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<jcowan>
I know there were CLtL1 implementations. Were there any CLtL2 implementations (other than as transient stages)? Names, dates?
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<randomperson132>
I am a bit confused on how the workflow works in Common Lisp. I am used to write my code in a file, and then compile/run it and check its output. But from what I gather, people instead heavily use the REPL. But then how do I get code that I write in the REPL into a file? (e.g., after a long session of experimenting)
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<beach>
randomperson132: I use the REPL only to execute previously created code.
<beach>
I create the code in a buffer associated with a file, and then either load everything with ASDF or I click on C-c C-c to execute an individual definition in the buffer.
<larix1>
also its harder to get all the editing goodies int comint-mode
<randomperson132>
I was trying the latter, but it doesn't seem to quite work out. First, I downloaded and loaded packages.lisp and pathnames.lisp from practical common. Then, in a new file I wrote
<randomperson132>
But when I now use C-c C-c, it says that the package is not loaded. However, if I list all packages, it is loaded. Not entirely sure what's going wrong here.
<beach>
You may be confusing packages and systems.
<beach>
Packages are not loaded. They are created.
<randomperson132>
Hm, so what is the correct procedure for the defpackage above not to fail?
<beach>
You should probably load the system for pathnames. Then it will create a package for you, but you need to figure out what the name of that package is.
<beach>
It may not be the same as that of the system.
<randomperson132>
Systems were not mentioned anywhere in the book; that's a bit strange
<beach>
If the book uses ASDF, it has a file containing an defsystem form.
<beach>
In a file that ends with .asd.
<randomperson132>
Ah, the repo indeed has such a file. But the book itself says that it is possible to simply load the packages.lisp files and just mentions ASDF in passing
<beach>
You can probably do that then. The name of the package will be in that file.
<randomperson132>
Yeah, I did do that; but it's not really working out. If I do (LIST-ALL-PACKAGES), it is there. But if I run the above defpackage using C-c C-c, it says that the name does not designate any package.
<beach>
It should work. You must be doing something strange.
<randomperson132>
:(
<randomperson132>
I loaded the files using C-c C-l if that matters.
<beach>
It shouldn't matter.
<beach>
Is the defpackage form in an editor buffer?
<randomperson132>
Yes
<beach>
If so, does that buffer have an in-package form at the beginning?
<randomperson132>
No, it doesn't. Does that matter?
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<beach>
It could. Then the code in that buffer belongs to some default package.
<beach>
Can you paste the error message to say plaster.tymoon.eu?
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<randomperson132>
I've read through PCL up to chapter 23 (i.e., everything before the ~9 chapters of practicals). Instead of reading someone else do programming like that, I would rather do something myself. Sadly I am at the point that I keep finding myself after going through a programming language book/course: What *should* I be programming?
<randomperson132>
Anyone else have that experience? If yes, any wise words?
<Shinmera>
find something to be angry about
<Shinmera>
or annoyed, that works too
<randomperson132>
I don't know how programming in CL can fix my gripes about how (some) teaching is done at ETH Zurich :P
<Shinmera>
oh, you're at ETHZ? my condolences
<Shinmera>
I fixed most of my gripes with that by ignoring them and programming lisp during the lectures and mandatory study sessions
<Shinmera>
very productive time, for everything but the degree
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<randomperson132>
At least we don't have mandatory study sessions. But I find it quite impressive how pretty much everyone thinks I am insane for my interest in Lisp
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<Shinmera>
well, I mean, I guess they usually weren't literally mandatory but you were expected to attend the sessions with the TA
<Shinmera>
I doubt that's changed
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<Shinmera>
But yeah, I tried unsuccessfully to do my BSC in Lisp.
<Shinmera>
*BSC Thesis
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<Shinmera>
Is Timothy Roscoe still at ETH?
<randomperson132>
Oh yeah absolutely
<randomperson132>
Still teaching SPCA as well :P
<Shinmera>
Ah, nice. He's a really cool dude
<Shinmera>
I did my thesis with his group. It wasn't what I would have liked, but everyone was super friendly and nice
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<randomperson132>
That lines up with what I've heard about his group from colleagues
<Shinmera>
Anyway if you ever wanna vent about ETH I'd be up for grabbing a coffee somewhere lmao
<randomperson132>
That sounds great!
<Shinmera>
Oh and if you're really struggling I can highly recommend scheduling a session with the study counsellor / psychologist. She was super nice and supportive when I was trying to figure out if I should drop out (I did).
<randomperson132>
I think pretty much most of my colleagues have either scheduled such a session (including me), or would probably benefit from it
<Shinmera>
heh
<randomperson132>
Not sure whether that's common for universities in general though
<Shinmera>
anyway, feel free to dm me if you want to meet up some time
<Shinmera>
from talking to exchange students, ETH is definitely quite a step above the usual in terms of teeth-grinding expectations :)
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<Shinmera>
Circling back to lisp, if there's really nothing annoying you, or nothing that you want to see come to existence, then you can always improve existing libraries and programs
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<Shinmera>
I don't think it's really possible to tell anyone "how to get inspired". It's a very personal kinda thing.
