<Pixel_Outlaw>
Still need to test the jumps and such though.
<Pixel_Outlaw>
Maybe put up a LTK GUI
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<beach>
Why not CLIM?
<Pixel_Outlaw>
I've not used CLIM, I browsed the docs a bit and it seems like it'd take a lot more work to get LTK's level of widgets.
<Pixel_Outlaw>
Nothing against CLIM I'm just ignorant of it. :)
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<beach>
With CLIM, it is extremely easy to whip up a GUI, but it might not (currently) be as native looking as if you go FFI.
<beach>
Plus, with CLIM, you avoid all the hassle trying to debug an application that uses a (very) different language in addition to Common Lisp.
<beach>
But you are right, it takes a while to learn.
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<splittist>
My beginner's impression of CLIM is that it is great for growing a GUI as you explore your application's solution-space. But if you already have in mind a 'normal' widgets-and-gadgets/MVC etc style GUI that you want to bring to life, (current) CLIM will not make it easy.
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<dnhester26>
I am thinking of making a role based access control package, and since the concept uses inheritance, I thought: why not just use CLOS instead of making something new? the idea is to: - just create a class for each role - some classes can have inheritance - just assign role classes to the user
<dnhester26>
The question is should I model each user in the system as an instance that I dynamically assign the classes for which it has roles in? Or should each user be corresponding to a new class which inherits from each of the role classes? The goal is to check (is-obj-instance-of-class user-obj role-class). The user is loaded from a DB row... Is this a good way to model ths? Or just resort to making my own logic for dealing with inheritan
<dnhester26>
ce and not use the CLOS?
<dnhester26>
inheritance* (the word was cut because of the message character limit)
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<dnhester26>
I guess this is a CL design question not a syntax question
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<beach>
dnhester26: I would give you some advice, but I know nothing of the domain, so I have none to give.
<phoe>
stealth-mixin could possibly be of use here if you want to use the class DAG to model this behavior
<phoe>
I have no idea if this is the best idea though
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<dnhester26>
phoe: thanks for the recommendation, I'll look into it
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<dnhester26>
beach: thanks, the domain knowledge is very simple: usually you have roles represented by strings ("guest" "buyer" "seller" "admin" "") and some rules like a buyer can do anything that a guest can do: ("buyer" "guest"), and an admin can do anything that a buyer or seller can do ("admin" "buyer" "seller"). Finally, a user database which has a column with a list of the roles assigned to that user say (:name "robert" :roles ("buyer"))
<dnhester26>
. That is the whole system, then some functions in the program will only be accessible if the user has a certain role. I picked buyer and seller here to show roles that do not inherit from each other. The code can just check if say john is an admin, can he access a buyer function. The system has to check johns role, then compare his role to the permission for the function which is buyer, and then realize that the admin role inherit
<dnhester26>
s the buyer role, so therefore he has access even though he only has the "admin" role in his roles list
<dnhester26>
So this is really a modeling in common lisp question
<dnhester26>
I think most libraries in other languages do some sort of search comparing each string and then using each string to find its inherited roles and again compare or find more inherited roles
<dnhester26>
It's basically a classic search problem with depth first or breath first search
<dnhester26>
It's just that it matches exactly how classes work, specially with multiple inheritance
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<dnhester26>
So this could basically be a shortcut to avoid writing a lot of code since all that logic is already programmed into the CLOS
<dnhester26>
hahaha phoe: I just realized that library was written by beach himself
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<phoe>
dnhester26: that's a part of the humor in this situation, yes
<beach>
gilberth came up with the idea of stealth mixins (but not the name I think), and we published a joint paper about them at the Australian Software Engineering conference. Quite some time ago.
<phoe>
one issue is how to represent "users" in that situation
<beach>
Yeah, I don't see an easy way to do that and take advantage of CLOS generic dispatch.
<dnhester26>
I think the point of that package is when we don't want the target (or victim class as they call it) to know of the mixin, but for my case it actually doesn't matter
<phoe>
re-reading stealth mixins, this seems to require that each user should be represented by a singular class
<phoe>
so that you can add a mixin only to the user in question
<beach>
phoe: That was my analysis too. And that class would then inherit from all the roles the user can have.
<phoe>
dnhester26: I assume it could be, you'd just need to write a SETF for it too
<phoe>
but, yes, what beach said
<beach>
dnhester26: I don't see a reason why it is a macro.
<dnhester26>
thanks, yeah exactly, that's what I wrote in the original question
<dnhester26>
"The question is should I model each user in the system as an instance that I dynamically assign the classes for which it has roles in? Or should each user be corresponding to a new class which inherits from each of the role classes? The goal is to check (is-obj-instance-of-class user-obj role-class). The user is loaded from a DB row..."
