klange changed the topic of #osdev to: Operating System Development || Don't ask to ask---just ask! || For 3+ LoC, use a pastebin (for example https://gist.github.com/) || Stats + Old logs: http://osdev-logs.qzx.com New Logs: https://libera.irclog.whitequark.org/osdev || Visit https://wiki.osdev.org and https://forum.osdev.org || Books: https://wiki.osdev.org/Books
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<GreaseMonkey> currently doing some more "bad 16-bit slash 64-bit fanfiction", does anyone know how to get and set base addresses for FS and GS in x86-64? because if you try to read or write them normally in 64-bit mode, they break
<GreaseMonkey> well, "normally" as in treating them like segment registers
<kazinsal> you need to use MSRs
<kazinsal> there's FSBASE and GSBASE MSRs that do exactly what it says on the tin
<GreaseMonkey> ah, alright
<kazinsal> there's also a swapgs instruction that swaps the GS base address between the GSBASE and KERNELGSBASE MSRs
<kazinsal> iirc these are core specific and not global
<GreaseMonkey> seems rdfsbase/wrfsbase is also a thing
<zid`> break?
<GreaseMonkey> as in it seems to reset their base addresses weirdly?
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<zid`> oh normally as in mov fs? yea no that doesn't do anything
<kazinsal> I believe you need to set a flag in... some MSR to do those
<kazinsal> or maybe it's in CR3
<kazinsal> er, CR0
<kazinsal> because they're CPL=3 accessible
<zid`> IA32_KERNEL_GS_BASE 0xC0000102
<zid`> and then ivy?+ has fsgsbase
<kazinsal> bit 16 in CR4 is FSGSBASE_ENABLE
<GreaseMonkey> ah alright
<kazinsal> for those specific user mode instructions
<kazinsal> you can always use FSBASE and GSBASE MSRs in ring 0
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<kof673> hmm... i have to make a dummy __main() that just returns 0, in addition to normal main(), transfer the object file to the pdp11 side, and link on the pdp11 side, and then pdp11-bsd2.11-gcc magically works :D else, segfault :/
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<nikolar> kof673: are you using GCC to write code that would run on bsd2.11?
<nikolar> I haven't tried that because I couldn't figure out the syscall abi lol
<kof673> that was just hello world...__main() seems to come from libgcc maybe... and tries to pull in atexit() too ? well hello, world works, that is all i am doing :D
<kof673> but i still link on the pdp side, so just send a hello.o file over to the pdp11, compiled on the host linux side with gcc
<nikolar> You're probably better of going freestanding and doing your own syscalls
<nikolar> Including the program termination
<kof673> well i mean....if it means you have a compiler besides the k&r one i guess it is useful for someone :D
<nikolar> Oh it is
<nikolar> I just don't think it works on bsd without some massaging
<kof673> well, ask me in 6 months whether something more advanced than hello, world breaks :D
<kof673> i need -ansi too because gcc "Fixes" headers and the defaults e.g. do not declare printf, so the "Fixed" headers gcc makes are wrapped in some ifdefs, ansi is one way to turn them on
<kof673> (or gcc "fixes" just seems to add prototypes maybe)
<nikolar> We should write our own libc for the bsd lol
<kof673> the install tarball i had, makes a tape to install from. so there are tar files... but not for /lib so i had to copy crt0.o mcrt0.o and libc.a out from a running system. earlier i just made dummy files for gcc and symlink to libc_p.a (since that was in the tarball). linux "restore" cannot read the root "dump" file that probably has those
<kof673> so i did have to install first to get 3 files out...
