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<heap_> hi
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<heap_> does anyone understand uboot on armbian? ie how to configure it
<ArmbianTwitter> @Esky33junglist (esky33): https://t.co/GyxQvglC7L Run your own node 🥱 Hack0 @NicolasDorier 🥷🌴⚡️🏗️🌞🌊🍸🫂 https://tinyurl.com/yemcq4we (11s ago)
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<heap_> how can i access uboot env storage?
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<rneese> any i3 users in here
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<rneese> twiteros for rk3399 hmm will have to boot and look a it
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<heap_> hm
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<heap_> i manually edited boot.cmd and boot.scr and its booting from /dev/mmcblk0p2
<heap_> but if i kill /dev/mmcblk0p1 it is not booting anymore
<heap_> this is strange
<heap_> i mean the design of amrbian is completely wrong
<heap_> 1) why /boot is not separate partition
<heap_> 2) there is 0 documentation regarding uboot env
<heap_> 3) community is agresive
<heap_> 4) maybe time to leave that distro for ever
<cheakoirccloud> Seems like a kernel logic issue? https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/Lw30J4yW/
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<binarym> heap_: good luck in your quest of an armbian alternative :-)
<binarym> moreover keep in mind that armbian is a debian derivated
<binarym> so i guess that most of the choices haven't been directly taken by armbian team
<binarym> just inherited from debian
<binarym> anyway, armbian is an opensource project, i'm pretty sure that if you have free time you can contribute to solve this "wrong design" issue
<binarym> (note: i'm not an armbian contributor at all... just a random user who respect benevol's work and do not consider that everything is due just like i was buying a windows licence)
<binarym> <3
<heap_> okay
<rneese> Heap shy should /boot be on its own partition when it does not need to be
<rneese> shy/why thats old outdated
<rneese> even normal linux doe not put grup in its own partition
<rneese> Armbina is debian/ubuntu
<rneese> it can build both
<heap_> right now i have two partitions /dev/mmcblk0p1 /dev/mmcblk0p2
<heap_> both contain /boot
<heap_> folder
<heap_> and its booted and rootfs is /dev/mmcblk0p2
<heap_> when i remove /boot from /dev/mmcblk0p2 ; it doesnt boot
<heap_> which is strange
<rneese> because you told uboot to use /boot /root on p2
<heap_> and they say it should be on the first partition /dev/mmcblk0p1
<heap_> not really
<heap_> bc when i remove /boot from /dev/mmcblk0p1 it also doesnt boot.
<heap_> Booting with boot.cmd
<heap_> For booting from SD with mainline U-Boot, the recommended way is:
<heap_> create a file boot.cmd on the first partitio
<heap_> it has to be on first partition
<rneese> you need to go read and learn about armbian and u-boot and linux and u-boot in general
<heap_> no i dont.
<heap_> all these things are described https://sunxi.org/Bootable_SD_card#Bootloader
<heap_> etc
<rneese> your trying to do things that by default are very limited at this point compaired to intel/amd linux
<heap_> no
<rneese> alot of work will have to be done and we are working to fix other things right now
<heap_> i am following sunxi documentation for arm
<rneese> we will work on things once our new builder system is done
<heap_> i am trying to solve trivial thing
<heap_> nothing special
<rneese> we patch uboot and the os per board
<rneese> to fix issues that the default u-boot has not done
<rneese> and we moved to 1 partition to make it cleaned to build and install
<heap_> thats okay
<heap_> all i need is to move rootfs somewhere else
<rneese> then plug in a usb thumbdrive
<rneese> mount and use it
<rneese> or a usb hard drive/ssd
<rneese> sd are slow and have less read writes overall and slower in performance
<rneese> why are you so hung up on this being on a sd ?
<rneese> as it stands zfs is not current support openly on armbian we have stated this . and it will be awhile till it is unless some one does it and commits it to git for review
<heap_> rneese: the question is why do i have to have /boot on both partitions to boot
<heap_> rneese: what do u mean not supported? u can install it easily; what support for that do u need. no clue
<rneese> because you cloned the p1 to p2 and boot is on p1 there for it is cp to p2
<rneese> as its part of the root fs on armbian
<rneese> its not on a fat32 partition
<rneese> it use to be then we upgraded and fixed the issue where it no longer needed its own partition
<rneese> its cleaner install and performance
<rneese> heap armbian is far from wrong also its just not how you want it
<rneese> and if you want to leave armbian leave
<rneese> thats on you
<rneese> go try this on manjaro
<rneese> aka arch linux
<rneese> its abotu the only other linux that works but it has limited boards
<rneese> and lacks the kernel patches that fix alot of issues
<heap_> i see
<rneese> they dont patch device trees for better performance
<heap_> i dont get it .. yes i cloned p1 to p2
<heap_> but if i remove boot dir from p2 it doesnt boot
<heap_> rneese: yes most of these are outdated etc... so maybe thats why i wanted armbian
<rneese> and getting support means dealing with kernel devs who will say its not thier issue
<rneese> so learn the builder
<rneese> learn the installer and help us get zfs into the base build as a install option
<rneese> but dont sit and complain.
<heap_> well i need firstly understand uboot
<rneese> armbian has come along way in a short life span and we are doing what we can
<heap_> and i wanted simple just change ext4 rootfs and as u can see i cant make it work properl y:)
<rneese> you will need a ttl to usb for that
<rneese> so you can get to the uboot console easier
<heap_> like to see whats going on?
<rneese> or stop thee boot and get into usboot and read the help
<rneese> yes
<heap_> i see
<heap_> is usb cable okay? via microusb?
<rneese> the serial console allows more interaction
<rneese> ok
<rneese> i use putty
<heap_> yeah
<rneese> and select the usb port its on
<heap_> i did that with cubox time ago
<heap_> usb OTG?
