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<
paulapatience >
Is it just me, or is
*default-pathname-defaults* initially set to #P"" on CCL?
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<
beach >
,*default-pathname-defaults*
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<
ixelp >
*default-pathname-defaults* => #P""
16:19
<
beach >
Looks that way.
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<
yitzi >
On ccl #P"" leaves host as :unspecific. Everything else is NIL.
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<
bike >
,(lisp-implementation-type) ,(lisp-implementation-version)
16:37
<
ixelp >
(lisp-implementation-type) => "Clozure Common Lisp", further (lisp-implementation-version) => "Version 1.11.5/v1.11.5 (LinuxARM32)"
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21:17
<
kevingal_ >
How can I load a file as a string without caring about the character encoding? I don't care if it's ASCII, UTF-8, whatever -- I just want an array of bytes. I then want to parse this "string" using esrap, hopefully that would work?
21:22
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<
ixelp >
Files and File I/O
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<
bike >
kevingal_: alexandria has read-file-into-byte-vector for this purpose.
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21:52
<
bike >
can't tell you if esrap will work, though.
21:56
<
kevingal_ >
Ah, perfect.
21:56
<
kevingal_ >
I did manage to load it into a byte vector based on the gigamonkeys stuff but I can't treat the resulting vector as a string, which isn't promising.
21:56
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21:57
<
bike >
yeah, i mean it is not a string. a string is just an array of characters.
21:57
<
bike >
i'm not sure i understand what parsing you can even do without knowledge of the encoding
21:58
<
aeth >
kevingal_: babel
21:58
<
aeth >
though if you don't know the encoding...
21:59
<
bike >
without the encoding you can't even determine where characters begin and end. of course if you restrict the encoding to like, ascii supersets that don't put ascii bytes in the middle of non ascii characters, you could do some stuff
22:01
<
kevingal_ >
It's for a bencoding encoder/decoder. All the parts that I need to read and treat as strings are basically restricted to ASCII, while some of the data is UTF-8/"just bytes" that I don't need to care about.
22:02
<
ixelp >
Storing UTF-8 Encoded Text with Strings - The Rust Programming Language
22:02
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22:03
<
younder >
I think Rust has one of the best implementations of Unicode
22:03
<
Odin- >
Short version: Text is more complicated than you think.
22:03
<
bike >
okay, so the actual data is ascii and then there's also byte strings with known lengths that you don't care about the contents of. i see.
22:03
<
bike >
still don't know if esrap in particular can deal with that but it's possible to parse somehow or another.
22:03
<
ixelp >
GitHub - cl-babel/babel: Babel is a charset encoding/decoding library, not unlike GNU libiconv, written in pure Common L [...]
22:04
<
aeth >
though it's a bit consing
22:04
<
kevingal_ >
bike: indeed. I was hoping that I could treat it as a string and the non-ASCII parts could be treated as "any old byte-sized character".
22:05
<
aeth >
to treat it as a string you convert the ascii encoding to a string
22:06
<
bike >
no, aeth, that would not work. the bytestrings are in an unknown and irrelevant encoding. you can't treat the whole thing as ascii.
22:06
<
kevingal_ >
Ya, if I try to read the whole file as ASCII then I get a decoding error.
22:06
<
Odin- >
Well, because it isn't ASCII.
22:07
<
bike >
you could decode the thing with some coding that maps every byte to exactly one character, i guess.
22:07
<
Odin- >
If you insist, you could try telling it it's ISO8859-1, but that might still do weird things.
22:07
<
bike >
would be a little wacky. ideally you could parse in terms of bytes but it doesn't look like esrap can do that./
22:07
<
ixelp >
Technical Introduction
22:07
<
Odin- >
But at least that way you can fairly easily map code point to byte...
22:08
<
aeth >
what I mean is, you can just do this on subparts of the array. (babel:octets-to-string (make-array 1 :element-type '(unsigned-byte 8) :initial-element #x42) :encoding :ascii)
22:08
<
aeth >
it takes start/end
22:08
<
aeth >
it will wind up consing up potentially a ton of strings depending on the format, though
22:08
<
bike >
yes but you don't know which subparts are ascii until you do the parse.
