masinter has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
habamax has quit [Quit: ERC 5.5.0.29.1 (IRC client for GNU Emacs 29.1.90)]
Lycurgus has joined #commonlisp
t4000 has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
dcb has quit [Quit: MSN Messenger 4.1.1]
mgl has joined #commonlisp
igemnace has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
zoig has joined #commonlisp
King_julian has joined #commonlisp
Pixel_Outlaw has quit [Quit: Leaving]
igemnace has joined #commonlisp
notzmv has joined #commonlisp
dino_tutter has joined #commonlisp
<jdz>
BrokenCog: Pretty sure you mean <<EOF...EOF for heredoc, since that actually allows to supply a file for redirection purposes inside the script itself; <(...) is just another file redirection mechanism, and the redirected content is not actually included in the script file.
<jdz>
NotThatRPG_away: Using a string input stream as process input works with both sb-ext:run-program and uiop:run-program (on SBCL).
danse-nr3 has joined #commonlisp
donleo has joined #commonlisp
danse-nr3 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
danse-nr3 has joined #commonlisp
hayley has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
dnhester26 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
dnhester26 has joined #commonlisp
hayley has joined #commonlisp
bendersteed has joined #commonlisp
habamax has joined #commonlisp
danse-nr3 has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
King_julian has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
danse-nr3 has joined #commonlisp
Lord_of_Life has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
Lord_of_Life has joined #commonlisp
attila_lendvai has joined #commonlisp
dajole has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
inline has quit [Quit: Leaving]
inline has joined #commonlisp
jonatack has quit [Quit: WeeChat 4.1.1]
King_julian has joined #commonlisp
dnhester26 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
habamax has quit [Quit: ERC 5.5.0.29.1 (IRC client for GNU Emacs 29.1.90)]
jmdaemon has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
varjag has joined #commonlisp
avocadoist has joined #commonlisp
younder has joined #commonlisp
King_julian has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
CarbonWriter has joined #commonlisp
dnhester26 has joined #commonlisp
CarbonWriter has quit [Client Quit]
zetef has joined #commonlisp
random-nick has joined #commonlisp
danse-nr3 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
danse-nr3 has joined #commonlisp
bendersteed has quit [Quit: bendersteed]
King_julian has joined #commonlisp
bendersteed has joined #commonlisp
avocadoist has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
avocadoist has joined #commonlisp
doyougnu- has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
doyougnu has joined #commonlisp
doyougnu has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
<Gleefre>
Is there some implementation specific analogue for c++20's [[likely]] / [[unlikely]] (or gcc's __builting_expect)? (IIUC those allow to optimize branching in rare cases where it is needed)
dnhester26 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
zoig has quit [Quit: Client closed]
zetef has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
thollief has joined #commonlisp
cstml has joined #commonlisp
Gleefre has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
dnhester26 has joined #commonlisp
puke has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
dnhester26 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
danse-nr3 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
puke has joined #commonlisp
puke has quit [Max SendQ exceeded]
puke has joined #commonlisp
szkl has joined #commonlisp
danse-nr3 has joined #commonlisp
dnhester26 has joined #commonlisp
danse-nr3 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
pyooque has joined #commonlisp
puke is now known as Guest4236
Guest4236 has quit [Killed (iridium.libera.chat (Nickname regained by services))]
pyooque is now known as puke
dnhester26 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
dnhester26 has joined #commonlisp
Gleefre has joined #commonlisp
varjag has quit [Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 27.1)]
d4ryus has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
tyson2 has joined #commonlisp
King_julian has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
dinomug has joined #commonlisp
bendersteed has quit [Quit: bendersteed]
bendersteed has joined #commonlisp
d4ryus has joined #commonlisp
dino_tutter has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
yitzi has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
yitzi has joined #commonlisp
danse-nr3 has joined #commonlisp
Gleefre has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
Gleefre has joined #commonlisp
waleee has joined #commonlisp
CarbonWriter has joined #commonlisp
waleee has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
zxcvz has joined #commonlisp
t4000 has joined #commonlisp
doyougnu has joined #commonlisp
rtypo has joined #commonlisp
igemnace has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
zetef has joined #commonlisp
dnhester26 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<NotThatRPG_away>
jdz: Thanks!