<rneese> no you have to use a usb to ttl
<rneese> the otg started having issues
<rneese> so we moved to the serial console port
<rneese> better performance
<heap_> ;/
<rneese> they are easy to get and cheap
<heap_> and where to plug
<rneese> your board should have pin out for a usb to ttl
<rneese> 4 pins
<rneese> what board again
<rneese> EBPFv%252B5IXryG58kMGb78QOdmNZrpWSUh4%252FL0ctmduyzBdzEKb3WYnOEhGcue9SyAXGaGdgIQkz7MOV0cuUzb8aJYDDTZ9Yk6r40fo%252FGCMVLNU9wyeMfxN%252BkIQj%252BfqjhrxmLeNtTBdB1H5sUyfB9Zi%252FxlWbyihoiCKweM0A7bUuBRT6JAUc4iIk9udRVKBHGDL9nomq6fC1ZZk%252FWTDonNeNrRAOCXGIzLsW2FnypjgDmu3L3f40Y3ppZxfaSekD9pArT7m4vCMG8xXQc7sAMl8TpGmu7%252F4ViBnjkmO9g%252FDKD%252By4BCKaoqVjZPdLAYYpggh4Am6GF7AAwmJy7jkYH5XEKEl%252B7d%252BtwqwesOvdcxqh5jEaVZvHbxQqNQORphDk9X6P
<rneese> KKJtN4nHaopSILl1FLAevkzHgayLqAoLlsfVYxYgspR5HBap32Pn5jG2ncbiULh7YcP2j9gIS%252FeD2fKwHLKVNjBpcUNYBUyLFoK6iHfUxTgX09uywe4ADITt6%252BrIBCrsfUHaM8Y9vii0h65fguRHIyBCDiRUyAUBBpg8gzbj2z1V8olvXCjs1ayhyYupT3h8kj5%252Fp55zjKEXULu8xO%252FB5gp5RqrhqceMi1XoXqYFWg6h09V8xBVq9TadqmEzvujgIx55diigEooVv4r%252FLy%252FhK7DqK2aomb4PT0q0XkuLE2x99zXefa3WVZL1iV2jOEVA%253D%253D%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2047675
<rneese> sorry
<rneese> bad paste
<heap_> i have something like that for odroid
<heap_> so it should work
<rneese> that should be fine
<heap_> question where to plug it :)
<rneese> what board
<rneese> are you using again
<heap_> banana m1+
<rneese> 3 pins next to the ethernet header
<heap_> oh i see now
<rneese> also dont know how well zfs will work on 1 gig meme
<rneese> thats tight fiot
<heap_> yeah but if u need ZFS on 16GB partition should be find
<heap_> i lready discussed with guys from openzfs
<heap_> but its 3 pins and mine has 4 pins
<rneese> you only need the rx/tx/gnd
<heap_> okay hopefully it wont kill my laptop usb port
<rneese> it wont
<rneese> I use mine all the time
<heap_> all plugged
<heap_> now need to setup putty somehow
<heap_> i used minicom long time ago
<rneese> linux or windows or mac
<heap_> win
<heap_> i mean minicom linux
<heap_> now i am on win
<heap_> machine
<rneese> goto device manager
<rneese> and look at the ports
<rneese> and see what it marked it as
<rneese> you might need a driver
<heap_> i can see usb to uar
<heap_> other devices but there is a exclamation mark
<heap_> The drivers for this device are not installed. (Code 28)
<heap_> yeah
<rneese> that means you need a driver for it
<rneese> as windows did not find a driver
<heap_> this one maybe
<rneese> yes
<heap_> is it that one?>
<rneese> what chip
<rneese> is the uart
<heap_> too small to read it
<heap_> seem it works
<heap_> it shouws COM3
<heap_> but question is now what ttyUSBXXX is it
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<heap_> hm its com3
<heap_> in device manager but what speed 9600?
<rneese> 1150000
<heap_> 115200
<heap_> u meant
<heap_> doesnt work
<heap_> strange
<heap_> ;/
<[TheBug]> huh
<[TheBug]> can you actually say the commands your running
<[TheBug]> also use screen not minicom
<[TheBug]> ohh your on windows
<heap_> i am using win10 + putty now
<[TheBug]> nm
<heap_> and driver has port settings
<heap_> flow control xon/xoff?
<[TheBug]> you still trying to mod uboot?
<[TheBug]> funny thing is you refuse to really provide needed info so still after 3 days I have no clue what board you are using
<heap_> [TheBug]: board was provided 10x
<heap_> banana m1+
<[TheBug]> So it's an H3 device?
<[TheBug]> or?
<heap_> h3?
<[TheBug]> A20?
<heap_> a20
<[TheBug]> it's the A20 okay
<[TheBug]> and all you want to do is change the rootfs device?
<heap_> yes
<[TheBug]> While I firmly believe without looking you can modify what you need in /boot I will pull out mine and flash a card and confirm since in 3 days you can't seem to figure it out
<heap_> [TheBug]: do u have that device? banana m1+?
<heap_> so i installed TeraTErm
<heap_> i can see some broken characters?
<heap_> :)
<heap_> ok i can see uboot via serial!
<heap_> here is a dump
<heap_> Starting kernel ...
<heap_> [ 10.965912] phy id_det change to device
<heap_> [ 12.186881] systemd[1]: Failed to start Install ZFS kernel module.
<heap_> weird
<[TheBug]> can I remember the password for my existing image
<[TheBug]> that is the question..
<[TheBug]> hmm
<heap_> so now i cancelled autoboot
<heap_> and i assume i am in uboot cmd
<rneese> on the bannapi m1 it is serial1
<heap_> env
<rneese> ./h or /help
<rneese> at the propt gives oyu all the commands
<heap_> yeah but question what is it good for :)
<[TheBug]> heap_: I have a lot of devices
<rneese> wait
<rneese> your using teratem on winows
<heap_> yeah
<[TheBug]> omg dude
<[TheBug]> its in armbianEnv.txt
<[TheBug]> you update rootdev=
<[TheBug]> pretty simple
<[TheBug]> if you know UUID of it put in UUID otherwise remove UUDI= and change it to /dev/<device>>
<heap_> not really.
<heap_> i already did that...
<[TheBug]> then you didn't do it right
<heap_> no
<[TheBug]> also the next step could be updating boot.cmd like I told you
<heap_> the question is; why do i have to have 2 /boot folders
<heap_> i did that also
<heap_> and also boot.cmd required change
<[TheBug]> and instead of it leveraging the armbianenv.txt you can spec it specifically in there
<[TheBug]> and then remake boot.scr
<[TheBug]> again your are asking questions with no context
<[TheBug]> this is why you get no answers and are confused
<[TheBug]> you have tro provide information
<[TheBug]> how do you have two /boots on what medium?
<[TheBug]> how are you determining the actual root device name you are adding to armbianEnv.txt
<[TheBug]> you sure you have the right device name?
