Linux / WSL2 - Phoronix
<zid> "This is the real and full D3D12 API, no imitations, pretender or reimplementation here… this is the real deal. libd3d12.so is compiled from the same source code as d3d12.dll on Windows but for a Linux target."
<zid> they even dropped the balloon on lkml
<zid> and got told to fuck off
<nikolar> so you can use DWORD even in linux
<nikolar> nice
<nikolar> also, zid, that's an approriate response kek
<heat_> ew
<heat_> oh cool thing btw: ntsync ended up being merged
<nikolar> heat_: which part is ew
<heat_> both D3D12 and DWORD
<nikolar> nice
<zid> "That never happened" *20 seconds later* "Actually it was merged"
<nikolar> lol
<heat_> hm? ntsync is a totally different thing
<heat_> for wine acceleration
<zid> ah is that WaitForMultipleObjectsEx but linux?
<heat_> yeah
<Ermine> when linux will copy its homework on desktop stuff from windows
<zid> it's called systemd
<Ermine> not that part
<heat_> systemd is macos
<Ermine> ^
<Ermine> idk actually how to write services in windows
<bslsk05> ​www.microsoft.com: Microsoft Loves Linux - Microsoft Windows Server Blog
<kof673> that is a quote, not me
<kof673> the bsd joke was bsd people like unix, linux hates ms, so of course they would fall in love :D
<heat_> windows desktop on linux would never work
<heat_> because it's not a crummy xorg setup nor a hacked up i3
<heat_> when the desktop people take away your tcp-socket-based desktop remote over the interwebz built on 40 year old software, it's fascism
<nikolar> no, windows desktop on linux would never work windows desktop sucks :P
<kof673> there was lindows a long time ago, and even a (superficial appearance only) icewm "skin" and such... :D
<heat_> "windows desktop sucks" -- guy that needs to restart pulseaudio from time to time because it randomly crashes
<kof673> http://web.archive.org/web/20010522070359/http://www.mslinux.org/ this looks like an ancient joke page :D
<bslsk05> ​web.archive.org: Microsoft Linux - the premier linux distro
<Ermine> heat_: there's some progress, i don't need to restart pipewire now! just manually reconnect bluetooth headset from time to time
<nikolar> heat_: i haven't restarted pulseaudio basically ever
<nikolar> unless i've specifically messed with it
* Ermine ticks yotld off his osdev bingo card
m3a has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
<nikolar> Ermine: i don't think this counts
<isabella> /j #lobsters
<isabella> ugh
<isabella> sorry
<Ermine> heat_: what's hacked up about i3 actually
<nikolar> the fact that it's not kde, if you ask heat
<Ermine> i ask heat, not you
<heat_> it fucking sucks
<nikolar> told you
<Ermine> why
<heat_> typical minimalist garbage
<Ermine> let's put it like this: are you talking about the concept of tiling wm
<Ermine> or implementation
<heat_> 40% of the whole project is written in perl
<heat_> that's how you know it's minimal and traditional and good shit
<Ermine> not minimalist in my book
<nikolar> heat_: would you prefer dwm hten
<nikolar> *then
<Ermine> also i think perl stuff isn't the part of the window manager itself
edr has joined #osdev
<heat_> >dwm is a minimalist dynamic window manager for the X Window System developed by Suckless
<nikolar> yes
<Ermine> well, i'm happy though that you don't oppose the concept
<nikolar> no perl in sight
<bslsk05> ​www.youtube.com: - YouTube
<Ermine> sway has no perl
<heat_> i think tiling wms are largely unusable for normal people
<Ermine> indeed
<nikolar> who here is a normal person though
<Ermine> though i took the effort of learning how to use it
<Ermine> Nerdy? Yes. Reasonable? Also yes.
