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<modula>
hi. is it possible to "un-import" a symbol from a package that has been :use'd? i want to :use a package, but selectively override some of the imported functions, without erasing them from the package i am :use-ing. i tried (unintern 'used-package:sym :using-package) and a few variations of that, but it doesn't seem to work; the function still exists and remains callable in my package, and
<modula>
redefining it still overwrites the definition in the package i'm using.
<moon-child>
(import (loop for x being the external-symbols of other-package unless (member x exclusion-list) collect x)) perhaps
<edgar-rft>
you can also SHADOW symbols in the current package
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<bike>
modula: i think you want shadowing.
<modula>
i must just be inadvertently doing something weird in my code because shadowing doesn't seem to help either. i will have to investigate further. thank you to all three of you!
<bike>
specifically what you'd be doing is shadowing "SYM" in using-package
<modula>
yeah, (shadow "SYM" :using-package) is what i tried
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<bike>
that'll make it so that using-package::sym is its own symbol, independent of used-package::sym
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<beach>
modula: It is more common these days to not :USE most packages.
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<modula>
yes, i have seen that advice around a lot. in this case i control both packages and as far as i can tell it's the easiest way to do the things i'm trying to do. but if i can't figure out a solution to my issue i will see if the suggestion above to import every symbol will work
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<aeth>
I usually just import-from but that is only convenient up to a point
<aeth>
some people use package-local-nicknames
<beach>
I find it convenient when I read code written by someone else (or by me some time ago) to immediately see where a symbol comes from.
<moon-child>
ideally the environment would supply or suppress such information on demand, making the difference inconsequential--the problem is purely presentation, which should be user-configurable. I don't know if emacs/clime can be easily configured to do that, though
<beach>
You are right that such support belongs in the development environment. But I don't see it happening with our current preferred tools.
<beach>
If the editor (say) would give a slightly different color to symbols from different packages, and I could (say) mouse over a symbol and get its package, then there would be no need for package prefixes.
<modula>
the real problem with use-ing packages that i've heard is that it will eventually necessitate popular packages to ossify, making it unsafe for them to export new symbols lest they risk causing symbol conflicts for their dependents. for example it would be risky if Alexandria decided to export any new symbols
<beach>
Indeed.
<moon-child>
beach: yeah
<aeth>
right
<moon-child>
(I mean, there would still be the issue of typing them, but that should still be user-configurable and handled by the environment)
<aeth>
so never use packages (except in other packages within the same (mega)repo) because then the maintainers will have to constantly keep the API stable
<aeth>
and as long as that's the common advice, it's on you if it breaks
<aeth>
would kind of be nice if DEFPACKAGE could be versioned, though
<aeth>
other than the hack alexandria uses of just using .s at the end
<moon-child>
what would that enable that (defpackage #:mypackage-v2 ...) can't do?
<aeth>
makes tools aware of it
<moon-child>
what do tools want to know?
<aeth>
because it could be -v2 or .2 or .v2 or -2 or anything else
<aeth>
moon-child: would allow an automated way to update the version of the package that you depend on
<moon-child>
but what does it benefit a tool to know what one package is 'another version of' another?
<aeth>
you could iterate through all versions above the one you have until there's a conflict, if there is one
<moon-child>
why do I want to update the version automatically? The only reason for making such a change is that you broke the interface
<aeth>
and update your dependency from v2 to v28 or whatever
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<beach>
It seems to me that the easiest improvement would be to work on the environment, rather than trying to establish another convention shared by most implementations.
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<ixelp>
Shinmera: "That's more like it. #indiedev #gamedev" - TyNET
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<dnhester26>
Hi, if I have a given flexi-stream and I would like to get a sequence from it, how can I do that?
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<Brucio-61>
assuming the stream is an in-memory output stream, FLEXI-STREAMS:GET-OUTPUT-STREAM-SEQUENCE should do that
<dnhester26>
Thanks!
<dnhester26>
Brucio-61 I'm getting this type: #<FLEXI-STREAMS:FLEXI-INPUT-STREAM {10017D88E3}> which is giving me an error
<dnhester26>
I'm confused about input and output. Is input what is read into lisp and is output what I can output into the file? or is it the othwer way around?
