ChanServ changed the topic of #kisslinux to: Unnofficial KISS Linux community channel | | post logs or else | song of the day
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<Ellowee[m]> <midfavila> ""; <- BASED
<Ellowee[m]> Reading comments, lame
<midfavila> it's standard 115 IQ holier than thou bullshit
<Ellowee[m]> Only one sane comment in there
* midfavila shrugs
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<Ellowee[m]> <midfavila> ""; <- >Uwu poor it on budget
<Ellowee[m]> I hate paid freedom detractors
<Ellowee[m]> * >Uwu poor IT on budget
<Ellowee[m]> I hate paid freedom detractors
<midfavila> i just hate redditors
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<sad_plan> hi
<sewn> hi
<sad_plan> cool. framework has announced they are now going to have amd cpus available aswell. even a new 16" laptop too is comming later
<sewn> weoohoo
<sad_plan> :D
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<testuser[m]123> Hi
<sad_plan> hi
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<sad_plan> sewn, can you test if this builds fine for you without autotools? im onto something on building tinyx without autotools
<sad_plan> neccessary libs is in kiss-xorg
<sad_plan> I added it in the PR over at kiss-xorg aswell, if you havent noticed already
<sewn> why the hell are you building without autotools
<sewn> its a package that will be installed and can just be removed after compiling
<sewn> theres no harm
<sad_plan> less packages to build initially. like perl.
<sewn> but its harmless and automatic can can be removed
<sad_plan> if you dont need autotools, that 4 less packages needed to build tinyx
<sad_plan> I know, but what if I dont want perl on my system? or autotools for that matter
<sewn> i said they can be removed
<sewn> also, xclip depends on autoconf as well
<sad_plan> obviously, but this isnt why id asked you to check if it builds. I already know youre critical against this
<sewn> it builds
<sad_plan> I know, so do xsel, which I use
<sewn> bruh
<sad_plan> thank you
<sewn> if xsel depends on autoconf, which you use, how come you allow it to use autoconf
<sewn> its easy to be removed after intsallation
<sad_plan> I initially dont
<sad_plan> both xclip and xsel depends on it. I just havent gotten around removing it yet
<sad_plan> also, I dont use xsel that often
<sad_plan> very rearly now that I think about it
<sewn> omg bleh
<sad_plan> anyway, thanks for checking if it builds
<sewn> im with you but im not with how complex it is to maintain a non autoconf tinyx
<sewn> its gonna be horrible to maintain, but you said you're fine with it so
<sad_plan> tinyx recieves very little changes over time, so I dont think this is an issue at all tbh
<sewn> ahhhhhhhh
<sad_plan> it has 38 commits to begin with. and last commit was nov 7, last year, and the one before that, was jan 23 2021. so.. not much work tbh :p
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<midfavila> sewn: autotools restricts you to GNU m4
<midfavila> removing autotools removes GNU m4
<sewn> i have gnu m4 on my system
<sewn> without autoconf or automake
<midfavila> as an implicit dependency
<midfavila> i figured that much was obvious
<sewn> what
<midfavila> if you use any packages that rely on autotools, you need gnu m4 and gnu make
<midfavila> by not doing that, you don't
<sewn> oh ok
<sewn> well kiss uses gnu make so
<midfavila> kiss' rootfs also uses gcc, what's your point?
<sewn> woah chill
<midfavila> i don't think i will
<midfavila> i just woke up and don't have patience for this shit
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<sad_plan> hm now I got curious if I could build tinyx without gmake to begin with. or the whole stack for that matter. both pdpmake and bmake has been used or mentioned earlier several times.
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<sewn> had split packages proposal in kiss ever been discussed before?
<sad_plan> sounds somewhat familiar
<sad_plan> what do you have in mind?
<drez> how difficult does it tend to be to port packages from autotools to BSD-compatible makefiles?
<sad_plan> bsd include autotools afaik
<drez> ._.