<nikolar> Huh that's weird
<kof673> i just made a hex encoder/decoder so i copy/paste into vi on both sides lol and linux "sum" utility matches the bsd one i guess :D
<kof673> so i transfer files like that for now lol
<nikolar> Though actually I'm not sure if I've installed bsd or just got an image
<nikolar> I did install v7
<nikolar> You can ftp
<bslsk05> ​bsdimp.blogspot.com: Warner's Random Hacking Blog: SIMH Setup for 2.11BSD restoration project
<kof673> well, that one i don't think has networking
<nikolar> You can configure it
<kof673> those instructions work, just maybe 10 minutes on the tar steps
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<kof673> i gotta sleep, but anyways :D
<nikolar> I did implement base64 for the v7 so I can transfer files lol
<kof673> what is nice is hello world is like 4000b or 2000 stripped, but the little object files is like < 300. so this is not too bad to transfer object file over and link
<kof673> it was a long paste yanking the libc.a out lol
<kof673> had to make a larger terminal buffer lol
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<kof673> for reference, i used binutils 2.20.1 just had it lying around, and gcc 4.1.2 but you can maybe go up to 4.3.2 or so before it was obsoleted ?
<nikolar> Lol
<nikolar> What are you referring to
<kof673> pdp11 target was apparently obsoleted in gcc 4.3.3 or so, unless it was added back? just what a random message board said, i just used the versions they used
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<kazinsal> nikolar: I would recommend doing what I do an putting the local unmedicated psychotics on ignore
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<the_oz> he's only saying that because he finds conversations with his ignoreds too troublesome to parse
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<kof673> unless i screwed up, i believe it has the mysterious pdp11 "big across 16-bit words, little within 16-bit words" endian :) unsigned long l = 256 | (256 << 8) # casts omitted for brevity l[0]: 1 l[1]: 0 l[2]: 0 l[3]: 1
* kof673 zzzzzzzzzzzzzz
<geist> yeah. it's a little endian machine but for 32bit loads it load the words in different order
<geist> hence middle endian
<nikolar> geist: have you cross-compiled anything to pdp-11
<geist> not really. i have been meaning to, but aside from fiddling with assembly a little bit i haven't really tested it much
<nikolar> yeah i figured i'd need to do my own syscalls and i just couldn't find much documentation on how to do that
<nikolar> and reading the libc assembly was annoying lol
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<dormito> anyone know about ABI specific link time library selection? Especially for static libraries? I know I've seen gcc (or maybe it's binutils that has the logic) chose between different flavors of libraries depending on ABI choices (hardfloat vs softfloat is a relatively common one)
<clever> ive only seen it doing that with libgcc.a
<clever> but i can imagine it would use the same path prefixes for other libraries
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<nikolapdp> let's see how long the emulator survives now
<nikolapdp> btw, pdp's bac
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<Ermine> hey pdp
<nikolapdp> ello Ermine
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<zid`> nikolapdp: It'd survive less time if you actually used it
<nikolapdp> i am using it, aren't it
<nikolapdp> s/it/i
<Ermine> you forgot / in the end
<Ermine> btw it shouldn't be hard to make pdp replica, should it?
<nikolapdp> it would've replaced the wrong "it" anyway ke
<nikolapdp> Ermine, in what sens
<nikolapdp> there are a couple of fpga versions
<Ermine> it's a bunch of transistors
<nikolapdp> kek, i meant more specifically
<Ermine> if you wire them the right way, you get a pdp
<nikolapdp> and if you wire them slightly differently you get an iapx 432
<zid`> nikolapdp: how many mkvs of goats has it transcoded?
<zid`> that's what I consider using a machine
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<Ermine> til iapx 432
<nikolapdp> kek
<nikolapdp> zid, none so far
<nikolapdp> i am yet to port ffmpeg
<zid`> can you build any version of nethack for it?
<nikolapdp> probably
<nikolapdp> when was the first version released
<zid`> 1982
<zid`> 1987*
<nikolapdp> 87?
<zid`> yes?
<nikolapdp> i am going with "maybe you could get it working"
<nikolapdp> there was hack for pdp-11 apparently
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<nikolapdp> oi heat, pdp's back
<zid`> if you compile nethack 3.4.3 for it
<zid`> I will telnet in and beat it
<nikolapdp> kek
<nikolapdp> is 128k ram enough for nethack
<heat> do you have a new bsd install at least?