igemnace has joined #commonlisp
kagevf has quit [Quit: leaving]
CarbonWriter has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
jfh_ has quit [Quit: leaving]
t4000 has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
t4000 has joined #commonlisp
jmdaemon has joined #commonlisp
zxcvz has quit [Quit: zxcvz]
zetef has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
CarbonWriter has joined #commonlisp
CarbonWriter has quit [Client Quit]
dinomug has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
igemnace has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
dino_tutter has joined #commonlisp
zetef has joined #commonlisp
dnhester26 has joined #commonlisp
skeemer_ has joined #commonlisp
skeemer_ is now known as skeemer
skeemer has quit [Client Quit]
skeemer has joined #commonlisp
dnhester26 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
zetef has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
<Shinmera>
Gleefre: no
dnhester26 has joined #commonlisp
mgl has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
amb007 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
amb007 has joined #commonlisp
<Gleefre>
I see, thanks!
dcb has joined #commonlisp
zoig has joined #commonlisp
danse-nr3 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
danse-nr3 has joined #commonlisp
zoig has quit [Client Quit]
szkl has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
danse-nr3 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
mgl has joined #commonlisp
<Shinmera>
Also I would be very surprised if that's an optimisation that would gain you much over many other things one usually has to worry about in Lisp
mariari has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
varjag has joined #commonlisp
mgl has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
<aeth>
Gleefre: there's a lot of low hanging fruit in every implementation, especially the ones that aren't SBCL
<aeth>
C++ has gotten to the point where they're really scraping the barrel for a few percent here and there (and the culture of the language encourages useless micro-optimizations more, too)
tyson2 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<bike>
even in C/C++ the thorough branch prediction advice is to actually run the program to get some branch probabilities, rather than having the programmer guess where "unlikely" is helpful
mariari has joined #commonlisp
Gleefre has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
Gleefre has joined #commonlisp
danza has joined #commonlisp
Gleefre has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
Gleefre has joined #commonlisp
dnhester26 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
tyson2 has joined #commonlisp
inline has quit [Quit: Leaving]
certainty has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
mgl has joined #commonlisp
inline has joined #commonlisp
lucasta has joined #commonlisp
bendersteed has quit [Quit: bendersteed]
random-nick has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
ec has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
ec has joined #commonlisp
certainty has joined #commonlisp
random-nick has joined #commonlisp
certainty has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
_cymew_ has joined #commonlisp
<Shinmera>
yeah, I am very "eyebrows raised" at this being a language feature, since branch prediction is processor dependent
thollief has quit [Quit: Leaving]
<Shinmera>
and state dependent
_cymew_ has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
Gleefre has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
Gleefre has joined #commonlisp
<Mondenkind>
so what?
yitzi has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
certainty has joined #commonlisp
certainty has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
<Shinmera>
so it's entirely unportable anyway, what's the point of it being standardised rather than a compiler thing
dnhester26 has joined #commonlisp
dnhester26 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
dnhester26 has joined #commonlisp
danza has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
<Mondenkind>
in what sense is it unportable?
<Mondenkind>
policy-wise, it's a completely meaningless hint
<Shinmera>
the desired outcome won't replicate to another compiler, so why bother having it be anything but a compiler-specific internal hint
<Mondenkind>
nor will (declare (optimize (speed 3)))
<Mondenkind>
(tbf I think that optimization qualities are kinda stupid BUT)
<Shinmera>
having the branch flag on another compiler may make things perform worse
<Shinmera>
I don't think optimize speed makes things worse on another lisp implementation
<aeth>
(speed 3) is kind of important because it says "make my compilation time slower, I don't care"
<aeth>
though once compilers start getting really, really, really optimzing, people might start caring and realize they overdid it
<aeth>
though if you set both compilation-speed and speed to 3, things get a bit confusing. Or everything at 3 since then you can't make any tradeoff at all
<Mondenkind>
Shinmera: performance is never portable. I don't think that means it's a bad thing to have a portable specification for that kind of a declarative hint
<Mondenkind>
aeth: 'really, really, really optimizing' compiler should be iterative. So it delivers a slow result right away and then a fast one after a while
<Shinmera>
meh.