<dnhester26>
I'm basically trying to read a file and return a sequence
<Brucio-61>
if i understand correctly, you don't need flexi-streams for what you want. (open FILENAME :direction :input :element-type '(unsigned-byte 8)) should give you a binary input stream
<Brucio-61>
you can use READ-BYTE and READ-SEQUENCE to read from such a stream (and WITH-OPEN-FILE instead of OPEN may be appropriate for opening and closing)
<dnhester26>
I did that, then tried using (read) on that output and got an error. I am using some library that by calling a method it returns a flexi-stream, it's easier than having to parse the pathnames, but either way I'm just trying to get a sequence from it
<dnhester26>
read-byte gave me a simple-type-error
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<Brucio-61>
does the type error mention the expected and actual types? from your description, i would expect the flexi-stream to be a binary input stream. such a stream should support READ-BYTE
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<dnhester26>
Hi Brucio-61 sorry for the late reply, just came back. Nope, the error doesn't tell me the expected and actual types when I tried to do read-byte. However, in the function I need it, I need to have a SEQUENCE type and I have instead a flexi-stream type
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<dnhester26>
Brucio-61 found what I needed I think: `(alexandria:read-stream-content-into-byte-vector (mito-attachment:get-object *file1*))`
<dnhester26>
It's this alexandria function
<dnhester26>
Th read-byte worked, not with (open) but with the flexi-stream
<ixelp>
Convert a flexi-stream containing a vector of octets to a utf-8 string in common lisp - Stack Overflow
<dnhester26>
Thanks for the help!
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<moon-child>
Shinmera: kandria 2 in 3d??
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<Shinmera>
there will never be a kandria 2
<Shinmera>
but the next game is in 3d, yes
<skeemer>
hello everyone i was wondering if there was something kind of unique to common lisp that puts it apart from other lisps/schemes, for example when it comes to "interactivity" is there some added value that common lisp gives wrt e.g., racket or clojure?
<Shinmera>
CLOS
<Shinmera>
restarts
<beach>
skeemer: You can't really compare Common Lisp to Racket or Clojure. Common Lisp is a language standard established by an independent standardization organization. That is not the case for the others.
<skeemer>
beach: ok let's say then sbcl
<beach>
skeemer: Nah, I think it is of utmost importance to use a language that has an independent standard.
<beach>
skeemer: To elaborate on the CLOS answer, Common Lisp supports interactive redefinition of classes with automatic updates of existing class instances.
<Shinmera>
and changing the class of instances
<beach>
... and that.
<beach>
skeemer: And to elaborate on the "restarts" answer, the Common Lisp condition system is very different from most exception systems around, in that it does not unwind the stack when a condition is signaled, making it possible for the signaling code to give client code the option to continue execution with possibly several options.
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<Shinmera>
the impact of either of those features really can't be understood in a vacuum though, you have to use them to get it, and probably use them for quite a while.
<beach>
In fact, the Common Lisp condition system was inspired (indirectly?) by that of Multics PL/I, which was an excellent interactive system despite using a static language. Granted, it was less static, given the Multics interactive support.
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<skeemer>
beach: so common lisp is still alive we can say as a language
<beach>
I don't understand.
<skeemer>
i mean although alternatives with a lisp like syntax come up like clojure and so on... there is still work in using lisp, i mean it is not something like cobol
<skeemer>
so to say
<beach>
Sure.
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<beach>
skeemer: The software industry, and more generally the software domain, is extremely fad driven and keeps searching for new and hopefully better things, while stubbornly refusing to acknowledge that things already exist that are better than what they are currently using.
<beach>
skeemer: This is clearly a lack of training and education. And good training and education is hard to find.
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<skeemer>
how can i get good training and education in lisp then ?
<beach>
The only option I can see is to read books and get help here and in #clschool.
<beach>
... and of course to work some projects.
<skeemer>
beach which books?
<beach>
The usual ones: PCL, PAIP, Keene's book, On Lisp.
<beach>
That should keep you busy for quite a while.
<beach>
Oh, and phoe's book, of course.
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<skeemer>
What is keene's book?
<skeemer>
you don't suggest SICP then ?
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