<jmercouris>
I find myself often reveting hunks, any way to automatically have those hunks re-eval'd upon reverting so the image stays "up to date"?
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<gendl__>
Hi, does anyone know how to do get the *compile-file-truename* embedded somehow into the fasl in SBCL?
<gendl__>
so that I can get hold of the source pathname when loading the corresponding fasl (even if said fasl is somewhere under asdf's cache and far away from the original .lisp source)
<gendl__>
for example Allegro has `excl:*source-pathname*` and CCL has `ccl:*loading-file-source-file*`
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<gilberth>
Quite a puzzle. You would need to get hold of the value at compile time.
<gilberth>
How about (macrolet ((aux () `',*compile-file-truename*))) (defparameter *my-source* (aux)))?
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<pfdietz>
sharp-dot reader macro?
<gilberth>
That would work as well, but technically is read time.
<pfdietz>
COMPILE-FILE binds that variable, so sharp-dot will get the value at the time the source forms are read.
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<gendl__>
putting `(defparameter *my-source* #.*compile-file-pathname*)` seems to work - but I'm trying to figure out why the *my-source* doesn't get clobbered on the fasl load, because at fasl load time, `*compile-file-truename*` is `nil`
<gendl__>
The macrolet approach seems to work as well by the way
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<gendl__>
that seems to yield the correct path even when just loading the fasl from asdf's fasl cache.
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<dnhester26>
Hi, I'm trying to make an (un)Official Documentation for Common Lisp which will be complete containing a free (MIT License, unless anyone has any recommendations) HyperSpec, Tutorial, and How To Guides
<dnhester26>
Someone just contributed the first guide in the tutorial, it's on Macros (because for us beginners we don't really know where to learn them)
<dnhester26>
I can add you as a contributor to the project if you'd like
<dnhester26>
beach would you mind taking a look?
<beach>
Sure.
<beach>
dnhester26: The free thing similar to the HyperSpec has already been done.
<beach>
dnhester26: What we need is a language reference.
<beach>
dnhester26: I am not sure what I am looking at at the link you gave.
<dnhester26>
beach sorry, what's the difference exactly? I created the github project for that, but can you please write some instructions in the Readme.md to know how to contribute?
<dnhester26>
That is supposed to be a guide to Macros for someone who is a beginner trying to learn LISP. Like how other languages have a Tutorial for example python: https://docs.python.org/3/tutorial/index.html
<ixelp>
The Python Tutorial — Python 3.12.0 documentation
<beach>
The HyperSpec is a HTML version of the standard, and the standard was written mainly for people who implement Common Lisp systems, so it is a bit too compact for the application programmer.
<beach>
We don't need a tutorial either. There are plenty of those, in book form and online.
<beach>
A language reference contains everything that a programmer need to know about the language, but it is not necessarily meant for the newbie.
<beach>
I see a commit saying macros.md, but I don't know how to view the contents.
<beach>
Oh, I can see the source. But how do I view the rendered version?
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<beach>
So, if I understand you right, you want me to proofread that text, yes?
<beach>
But I am not the only one here who can proofread stuff, so it should be clear that everyone is invited to have a look.
<beach>
It look more like tutorial material, and I think that's fine. Such material should not be rejected. But the emphasis should be on reference material.
<beach>
It looks well written to me.
<beach>
So, many pages of a reference manual can be obtained by starting with the dpANS and adding more examples (fixing the ones that are incorrect in the dpaANS), adding more explanations, and more links.
<beach>
Therefore, a good starting point is to turn every section in the dpANS into Markdown, and to link up those pages.
<dnhester26>
Great
<dnhester26>
That's what I've been working, I was getting nervous that all the ours I've spent the last couple of days working on dpANS were lost
<dnhester26>
Ok, will share that hopefully soon
<beach>
For example, a typical page will say something like "if ..., then an error should be signaled", and "an error should be signaled" should either be a link to the page that explains the error terminology, or the phase should be expanded.
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<beach>
I don't know whether Markdown has an "include" feature. If so, that would be another possibility. Write the terminology in one file, and then make sure it is rendered in several others.
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<beach>
*the phrase
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<beach>
Oh, and the syntax on a typical page should probably be expanded into a phrase as well. "A form using this operator must supply a required argument .... and then an arbitrary number of optional arguments, each being ..." stuff like that.