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<randomperson132>
Well, I think I would like to see a Lisp-based verification language, although I don't how much sense that makes
<Shinmera>
You mean like Coq or ACL2?
<randomperson132>
I'm not too familiar with ACL2, but I was thinking more of something like Dafny or Viper
<randomperson132>
As in statically verified pre- and post-conditions
<Shinmera>
right, ok
<Shinmera>
aside from it being a large task, what's stopping you then? :)
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<randomperson132>
Probably only it being a large task and not knowing quite where to start
<Shinmera>
I assume Coalton at least has some amount of overlap
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<Shinmera>
and otherwise, I guess you'll probably want an SMT solver at some point, that could be a starting point.
<randomperson132>
I didn't know about Coalton; looks nice :)
<randomperson132>
And the SMT solvers are a nice idea
<randomperson132>
Well to be honest, I think it's probably more that the task size seems initimadting
<Shinmera>
I seem to remember scymtym talking about SMTs before but I don't remember in what context.
<randomperson132>
Although I thought everyone just uses Z3
<Shinmera>
possible :)
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<beach>
randomperson132: If you have questions, please don't hesitate to ask.
<randomperson132>
That's a very nice list. Thank you very much :)
<beach>
Sure.
<beach>
Some of them might have been worked on since the list was established, so ask before starting something.
<randomperson132>
After looking at the list, I got reminded on what annoys me: The lack of actually working and libre presentation tools
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<beach>
What kind of presentation tool do you mean?
<randomperson132>
PowerPoint and Impress
<beach>
Oh, yes, I see.
<randomperson132>
I used Impress, and as much I would like to use it, it's quite broken imo
<beach>
So the one in LibreOffice is not working?
* beach
never used it.
<Shinmera>
beach: fwiw for video decoding there's cl-theora now, though it relies on Xiph's C library.
<randomperson132>
At least I wouldn't rely on it (I made that mistake once)
<beach>
Shinmera: Good to know. Though this list is specifically for pure Common Lisp projects.
<randomperson132>
If you simply want to create slides with no animations + keep it in the open format, it's probably fine
<randomperson132>
(although exporting somehow was broken for me; it kept messing up fonts)
<randomperson132>
But choosing between the Latex/Beamer or Impress is kind of sad; especially considering how many presentations are created
<beach>
randomperson132: I wonder whether McCLIM could be a good base for presentation software.
<randomperson132>
I have very few experiences with GUI creation; the only GUI I created was something consisting of buttons and labels using Qt bindings for Python
<Shinmera>
I would love a theora decoder in Lisp, but I have no time
<Shinmera>
The last presentation I wrote was made in Kandria lol
<Shinmera>
I also wrote a presentations system with Trial/Alloy at one point
<Shinmera>
though I have not updated it
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<randomperson132>
> The last presentation I wrote was made in Kandria lol
<randomperson132>
I had to double check whether it really was what I thought
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<randomperson132>
beach: Is someone working on the library for two-dimensional graph layout?
<beach>
Not that I know.
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<beach>
That's a nice one I think, because the algorithms are well documented.
<ixelp>
GitHub - garlic0x1/hiccl: Hiccup HTML generator for Common Lisp
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<smlckz>
please review this code and make any suggestions for improvements in the code: http://sprunge.us/HCvWKj
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<larix1>
smlckz: no reason for string-join to be a macro when it can be a function
<beach>
smlckz: You can omit the #' before (lambda...).
<beach>
smlckz: What larix1 said. Same with SYMBOL-TO-STRING.
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<smlckz>
larix1, beach: hmm
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<smlckz>
anything else? to make the code easier to restructure, to extend easily..
<beach>
smlckz: I didn't read it very carefully. I am kind of busy with other things.
<smlckz>
ah, thanks for your help so far
<beach>
Sure.
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<beach>
smlckz: Oh, I think we have a little representation problem. You seem to represent an "object" as a list. Right?
<beach>
smlckz: You can do that, of course. But then you should define accessors like (defun name (object) (cadr object)) (defun export (object) (car object)) etc.
<beach>
smlckz: But it is even better to define a standard class to represent objects.
<beach>
smlckz: One more thing. WHEN should not be used in a context where the value is needed. When the value is needed, it is much better to use an IF with an explicit `else' form.
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<beach>
smlckz: In PREPARE-PROCEDURE, it is a bit excessive to push to a list when only a maximum of two things are pushed. It is probably better to just construct it in the return value.