<nikolapdp> nope
<zid`> I don't think so really, it'd be REAL tight
<zid`> just loading in
<nikolapdp> yeah thought so
<zid`> I could oom it trivially from there
<nikolapdp> btw that 128k is split between data and program address spaces
<nikolapdp> so even harder to fit presumably
<zid`> it absolutely won't fit then
<nikolapdp> i'll try the earliest version i can find
<nikolapdp> which is 1.3d apparently
<zid`> can you buy more ram
<heat> you should upgrade to one of those newfangled vaxes
<nikolapdp> zid`, you can, but a process can only see up to 128k
<zid`> Unix (*BSD, System V, Solaris, HP-UX, ...)
<zid`> BeOS
<zid`> VMS
<nikolapdp> the whole system can go up to 4mb or something, i forgor
<zid`> + binaries for win/dos/linux/ce/os2/mac/amiga/atari
<nikolapdp> what's that for
<zid`> nethack 3.4.3
<zid`> can you install vms
<zid`> instead of pdp
<nikolapdp> lol, i could get a vax emulator if that's what you're asknig
<zid`> you wouldn't download a vax
<nikolapdp> but i would :(
<heat> >but a process can only see up to 128k
<heat> PIPES
<heat> ALL OF THEM
<nikolapdp> yes
<heat> #musl wet dream
<nikolapdp> split nethack into separate communicating processes, and i'll port it to bsd 2.11
<zid`> Can you put like, your inventory in a different process
<zid`> and they all draw to the screen independently
<zid`> you have FOUR MEGS
<nikolapdp> probably
<nikolapdp> you even have select() so you can wait on multiple things :P
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<nikolapdp> (v7 couldn't do that)
<zid`> oh, you're going to have a master control program?
<zid`> what are we, tron
<nikolapdp> indede
<heat> SELECT
<heat> TOP TIER TECHNOLOGY HERE
<nikolapdp> concurrency baby
<heat> beautifully amish system
<heat> only quaint technology allowed
<nikolapdp> what more do you need really
<nikolapdp> you even have networking
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<heat-onyx> i need 30M to just boot
<heat-onyx> BIG METAL ONYX
<nikolapdp> wow
<zid`> onyx is a mineral though
<nikolapdp> go hang out with your ibm buddies
<zid`> big rock onyx
<heat-onyx> 11M of page cache, 19M of mysterious totally not horse meat
<nikolapdp> kek
<heat-onyx> fwiw i need procfs so i can more easily track slab and memory stats
<heat-onyx> 20M of heap and anon feels a little excessive
<nikolapdp> indeed
<nikolapdp> coudln't run on an i386sx
<heat-onyx> shame the kernel heap isn't swappable
<heat-onyx> *sad dave cutler noises*
<nikolapdp> kek
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<heat-onyx> l
<heat-onyx> oops
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<zid`> loops
<heat> LOOPS
<heat> allowing loops was a mistake
<nikolapdp> yes, we should do recursion instead
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<heat> HASKELL
<heat> LFG
<zid`> looking for group?
<heat> :eyesemoji:
<heat> have i mentioned how musl iconv replaces non-ascii characters with * so every a non-ascii character shows up it looks like someone's swearing
<nikolapdp> kek
<nikolapdp> at least it's better than random garbage i get
<heat> well this is utf8
<heat> and my vterm is UTF-8 READY(tm)
<nikolapdp> not ready enough apparently
<heat> please don't write composable codepoints
<nikolapdp> kek
<heat> or right-to-left text
<nikolapdp> i can't even if i wanted :P
<heat> or arabic in general probably
<heat> nah it's ready but i'm setting LANG=C in the environment by default
<heat> i want... C.UTF-8
<zid`> # locale
<zid`> LANG=C.UTF-8
<nikolapdp> yeah what zid said
<zid`> mine's set from /etc/env.d/02locale
<nikolapdp> also i thought musl didn't care about localization stuff
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<zid`> # tail -n1 /etc/locale.gen
<zid`> en_GB UTF-8
<zid`> and this is a thing
<heat> musl has some locale support
<zid`> idk what it does!