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<dnhester26>
beach yes, we are actually using both classic MarkDown and MDX which is a version which allows MarkDown to include any other markdown pages or react components. It's in the tutorial page of docusaurus, but hopefully I should be able to take care of doing that or making examples of how to do it so you can just focus on the actual content
<beach>
That would be great!
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<ares123>
hi, guys, anyone with a bit of esrap experience ? I can't get (+ <rule>) to do repetition / it matches only the first match and then errors out.
<kevingal_>
I run (esrap:parse '(+ character) ".a") and it works for me.
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<ares123>
fuck my PC / life. why do I get every wierd un-reproducible bug :-(
<ares123>
thanks for the confirmation kevingal_
<kevingal_>
Linux, SBCL 1.4.5
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<kevingal_>
What's the error?
<ares123>
At
<ares123>
.a
<ares123>
^ (Line 1, Column 1, Position 1)
<ares123>
In context CHARACTER:
<ares123>
While parsing CHARACTER. Expected:
<ares123>
<end of input>
<ares123>
[Condition of type ES:ESRAP-PARSE-ERROR]
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<ares123>
Oh, my + was from generic-cl ...
<ares123>
> (es:parse '(cl:+ character) ".a")
<ares123>
works as expected.
<ares123>
Still don't like it, but what can I do ...
<jdz>
ares123: You can use ES:+ instead.
<jdz>
You'd still have to do that for other expressions, like !, ?, etc.
<ares123>
Not much better, but slightly. Going by symbol name would probably break some use-cases ?
<ares123>
Yeah, exactly. Any way one could "have generic-cl and eat it too :-)" ?
<ares123>
ooooh, let's try :+ , LOL
<ares123>
doesn't work, but is shorter and unique / obvious.
<ares123>
anyone adding support for keywords would be worth implementing ?
<ares123>
s/anyone adding/anyone thinks adding/
<younder>
(unless (find-package :cl-package-locks) (asdf:load-system :cl-package-locks)) runs too late. What is the command to make it run before the compiler compiles te function declarations?
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<ares123>
eval-when ?
<younder>
ares123: right. (eval-when (:load-toplevel) ...) get there before the compilation. Thanks!
<beach>
younder: What is the problem here? It is hard to understand (for me) because you are talking about "commands" but perhaps you mean forms, and you are talking about compiling "function declarations", but declarations are not what gets compiled, because they are not forms. Perhaps you mean "function definitions"?
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<younder>
beach: Perhaps a bit of context. I was getting errors like 'Package INFERIOR-SHELL does not exist.' when compiling utils.lisp even though (unless (find-package :inferior-shell) (asdf:load-system :inferior-shell)) were present. I knew there was a way to get them evaluated first, but was a bit weak on the details.
<beach>
I see. Well, it looks like you solved your problem.
<ares123>
since you are using asdf anyways, maybe this could be solved in the .asd system definition (unless the file needs to be LOADable standalone)?
<younder>
ares123: Well that's the thing. It's used as a standalone file I load mostly to prototype. It has enter-playpen/leave-playpen functions which set up a new namspace that goes away when I leave. Thus avoiding cluttering the global namespace with temporary data.
<younder>
For convenience it also has commands like (! "ls" )
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<ares123>
younder: the only thing that occured to me was that you probably already have a "shortcut / loader" function in your init-file to "load & enter-playpen" ?
<ares123>
otherwise just: nice / thanks for the inspiration, creating a "scratch project" might be too heavy-weight for some cases, and just "create an .lisp file" is "too lightweight for most purposes"
<ares123>
but cl-project & other scaffolding generators are pretty sweet / low-cost.
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<kevingal_>
Is it possible to hook into calls to DEFCLASS? I wanna save the class name whenever a subclass of a particular superclass is defined.
<ares123>
MOP / meta-object protocol should cover this
<beach>
kevingal_: Yes, as ares123 says, with the MOP. The expansion calls ENSURE-CLASS which calls ENSURE-CLASS-USING-CLASS.
<kevingal_>
Thanks a lot! I was looking at MOP but didn't come across ENSURE-CLASS.
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<beach>
You means you looked in the book?
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<beach>
The book is impossible to follow. That's why I made this website.
<beach>
I mean, the specification part of the book.
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<younder>
'The art of Metaobject protocol' is also out of print
<kevingal_>
I was browsing random websites, decided to ask here before resorting to the book. So thanks for saving me from the impossible-to-follow book!