22:09
<
aeth >
bike: yes, and? You go through the file to see which range is safe and then feed that to :start :end
22:09
<
aeth >
and then repeat
22:09
<
bike >
the entire idea here is "hey, what if i make this a string and feed it to esrap to do the parsing"
22:09
<
bike >
having to parse it yourself does not help with that
22:09
<
younder >
ASCII is UTF8
22:10
<
bike >
younder, dropping these uncontextualized links and statements is not very helpful.
22:11
<
aeth >
bike: scanning for starts/ends doesn't really seem like much as far as parsing goes, at least imo
22:12
<
Odin- >
aeth: Might be there's chunks of printable ASCII in the byte blocks?
22:13
* Odin-
suddenly gets reminded of the arguments in 'Worse is Better'.
22:13
<
ixelp >
Chinese Notes
22:14
<
kevingal_ >
younder: Yeah, not sure what I'm supposed to be getting from these links, haha.
22:14
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aeth >
anyway, what I'm talking about is basically just repeated (position-if (lambda (x) (<= x 127)) sequence)
22:14
<
aeth >
or, actually, the reverse
22:14
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bike >
please look at the format
22:14
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younder >
I find it confounding to support all these encoding and directions but good luck beach
22:15
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kevingal_ >
I was able to load the data as a string with: (uiop:read-file-string "file/path" :external-format :iso-8859-1), and esrap parsing seems to have worked.
22:15
<
kevingal_ >
Thanks all!
22:15
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bike >
great. i would be careful about that though.
22:15
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Odin- >
kevingal_: I would not treat that as definitely working.
22:17
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younder >
My problem is there is three level of ligature. the byte, the composite byte and then three characters composing a Chinese character before rendering a glyph to the screen. I never really got that third level.
22:18
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bike >
is this related to kevingal's problem
22:18
<
younder >
Perhaps someone could explain it to me?
22:18
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22:19
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kevingal_ >
I was able to decode a file using ISO-8859-1 format, parse it using esrap, re-encode it, and get back the same data, so I'm satisfied for now.
22:20
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bike >
yeah, i'd just be worried about something not round tripping through iso-8859-1
22:20
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bike >
maybe it's a problem, maybe it's not, i dunno
22:21
<
bike >
it would be neat if esrap or something could parse sequences generally
22:22
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Odin- >
bike: I suggested 8859-1 specifically because it's a full 8-bit encoding that coincides exactly with the first 256 codepoints of Unicode, so it should have the least chance of causing roundtripping issues.
22:22
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Odin- >
Still wouldn't dare proclaim there aren't any.
22:24
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younder >
WTF! iso-latin-1 aka iso-9959-1 is trivial it is the first 256 bytes of unicode.
22:24
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bike >
Odin-: right.
22:25
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bike >
i say "i dunno" because computer handling of language scares me and i try to avoid it rather than because i am knowledgeable
22:25
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bike >
ideally we would all communicate in grunts and then it would not be an issue.
22:26
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aeth >
or we could just ask ChatGPT to assist us
22:27
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Odin- >
bike: We'd just end up with ASCII-grunters and EBCDIC-grunters.
22:27
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bike >
unless chatgpt is grunting at me i don't want to hear it.
22:28
<
Odin- >
Sometimes, sweeping things under the rug just brings you too close to the ceiling.
22:28
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22:34
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edgar-rft >
Neanderthal UTF-1 has only one character #\Ugh!
22:34
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Mondenkind >
no; it encodes a complete sequence of unicode code points, in unary
22:35
<
ixelp >
Encoding overview - Globalization | Microsoft Learn
22:35
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22:35
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younder >
finally something that worked for me
22:41
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22:42
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younder >
I'm starting to realize I am not the only one that finds Unicode implementation scary..
22:42
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bike >
you are not.
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