<phoe>
I wonder if using superclasses isn't overkill; you could (defclass user () (roles ...) ...) and have ROLES contain a list of strings/keywords
<dnhester26>
beach: ok thanks, I thought I was missing something, could that be what phoe meant with the setf? but gethash seems to not need anything
<phoe>
and then model your RBAC around (MEMBER ROLE (USER-ROLES ...)) or something
<dnhester26>
phoe yeah, I think that's how most other languages model it since there's no dynamic class definitions
<phoe>
dnhester26: (setf (gethash ...) ...) is handled by the macro case; it's just a dirty shortcut to avoid writing DEFUN FOO and DEFUN (SETF FOO)
<phoe>
dnhester26: classes are usually responsible for groups of objects though, unless you want a big collection of singletons
<phoe>
at which point you've just pushed the instance-class hierarchy one element up the chain into the class-metaclass hierarchy
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<dnhester26>
right, the whole reason to model it that way was this: "(is-obj-instance-of-class user-obj role-class)"
<dnhester26>
for the inheritance of roles, like an admin can do anything the guest can do, even though the admin role inherits only from buyer and seller, buyer inherits from guest
<dnhester26>
and I thought they could be short lived classes or objects, just when loading them from the DB, assign the classes to the newly created object/class, do whatever checking I need, and then it should be garbage collected
<dnhester26>
Probably as an object that I assign it a class dynamically will be easier for the garbage collection
<dnhester26>
and then when the function returns I expect the object will be garbage collected
<dnhester26>
It just makes it easier to check the inheritance
<dnhester26>
I think after thinking about it because of the garbage collection that using objects and assigning to them classes is better than defining a new class per user
<dnhester26>
ok, thanks!
<dnhester26>
it will also make it easier to associate it with the user data since it will be the same object in CL
<dnhester26>
so I think design wise that's the best
<dnhester26>
is adding classes dynamically to an object something I need closer-mop for or just regular CL?
<beach>
An object is always an instance of one particular class.
<beach>
So you would have to redefine the class that the object is an instance of and add more superclasses.
<beach>
You can do that with REINITIALIZE-INSTANCE on the class metaobject.
<beach>
But again, you would then have one class for each user, and that class would have a single instance.
<beach>
Not that that solution is problematic. A class is not a very complicated object.
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<dnhester26>
my question is will these mixed classes be deleted after the function returns and I don't have to worry about my system memory bloating up?
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<dnhester26>
ohhh no! I made a mistake! found the wrong github code hahahaha it was dynamic-mixins not dynamic-classes, my bad
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<phoe>
minion: memo for dnhester26: no, classes won't get cleaned up afterwards; you will need to explicitly remove them from the system
<minion>
Remembered. I'll tell dnhester26 when he/she/it next speaks.
* thuna`
.oO("they" isn't that complicated)
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<bjorkint0sh>
it's a bot. it/he/she/they/those knows little.
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<Shinmera>
minion: are you a bot?
<minion>
i'm not a bot. i prefer the term ``electronically composed''.
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<BrokenCog>
can slime connected to a remote lisp session? or does it need to be local?
<BrokenCog>
*be connected
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<BrokenCog>
sorry ... wrong channel. Thought I was in #emacs ... but, I figured it out ... turns out I can't connect remoetly, but can start the process and connect via ssh
<jfh>
BrokenCog: you can use swank:create-server in the remote box, then in the local box connect to it using Mx slime-connect
<jfh>
assuming ports are open, etc
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<BrokenCog>
jfh: by default create-server only listens on localhost, I suspect it can be told to listen globally, but, I haven't figured out any way to secure the port which doesn't seem healthy so I'll use ssh with a tunnel for Emacs.
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<kagevf>
BrokenCog: I think you can use interface to specify an IP
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<BrokenCog>
:interface to create-server?
<kagevf>
for example, I've done (swank:create-server :interface "192.168.1.2" :dont-close t)
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<BrokenCog>
ah. okay.
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<kagevf>
assuming the .2 is my remote, then you would slime-connect to that
<BrokenCog>
but that would accept all connections without validation, yes?
<BrokenCog>
if it were in a LAN obviously I wouldn't mind ... but this is to a remote server.
<kagevf>
yeah, there's not security that I'm aware of, it's up to your system settings
<kagevf>
*no security*
<BrokenCog>
right.
<kagevf>
I've used that in combination with tramp ... it's pretty nice
<BrokenCog>
how do you mean?
<kagevf>
so tramp will ssh into your remote so you can access the files
<BrokenCog>
oh ... having tramp start the ssh tunnel?
<kagevf>
right
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<kagevf>
tramp to do your edits, swank + slime for the repl
<BrokenCog>
right. that's what I'm using now.