<beach>
kevingal_: Sure. Enjoy the site. There is a nice class diagram too! :)
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<ares123>
younder: AMOP might be out of print, but "it might be *cough* downloadable *cough*". or check amazon, or go through the ordeal of figuring out which library might have a copy or two. Archive.org (and/or others) ran a "free PDF rental", AFAIR.
<ares123>
s/amazon/ebay/
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<younder>
ares123: I already have a copy
<ares123>
oh, sorry, I jut assumed you were lamenting the fact.
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<kevingal_>
Am I using this right? Here my goal is to print out the superclasses of any class that gets defined, but it's not working.
<kevingal_>
(defmethod closer-mop:ensure-class-using-class :after (class name &key direct-superclasses &allow-other-keys)
<kevingal_>
(loop for sc in direct-superclasses do (format t "~a~%" sc)))
<kevingal_>
(Sorry for pasting code here).
<bike>
defining a method that's applicable when given all objects of standard classes is not permitted. your implementation may be applying some optimization that bypasses your method.
<beach>
kevingal_: You are not allowed to define methods that are applicable when given only specified class instances.
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<ares123>
I wanted to say you probably wanna specify which class it should apply to, but hey, #cl was faster and better ;-)
<ares123>
That's why I hang out after asking what I came for ;-)
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<bike>
also, with respect to your original problem, you can use class-direct-subclasses to get all defined subclasses of your class, without having to hook anything.
<bike>
may or may not help.
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<kevingal_>
Hm, so can I somehow define the method only for subclasses of a particular class?
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<kevingal_>
I mean, dispatch on subclasses of a certain class.
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<beach>
You may have to define a new metaclass for your classes to do that.
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<kevingal_>
I might have to abandon this effort for now, don't have time to get sucked into the details of MOP. Thanks for the pointers though!
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<beach>
Pleasure.
<lispmacs[work]>
can we attach docstrings to class definitions and class methods?
<beach>
Yes, to classes. There is no such thing as a "class method".
<lispmacs[work]>
for the class, where exactly is the docstring added?
<beach>
As you can see, there is a :documentation class option.
<lispmacs[work]>
ah, okay
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<lispmacs[work]>
can the class documention come before the slots, with DEFCLASS? It seems that they must be after the slots, but it would be more readible in the source code to have them first
<lispmacs[work]>
to have the class documentation first, I meant
<Shinmera>
you can't
<Shinmera>
but you can have docstrings completely separate from the definition
<Shinmera>
(which happens to be beach's and mine preferred style)
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<pfdietz>
Assigning to (documentation ....)?
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<beach>
Right.
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<lispmacs[work]>
Shinmera: do you just assign with DOCUMENTATION right after your DEFCLASS then?
<Shinmera>
No, I keep a separate documentation.lisp file. You can see it on all of my libraries
<lispmacs[work]>
can you give me a link to an example?
<Inline>
each slot can have a :documentation on it's own too, if you want to document the slots too i.e.
<lispmacs[work]>
i meant using DOCUMENTATION function separate from DEFCLASS
<Inline>
oh, sorry
<lispmacs[work]>
I see it the spec page but am still confused
<Inline>
yah, no wonder, it's gf, and there are no examples there
<Inline>
so when you have a gf, you implement methods
<Inline>
which dispatch on the object instance of interest
<yitzi>
There are examples in CLHS, at least for getting the top level documentation of the class. You just call on the class instance.
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<yitzi>
For the slot documentation you just call on the on the slot instances returned from mop:class-slots
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<yitzi>
You can also do `(documentation class-name 'type)`
<lispmacs[work]>
so, something like... (documentation (find-class 'h1500-screen) 'string) ?
<lispmacs[work]>
but 'string is apparently unsupported
<lispmacs[work]>
"unsupported DOCUMENTATION: doc-type STRING for object of type STANDARD-CLASS"
<yitzi>
No, either `(documentation 'stream 'type)` or `(documentation (find-class 'stream) t)`
<lispmacs[work]>
ah, okay
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<lispmacs[work]>
and then I would need to use SETF to set this to my own string...?
<yitzi>
If you look at the method signatures in the CLHS for standard class you will see there are two specializations for doc-type: (eql 't) and (eql 'type)
<yitzi>
Correct
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