<heap_> Device Boot Start End Sectors Size Id Type
<heap_> /dev/mmcblk0p1 8192 10493951 10485760 5G 83 Linux
<heap_> /dev/mmcblk0p2 * 10493952 31116287 20622336 9.9G 83 Linux
<[TheBug]> you are always going to have to boot from SDcard and pivot to other rootfs
<heap_> p2 is clone of p1
<rneese> ./boot is on the root fs now on armbian not like it use to be where iy had its own partition
<rneese> so if you clone p1 to p2 it has boot on it also
<[TheBug]> "used to be"
<[TheBug]> what are you talking about?
<heap_> fs on p1 contains /boot folder; also fs on p2 contains /boot folder
<[TheBug]> on Armbian there is no seperate partitions
<[TheBug]> it should be one single partition
<heap_> i created it.
<heap_> i created p2
<[TheBug]> if your then booting from another device, that device would have it's on single partition
<heap_> and i copied 1:1 of p1 to p2
<rneese> armbian back when it satered and I was using a cubieboard /boot was on a fat32 partition and root was on ext4
<heap_> rneese: yeah
<rneese> they change dit down the line to be on 1 partition
<[TheBug]> then why are you asking me a stupid question such as why is /boot on both, if you copied it, its a copy?
<heap_> [TheBug]: i am not asking why
<heap_> i am saying that even now rootfs is booted from p2
<heap_> when i remove /boot from p2
<heap_> it doesnt boot up
<[TheBug]> okay...
<[TheBug]> its not going to guess
<[TheBug]> you have to specifically state where it is to find rootfs
<heap_> when i remove /boot from p1 and keep it on p2 it also doesnt boot
<heap_> the only scenario when it boots is that /boot exists on p1 and p2
<[TheBug]> sounds right
<heap_> which doesnt make a sense to me
<[TheBug]> thats cause you didn't configure your variables correctly between them
<heap_> now i am booted and rootfs is p2 /dev/mmcblk0p2 9.7G 1.1G 8.1G 12% /
<[TheBug]> its probably trying to load kernel from one while using uboot from other
<heap_> [TheBug]: thats what i am saying from the begining
<[TheBug]> my guess is its going to try and load kernel from first partition in folder /boot
<heap_> where can i configure these variables/
<heap_> [TheBug]: yes
<[TheBug]> in boot.cmd and armbianEnv.txt
<heap_> but if it does; for a what reason it needs p2 with /boot folder
<heap_> [TheBug]: that was set properly.
<heap_> [TheBug]: u are missing important thing apparently
<heap_> uboot has to KNOW
<[TheBug]> did you set ubootpart variable?
<heap_> from which location to read boot.cmd/boot.scr
<heap_> [TheBug]: DAMn :D
<[TheBug]> honestly at this point I really want to know what you expect to accomplish also
<binarym> .oO (kick this troll)
<[TheBug]> why are you doing this?
<heap_> [TheBug]: i am sayng that i HAVE NO CLUE WHRE TO SET ubootpart variable.
<heap_> and that question was asked 3 days ago
<heap_> and no answer was provided.
<heap_> i dont know what ubootpart variable and where.
<heap_> i want to have /boot on DEVICE p1 and rootfs on device p2
<[TheBug]> because we are not your mommy and daddy you should be doing your own googling and reading to understand as well, we generally will point you in the direction but at this point you seem to just want us to do it for you.. thats why I am a bit put off by this -- I feel like we gave you the tools but you don't want to do the work.
<heap_> is that hard to understand such a simple requirement?
<[TheBug]> if you can explain why you need to partitions and both to boot
<[TheBug]> maybe I can think through a solution for you
<[TheBug]> why do you need two partitions like that??
<heap_> i need it.
<heap_> there is no point to ask for that
<rneese> it is needed if to help
<heap_> and i need it bc /boot will be ext4/vfat and rootfs later on ZFS
<heap_> no there is no connection between
<[TheBug]> why would you do that on an A20 O_o
<heap_> bc this is infinite loop; i said XY times that boot.cmd/boot.scr and amrbianEnv.txt was updated acordingly
<heap_> jesus christ
<heap_> why?
<heap_> bc sky is blue.
<rneese> ok stop
<heap_> i defined the issue; and asked how to boot while /boot on p1 and rootfs on p2
<heap_> instead of providing help there are infinite questions in loop why u need that
<rneese> i believe you can set the uboot to have boot=
<heap_> i need roofs to have on ZFS
<heap_> thats all.
<heap_> nothing is behind it.
<rneese> but would have to look ay the uboot and what it supports
<heap_> and there are 10000 ppl who run amrdevices in such a configuration.
<rneese> what arm devices and what os
<heap_> rneese: i can boot and p2 is as rootfs now
<rneese> are they running a ubuntu default install
<heap_> rneese: yes.
<heap_> rneese: rpi4+ ubuntu default yes
<heap_> i know that rpi4 is not banana m1+
<heap_> but it doesnt matter.
<rneese> thats because ubuntu still does things diff they use /boot /root on 2 diff partitions
<heap_> yes
<heap_> and thats what i want to do
<heap_> setup/
<rneese> its the diff of how armbian and the ubuntu base install work
<heap_> and it works somehow now
<heap_> i can boot from p1 and p2 is as rootfs
<heap_> what i am saying is that there is some bug
<rneese> armbian only splis the partition out when you use sd to boot and a sata as /root
<heap_> and the bug is ; /boot has to exists on p1 and p2
<rneese> or emmc to boot and nvme/sata to root
<rneese> thats not the issue
<heap_> again infinite loop
<heap_> i am trying to set up it.
<heap_> whats not the issue?
<heap_> i am asking saying why do i have to have /boot on both p1 and p2
<rneese> but armbian is not setup for sd to had /boot on its own any more
<heap_> as uboot is reading boot.scr from p1 by default
<heap_> but thats default armbian install
<heap_> and i am trying to reconfigure it.
<heap_> thats why i am asking 3 days
<heap_> how to reconfigure it .
<rneese> I understand but by default your not listening
<heap_> and instead of answers im getting questions why.
<[TheBug]> open boot.cmd, go down to the line it sets the bootargs, mnodify the bootargs where it says root=${rootdev} to say root=/dev/mmcblk0p2, save, compile to boot.scr mkimage -C none -A arm -T script -d /boot/boot.cmd /boot/boot.scr reboot
<heap_> [TheBug]: yes thats what i did.