<kagevf>
nice :+1
<BrokenCog>
but I needed to start an out-of-band ssh tunnel. I'll try to get putty to do it instead.
<BrokenCog>
the problem is for some reason I can only use plink. ssh and putty won't connect.
<BrokenCog>
i'm not sure if plnik will create tunnels.
<kagevf>
is your local Windows?
<BrokenCog>
yes.
<kagevf>
ok, I've done that before ...
<kagevf>
I remember it was kind of tricky ... I think I had trouble with the path??
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<BrokenCog>
if you think of it PM me?? I have to go.
<kagevf>
BrokenCog: yeah, I'll send you some DMs
<BrokenCog>
thanks!
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<paule32>
hello
<paule32>
how can i make a list of an input string, that the user typed in ?
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<yitzi>
Like convert a string to a list?
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<paule32>
yes
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<yitzi>
Try coerce
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<paule32>
okay, thx
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<NotThatRPG>
Anyone know how to use the `cl-docker-images` repos on common-lisp.net gitlab to generate new docker images? These repos seem to be intended for use with some toolchain, but I can't find any indication of what that toolchain is or how to use it.
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<yitzi>
NotThatRPG: I submitted some updates to cl-docker-images and got no responses. They seem needlessly complex to me. Instead I just made this https://github.com/yitzchak/archlinux-cl
<ixelp>
GitHub - yitzchak/archlinux-cl: Docker Arch Linux image with Common Lisp implementations
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<NotThatRPG>
yitzi: Yes, I think the image repos were maintained by Eric Timmons, who is no longer able to do this, and AFAICT no one has taken this over. I sort of figured out how to make my own Allegro 11 Express image.
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<younder>
Hrmf.. remove-if-not is a double negative. It should be collect-if. I mean the function is non-destructive. It doesn't actually remove anything!
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<Alfr>
younder, the destructive ones are named delete instead of remove.
<Alfr>
younder, that is only to say, that the use is consistent with that choice.
<Odin-LAP>
younder: I believe that's why it's marked deprecated in the spec.
<NotThatRPG>
younder: Peter Norvig recommended using `find-all-if` as an alias for `remove-if-not`...
<gilberth>
Odin-LAP: I always believed it's deprecated because of COMPLEMENT.
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<NotThatRPG>
Note that I could imagine a case where remove-if-not is really done for removing, but often saying `find-if` is better because it captures the programmer's intentions.
<NotThatRPG>
I don't *think* ALEXANDRIA has a FIND-ALL, does it?
<gilberth>
I think KEEP-IF would have been a better name.
<NotThatRPG>
(I did mean FIND-ALL, not FIND-ALL-IF)
<NotThatRPG>
It's a nuisance to implement FIND-ALL using REMOVE-IF-NOT...
<younder>
find is the first occurence. This returns all occurences
<gilberth>
Which is not what I want.
<gilberth>
I want a new sequence that is the original sequence with only those elements kept that satisfy the test.
<gilberth>
Not a set of all elements that satisfy the test.
<NotThatRPG>
gilberth: ? Not sure I follow -- you want a *new* sequence, so not DELETE-IF-NOT, but you don't want a set of all elements? What's the difference?
<NotThatRPG>
Do you want to maintain the original ordering?
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<gilberth>
Order.
<NotThatRPG>
I need to check, but If I recall correctly, REMOVE is not stable
<gilberth>
When I read "find all element that are odd", I think that you just want some list of all odd elements. A set.
<zyd>
Serapeum has `defalias', in style of the elisp function. Pretty nice for renaming stuff.
<NotThatRPG>
Actually gilberth I am wrong: "For all these functions, elements not removed or deleted occur in the same order in the result as they did in sequence."
<zyd>
(defalias make-unbound #'makunbound)
<NotThatRPG>
So you keep the order if you use REMOVE-IF or -IF-NOT
<gilberth>
"For all these functions, elements not removed or deleted occur in the same order in the result as they did in sequence." <https://novaspec.org/cl/f_remove>
<ixelp>
remove, remove-if, remove-if-not, delete, delete-if, delete-if-not | Common Lisp Nova Spec
<younder>
Maintaining order is always a good thing. Most data is partially sorted and this helps efficiency.
<NotThatRPG>
gilberth: So it sounds like these functions do exactly what you want.
<gilberth>
NotThatRGP: I was just saying that if that FIND-ALL mentioned is REMOVE-IF-NOT, I don't like the name.
<younder>
That's why sort algorithms with sorted data as a worst case are dreadful.
<gilberth>
And that I would prefer a name like KEEP-IF. This is more precise than COLLECT-IF as well IMHO.
* Nilby
imagines both ordered and chaotic versions in a Lisp with more intrinsic parallelism.
