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<esc--ape--> hi
<Swedaniel> hi
<esc--ape--> compiled some basic infos about "CAI" - Imaging: Content Authenticity Initiative (CAI) / Content Credentials , where better to put this than in ffmpeg ?
<Swedaniel> sound cool! im converting some videos so i cant click much stuff right now:D  :D its a lil bit laggy atm
<esc--ape--> (Laica did update the firmware first, Nikon could be next)
<esc--ape--> so ffmpeg could return "real" 1, "not managed" (0) for CAI
<esc--ape--> oder "hacked" (2) ,)
<esc--ape--> ehm LEICA, not laica
<esc--ape--> "The M11-P pioneers the use of encrypted metadata in compliance with the Content Authenticity Initiative (CAI). This feature provides an additional layer of ..." ... https://leica-camera.com/en-int/photography/cameras/m/m11-p-black/details#
<esc--ape--> sound cool! im converting some videos so i cant click much stuff right now:D  :D its a lil bit laggy atm > used shutter encoder (based on ffmpeg), shows nicely what ffmpeg can do
<esc--ape--> +s
<aaabbb> what's the purpose of that?
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<esc--ape--> jepp, same
<esc--ape--> (PDF linked above @ DMA)
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<aaabbb> bad ideas notwithstanding, what does that have to do with ffmpeg?
<esc--ape--> one could check the files "real" cam or "not" (Ai etc.)
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<aaabbb> esc--ape--: all it would do is cryptographically prove whether some media file comes from a website like cnn
<aaabbb> it wouldn't be able to distinguish between real or fake
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<esc--ape--> sure, it's in the file ... eg. ffmpeg -i *.* plausibility-cai.txt
<aaabbb> all you would find out is that it came from a "trusted source" or not
<aaabbb> if someone uploads a video there is no way to use cai to tell if it is real or not
<aaabbb> all it lets you do is know if someone's copy of an image they claim came from cnn actually came from cnn
<esc--ape--> no
<aaabbb> >The methods proposed by CAI and C2PA do not allow for statements whether a content is "true", i.e., contains authentic information that faithfully reflects reality. Instead, C2PA-compliant metadata only offers reliable information about the origin of a piece of information.
<esc--ape--> why would one invent CAI? all other postings @ DMA ar "AI", not CAI ,)
<twb> They seem to be claiming that your CCD camera would sign the raw image, and then photoshop could manipulate the image without breaking the camera's signature
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<aaabbb> twb: well that's just stupid then
<aaabbb> and really dystopian
<twb> So that you could e.g. crop out Stalin's enemies, but NOT airbrush them out
<twb> I don't really understand how the ALLEGED use case would actually work, though
<esc--ape--> I know that pic @ stalin
<twb> The REAL use case is probably something shady, like HDCP
<aaabbb> twb: the real case is to enforce a monopoly over "real news"
<twb> Mmm
<aaabbb> but i don't see wher it says that the capture device would generate the signatures
<esc--ape--> or SHA1 or... better than nothing?