<heap_> [TheBug]: and thats why i can now boot and rootfs is p2
<[TheBug]> okay then what are we even talking about here
<[TheBug]> I am going back to work
<rneese> but if you rm p1 it breaks
<heap_> [TheBug]: u are not reading what i am writting thats the issue.
<heap_> rneese: yes.
<heap_> and if i keep /boot on p1 and remove /boot from p2 it also breaks
<heap_> which doesnt make any sense.
<heap_> i asume uboot reads everthing from p1 regarding the boot and kernel img
<heap_> so i do not understand why /boot has to exists on p2 also
<heap_> [TheBug]: sorry but u are ignoring what i am saying; u just repeating stuff which i did and is apparently not working as expected. thats why i do not understand that...
<Tenkawa> heap_: it has to exist because soon as fstab tries to mount it the directory has to exist on the p2 filesystem
<Tenkawa> ie /boot in p2 has to exist for p1 to mount on it
<heap_> Booting with boot.cmd
<heap_> For booting from SD with mainline U-Boot, the recommended way is:
<heap_> create a file boot.cmd on the first partition
<Tenkawa> it would mount as mount /dev/blahp1 /boot but it "must" be an existing path
<heap_> Tenkawa: not really i dont have /boot in fstab
<rneese> fstab read/root
<heap_> root@bananapi:~# cat /etc/fstab
<heap_> UUID=5b12670a-5295-499e-a412-e397cd2602b0 / ext4 defaults,noatime,commit=600,errors=remount-ro 0 1
<heap_> thats all whats tehre
<rneese> it does not look for /boot
<rneese> thats where it reads the root/boot after it boots uboot
<rneese> uboot then reads to the fstab as the kernel is loaded
<rneese> stop and go back to looking right at the uboot config
<[TheBug]> allwinner uboot is always going to look for the uboot files it needs, boot.scr etc in /boot on the first partition on the drive for how to bring up uboot
<Tenkawa> yes.. I was trying to point out to him the necessity of mountpoint hierachy
<Tenkawa> hierarchy
<heap_> [TheBug]: yes thats correct.
<heap_> thats why /boot has to exists on p1
<Tenkawa> if the paths are missing and you have a reference.. that would break it.. if its not referencing it I agree it will be fine.
<[TheBug]> you need /boot on p2 because your kernel is there, it will then load kernel from /boot on rootfs
<[TheBug]> ...
<heap_> rneese: yes thats the link i am looking into half of the day.
<[TheBug]> generally most use the same single partition as you specifically said, so it isn't an issue, but yeah if you intend to have two partitions, first will need /boot with boot.scr in it to tell uboot how to boot, second will need /boot to have the kernel your loading from teh rootfs
<[TheBug]> mystery solved
<heap_> [TheBug]: okay in that cas its solved now. ie on p1 it has to have boot.src and kernel image has to be in /boot on p2
<Tenkawa> yeah.. this is why I use syslinux/extlinux if possible (not sure this board supports it)
<heap_> [TheBug]: yes, thanks
<rneese> ok Isee a issue stop
<rneese> stop
<rneese> ok for 1 the mainline kernel they are using is 4.x and we are on 5.x
<heap_> but i was assuming that it loads boot.scr + kernel image from p1
<rneese> so sunxi has not updated their info
<heap_> and it apparently loads only boot.scr from p1
<rneese> so things have changed
<heap_> rneese: yeah
<rneese> the most boards dont have all the updated uboot and patches armbian has
<rneese> so it will not work like you are thinking
<heap_> thats a problem; the best thing would be to buy rpi devices only as all other devices are poorly supported by vendors; and vendor is resposible for uboot
<rneese> you need to get into the uboot and list what its config is
<heap_> rneese: thats why i setup serial
<rneese> ok
<heap_> if u mean by this printenv ; then yes
<rneese> I believe the options would be bootdev= and bootfs=
<heap_> i am trying to dump that and read thru
<rneese> thata whould have to be added
<rneese> but not shure what sunxi supports
<rneese> this way the /boot could be on its own partition
<heap_> [TheBug]: and it doesn work again.
<heap_> Failed to load '/boot/zImage'
<heap_> its loading /boot/zImage from p1
<heap_> not from p2
<heap_> :)
<[TheBug]> heap_: just to be clear I have described to you the default configuration of uboot and boot.cmd, if you take no more time reviewing it than to just change the rootdev and not take time to understand the other variables and such, then yeah, your going to have to use it that way. If you want to take time and read and learn how uboot works, I am confident you can change it to load both the
<[TheBug]> kernel and uboot needed items from partition 1.
<[TheBug]> "the reason it is working this way" is because that is how you have it configured to work.
<rneese> well the answer is to get a system that boots emmc/ssd and read the config to see how it splits out /boot
<[TheBug]> or just go read the contents of the sata install script in /boot
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<rneese> mine is emmc/nvme and there is nothing there as a special script
<heap_> 19:51 <+[TheBug]> you need /boot on p2 because your kernel is there, it will then load kernel from /boot on rootfs
<[TheBug]> "the reason it is working this way" is because that is how you have it configured to work.
<rneese> ok
<rneese> as it is it rewrites the fstab
<rneese> it has to do with the fstab
<rneese> you have to tell fstab that /root is on partition 2 and boot is on p1
<rneese> # <file system><mount point><type><options><dump><pass>
<rneese> UUID=987bd1d4-2558-450d-aff7-00c41c6ab271/media/mmcroot btrfsdefaults,noatime,commit=600,compress=lzo,x-gvfs-hide02
<rneese> tmpfs/tmptmpfsdefaults,nosuid00
<rneese> UUID=9cbd81fb-4acc-4ae6-bbc0-5516882e0921/media/mmcbootext4 defaults,noatime,commit=600,errors=remount-ro,x-gvfs-hide01
<rneese> UUID=0f4cbecd-1909-40b4-b4a4-3a6f565f4600/btrfsdefaults,noatime,commit=600,compress=lzo,x-gvfs-hide02
<iwkse> hi there, still having issues with letting the orange pi zero connects though wifi with setting interfaces file, here my conf https://dpaste.org/kwZY https://dpaste.org/CMZZ
<heap_> 19:51 <+[TheBug]> you need /boot on p2 because your kernel is there, it will then load kernel from /boot on rootfs
<rneese> post yout fstab did you update the uuid in the fstab
<heap_> yes i did.
<rneese> if not it will go to p1 to boot
<rneese> ok
<heap_> what rewrites fstab?