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<gilberth>
What I miss from CL two, is a function to partition a sequence. A special case would be to partition into two sequences, one satisfying the test and one that does not. Here a stable and unstable version would actually make sense.
<gilberth>
As I catch myself saying things like (let ((the-foos (remove-if-not #'foop list)) (the-other (remove-if #'foop list))) ...).
<gilberth>
That's going over the list twice. FOOP might be expensive.
<Mondenkind>
(loop for x in list if (foop x) collect x into foos else collect x into not-foos finally ...)
<gilberth>
And I name it PARTITION. I prefer to name functions by nouns over naming by verbs, if possible.
<Odin-LAP>
gilberth: You are aware that it makes no difference in this case, no?
* thuna`
.oO(Isn't "to partition" also a verb?)
<gilberth>
But spot that ASSOC there. A more clever implementation could use a hash-table if test allows for.
<gilberth>
Odin-LAP: I read "group" in GROUP-BY as a verb.
<Odin-LAP>
gilberth: I mean that 'partition' is also both.
<gilberth>
thua`: It is, indeed. But it also is a mathematical term.
<gilberth>
Odin-LAP: Right.
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<Odin-LAP>
Not to mention that using the standard functions must drive you up the wall.
<gilberth>
Odin-LAP: CLIM names drive me up the wall.
<gilberth>
Consider MAKE-TRANSLATION-TRANSFORMATION. First, it may not actually make a thing. Second, a translation is a transformation, no? Third, what is returned might not even be a translation proper, that is an object of the TRANSLATION class.
<ixelp>
Arcane Sentiment: If Scheme were like Scheme
<gilberth>
"Numbers would be portably mutable. Some operations would have destructive versions." What?
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<Mondenkind>
what? you don't like mutating numbers?
<Alfr>
Mondenkind, don't look so sad, just now e decided to be 3.
<gilberth>
Alfr: I still have a copy of that e number.
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<thuna`>
gilberth: Was that a deep or shallow copy?
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<gilberth>
An imperfect copy as my memory unfortunately is finite.
<thuna`>
gilberth: So is your e, now
<gilberth>
Doesn't bother me, at least it's mine and mine alone! And Alfr can't mess with it anymore.
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<Nilby>
in a forthcoming purely modified binary p-adic Lisp, mutable numbers are actually useful since most arithmetic can be tree edits and accretions. *works best with p-adic bignum enabled processors
<Renfield>
How do I convert a list of something like (:foo :bar :dud "haha") into ((foo :bar) (dud "haha")) ? That is, gather pairs of elements from the list, and lop off the : from the first item in each pair.
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<aeth>
good news and bad news... good news is that LOOP does its own destructuring, bad news in that it doesn't error on invalid input unlike destructuring-bind... soy ou have to use destructuring-bind even in a LOOP
<Renfield>
Oh destructuring. I knew I read about this elsewhere. Thanks I can research that. But how about lopping off a colon from a symbol? I know I haven't read about that yet.
<aeth>
something like this
<aeth>
,(loop :for l :on '(:foo :bar :baz :quux 42) :by #'cddr :collect (destructuring-bind (first second &rest tail) l (declare (ignore tail)) (list first second)))
<ixelp>
(loop :for l :on '(:foo :bar :baz :quux 42) :by #'cddr :collect (destructuring-bind (first second &rest tail) l (declare (ignore tail)) (list first second))) ERROR: (42) can't be destructured against the lambda list (FIRST SECOND &REST TAIL), because it does not contain at least 2 elements.
<aeth>
,(loop :for l :on '(:foo :bar :baz :quux) :by #'cddr :collect (destructuring-bind (first second &rest tail) l (declare (ignore tail)) (list first second)))
<ixelp>
(loop :for l :on '(:foo :bar :baz :quux) :by #'cddr :collect (destructuring-bind (first second &rest tail) l (declare (ignore tail)) (list first second))) => ((:FOO :BAR) (:BAZ :QUUX))
<aeth>
Notice how it only accepts even lists
<Renfield>
Yes, that should be what I give it.
<Renfield>
Just need to remove the colon from the first items in each pair.
<aeth>
as for the second part of your problem, you want to change the package
<aeth>
from keyword
<aeth>
that's something like this, although you may want to specify which package: ,(intern (symbol-name :foo))
<ixelp>
(intern (symbol-name :foo)) => FOO; NIL
<Renfield>
Okay, I'll read about that. Thanks a lot.
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<aeth>
you can also do (alexandria:plist-alist '(:foo 42 :bar 43)) => ((:foo . 42) (:bar . 43))
<aeth>
but then you'd have to iterate twice because it's a cons cell not a list and the first element isn't processed