#commonlisp on 2023-11-26 — irc logs at libera.irclog.whitequark.org

2022-07-28 16:55 jackdaniel changed the topic of #commonlisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language | Wiki: <https://www.cliki.net> | IRC Logs: <https://irclog.tymoon.eu/libera/%23commonlisp> | Cookbook: <https://lispcookbook.github.io/cl-cookbook> | Pastebin: <https://plaster.tymoon.eu/>

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13:09 <dnhester26> Hi everyone, I've been working on producing a CL Technical Reference which is new version of the spec dpANS3r as a website that everyone will be able to contribute to with explanations and examples. Here's a blog post detailing the state of the project https://lisp-docs.github.io/cl-language-reference/blog/2023-11-26-status

13:10 <dnhester26> And this is just a sample page: https://lisp-docs.github.io/cl-language-reference/docs/chap-1/b-e-definitions#142-error-terminology

13:17 <Guest49> is it just me or is monospace font not used for code

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13:17 <Guest49> (find ’a ’(a b . c)) - what are these single quotes?

13:18 <dnhester26> Guest49 are you taking about the project? The code sections need to be wrapped up in ```lisp ```

13:18 <dnhester26> it's one of the TODO items

13:18 <dnhester26> This is a pre 1.0 draft

13:19 <dnhester26> However, it's ready for contributions that are not editing the main content, AKA adding examples or explantions

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13:25 <Guest49> so its yet another project aiming to replace the spec? im not sure if mixing community contributed stuff with something that's supposed to be rigid and well thought out is a good idea

13:40 <scymtym> dnhester26: i think it would be good for https://github.com/lisp-docs/cl-language-reference/blob/develop/README.md to explain which specification sources are used and how they are processed

13:42 <dnhester26> scymtym yeah, I have a separate project, will add it now...

13:42 <dnhester26> Give me a bit and I'll send you a new message

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13:53 <beach> Guest49: It is not meant to replace the existing versions of the standard. It is meant to be a language reference.

13:54 <beach> Guest49: It is just that there is a lot of text in the dpANS that can be reused, perhaps with minor modifications, in such a reference.

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14:02 <Guest49> `which is new version of the spec dpANS3r as a website' sounds very misleading to me then

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14:22 <beach> Guest49: The name of the repository is cl-language-reference.

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15:11 <green_> Anyone aware of a CL library to filter a stream? I'm looking for something I can use to replace secret text with "***" in *standard-output*.

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15:20 <Shinmera> how would that work if there's a partial match?

15:21 <Shinmera> if the thing to replace is "abc123" and the stream currently ends with "abc" should it just not output that?

15:21 <Shinmera> it sounds like a recipe for confusion

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15:35 <jcowan> Questions about syntax:

15:36 <jcowan> 1) Does any implementation actually define ~?

15:37 <jcowan> 2) Is it correct to interpret "undefined" (but not "undefined*") in Figure 2.19 as meaning "reserved to the implementer"?

15:38 <jcowan> (That table summarizes sharpsign constructions.)

15:38 <jcowan> 3) Does any implementation actually define any of these sharpsign macros?

15:38 <jcowan> (end of questions)

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15:42 <jcowan> well

15:43 <jcowan> ω) Does anyone care about extensible syntax any more?

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15:47 <beach> I can answer the last question, if I understand it right. For printing and reading object graphs, like abstract syntax trees or music scores, I define the macro character [ so that [ <name> :initarg1 value1 ... :initargn valuen] to have the effect of (make-instance '<name> :initarg1 value1 ... :initargn valuen]

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15:48 <beach> It works great in combination with #n= and #n# so that sharing and cyclic structures are preserved.

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16:07 <Shinmera> iirc ccl and abcl define additional macros for their specific FFIs

16:08 <Shinmera> unfortunately I forget which chars they allocate :(

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16:13 <dnhester26> scymtym please take a look now https://github.com/lisp-docs/cl-language-reference/blob/develop/README.md

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17:17 <agm> jcowan: the characters marked as "undefined*" are explicitly reserved to the user, so those marked as "undefined" can only mean "free to use for the implementer or the user"

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17:23 <aeth> but the real question is which ones are used in practice

17:23 <aeth> because most aren't undefined*

17:24 <aeth> and you don't want to use the ones that are undefined (no-star) that actually see use

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17:52 <jcowan> aeth: exactly

17:52 <jcowan> The Scheme community believes that sharpsign constructions are scarce, and I am trying to show that they are Really Not.

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17:59 <jcowan> Looks like ABCL uses #n"...", where n is a magic cookie saying what to do with it

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18:09 <yitzi> I wrote a quick script to look based on get-dispatch-macro-character. https://plaster.tymoon.eu/view/4019

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18:10 <yitzi> jcowan: ^

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21:53 <scymtym> dnhester26: that's helpful, thanks

21:53 <dnhester26> any time

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