<sad_plan> atleast pkgsrc for netbsd
<sad_plan> I dont have a list over how many of them use autotools though
<drez> ok but bmake-compatible
<drez> netbsd make
<drez> is make standardized? then, I mean standard make
<drez> files
<sad_plan> so gmake then. is basically the standard
<drez> buh
<drez> bmake-compatible
<sad_plan> yeah. I do however know alot of stuff does work with bmake, or even pdpmake
<drez> Yeah quite a bit of stuff
<sad_plan> I know did some testing here earlier. theres an issue about it as a proposal
<drez> interdasting
<drez> also, what do you guys think about a makefile-centric distro such as morpheus?
<sad_plan> theres also a comment there outlining what doesnt build with.. soemthing else. not sure if he used pdpmake or just bmake
<drez> it does not seem like morpheus survived very long
<drez> while the biggest hack, but also the grandpappy, of musl distros is still around : sabotage
<sad_plan> I actually thing morpheus is abit of bullshit.. they claim is mkbased.. but the mkfiles just.. calls make
<drez> do they? I don't recall that
<sewn> <sad_plan> "what do you have in mind?" <- idk
<sewn> just curious if anyone had wanted
<sewn> it
<sad_plan> yeah, look at the 'buildscripts' drez
<sewn> i dont know of any usecase, simply be able to split packages, same source but different package output similar to -devel and other things
<sad_plan> also, sabotage is cool. but I belive the repo is a mess. its not structured so its easy to see what packages is what..
<sad_plan> they got several packages for gcc i.e.
<drez> sad_plan: yes like gcc474 or gcc650
<drez> stuff like that
<drez> I used it before
<sad_plan> sewn, so basically harfbuzz-icu?
<sewn> sad_plan: yep like that
<drez> it's not that unorganized, but the package manager and build chain are arcane
<sad_plan> drez, was it any good though?
<sad_plan> sure.
<drez> it was good
<drez> I ported it to the wii one time
<drez> I enjoyed it
<sad_plan> I was considering trying it, but I had some issues with the bootstrapping, so I sortof.. gave up. I didnt really bother
<drez> bootstrapping was not easy
<drez> but I can't say how easy it is on amd64
<drez> I basically only tried it for powerpc
<drez> and since I had to make a new kernel package, build the cross toolchain etc that made it more difficult
<sad_plan> I see
<sad_plan> I kinda like oasis more. its simpler
<sad_plan> or kiss for that matter, but in regards to statically linked
<drez> I would say it is simpler indeed
<sad_plan> yeah
<drez> I do like sabotage's maintainer's software choices quite a bit
<drez> the biggest browser ported is pale moon
<sad_plan> isnt that the main browser?
<sad_plan> instead of firefox or something else..
<drez> yes the main browser
<drez> in the distro
<drez> as for firefox, only 52esr
<drez> no rust
<sad_plan> I do find that to be abit of an odd choice, but sure. why not
<sad_plan> aaaah
<sad_plan> I see now. that makes sence
<sad_plan> so he doesnt have to bother with rust at all
<sad_plan> clever
<drez> yes he keeps his distro fairly clean
<drez> i say 'he' because of course, it is practically maintained by one guy
<sad_plan> except for the pkg dir that is :p but yeah
<drez> all through these 10 yrs
<drez> 12 yrs now
<sad_plan> but the one thats currently used, is actually a fork, iirc
<drez> really ?
<drez> oh of course it was forked from leah2
<drez> but that was a long time
<sad_plan> I think so. I may be wrong. I seem to recall soemthing like that when reading about it on their website or someplace
<sad_plan> yeah
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<drez> > but that was a long time | *ago
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<sad_plan> I remember that blogpost
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<midfavila> mfw
<Ellowee[m]> Bartering isn't taxable I think
<midfavila> it's also not going to pay your rent
<midfavila> well, not usually anyway
<midfavila> truly dystopic
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