<aeth>
Mondenkind: need to add some more labels... should be ((iterative 3) (tco 3) (debug 3)) to do it your way and to make sure (debug 3) doesn't turn off the tail-call optimization that some recursive functions might rely on
<aeth>
for instance
waleee has joined #commonlisp
<Mondenkind>
:(
<Shinmera>
Imo there should be (optimize (unsafe)). let the compiler have a bit of fun some of these days
<Mondenkind>
(safety 0)?
<aeth>
yeah that's just (safety 0)
<Shinmera>
no no, extra unsafety
<aeth>
(safety -1)
<aeth>
Mondenkind: by "iterative" do you mean JIT?
<aeth>
absolutely would make sense to have a 0 or 3 there
mgl has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
<aeth>
(and if not, good news! another thing we could add in the big list of tradeoffs)
<aeth>
I suppose JIT would mean it uses runtime information to optimize it, but as described without context, you could just compile a slow version for fast compilation speed (instant result) and then recompile it (while the program is running) to do more optimizations without having the user wait
<aeth>
which isn't quite JIT
<Mondenkind>
by 'iterative' I mean what I said I mean above
<bike>
what you said isn't very specific. if you call compile, does it return a lightly optimized function right away, which is then compiled with more optimizations in the background and replaced at some future point?
gty has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<Mondenkind>
I was being intentionally non specific
<Mondenkind>
optimisation is limited by computational resources. So in general, it seems to me that a sophisticiated optimiser should be designed so it can do a better job the more resources you give it
<aeth>
should also have the compiler be able to be replaced at runtime without restarting the image
<aeth>
so you can constantly upgrade
<Mondenkind>
that would be good
<aeth>
just C-c C-c cl:compile
<Mondenkind>
sbcl has some annoying limitations there
<aeth>
SBCL is full of (SBCL semantics, i.e. no recompile) structs
<Mondenkind>
that too
<Mondenkind>
but it also iirc freezes some stuff specifically at bootstrap time
certainty has joined #commonlisp
certainty has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
tyson2 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
habamax has joined #commonlisp
alfplayer_ has joined #commonlisp
alfplayer_ has quit [Excess Flood]
alfplayer_ has joined #commonlisp
alfplayer_ has quit [Excess Flood]
alfplayer_ has joined #commonlisp
alfplayer_ has quit [Excess Flood]
alfplayer_ has joined #commonlisp
alfplayer_ has quit [Excess Flood]
alfplayer has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
lucasta has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
lucasta has joined #commonlisp
chomwitt has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
pve has quit [Quit: leaving]
alfplayer_ has joined #commonlisp
alfplayer_ has quit [Excess Flood]
notzmv has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
lucerne has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
lucerne has joined #commonlisp
shka has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
alfplayer_ has joined #commonlisp
alfplayer_ has quit [Excess Flood]
alfplayer_ has joined #commonlisp
alfplayer_ has quit [Excess Flood]
alfplayer_ has joined #commonlisp
alfplayer_ has quit [Excess Flood]
reb has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
danlitt has joined #commonlisp
tyson2 has joined #commonlisp
alfplayer_ has joined #commonlisp
alfplayer_ has quit [Excess Flood]
attila_lendvai has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
certainty has joined #commonlisp
certainty has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
random-nick has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
alfplayer_ has joined #commonlisp
alfplayer_ has quit [Excess Flood]
alfplayer_ has joined #commonlisp
lucasta has quit [Quit: Leaving]
tibfulv has quit [Remote host closed the connection]