12:00 <farkuhar> The openssh-9.9p2 configure script does not seem to have a flag for disabling the eager linking with libmd. darfo might be comfortable setting up a qemu vm for building an openssh package not linked to libmd, but anyone who prefers running a bare-metal installation would take a big risk removing libmd before rebuilding openssh.

12:04 <farkuhar> There is a flag --disable-shadow in the openssh configure script, so maybe the libmd dependency got incorporated into openssh through the eagerly-linked shadow. If shadow is first rebuilt using --without-libbsd, maybe openssh would not inherit the libmd dependency.

12:07 <farkuhar> Anyway, it's easy enough to test. I already have a shadow 4.17.3 not linked to libbsd, so I just have to rebuild openssh and see if the libmd dependency still persists.

12:30 <farkuhar> In response to a question about last year's delay in bumping the spectrwm version, jue replied that its new dependency libbsd had been moved to core in 3.8 "for various reasons". That's more polite than the "glibc stupidity" cited in the upstream commit:

12:31 <farkuhar> https://github.com/conformal/spectrwm/commit/c8302056854b448f9da7117a91ac6b71f165c72d#diff-9e2d14712bc2c618f744b8d4f01f7ef43c2baa8fb1d91dd45bbde4448ba633a4

12:36 <farkuhar> If darfo is correct that everything else in core can be built without libbsd and libmd, then moving those two ports to opt is arguably more aligned with "stripping away the non-essential". But I recall darfo taking the other side on the issue of linux-pam, expressing disagreement with the idea that CRUX core should be as small as possible.

12:43 <farkuhar> Quoting darfo's post to the CRUX mailing list on 26 April 2024: "On the topic of PAM: I don't care one way or the other. If it makes life for the CRUX team (bless them) easier then it should be in core. I disagree with any that say CRUX core should be the tiniest possible."

12:46 <farkuhar> There is the convenient retort that "a foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds", so darfo can claim to have a bigger mind, untroubled by taking one side on the issue of linux-pam, and then taking the other side when it comes to libbsd and libmd.

12:52 <farkuhar> As for why the CRUX-MUSL fork took a hard-line stance on removing the non-essential linux-pam, but left unpatched the core ports that eagerly link to libbsd and libmd, not suffering from "the hobgoblin of little minds" is again a convenient excuse. But perhaps the CRUX-MUSL team was simply less opinionated against libbsd, having so much collective familiarity with *BSD systems.

13:20 <ukky> farkuhar: Having a few extra functions from *BSD (like strlcat from libbsd or SHA512Init) didn't bother me as much as some spooky library which intercepts user authentication flow. But I agree, if all core ports can be built without libbsd/libmd, they have to be removed from core.

13:35 <SiFuh> I was thinking we need a bot to reply to farkuhar so he doesn't feel like he is talking in the wind.

15:15 <SiFuh_> ukky: iGo-AIR stupid video, but a cool idea. I thought about this back in the 90's when I use to take a Mitsubishi Colt off-road in Australia. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esDJrbSC2J0

18:12 <SiFuh_> farkuhar: Are you here?

18:13 <SiFuh_> I had something to ask you.

22:01 <SiFuh_> President Trump Thinks It’s ‘A Good Idea’ For The USA To Join The British Commonwealth

22:01 <SiFuh_> Is he fucking kidding? Does he have any idea what that would mean?