<beach>
Most people here would recommend against it.
<dnhester26>
beach thanks for the answer. Could you please explain why?
<aeth>
fancy, core macros lose readers because people may be unfamiliar with it
<aeth>
and this is coming from someone who replaced DEFUN (yes, it loses readers)
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<dnhester26>
aeth thanks
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<larix1>
Does anyone know how to send a case-sensitive HTTP response header with a Lack server?
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<liminality>
hey all. is there any way in SBCL to grab the name of a clos instance? eg i make an instance of 'square, it returns the instance #<SQUARE {some-identifier}>. is there a way to grab the {some-identifier} when i have the actual instance itself?
<yitzi>
So for sbcl it is sb-kernel:get-lisp-obj-address
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<Shinmera>
liminality: instances have no names
<Shinmera>
and that ID sbcl includes can change over time
<liminality>
aaah okay. thanks everyone! also, big fan of your work, Shinmera.
<Shinmera>
Thanks
<Shinmera>
If you want a unique name you could do something like a global counter that gets increased for every instance and put into a slot
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<Shinmera>
If you just want a "unique for right now" ID, you can use sxhash
<liminality>
well. i'm trying to serialise functions, and i figured i could grab the names of any functions i come across and save those function-names, then on load just return #'func-name. for lambdas, i just made a macro to save the lambda form itself in a hashtable that i'll use to save and reconstruct the lambda forms from.
<Shinmera>
oh dear
<Shinmera>
what got you to wanting to save functions?
<liminality>
boss wants our program to be able to save/load state, though a lot of the objects have slots filled with functions
<Shinmera>
fill the slots with symbols, instead
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<liminality>
d/c'd for a minute there, whoops
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<Shinmera>
you cannot serialise state, in general. you can't serialise an open file stream, for instance. or a thread. or many, many other things
<Shinmera>
so serialising functions is also impossible, because they can contain references to other impossible to serialise things
<Shinmera>
just force the slots to contain function names rather than function objects
<Shinmera>
that'll let you serialise the objects, and avoid all the issues associated with trying to serialise arbitrary function objects
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<liminality>
ah that... yes! that should work!
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<dnhester26>
in asdf if I have some files src/dir/a.lisp, src/dir/b.lisp, and src/c.lisp. I want to first load a.lisp, then c.lisp, then b.lisp which depends on both a.lisp and c.lisp, How can I do this? Declaring a (:module ) twice I think fails
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<beach>
dnhester26: Did you try :DEPENDS-ON in the :FILE entry?
<dnhester26>
beach nope, that will skip the serial dependency?
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<beach>
Well, :SERIAL T is like putting a :DEPENDS-ON on each :FILE where it depends on the previous one, so I don't think you want to use both.
<beach>
But I don't structure my ASDF files this way, so I am not sure what you are doing.
<dnhester26>
I'm using seria t, then wanted to try loading from the same folder twice, is that possible? Is that declaring (:module "dir" :components (:file))?
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<beach>
I don't know. Sorry. Maybe someone else does.
<dnhester26>
Oh, solved the problem, didn't realize I can just declare (:file "dir/b.lisp") without having to declare it inside of a (:module)
<larix1>
ah yeah i recently had a similar naming issue, having a (:file "thing") and (:module "thing" ...)
<larix1>
weirdly you cant have both thing.lisp and thing/
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<jcowan>
I have always considered this a copout, and especially in Lisp of all languages
<mfiano>
:SERIAL T is not transitive, FYI
<jcowan>
because you can never serialize a function does not mean that you should be forbidden from serializing every function.
<jcowan>
you can serialize lists, but you can't serialize every list, by the same token
<mfiano>
The maintainers turned down my request to change the misleading/inconsistent behavior because it's so old, a couple years ago. You must re-specifical :SERIAL for each hierarchical level.
<mfiano>
re-specify maybe
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<larix1>
i wish i could marry common lisp
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<bjorkintosh>
larix1, you can. just pick a person to marry and secretly call them common lisp in your head.
<bjorkintosh>
instead of using their wrestling name, for instance.
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<Equill>
I now have questions, for which I probably don't want answers.
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<beach>
Hmm.
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<edgar-rft>
hidden markov model?