<heat_> im not quite normal but i do use normal software
<Ermine> though qemu feels better in floating wms/des
hwpplayer1 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
<Ermine> (though there's a guy in phoronix who hates tiling stuff, and i have no explanation except they were bullied by tiling wm users in their childhood)
<heat_> tiling wm users and bullies is mutually exclusive
<Ermine> as i said, there's no other explanation
<heat_> the only tiling wm i stan is xmonad
Left_Turn has joined #osdev
fedaykin has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
<nikolar> ah, haskell, very minimal
fedaykin has joined #osdev
m3a has joined #osdev
<heat_> haskell is not minimal but peak mancave at mom's house
<heat_> OR math phd
Turn_Left has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
<GeDaMo> How do you feel about the ratpoison WM? :P
<Ermine> heat_: start with category theory
hanemile has quit [Killed (lithium.libera.chat (Nickname regained by services))]
hanemile_ has joined #osdev
<kof673> i never bothered to try tiling ,it seemed like dvorak or esperanto, if i learned it, would be a pain in other env.
<kof673> i am not against that, but in that case...why not go all out and not even worry about compatability at all :D
<kof673> if there was a distro that specifically used programs that were designed for keyboard use, maybe i would bother
<kof673> does this mean with ai there will be a resurge in voice command interfaces? that was a thing in the 90s, not sure how popular...
hanemile_ is now known as hanemile
<Ermine> i had some problems with plasma after using sway first, but now I adapt fine
<Ermine> on other topics, now I believe that windows is the only os that supports (or supported) acpi on armv7
hwpplayer1 has joined #osdev
<kof673> i almost forgot to tell heat, there is proof of bsd ""Escape Clause" is episode six of the American television anthology series The Twilight Zone." the devil character stamps the paperwork with a nice trident :D looks like a triple sagittarius, would make a nice logo :D
Lucretia has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
Lucretia has joined #osdev
hwpplayer1 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
hanemile has quit [Killed (lithium.libera.chat (Nickname regained by services))]
hanemile_ has joined #osdev
hanemile_ is now known as hanemile
hwpplayer1 has joined #osdev
nur has joined #osdev
<heat_> Ermine, why wouldn't linux?
toadmecca has joined #osdev
frytaped has joined #osdev
<Ermine> heat_: it doesn't seem to support, probably due to the lack of interest
<heat_> what armv7 acpi is there?
<Ermine> lumias
bauen1 has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
toadmecca has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com]
hwpplayer1 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
xenos1984 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
xenos1984 has joined #osdev
xenos1984 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
xenos1984 has joined #osdev
heat has joined #osdev
heat_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
Dead_Bush_Sanpa1 has joined #osdev
Fingel has joined #osdev
Dead_Bush_Sanpai has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
Dead_Bush_Sanpa1 is now known as Dead_Bush_Sanpai
hwpplayer1 has joined #osdev
<heat> Ermine, heh, interesting
<heat> if i were to guess, you might be able to get a device tree for those ezpz
bauen1 has joined #osdev
<nikolar> Port onyx
<Ermine> no, phones are way too weird for the first port
<nikolar> Lol fair enough
<heat> first port?
<Ermine> heat: armv7, it's 32-bit, and you have aarch64 only
<heat> i had arm64 code fwiw, never got merged (not stable or perfect enough) and things changed a lot since then
<heat> yeah
<heat> onyx is not 32-bit ready
<Ermine> and phones are not the best devices for debugging
<heat> i suspect it wouldn't be super hard to onyx32 if you forget the highmem stuff
<heat> the big problem to tackle would be ABI and off_t
<Ermine> the screen is small, no keyboard, no ethernet
<heat> i've thought about giving 32-bit x86 a shot just cuz
<heat> an exercise in portability
<heat> like, onyx uses off_t and size_t pretty interchangeably, which is problematic for filesystem/IO
<heat> ideally i'd use loff_t which would be Just Big Enough for all IO purposes
<heat> file sizes would also need to be loff_t, not size_t
<heat> then you'd need to deal with syscall ABI, the whole read vs read64 crazyness, oh and time32 vs time64
divine has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
<Ermine> is it how it goes in linux?