<rneese> you have to hand edit it
<heap_> yes
<rneese> unless you use the installer
<heap_> i edited my fstab manually with proper uuid
<rneese> sorry have to go shower and pre for a medical visit bbl
<heap_> rneese: i dont understand what are u trying to achieve
<heap_> but okay
<heap_> [TheBug]: even your sentences are wrong or i configured it wrong. i dunno but i set up rootdev properly.
<heap_> and reason why i reads kernel image from p1 i have no clue
<heap_> and as it does read kernel image from p1 thats fine. but why it expects to have /boot/ on p2 is mistery to me.
<heap_> as right now no /boot is specified in fstab
<heap_> and maybe thats the reason i dunno
<heap_> and as i said boot.cmd has these two important lines
<heap_> load ${devtype} ${devnum} ${ramdisk_addr_r} ${prefix}uInitrd
<heap_> load ${devtype} ${devnum} ${kernel_addr_r} ${prefix}zImage
<[TheBug]> please copy your whole boot.cmd file into a pastebin and post it here
<[TheBug]> I will look at it when I have a chance to see what you have configured and try to offer feedback
<[TheBug]> though right now I am very busy with my #dayjob
<[TheBug]> so you will have to be patient
<[TheBug]> Also in the meantime
<[TheBug]> which I believe is pretty close to what you are wanting to do
<[TheBug]> so may include some extra information to get you pointed in the right directioin
<[TheBug]> in fact it is even on using the same device you are I am pretty sure
<[TheBug]> for example, you probably want to look for a line similar to: ext4load mmc 0 0x46000000 /boot/zImage || fatload mmc 0 0x46000000 zImage
<heap_> [TheBug]: okay; thanks https://paste.debian.net/1200763/
<heap_> [TheBug]: only line setenv rootdev "/dev/mmcblk${devnum}p2" was update from setenv rootdev "/dev/mmcblk${devnum}p1" to setenv rootdev "/dev/mmcblk${devnum}p2"
<cheakoirccloud> https://paste.debian.net/1200764/ Error in ipv6 reject?
<heap_> [TheBug]: also ext4load mmc 0 0x49000000 /boot/dtb/${fdtfile} || fatload mmc 0 0x49000000 /dtb/${fdtfile} that doesnt say where /boot sits. ie on partition p1 or p2
<cheakoirccloud> Also, how do I get dynamic debug messages? Like: https://elixir.bootlin.com/linux/v5.13-rc5/source/drivers/net/dsa/mv88e6xxx/port.c#L1152
<[TheBug]> cheakoirccloud: what device is that
<cheakoirccloud> Espressobin V7
<[TheBug]> ahh nice
<[TheBug]> don't think I have tested with the neweste kernel or one in that series
<[TheBug]> ohhhh
<[TheBug]> did you remove the default bonding and then it craped it's self?
<cheakoirccloud> I've been having network trouble for about 3 weeks, so as part of testing loading the "last" kernel was something I did for test and never undid-it.
<[TheBug]> I think I had issues where is you would unbind it from the bridge and try to bring it up it will poop
<heap_> [TheBug]: question would be line 30 in boot.cmd
<[TheBug]> yeah noting the dump in fact mentions the bridge cheakoirccloud
<cheakoirccloud> I don't think I've see n that.
<[TheBug]> WARNING: CPU: 1 PID: 0 at net/bridge/br_switchdev.c:46 nbp_switchdev_frame_mark+0x20/0x30 [bridge]
<[TheBug]> are you manipulating bond0 at all
<[TheBug]> or just using it how it boots?
<[TheBug]> heap_: will check in a few here
<cheakoirccloud> I have to enslave the interfaces manually.
<heap_> [TheBug]: bc at the beggining i set setenv rootdev "/dev/mmcblk${devnum}p2"
<[TheBug]> I think lanefu and I had a discussion about using bonding in that way, I don't care for it cause I had some issues, but I think the decsion was to do it that way to make it 'easier' for most users
<heap_> [TheBug]: but line 30
<heap_> setenv rootdev "/dev/mmcblk${mmc_bootdev}p1"
<heap_> changed it back to p1
<cheakoirccloud> It only works at all under systemd-networkd. Though there is nobody who can help debug the bond.
<[TheBug]> yeah I think something is broken in the driver tbh
<cheakoirccloud> That might be, but it's working great, only the networking tools networkd/networkmanager have problems. If I use just iproute2 everything is glorious.
<heap_> its one big mess.
<cheakoirccloud> I'm getting this vlan failure error and trying to get debugging from the driver, to work on this un-related error message.
<[TheBug]> cheakoirccloud: to give you an idea, the most stable kernel I have tested to date is Linux espressobin 5.4.45 and it even exhibits some bugs in that driver as I was saying
<[TheBug]> on occasion I will down the bond interface to split out the devices
<[TheBug]> and I have even seen it kernel panic so bad it reboots
<[TheBug]> yeah
<cheakoirccloud> I don't see any of that... I just see the user level tools freaking out over nothing, whatever they were having problems with is gone the moment I run a few `ip` commands.
<[TheBug]> hmm yeah I don't get that
<[TheBug]> I would say there is some new bug introduced somewhere
<[TheBug]> which isn't helpful cause that drive sucks already in general
<[TheBug]> for the topaz switch
<[TheBug]> driver*
<[TheBug]> um
<[TheBug]> if you want cheakoirccloud to just document the versions of stuff you are running for me in a past and send it to me in PM I will load the same image on an EBin 7 later tonight and do some testing my self if you want
<[TheBug]> paste*
<stipa> cheakoirccloud: rarely anyone have had luck with ebin
<heap_> something is fundamentaly broken; so uboot loads boot.scr from p1 and also zImage; but if zImage is missing on p2 it doesnt boot ; i cant image how it can read zImage in parelel from p1 and p2
<[TheBug]> does it give any error or you are just asuming once you rename that folder it isn't booting?
<stipa> cheakoirccloud: there's someone overhere wantinh to buy another wifi card and try it out
<heap_> Device 0: unknown device
<heap_> Device 0: unknown device
<heap_> and starts to boot from network
<stipa> cheakoirccloud: check the logs of #armbian if there are any, search for "espressobin"
<heap_> give up. it goes nowhere.
<cheakoirccloud> stipa: I see where someone would think(even get the impression) it's broken, but it's not totally the fault of hardware or kernel drivers.