<twb> esc--ape--: no, SHA1 is already dead
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<aaabbb> just that the provenance is verified
<aaabbb> sha1 is collision vulnerable, use sha2
<esc--ape--> I know ,)
<esc--ape--> the pic of how to enable the setting in LEICA firmware 2.01 is in the pdf
<aaabbb> i think they're just saying that "trusted" organizations would digitally sign media and put that signature in the metadata
<esc--ape--> the pic is signed
<esc--ape--> not the org
<aaabbb> the org does the signing, the pic has the signature
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<esc--ape--> still fine
<aaabbb> still pointless and dangerous, it excludes people who cannot afford the special devices that can sign, and creates a monopoly for specific news sites, and a central authority for what counts as "real"
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<aaabbb> and it would be so easy to hack hardware and totally defeat the signing authenticity
<aaabbb> to make any fake image and pass it off as real
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<esc--ape--> thats normal
<aaabbb> it's just a bad initiative and i hope it dies
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<aaabbb> you could probably write an ffmpeg filter to handdle it if you wanted tho
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<esc--ape--> a webserver can say I'm the real webserver, mailservers can say ... I am already aware of the implications
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<aaabbb> that's digital signing in general not cai
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<aaabbb> but there's a difference, https cert authorities and dkim for email doesn't claim to attest provenence
<esc--ape--> sooner or later "adobe" will show the real "real" files and say you can only trust us (newsroom editing), would be very crazy ,)
<esc--ape--> (look at the pdf > logos)
<aaabbb> i sure hope not
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<esc--ape--> hehe, sure that will come up to a certain degree
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<esc--ape--> even if every agency has its own certificate, i think it would be better, as there are some news guys who don't take some things very seriously with their videos or pictures
<esc--ape--> but yes, all gets hacked somehow
<twb> Can't you already put arbitrary data in EXIF
<aaabbb> an incomplete function to attest legitimacy is worse than no function
<twb> Just fucking add X-Signed-By: and X-Signature fields to EXIF, the end
<esc--ape--> :)
<aaabbb> twb: but then you can't enforce a monopoly on "true newsTM"!
<twb> right I was solving the ALLEGED use case not the secret evil use case
<esc--ape--> hm, well, the camera can also encrypt the photos and only the editors can open them, ok, all gets hacked ,)
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<twb> TBH I'm surprised EXIF doesn't already have signatures
<esc--ape--> yes, bad thing >monopoly on "true newsTM"!
<esc--ape--> exiftool ,)
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<twb> haha no JP2 support in EXIF
<aaabbb> people should not trust that media is real based on its source
<esc--ape--> video = http://moodle-alt.ufg.at./_e-learning/tutorials/imaging_S/V_EXT_ExifTool_Adobe_XMP_Document_ID_Derived_From.mp4
<twb> "real" is a construct anyway
<furq> this all seems kind of farfetched to me
<twb> Adobe is probably run by p-zombies
<furq> do you have a verrit authentication code for it
<esc--ape--> 13th floor
<twb> esc--ape--: yes, I know, I was thinking more Cartesian.
<esc--ape--> 0,1
<esc--ape--> was "Welt am Draht 1973" (DE) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gNl88BD5-k
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<esc--ape--> re-released @ https://www.arthaus.de/welt_am_draht
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<aaabbb> i don't think ffmpeg is the right place for that
<aaabbb> since it's not just audio/vdieo/image
<esc--ape--> I'd say ffmpeg is THE best place
<aaabbb> ffmpeg isn't intended for things like pdfs though
<aaabbb> a standalone utility, or maybe at most a library that ffmpeg could use in a filter or something
<esc--ape--> a filter could be ok, should not take long
<aaabbb> you're free to add one
<aaabbb> but what would the purpose be? transcoding would kill the signature
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<esc--ape--> I have already suggested it to the developers of lightworks (win, macos, linux)...
<esc--ape--> ... one has to import the 1:1 source files to get flagged "green"/"orange"/"red" ,9
<aaabbb> why do you need to import source files?
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<esc--ape--> I mean the original rec files
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<aaabbb> is that the cai stull still?
<esc--ape--> no, it's jill, using fmpeg to some degree ,)
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<esc--ape--> was just a suggestion, it will be implemented commercially anway :/
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<esc--ape--> y
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<aaabbb> i just don't think ffmpeg is the right place for it
<aaabbb> i mean it'd only work for ffprobe
<esc--ape--> cool
<aaabbb> i think there are more important things like vvc :)
<esc--ape--> hm, where is baptiste ,)
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<aaabbb> is there any advantage to using the same motion estimation algorithm as the source video?
<furq> i doubt it
<aaabbb> ok
<termos> do you mean re-using the motion estimation data? i wonder if that has any benefit
<termos> i know there are some libraries that share motion vector data between encodings so you can run the lookahead stuff just once
<furq> well you can't do anything like that with ffmpeg anyway
<furq> to the extent that stuff is even retrievable from an encoded video
<furq> but i think the question was is there some benefit to reencoding with e.g. me=umh if that's what the source video used
<aaabbb> exactly, since x264 on its highest uses umh, and umh is pretty good even in x265
<furq> well i don't think there's a benefit beyond umh just generally being good
<aaabbb> star is typically better though, isn't it?
