10:24 <sewn> hji

10:24 <sewn> hi

12:39 <sad_plan> hi

13:02 <vova> hi

14:46 <vova> You are all using wayland, or someone went (or just didn't move from) X ?

14:46 <sad_plan> I use tinyx

14:47 <vova> Why don't use wayland ?

14:47 <vova> Not a critic

14:47 <vova> I like wayland, but like you need pipewire to do screenshot etc, it's fucking sad

14:47 <vova> X was simpler

14:48 <sad_plan> meh, ive not yet found a wm that I like

14:48 <sad_plan> im in no hurry in switching anyway so

14:48 <sad_plan> I know of spkp, but its broken beyond my ability to fix

14:49 <sad_plan> I also happen to like that tinyx doesnt require mesa. so initially, I just dont require that much stuff

14:50 <vova> Yeah understandable and I guess X won't die anyways, there's some active fork like the OpenBSD one

14:50 <vova> IIRC NetBSD also has its own X fork

14:50 <sad_plan> yeah, xenocara is cool. but ive never got it to work. it did build, but it never launched for me.

14:50 <sad_plan> do they?

14:51 <vova> Yeah NetBSD has it's own "modular" X fork

14:52 <vova> sad_plan: what repo do you use for X stuff

14:52 <sad_plan> but its already somewhat modular, so I dont get the deal

14:52 <sad_plan> my own, or kiss-xorg

14:52 <sad_plan> s/or/and

14:53 <vova> The X.org X11 Server from the modularized source tree of

14:53 <vova> X.org X11.

14:53 <vova> https://pkgsrc.se/x11/modular-xorg-server

14:53 <vova> my bad it's not a fork it seems

14:54 <sad_plan> very well then

15:30 <sewn> vova: you need pipewire for screensharing not screenshotting

15:31 <vova> yeah my bad

15:31 <vova> But you see what I mean

15:31 <vova> pipewire for screensharing, for accessing webcam and so on, it's sad

15:32 <vova> X you need nothing

15:34 <sewn> in my eyes the difference between X and wayland is that wayland is core and all features are external (like screensharing, compositing, input, etc) while X is a big monolithic do-all

15:34 <vova> Yeah but that's the issue

15:34 <sewn> most applications want easier route for screensharing for wayland so they go with dbus, then the portal wlroots which itself needs pipewire

15:34 <vova> why the fuck do you need pipewire if you just want to screenshare

15:35 <sewn> because wayland doesn't provide it

15:35 <vova> like what if I want to use alsa for the sound, I'm still forced to use pipewire

15:36 <sewn> then dont screenshare

15:37 <vova> :(

15:37 <vova> pipewire is the new systemd

15:37 <vova> bloatware

15:38 <sewn> atleast pipewire gives you some form of freedom and control over all of its modules and such, can disable dbus if needed

15:38 <vova> Yeah but still too big

15:38 <sewn> i use pipewire to have the ability to easily switch audio devices

15:39 <sewn> and also most applications dont support bare ALSA

15:39 <sewn> atleast that i use

15:43 <sad_plan> tinyalsa and alsa-lib is all that I need. ive been trying to rid myself of alsa-lib though, and just use sndio/tinyalsa, but ive yet to get it to work

15:44 <sewn> sad_plan: doesnt sndio on linux simply run as compatibility layer for ALSA? or does linux support sndio natively

15:44 <sewn> ive used sndio on openbsd and i can say its better than alsa AND pipewire by miles

15:48 <sad_plan> im not sure actually tbh. I seem to recall I got it working once, but then I rebuilt my system, and Ive never gotten it to work after that

15:48 <sad_plan> sndio is supported on linux. no patches is afaik required

15:51 <sewn> that sounds cool

15:53 <sad_plan> sure

15:54 <sad_plan> on their website, it states its actually a server. and so is alsa-lib's aserver. so.. I would assume it would be possible. I dunno.