<stipa> cheakoirccloud: it's bad support from the marvel
<cheakoirccloud> I don't see that at all... I see non-existant support from systemd devs and just started using network manager, but they also have support issues.
<stipa> it's lack of information to get it to work, wich is on the side of maevell
<cheakoirccloud> I don't know what u expect marvel to do is iproute2 works 100% of the time.
<cheakoirccloud> s/is/if
<ArmbianHelper> cheakoirccloud meant to say: I don't know what u expect marvel to do if iproute2 works 100% of the time.
<stipa> cheakoirccloud: it's like that, you won't see everything in logs
<stipa> there are bugs all over the place
<stipa> and lack of support
<stipa> it's broken
<cheakoirccloud> The simple question is "what's wrong?"
<stipa> hardware hackers are more than capable to make things work with right information
<stipa> cheakoirccloud: no support from marvell is culprit
<[TheBug]> cheakoirccloud: put out a working driver that is hot garbage like it has been from the start -- I would love Marvell to do that, but since Globalscale cheaped out on their commitment to it and never funded any additional driver work, I don't have much hope
<[TheBug]> s/is/is not
<ArmbianHelper> [TheBug] meant to say: cheakoirccloud: put out a working driver that is not hot garbage like it has been from the start -- I would love Marvell to do that, but since Globalscale cheaped out on their commitment to it and never funded any additional driver work, I don't have much hope
<Tenkawa> stipa: addendum... and without proper engineering diagrams/code access its hard to fix bugs ... thus the problem with most proproetary products that just get side binned
<heap_> the edit of boot.cmd ie rootdev does change rootdev but also apparently it is then assuming that /boot has to sit on rootdev ; so i am not able to make /boot as a separate device.
<[TheBug]> cheakoirccloud: to give you an idea I own more than 5 EBins from v4 to v7 and I used to use it as my primary NAS platform -- I have now moved all but one to using RockPi 4c (rk3399) if that gives you any indication of my expectations for EBin
<[TheBug]> I literally have 4 boards sitting idle
<cheakoirccloud> The issue I have is getting debug messages from the drivers... I don't at all get responding with OMG the ppl who wrote the drivers made it impossible to get the debug messages so give up.
<stipa> Tenkawa: right, just a bunch of wasted hardware with potential
<Tenkawa> yep
<[TheBug]> no I am not saying give up
<[TheBug]> I am just setting expecatations
<[TheBug]> I am sure it can be fixed
<[TheBug]> but from what I have been told by multiple devs that actuall have any insight on the platform they have 100% no interest in working on it anymore
<[TheBug]> if you have the time, please please fix it, but I am not going to be one able to provide any guidance on that
<cheakoirccloud> https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/v4.19/admin-guide/dynamic-debug-howto.html <--- how does this work in #armbian?
<[TheBug]> I can test and see if I can reproduce the issue for you
<[TheBug]> so you can better submit it to mailing list or such if you want
<Tenkawa> [TheBug]: thats the key... if you aren't going to get manuf support and they won't relax restrictions on the hardware you are fighting a neverending uphill battle
<[TheBug]> but I am not the person to mess with drivers
<Tenkawa> broadcom is notorious for this
<[TheBug]> cheakoirccloud: I think I know what youa re asking now and the person or persons whom can probably best answer that is going to be IgorPec or lanefu most likely
<heap_> boot.cmd: setenv devnum ${mmc_bootdev}
<heap_> so they set devnum from mmc_bootdev and mmc_bootdev is not initialized in boot.cmd
<[TheBug]> yeah I actually think heap_ what your looking for is to change devnum to something like 0:1 or 0:2 to spec which partition
<[TheBug]> however, I can't say for certain, you will have to test to see if that helps you
<heap_> it is not separating boot from rootfs
<heap_> thats the problem
<heap_> it looking for /boot on rootfs
<heap_> so maybe whole design is broken
<[TheBug]> I would have to actually stop and read to better understand it my self -- https://linux-sunxi.org/U-Boot is always the best place to start also going on irc.oftc and join #linux-sunxi one of the sunxi guys can probably more quickly answer what you need
<heap_> and also thats why tehre is no separate /boot and / partition once its installed
<heap_> but this migth be out of sync with armbian .
<cheakoirccloud> `If CONFIG_DYNAMIC_DEBUG is not set, print_hex_dump_debug() is just shortcut for print_hex_dump(KERN_DEBUG).`
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<iwkse> it gets stuck when I set the wifi and wpa_supplicant, https://dpaste.org/L023
<stipa> iwkse: do you see a station you want to connect to on the scan?
<stipa> do you see it using 'iw list' command?
<iwkse> stipa: I can't get the prompt, I've connected to the uart to watch the output
<iwkse> it gets stuck at loading before the prompt
<iwkse> but if I set the lan it's okay
<heap_> [TheBug]: u see its not trivial task. as u thought.
<stipa> iwkse: if it's using wpa_supplicant to connect there's config file somewhere on the card
<[TheBug]> heap_: if it was me and I wasn't trying to review things while working and had full attention to it, I would read all the documentation and do the searching my self -- thing is I am currently doing like 6 different things at the moment, so reading uboot docs isn't high on my priority list at all
<iwkse> stipa: yes
<stipa> iwkse: try to peek into that file
<iwkse> it's in /etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf
<stipa> maybe something is misconfigured
<stipa> wrong password or wrong ssid name
<stipa> ...
<stipa> if your AP is running DHCP server
<iwkse> seems to be fine
<stipa> then you need to run 'dhclient' after wpa_supplicant
<iwkse> I would like to run on lan, than try manually wifi
<iwkse> in the interfaces it's setup a static ip
<stipa> you want to ssh into armbian via lan?
<stipa> like via ethernet cable?
<iwkse> yes
<iwkse> or also with uart
<iwkse> even better
<stipa> then you need to set lan card with 'ifconfig'
<iwkse> so I can just configure wifi manually and see if works
<stipa> you need usb to serial if you want to ssh into it via serial port
<iwkse> I was setting to /etc/network/interfaces
<iwkse> with lan it's okay
<iwkse> but wifi not
<iwkse> stipa: yes I already have, otherwise I couldn't get the output I pasted
<iwkse> I can try that way
<stipa> i don't know /etc/network/interfaces ,i do it manually with commands
<iwkse> I don't want to install ubuntu server :)
<iwkse> I've see it seems it works with ubuntu server aotb
<iwkse> this way https://dpaste.org/kwZY
<stipa> so neither your ethernet nor wifi work now?