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* edgar-rft
wants tax benefits for all his MAKE-INSTANCE children
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<jcowan>
Equill: Well, give us your questions. Good questions often spawn interesting discussions (can't tax benefits on them either, but they are fun)
<larix1>
hard to find women willing to change their legal name to "common lisp larix"
<Equill>
jcowan: They're about bjorkintosh and their spouse's wrestling name.
<Equill>
larix1: You could lower the challenge level, and just seek out somebody whose initials are CL.
<jcowan>
larix1: Change your surname to "Common-Lisp" first, and it may be easier.
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<jcowan>
When I got married several of our friends were shocked that Gale was going to change her name to Cowan. She had kept her previous married name because at the time she didn't have the extra $50 to resume her maiden name, and her view was that it would be dumb to be named for one man and married to another.
<Equill>
I can't fault her reasoning.
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<jcowan>
Nor could I
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<jcowan>
Most of us are named for some man or other, most of the time
<bjorkintosh>
familial namespacing to ensure support
<bjorkintosh>
One man historically did change his last name to his daughter's first name.
<bjorkintosh>
Jellinek-Mercedes.
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<Equill>
Interesting. I've known of a few men taking their wife's name, and of a Lisper and his wife who (IIRC) both changed their surnames to a third name.
<bjorkintosh>
it's the only case I've heard of. the little car brand named after his daughter that he sponsored became too famous to ignore.
<jcowan>
Roman women didn't have real names at all, just their clan name with a feminine ending, or sometimes an ordinal number (Tertia, Quarta, etc.)
<bjorkintosh>
interesting. but they had first names, surely?
<edgar-rft>
I'm quite sure that there's a country somewhere with laws weird enough so that one could legally marry Common Lisp.
<Equill>
Well, Japan did allow that one guy to marry a hologram.
<Alfr>
edgar-rft, do they prepend their surnames?
<Equill>
Or is it a sorted merge?
<BrokenCog>
declare CL anti-Gay and I'm sure Nigeria and Alabama will allow it.
<Alfr>
Equill, how should I know? But I'm wondering whether they would be named Common or Lisp.
<Equill>
Solution: one changes their surname to Common, and the other to Lisp. On marrying, they both take the hyphenated version.
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<jcowan>
bjorkintosh: No, they really didn't. A daughter of the Julii would be Julilla until another daughter wsa born, and then she'd become Julia and the new girl would be Julilla
<jcowan>
For the same reason that in the U.S. the names of slaves didn't appear in the census: they weren't *names*, just nicknames with no official standing.
<bjorkintosh>
hmm. variable names
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<Equill>
Technically, all names are variable. The marriage-related changes discussed earlier are examples of assigning a new value.
<Equill>
Are the mods asleep? Normally we'd have been told to move this to the cafe by now.
<Shinmera>
I considered doing so a while back but was too tired to get into the inevitable back and forth about 'but mom why can't we be off topic here :('
<Shinmera>
anyway pack it up kids
<Equill>
Packing it up. Time to be AFK for the evening anyway.
<edgar-rft>
I'd say that marrying a Common Lisp is not really common.
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<BrokenCog>
I'm late to the party ... but in LQuery how do I use $ functoin to get at input forms? I can get LI elemetns, etc
<Shinmera>
($ "input") or what do you mkean
<Shinmera>
*mean
<BrokenCog>
hmmm that;s what I did, but don't get any results. I know the page has an input field with id="username", but ($) isn't returning it.
<aeth>
either the library gives you a way to see the long-form (all four contents) or you'd have to manually call the four accessor methods to see what's going on
<bike>
it looks like $ is the main thing here
<bike>
but you can do like, (serialize the-thing) maybe
<Inline>
maybe you have a dohash around....
<aeth>
as for the hash table, you can iterate through it.
<Inline>
to iter throu hashtables....
<Inline>
if not you can find some on the internet even
<aeth>
it wouldn't be hard to write a long-form print that prints the hash-table of the attributes iteratively, but the library may already provide something like that now that you know what to look for
<bike>
i mean, what do you actually want to do with the object.
<aeth>
bike: presumably at this point BrokenCog wants to inspect it at the REPL
<aeth>
which means printing a hash table, mostly
<BrokenCog>
I'm trying to set the input form to post back to the server.
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<bike>
sounds like you'll need to understand the lquery docs
<BrokenCog>
yeah.
<BrokenCog>
lots of little mini examples without much explanation.
<BrokenCog>
I'm sure it's adequate for someone knows DOM.
<bike>
or jquery
<Inline>
is that sqlite database ?
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