<randomperson132>
What are the go-to libraries for getting and parsing a website? I want to automatically download some data
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<randomperson132>
I'm looking at https://lispcookbook.github.io/cl-cookbook/getting-started.html to get a better feel of how one organizes projects. Do you place your projects in ~/common-lisp, ~/.local/share/common-lisp/source/ or ~/quicklisp/local-projects to be able to use quickload, or is the usual workflow different?
<ixelp>
Getting started with Common Lisp
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<larix1>
randomperson132: I put my personal projects in ~/common-lisp
<larix1>
but if I am downloading a library to use, but wont be editing it myself, i put it in ~/quicklisp/local-projects/
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<larix1>
or if using roswell, ~/.roswell/lisp/quicklisp/local-projects/
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<Pixel_Outlaw>
Speaking of rosewell, I get that it's supposed to enable bash scripts but when you've got the whole #! business at the top, how then do you get a nice REPL environment?
<Pixel_Outlaw>
Like interactive programming as you'd normally do.
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<Pixel_Outlaw>
*Roswell
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<larix1>
Just use sly/slime as normal
<larix1>
and I put this in my emacs config to use whatever CL implementation that I have ros set to:
<Equill>
randomperson132: responding late, but it might be useful. I put my projects in subdirectories under ~/devel. Mostly they're in language-specific ones, but my main project has enough subsystems that it's under ~/devel/restagraph/whatever. It comes from having a variety of pursuits to organise.
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<randomperson132>
That's useful to know, thanks!
<randomperson132>
I am trying to extract this from a website using lQuery:
<randomperson132>
<script>
<randomperson132>
//<![CDATA[
<randomperson132>
var pages = [{"image":"/system/releases/000/023/325/00001.png","name":"00001"},{"image":"/system/releases/000/023/325/00002.png","name":"00002"},...];
<randomperson132>
//]]>
<randomperson132>
</script>
<randomperson132>
Is this something that I can elegantly do with it?
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<Shinmera>
($1 document "script" (text))
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<randomperson132>
That brings me a step closer. I am mainly interested in /system/releases/000/023/325/00001.png, ...,etc.; do I have to parse those myself?
<Shinmera>
yea lquery only does HTML, not JS.
<Shinmera>
should be able to get there with a regex and a json parser
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<randomperson132>
And if there are multiple scripts, I guess I have to filter the list myself as well? (assuming I use $ instead of $1)
<Shinmera>
"filter the list"?
<randomperson132>
There are multiple script elements in the file, so ($ document "script" (text)) returns a vector
<Shinmera>
Colleen: tell randomperson132 look up lquery filter
<randomperson132>
I also just realized that what I want to implement already exists on the webpage; it's just well hidden (or my eyesight is bad)
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<larix1>
does anyone know how to make clack bind to 0.0.0.0 instead of 127.0.0.1?
<larix1>
tryna figure this out quickly since im borrowing a machine
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<Inline>
since when is asdf::*source-registry* a hashtable ?
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<Shinmera>
always? are you confusing it for asdf:*central-registry* ?
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<Inline>
ah
<Inline>
thank you, yes i was confusing it
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<lispmacs[work]>
Hi, in CLIM I am trying to run (setf (pane-text-style app-pane) (make-text-style :fix nil 24), but macro expands in weird way. something I misunderstand about how SETF is used?
<lispmacs[work]>
which fails as (SETF PANE-TEXT-STYLE) is not a function
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<Alfr>
lispmacs[work], prompt indicates you're likely in the wrong package; unless you've USE-PACKAGEd clim.
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<bike>
lispmacs[work]: this is the default expansion of setf, used when no special setf expansion is apparent. i am not familiar with clim but it could be that you're not actually using the clim accessor as alfr said.
<bike>
on the other hand, from a quick glance at mcclim, pane-text-style is defined as a reader but there is no corresponding writer, which could indicate this isn't actually something you can set.
<moon-child>
the fact that make-text-style doesn't error indicates that the package has in fact been used
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<lispmacs[work]>
i get the same error running it from within the application code, so I don't think it is a namespace problem
<lispmacs[work]>
but it might be that I am not supposed to change the text-style
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<lispmacs[work]>
though in principle I would think, with lisp, that I should be able to do it anyway
<lispmacs[work]>
but maybe the reader doesn't point to an actual location?
<lispmacs[work]>
just constructions an object for me?
<lispmacs[work]>
am asking about this in #clim but haven't heard back yet
<bike>
you can probably do it anyway, but this could be unexpected within clim's code and put you in an unexpected state
<bike>
again, just from glancing at mcclim, pane-text-style is a simple reader, so you could use setf symbol-value or reinitialize-instance. but if you're not intended to do so this will probably cause problems down the line, for example if they make it something other than an actual slot at some point.
<lispmacs[work]>
I'd like to try it, but SETF doesn't seem to work as I expect. I hadn't heard of reinitialize-instance
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