<iwkse> ethernet is okay
<iwkse> just I can't get it to boot with wifi
<stipa> try to uncomment wpa_supplicant lines from /etc/network/interfaces
<stipa> and enter command manually
<iwkse> yup
<stipa> i have a cool command, wait till i find it
<stipa> one liner: wpa_supplicant -B -i INTERFACE -c <(wpa_passphrase MYSSID PASSPHRASE)
<stipa> it should tell you what's wrong too
<stipa> if there are problems
<[TheBug]> heap_: check your PM please
<[TheBug]> heap_: if you do I may be able to get you some help but gotta be quick about it
<[TheBug]> heap_: better be quick or my buddy is gonna go to sleep and you will get no help
<iwkse> stipa: something wrong with drivers https://dpaste.org/RBf1
<iwkse> such driver is not loaded
<iwkse> modprobe: FATAL: Module nl80211 not found in directory /lib/modules/5.10.21-sunxi
<stipa> damn
<iwkse> weird
<stipa> what's the output of 'iw dev' 'iwconfig'
<iwkse> also iwconfig finds it
<iwkse> will check
<Tenkawa> iwkse: check rfkill too
<Tenkawa> it might just be disabled
<Tenkawa> sudo rfkill
<Tenkawa> 0 wlan phy0 unblocked unblocked
<Tenkawa> 1 bluetooth hci0 unblocked unblocked
<Tenkawa> make sure interfaces show up at all and they are unblocked
<iwkse> Tenkawa: yes could be
<iwkse> they are unblocked
<Tenkawa> ok.. let me look at your initial paste
<Tenkawa> I only read the most recent 2
<Tenkawa> just a sec
<iwkse> now it worked, it says initialized successfully, with nl80211
<iwkse> mm
<Tenkawa> ahh cool
<iwkse> will have to provide the configuration
<iwkse> let's see
<iwkse> because it doesn't give an ip
<Tenkawa> yeah... rarp is annoying
<Tenkawa> bootp is a pain
<Tenkawa> pxe etc
<Tenkawa> I had a horrible time with it in my network days
<iwkse> :|
<iwkse> with lan here works perfectr
<iwkse> just wifi
<Tenkawa> and that was a long long time ago
<Tenkawa> yeah
<Tenkawa> just wifi
<Tenkawa> lan is fine
<Tenkawa> wireless = pain
<Tenkawa> lol
<stipa> iwkse: ifconfig wlan0 "IP" up
<iwkse> Tenkawa: lol
<iwkse> stipa: will try, maybe it just works
<stipa> maybe, or if you have dhcp server on ap run 'dhclient wlan0' after the wpa_supplicant and you'll get the ip from the AP
<iwkse> can't ping :\
<stipa> 'ifconfig' should show you if you have an IP
<iwkse> I get the ip6 by default
<iwkse> when I manually set it to ip4 it doesn't ping
<stipa> try to unplug the ethernet cable
<iwkse> it's wifi
<stipa> i know, it could interfere
<stipa> since you stil don't have a bridge betweene wifi and ethernet
<stipa> what's the output of 'route -n'
<[TheBug]> iwkse: yeah my though it it either isn't setting default route or adding network to route table -- think thats what stipa is getting to
<[TheBug]> route add -net dev eth0; route add default gw; for example
<iwkse> will try
<iwkse> stipa: it's not connected
<iwkse> I only have uart and wifi
<stipa> ok
<[TheBug]> ohh if the ipv6 you see starts with fe80 that is just link local
<[TheBug]> not it actually getting an ipv6 address
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<iwkse> I would like to disable it from the kernel
<iwkse> and see what h appens
<stipa> #disable ipv6
<stipa> sysctl -w net.ipv6.conf.all.disable_ipv6=1
<stipa> sysctl -w net.ipv6.conf.default.disable_ipv6=1
<stipa> sysctl -w net.ipv6.conf.lo.disable_ipv6=1
<[TheBug]> iwkse: did you paste a dmesg yet of your setup, I am wondering if its even loading the driver right
<iwkse> will do
<stipa> [TheBug]: i think his network manger service is running too
<stipa> but he'll loose ethernet connection if he stops it
<iwkse> [TheBug]: in lsmod there's no trace of nl80211
<iwkse> so also in dmesg
<iwkse> I have to use a better console stuff, I'm using now arduino logger and it's not handy
<stipa> what's the board?
<iwkse> orange pi zero
<iwkse> Hardware : Allwinner sun8i Family
<stipa> XR819 wifi chip
<[TheBug]> yeah and drivers for xradio are pretty poop anyways
<[TheBug]> did you get a chance to show dmesg ?
<iwkse> lspci can't help
<iwkse> yes xradio ones
<[TheBug]> dmesg into a pastebin so we can see if its loading drivers correct and what output its putting there
<iwkse> [TheBug]: trying with a better terminal
<[TheBug]> least we can confirm for you it is loading or not
<iwkse> terminal/console
<[TheBug]> k
<stipa> seems like it does, it's in the output of iw dev and iwconfig
<stipa> and it got connected to the ap but there is no ip
<iwkse> yes
<iwkse> with xradio at this point
<iwkse> but I've run wpa_supplicant with -Dnl80211
<stipa> you probably have some routes that network manager put there
<stipa> and traffic doesn't go in the right direction
<stipa> try disabling it
<stipa> sudo systemctl disable NetworkManager.service
<stipa> reboot
<stipa> and go over it again
<stipa> this time you won't have ethernet working
<iwkse> will try
<stipa> but you can check if wifi will work
<iwkse> can't find the service
<[TheBug]> are you running dhclient to lease an IP once you are connected?