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<heat> alpine and void all have their own localization of musl internal strings too IIRC
<nikolapdp> zid, i imagine it doesn't do too much for various english locales
<nikolapdp> but if i set LANG=sr_RS.UTF-8 i can get a bunch of programs to output in serbian
<zid`> do you have like
<zid`> en_rs for latin
<zid`> and cy_rs
<zid`> for cyrlrilicaic
<heat> programs should output in serbian by default because SERBIA STRONK
<heat> but yes i hate that
<nikolapdp> sr_RS and sr_RS@latin
<nikolapdp> heat hate what
<zid`> v
<zid`> sr_RS sr_RS@latin
<zid`> yea just found it myself
<nikolapdp> kek
<heat> localizated unix utility messages
<zid`> /usr/share/i81n/locales/*RS*
<nikolapdp> you don't have to use it
<heat> i've had to parse gcc errors in portuguese to help friends out
<nikolapdp> kek
<zid`> what programs support serbian
<heat> warcrimesd
<nikolapdp> pacman does i think
<zid`> ratko mladic.c
<nikolapdp> i don't run with sr_RS so no clue
<zid`> that I'd have installed
<nikolapdp> i just turn it on sometimes for shits and giggles
<zid`> oh, man
<nikolapdp> lol i don't think that's quite right
<zid`> heat what's the difference betewen pt_PT and pt_PT@euro
<heat> no clue
<nikolapdp> oh yeah, vim supports it too
<heat> might be a historical artifact from the switch to the euro
<nikolapdp> what was the currency before euro
<heat> escudo
<zid`> should I use en_IE
<heat> yep it comes off with an irish accent
<zid`> It's like en_GB but it uses euros
<nikolapdp> oh you used the dollar sign too
<zid`> and semtex
<zid`> dollar is a spanish word anyway isn't it
<nikolapdp> i thin so
<zid`> if I do LC_MONETARY=sr_SR
<nikolapdp> ah no
<zid`> can I get rubles everywhere
<nikolapdp> dutch apparently
<zid`> I thought dutch was like, livre
<nikolapdp> zid, no we don't use those
<zid`> yes you do
<bslsk05> ​en.wiktionary.org: dollar - Wiktionary, the free dictionary
<zid`> oh, talers
<zid`> german
<zid`> I know those, yea
<nikolapdp> i thought it was spanish too for some reason
<heat> nikolapdp, https://i.imgur.com/4mmh7Tb.png does it look good?
<zid`> those subscript quotation marks, zomg
<zid`> serbian orthography nuts
<nikolapdp> yeah looks fine
<zid`> he mory da problem
<nikolapdp> zid` lol open and close quotation marks
<heat> onyx the official operating system of UN
<zid`> nporpam = program?
<zid`> It's like trying to read english with dyslexia
<nikolar> програм but yeah
<zid`> no, nporpam
<nikolapdp> kek
<heat> i seem to have remarkably few NLS-ready programs, wonder if i'm doing something wrong...
<nikolapdp> nls?
<heat> native language support
<nikolapdp> ah right
<nikolapdp> btw how are you rendering fonts heat
<nikolapdp> or is that a ps1 font or something
<zid`> it's a ps2 font, 480p
<heat> bdf font gets processed by a nifty python script i wrote, into a c file
<zid`> I stole a gnu font
<zid`> :D
<zid`> I like the macros it's funny
<bslsk05> ​github.com: boros/unifont.c at master · zid/boros · GitHub
<zid`> funny macros funny
<heat> i recently found out the old font i was using was AGPL so technically all the old versions of onyx were AGPL'd accidentally
<zid`> I stole it and removed the licence info
<heat> oh i have those too
<zid`> easier
<bslsk05> ​github.com: Onyx/kernel/scripts/bdf2c.py at net · heatd/Onyx · GitHub
<zid`> I had to fucking reorganize it into utf order
<zid`> it was in some random order
<zid`> using a lookup table
<zid`> so I wrote a program to eat all the glyphs, then spit them back out in for(i = 0; ) table[i] order
<bslsk05> ​github.com: Onyx/kernel/kernel/fonts/u_vga16.bdf.gz at net · heatd/Onyx · GitHub
<heat> which seems to support most of the basic unicode stuff
<heat> which is really nifty
<heat> it is quite large though, like 128KiB of data
<bslsk05> ​github.com: boros/unifont.c at master · zid/boros · GitHub
<zid`> ooh thunder
<sbalmos> and lightning?
