phoebos changed the topic of #kisslinux to: Unnofficial KISS Linux community channel | | post logs or else | song of the day
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<ehawkvu> phoebos: yes that's me
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<sewn> hi
<sad_plan> hi sewn
<sewn> hi sad_plan
<sewn> when will the libplacebo thing of mpv get merged
<sewn> mpv cannot be built currently without it
<sad_plan> wym, I built mpv recently without issues. no libplacebo
<sad_plan> 0.36.0
<sewn> phhhh
<sewn> what
<sad_plan> :D
<sewn> you're using kiss-xorg right
<sad_plan> my own
<sewn> kiss-xorg uses git mpv for some stupid reason
<sad_plan> its not that different though. just disable couple more stuff
<sewn> which breaks without libplacebo
<sewn> hadn't realized repo uses stablr
<sad_plan> well there you have it :p
<sewn> mpv releases once or twice a year
<sewn> its been a few months since the last one
<sewn> could release at any moment
<sad_plan> sure. one could also just pin to certain commits. I often do that to avoid the bs of having to reclone repos. which requires internet
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<sewn> my best guess is that stable mpv needs libplacebo as a subproject anyeay
<sewn> but it doesn't require it as a subproject, more of a system library
<sewn> and kiss doesn't like bundled packages (except compose-tables and xkeyboard-config)
<ehawkvu> anyone here familiar with bubblewrap?
<sewn> testuse:
<sewn> nvm hes not here
<sewn> i think he is
<ehawkvu> I'm experiencing one of the strangest bugs...
<sewn> what is it?
<ehawkvu> so, right now I'm working on having builds that occur inside bubblewrap
<sewn> is there no bwrap library
<sewn> or are you unable to do that in listp
<sewn> also wow i never knew this was that big
<ehawkvu> I'm shelling out to the cli so it's a non-issue
<ehawkvu> anyways
<ehawkvu> the first time that the code runs, it immediately fails, claiming that it is unable to find the package's build script
<ehawkvu> however, when you run the code a second time, it magically works
<ehawkvu> Maybe there's something I'm not understanding when it comes to how you are properly supposed to expose binds, but that behavior seems completely wrong
<sewn> kisslinux has 49 members
<sewn> i recall kisslinux having like alot more than that
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<sewn> I wonder where everyone went
<sewn> it used to be super active back then!!!
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<sad_plan> hi
<sad_plan> sewn: im asking myself the same question. used to me so much more activity here
<ukky> sad_plan: hi. I hope you don't mind me staying here, as I am not using KISS Linux, just curious.
<sad_plan> ukky: I dont. I just pointed out that its alot less activity here now, than what it used to be
<sad_plan> why arent you using kiss though?
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<ukky> when time came to switch from previous distro, made a decision to try another distro first. But I like many features of KISS Linux.
<sad_plan> I see. what distro are you on now?
<ukky> using CRUX now. switched from Gentoo.
<sad_plan> cool. never tried crux myself. can you use only personal ports on crux aswell as kiss' personal repos?
<ukky> yes, you can. I modify a lot of official ports, plus create new ports.
<sad_plan> cool. its nice to see that other distros also allow aloot of user freedoms, in terms of customization
<sewn> what is crux's package format? makefiles?
<sad_plan> i think theyre just called pkgfiles
<ukky> main file is 'Pkgfile', which is sourced from a shell script. Pkgfile defines deps, optional deps, source locations, and build() function that compiles and creates files in package dir
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<ukky> which device manager is mostly used in kiss linux, mdev or udev? Does anybody use static /dev? Just curious.
<sad_plan> busybox's mdev is probably the most used, then comes mdevd.
<sad_plan> I personally dont use anything at all
<ukky> I tried static /dev first, then moved onto busybox' mdev. Most crux users use eudev (default).
<sad_plan> I see. static /dev didnt cut it for you?
<ukky> Static /dev was working well, I just like to experiment and find optimal solution. I might switch back to static /dev if something will bother me using mdev.
<sad_plan> sure. I personally dont need it, because I use tinyx, so the devices I use gets detected just fine without it
<ukky> Switching from SystemV to Runit made my system boot faster, from 50 seconds to 10 seconds, measuring from starting /sbit/init to agetty login prompt.
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<sad_plan> thats a really nice improvement
<ukky> sad_plan: timyx, like from ?
<sad_plan> correct
<ukky> cool
<sad_plan> statically linked however :D
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<ukky> Do you mean non-configurable, or 'gcc -static' ?
<sad_plan> gcc -static. although I now use -static-pie so that I can enable aslr or w/e it was called
<ukky> Why static? It seems like everybody voices agains it?
<ukky> I even disable '-static' for non-initramfs busybox build.