<[TheBug]> if you are bringing up the connection outside of networkmanager
<[TheBug]> then I would manually run 'dhclient wlan0'
<iwkse> [7mlines 88-110 [27m [K
<iwkse> [Knetwork-online.target [m
<[TheBug]> once its in state 'up'
<iwkse> with dclient it gets stuck
<[TheBug]> you should be able to confirm state by checking 'ip -a'
<[TheBug]> example: wlan0: <BROADCAST,MULTICAST> mtu 1500 qdisc noop state DOWN group default qlen 1000
<[TheBug]> this would show it is in a down state
<[TheBug]> in would say UP if it is actually connected
<iwkse> ip -a gives the help page
<iwkse> it's down
<[TheBug]> yeah so wpa supplicant is lieing to you and its probablky never bringing it up actually
<[TheBug]> I looked at second paste let me see first
<[TheBug]> ohh was hoping it was dmesg
<[TheBug]> if its not loading and there are errors they will be in 'dmesg'
<iwkse> installed putty
<iwkse> will do with it
<[TheBug]> and should be verbose enough for you to have an idea
<stipa> iwkse: also you could have in AP somewhere who is temporary connected to it
<iwkse> hope that's good enough
<stipa> [ 747.564389] xradio TXRX-WRN: received frame has no key status
<stipa> [ 747.564408] xradio TXRX-WRN: dropped received frame
<Xogium> oh, our old friend xradio again
<stipa> [ 751.489775] wlan0: deauthenticated from c4:41:1e:31:e3:56 (Reason: 2=PREV_AUTH_NOT_VALID)
<stipa> it connects and disconnects due to an error
<iwkse> right
<iwkse> I noticed that time ago too
<iwkse> because it was assigning the ip than lose it
<stipa> yeah, there's some info about that error on the forum
<iwkse> oh nice
<stipa> 5 threads
<stipa> 6*
<rneese> but I want 6 threads
<rneese> or maybe 8 or 12
<rneese> lol
<iwkse> :)
<stipa> yeah, but it's chip crisis
<stipa> no threads...
<rneese> what is armbian and how do you use it? does it work on all platforms
<rneese> can it make my hardware work better
<iwkse> stipa: is the archlinux link you sent before?
<iwkse> or armbian forum
<stipa> armbian forum
<iwkse> found it
<rneese> forums.armbian.com
<rneese> use it or loose it
<rneese> get it got it good
<rneese> lol
<stipa> without s
<stipa> forum.armbian.com
<stipa> :D
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<Tenkawa> now this is fun.. the nice thing about big.little odroids
<Tenkawa> more /proc/cpuinfo | grep processor | wc -l
<Tenkawa> 6
<Tenkawa> 6 cores... always comes in handy
<stipa> you should see the build server
<stipa> for armbain
<stipa> htop doesn't fit the screen
<stipa> the threadripper one
<Xogium> hehe
<Xogium> CPU(s): 24 On-line CPU(s) list: 0-23
<Xogium> okay this is a bit of a cheat: there are 2 actual cpu in there
<[TheBug]> fun
<[TheBug]> Xogium: your new computer arrive?
<Xogium> [TheBug]: not yet :'(
<[TheBug]> aww was hoping that was it ;p
<[TheBug]> hehehe was getting excited for ya ;p
<Tenkawa> stipa: I have so wanted a threadripper
<Xogium> nup this is a xeon l5639 server, or well, dual xeon in this case
<stipa> Tenkawa: that's proper sick stuff i guess
<Tenkawa> my build machine is just a i7 12 thread
<Xogium> older cpu but performs okay for what I ask it, considering it's for such an old beasty
<Tenkawa> and 6 node rpi4 cluster
<Xogium> but well, my ryzen 7 3700x will blow this server out of the water, for damn sure
<Tenkawa> this thing is just scary
<Xogium> even though it is only a 8 core 16 threads istead of 12 cores 24 threads
<Tenkawa> (but the price tag is scarier)
<Xogium> well, the ryzen threadreaper 3990x is worth about 4000 usd to itself
<Xogium> the cpu, not the entire machine you build around it
<Tenkawa> yeah the machine you have to put around it is whats nuts
<Xogium> yep
<Tenkawa> I just want a server
<Xogium> I suspect the bottleneck is the m2 ssd itself, pcie 4
<Tenkawa> give me a server case that can run that cpu and I'd be happy
<Xogium> I saw linus tech tips testing it
<Tenkawa> yeah saw that
<Xogium> they even managed to cool it with a noctua nh-d15 I believe it was
<Tenkawa> dont need my cats hugging my machine
<Tenkawa> lol
<Xogium> hehe
<Xogium> linus tech tips is a very fun channel to watch
<Xogium> especially the two videos where we actually see him dropping stuff
<Xogium> dropped the bran new cpu for a build for someone
<Tenkawa> heh
<Xogium> and check this out ! Core i9… 10 hundred… big silence, k !
<Xogium> oops
<Xogium> and the vido on pcie gen 3 vs gen 4, right after the into the motherboard that stands on display tilts and falls down
<Xogium> *intro
<Xogium> surprised these were not edited out hehe
<stipa> yeah, that channel is literally making videos about everything on the market
<stipa> not just the sponsored ones
<stipa> i see also open source stuff there
<Xogium> yeah
<stipa> but they do throw some sponsors in those too
<Xogium> they really know what they're talking about
<stipa> yeah, good research
<stipa> some videos have good quality research behind them
<stipa> and it's well spoken out
<Xogium> yup
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<iwkse> stipa: seems like the issue is in the cipher type
<iwkse> I could get connected using CCMP but bot TKIP
<iwkse> not*
<iwkse> while on the ubuntu image, using the kernel 3.4 I could also connect with TKIP
<heap_> ops this might go maybe here
<heap_> is that issue still open https://armbian.atlassian.net/browse/AR-614 ; i am the zfs still doesnt work with the current kernel 5.10.34-sunxi ; thanks
<ArmbianHelper> AR-614 [Task] "Upgrade ZFS packages" reported by Igor Pecovnik at 2021-01-17. Status: Done
<heap_> its maybe somehow connected to https://github.com/openzfs/zfs/issues/11444
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<stipa> ikmaak: dunno, don't know anything much about encryption types, maybe it can be enabled during the build of an armbian image
<stipa> iwkse: *
<stipa> maybe you don0t have that module in your kernel
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<iwkse> stipa: I've just changed encryption, it's good not to use TKIP anyway as it's old and unsecure
<forestj> hi I have an opportunity to go to an event soon to have a booth with my local tech org and I was thinking about maybe bringing some SBCs (loaded up with armbian of course!) to give people something cool to look at
<forestj> I was thinking about trying to power them with solar panels and batteries for extra cool points
<forestj> but I have never done that before -- has anyone here ever experimented with that ? running something like an odroid xu4 outside with a battery ?
<stipa> forestj: peeps in ##music-electronics talk about that stuff all the time
<stipa> no
<stipa> ##electronics
<stipa> batteries and solar panels