<zid`> looks like it's missing me to the north as usual
<zid`> serbia had some thunder earlier
<zid`> at beorpaa
<zid`> christ, the storm off the US
<heat> yall have also had completely shit weather?
<zid`> I want :(
<sbalmos> I have no idea why I'm having such a mental block with seL4's capability CNode, CSlot, and CSpace. Just one of those weeks I guess
<heat> is sel4 written in C++?
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<sbalmos> most
<zid`> everything I found has been .s
<zid`> and .c
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<sbalmos> crap, yeah, I'm cloning right now. It's C
<heat> huh funky
<heat> C<something> is just one of those C++ things
<nikolar> zid`: was there?
<nikolar> seems nice and sunny over here
<heat> ahh i see sel4 is in the tight knit group of codebases i absolutely despise
<zid`> I like how you just accepted
<heat> through sheer use of snake case and camel case
<zid`> beorpaa
<nikolar> lol i didn't but i couldn't argue
<zid`> :D
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<nikolar> kek
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<sbalmos> heat: C<whatever> is just their prefix for anything dealing with a capability
<heat> omg they actually type seL4 in code
<nikolapdp> what do you mean
<heat> seL4_TCB_ReadRegisters
<zid`> nice
<heat> your shift key will wear out from this shit
<zid`> I've literally never seen that
<zid`> windows_get_proc_address
<heat> SDL also does something similar
<zid`> SDL_ is fine, that's like png_ or whatever, the weirdness is doing it outside of a library
<zid`> DiabloII_png_load()
<nikolar> kek
<heat> i dont think its fine, i like my snake case identifiers to all be lowercase
<heat> if camel case, then full camelcase
<heat> not a mix
<heat> the sel4 example is even worse cuz they even brand it as seL4 instead of sel4
<nikolapdp> kek
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<Ermine> I wonder if svn can bisect
<heat> why are you using svn?
<Ermine> vbox uses it
<childlikempress> svn2git and then git bisect
<heat> genius play
<Griwes> the only sane approach to doing anything in either svn or perforce, turn it into git first
<heat> dont use git, use got
<Ermine> if it does the same thing as git svn clone, it will take a lot of time
<heat> i've never used a vcs not named git or quilt
<Ermine> neither did i
<heat> quilt is absolutely BASED btw
<Ermine> aside from svn checkout
<heat> it's how the -mm tree worked for... 20 years
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<heat> they only switched to git 2 or 3 years ago
<Ermine> oh mein Gott...
<Ermine> meanwhile, svn2git uses git-svn
<heat> mofo so surprised he turned german
<Ermine> at some point I turn Polish
<Ermine> I can't type OMG in Polish rn though
<Ermine> anyway, git-svn commits each svn revision
<bslsk05> ​linux.die.net: Just a moment...
<Ermine> that saves the day
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<nikolar> what's a quilt
<heat> pretty sure we've talked about quilt a few weeks ago
<heat> its a bunch of scripts that help you manage stacks of patches
<zid`> gitkquilt when
gog is now known as pog
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<the_oz> I wish the world had chosen hg
<the_oz> I wish hg weren't so retarded as to refuse to implement a workaround to tag releases
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<geist> i've only really ever had to use mercurial as a way to grab some source for this or that project
<geist> so not entirely sure the real rough edges or whatnot