<Ermine> read32 and read64
xenos1984 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
<nikolar> There's a bunch of macro shenanigans for compatibility in Linux
<nikolar> Especially for time related stuff
<heat> yes that macro part is horrible and confusing
<nikolar> But it's kind of necessary
<heat> but linux even has SYS_read and SYS_read64 and that shit
<nikolar> Because we don't break user space
<heat> (actually might not have read64, but pread64 and llseek and all that it definitely does)
<heat> then with time64 they added even more syscalls
<nikolar> I assume you'd have just read64
<nikolar> And work around it
<nikolar> On 32 bit
<heat> possibly
<heat> it's a problem i barely thought of
<nikolar> I'm sure we won't need read128 :P
<heat> you'd be wrong
<heat> there have been real discussions on making linux 128-bit ready
<heat> (actually yeah read64 does not exist, size_t is always native-word sized, and it doesn't have a seek)
<sortie> Sortix is actually fairly 128-bit ready though not quite entirely, I'm sure I made some assumptions here and there that needs adjustment
xenos1984 has joined #osdev
<nikolar> heat: what for
<Ermine> so it all boils down to off_t and time_t
hwpplayer1 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<heat> nikolar, 128-bit hardware is not that far away
<heat> 128-bit file sizes even less so
<nikolar> I highly doubt that it's not that far away
<heat> you'd be wrong
<Ermine> we're past second half of 2020s actually
<heat> commodity 64-bit hardware is like 30 or 35 years old
<heat> enterprise usually wants it a good bit sooner, and you want to get things ready even sooner than that
<Ermine> now, what about 256 bit hardware
hwpplayer1 has joined #osdev
<heat> Ermine, pretty much, though onyx rarely uses time_t
<nikolar> Is there a single system that requires more than 1<<64 bytes of ram
<heat> not yet
<nikolar> Because there's basically no other benefit to moving to 128 bit
<nikolar> And there are A LOT of downsides
<heat> what downsides?
<bslsk05> ​lwn.net: The road to Zettalinux [LWN.net]
<Ermine> when you get a system requiring more than 1<<64 bytes of ram, you want a 128-bit cpu available
<heat> we talked this through on IRC with willy and yeah 128 bit hardware may not be that far away
<heat> there's a huge problem with regards to C types but it is what it is
<mcrod> hi
<nikolar> Oi
<mcrod> I am going through TAOCP
<mcrod> and I have to tell you
<mcrod> my brain is absolutely fried beyond recognition
<mcrod> wtf did that send twice?
xenos1984 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
<nikolar> What's a TAOCP
xenos1984 has joined #osdev
_whitelogger has joined #osdev
netbsduser has joined #osdev
hwpplayer1 has quit [Quit: brb]
hwpplayer1 has joined #osdev
cloudowind has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
hwpplayer1 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<Ermine> C's non-fixed size types seems to be the thing which is consensually a mistake so everyone has those sizes fixed now
cloudowind has joined #osdev
<sortie> Who else is literally fighting an army of spambots attacking their OS? :D:
<Ermine> does stress-ng count?
<Ermine> or will-it-scale
hwpplayer1 has joined #osdev
<sortie> My self-hosted IRC network is actually holding back the spam using DNS blocklists
<Ermine> also, welcome to the world where you need your network stack secure
<sortie> This isn't even new :)
<sortie> But it's definitely a lesson worth sharing with everyone, to be extra safe and careful when implementing networking
<sortie> Anything remote facing
<sortie> And plan for people sending actively abusive shit because they will
<Ermine> now get ready to massive ddos attacks like those handled by cloudflare
<sortie> I have gigabit connectivity
<sortie> One billion spambots served
<sortie> (at one bit per second? they're gonna have a bad time)
Arthuria has joined #osdev
<cloudowind> if we didnt have to hide anything from anyone and if everything can be visible to everyone we wouldnt need to hide or protect anything , its only human , bears or camels do not try to hack
* cloudowind says cloudowind and dissappers
<sortie> what the hell was that blowing through the clouds and wind
<sortie> did anyone else experience that
hwpplayer1 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
Arthuria has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
<pog> no, you're crazy
* pog whispers "gatekeep gaslight girlboss"
Arthuria has joined #osdev
Arthuria has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
<mcrod> pog may i gog you
<pog> that's inappropriate sir
<pog> do it
GeDaMo has quit [Quit: 0wt 0f v0w3ls.]