<furq> idk i don't use x265
<furq> honestly i very rarely touch anything other than preset, tune and crf for x264 and i expect the same is true for x265
<furq> maybe on occasion i'll mess with refs, bframes or merange but i don't see any reason to touch anything else
<aaabbb> i find that lslices sometimes have an adverse effect on performance in some situations so i turn that off occasionally
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<bibble> "FFmpeg is getting better with multithreaded transcoding pipelines" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38160703
<bibble> "It's difficult to understand what this is about without the presentation from Anton, at VideoLAN Dev Days 2023, that you can watch here: " https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4DS3jiZhfo&t=1221
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<tobias> hi! is it possible to use hardware h264 decoding on the raspberry pi 2 (32 bit)?
<tobias> [ffmpeg/video] h264_v4l2m2m: Could not find a valid device
<tobias> [ffmpeg/video] h264_v4l2m2m: can't configure decoder
<tobias> Could not open codec.
<tobias> i have access to /dev/v4l/video* devices
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<BtbN> Isn't that only exposed via some horrible OpenMAX thing?
<JEEB> MMAL I think is the primary API utilized before rpi4
<JEEB> also it'd be required to check the actual capabilities of the broadcom SoC's decoding
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<another|> I hear the RPi solves this problem by simply not having AVC HW. /s
<another|> *RPi 5
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<tobias> so this means h264_v4l2m2m is actually not applicable on rpi2?
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<JEEB> not unless that device has a v4l2 m2m interface driver
<JEEB> which is highly unlikely since I don't think it exists for rpi3 either
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<tobias> JEEB: thanks. i just decided to limit video resolution to 720p, apply some overclocking and decode in software. works good enough in my case.
<Swedaniel> i like 720p, using 1080p is pretty annoying when using an normal video player, the video player windows is huge
<sonicrules1234> Depends on monitor size
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<Swedaniel> yeah, im using 1600x900
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<jokoon> hello
<jokoon> are there video softwares or GUI things that use ffmpeg?
<sonicrules1234> Yes
<jokoon> like a command builder? I use avidemux.
<jokoon> are those softwares open source?
<jokoon> what do people like to use?
<jokoon> I once tried shotcut, felt pretty slow
<sonicrules1234> Yeah, they're open source. I think Handbrake for instance uses ffmpeg behind the scenes
<sonicrules1234> Not sure about a command builder though
<jokoon> I would like to add text, shapes, etc do more things
<galad> handbrake uses part of libavcodec/libavfilter/libavformat, it's not a gui over ffmpeg cli
<sonicrules1234> Most of them aren't gui wrappers of the cli
<galad> most of them are, anyway, handbrake is not a good choice if you want a ffmpeg gui
<jokoon> avidemux feels like it's not maintained anymore
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<LimeOn> Hello. You mean some kind of video editor program? jokoon
<jokoon> yeah, like virtualdub or avidemux
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<LimeOn> you can try kdenlive: https://apps.kde.org/kdenlive/
<LimeOn> they have been doing a lot of work to impre ram consumption, but it feels smooth now in last version
<LimeOn> improve*
<LimeOn> it uses ffmpeg in background
<LimeOn> for rendering and other things as far as i know
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<JanC> there are several video editing tools, e.g. Shotcut, Pitivi, Openshot, Olive, Kdenlive, Kino, Flowblade, ...
<JanC> but they probably all or most work different from virtualdub/avidemux?
<JanC> from what I can tell, Avidemux had its last release in 2022
<JanC> a bit over a year ago
<jokoon> yeah, I like avidemux
<jokoon> it's pretty simple
<jokoon> I cannot figure out kdelinve
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<LimeOn> i guess you can check youtube, some people uploads tutorials on 'how to do X in kdenlive'
<LimeOn> i am not much versed on how the program works, so i cannot help
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