<sad_plan> why not? that is also part of why I enjoy it.
<sad_plan> static linking is also getting rather niche, which is something I can enjoy
<sad_plan> I also have none of the issues with abi instabilty
<sad_plan> I dont *have* to rebuild a package when a library gets updated an thus breaks several packages
<ukky> of course, there are advantages to static linking
<sad_plan> yep. old system like plan9 iirc, is statically linked, so its somewhat a thing of the past. I does however require you to rebuild packages when libraries and such are updates, so it does take a more toll on your system. not that it matters to me
<sad_plan> for the most part I did initially just enjoy that I could remove aloot of packages which wasnt needed at runtime anymore due to static linking.
<sad_plan> potentially, I can even remove zlib
<sad_plan> with oasislinux, you can even skip having a libc
<sad_plan> that said, if you have a 100% statically linked system
<sad_plan> alot of people would probably scoff at that, and ask; why the hell would you even do that?
<sad_plan> my answer to this is simple; because I can
<ukky> respect for going extra mile beyond what is considered normal/default
<sad_plan> yeah. my biggest hurdle is really the browser though. if you cant use mesa, available browsers is.. lacking.
<sad_plan> your mostly left with textbased browsers like links or lynx, or perhaps netsurf like oasis uses
<sewn> /join #sourcemage
<sewn> oops
<ukky> yeah, most browsers have crazy dependencies. ATK, D-Bus, you name it
<sewn> chromium and firefox doesnt need atk
<sewn> nor dbus
<sewn> they are optional, each provide their own notification handling
<sad_plan> I knoow.. theyre rather horrible, or I like firefox initially, but its horrible to build from scratch.. alot of work, and takes ages to build everything needed
<sad_plan> not that webkit is that much better though. actually has more deps, and takes just about the same time to build as firefox does
<ukky> I couldn't remove sime stuff from chromium, but could remove ATK and D-Bus from firefox. Removing ATK from Gentoo was painful.
<sewn> firefox takes 10 minutes chromium takes 3 hours
<sewn> ukky: just do know that chromium needs atk actually
<sewn> but in the build system it uses it doesnt require it
<sewn> the atk patch in gtk+ just has stub functions which makes chromium die or gtk die (kiss-xorg #145)
<sad_plan> I cant help but feel that gentoo isnt always as user friendy when it comes to customizations..
<sewn> gentoo: portage.conf edit
<sewn> kisslinux: fork package, read build system flags
<ukky> sewn: maybe ATK was the reason I could not use chromium on my setup after I removed ATK
<sewn> yes, chromium on x11 without atk will do a segfault
<sad_plan> but in portage.conf, you can specify wether curl build with nls, correct?
<sad_plan> s/can/cant
<sewn> what is nls?
<sad_plan> native language support. kiss removes it on more or less all packages upstream
<sad_plan> --disable-nls usually
<sewn> gentoo is doing its bare minimum to 'support everyone'
<ukky> Gentoo is _very_ good at customization, but became overbloated to my taste.
<sewn> which yknow i think nls is still important for them
<sewn> i wish i had makeflags on kiss
<sad_plan> cant please everyone I suppose. or rather you can, by just giving the user the ability to choose for them selves, like KISS does
<sewn> kiss is a meta-distro, its designed to be easy to fork so i cant really blame
<sad_plan> exacly.
<sad_plan> is there other meta distros really? or distros that specifically define themselfs as meta-distros
<sewn> i dont know of any
<sad_plan> bedrock is appearently considered a meta-distro
<sad_plan> and mocaccinOS. never heard of it. is also a meta-distro. just looked up meta-distros
<sewn> bedrock is like a table
<sewn> you put prebuilt furnitures on it
<sewn> kiss is a set of instructions, a plank of wood and some tools
<paradigm> sad_plan: Gentoo considers itself a metadistro:
<paradigm> The Bedrock Linux project's definition of a metadistro also includes LFS, but I'm not sure if LFS considers themselves a metadistro:
<sewn> lfs is a 1000-page book of instructions, a plank of wood, and no tools
<sad_plan> so basically it means that the distro does not distrobute end-goal software. what
<sad_plan> that means that more or less all source-based distros are technically meta-distros, as they dont distrobute the software it self. atleast thats how I understand it
<paradigm> This is one of those things where you may not have clean groupings, and definitions here get blurry. Even non-meta "Linux distro" can be hard to define; Debian is usually categorized as such, but they offer non-Linux kernels like FreeBSD and HURD/Mach. But yes, I think the Bedrock definition would effectively include all source-based Linux distros (along with other not necessarily source based
<paradigm> projects).
<sad_plan> exacly
<sewn> t
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