cloudowind has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
Arthuria has joined #osdev
* mcrod gogs pog
* pog gogs
<mcrod> hot
Arthuria has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
<childlikempress> mew
<pog> mew
<nikolar> pew
Arthuria has joined #osdev
Arthuria has quit [Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by Guest684531))]
Arthuria has joined #osdev
Arthuria has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
szatku has joined #osdev
<szatku> Hi. I'm writting second stage x86 bootloader for FAT12. I have some problem with jumping after going to unreal mode (I do some experiments). https://gist.github.com/SzateX/eba949e7480a40b80009bd4232c8d27a#file-second_stage-asm-L606. When the bootloader reach the jmp load_kernel, there is a crash of QEMU with: \qemu-system-i386.exe: Trying to
<szatku> execute code outside RAM or ROM at 0x3167f016. I tried some things like disabling some code and put only jumping to unreal mode. And the weridness is, because this code is rewritten code of the same bootloader (but written in C and ASM stub - compiled w Clang - and there it works, but here don't).
<bslsk05> ​gist.github.com: second_stage.asm · GitHub
heat has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
heat has joined #osdev
<pog> how are you compiling it
<ring0_starr> if you're able to crash qemu, that should be the locus of your attention.
<ring0_starr> never mind the bootloader.
<pog> 3167f016 is an interesting value for an address
Arthuria has joined #osdev
<ring0_starr> ascii string fragment with some array indexing math applied to it
<ring0_starr> it's not worth speculating on, just debugging.
netbsduser has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
Arthuria has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
<szatku> pog I use nasm with command: nasm -f bin seconds_stage.asm -o secondst.bin
<szatku> And its weird. I cannot blame first stage, that it loads something incorrectly because bigger bootloader (written i C - the size is a reason why i rewrite it to asm) is loaded properly
Arthuria has joined #osdev
<szatku> this a state of registers when it crashed: https://gist.github.com/SzateX/03c8cf38a8d020de283b126a921525ed
<bslsk05> ​gist.github.com: gist:03c8cf38a8d020de283b126a921525ed · GitHub
Arthuria has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
karenw has joined #osdev
<szatku> I'm not sure the CS is correct. I places hlt before problematic jump, and the value is the same.
<szatku> Ah ok CS looks the same in working bootloader - but diffrence is in GDT
<szatku> ah nvm
<szatku> it points to address
goliath has quit [Quit: SIGSEGV]
agent314 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
<szatku> It looks GDT Register points to correct place, and the values are ok. No idea what is wrong
<karenw> Urgh, it's been ages since I worked on this interrupt handling branch and I have no idea what I was doing or if it's even correct.
<karenw> Maybe I sack it all off, implement ACPI parsing, then come back when I understand what the endgame should look like.
<the_oz_> szatku, time to single step and watch for eip getting weird after your bootloader is jmped to
<szatku> one moment, I need to take from IDA address of jump when it crash
cloudowind has joined #osdev
Left_Turn has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
<bslsk05> ​gist.github.com: gist:338dc5cfa2b5af827127aa5e0dadcb1c · GitHub
<szatku> I hope I do it correctly
<szatku> on f331 is a jump to load_kernel (where I put hlt for tests). But step put me somewhere in weird location
am_i_a_tiger is now known as runxiyu
<szatku> Okay - i look into IDA: EA 30 F3 00 00                                                  jmp     far ptr loc_F330