klange changed the topic of #osdev to: Operating System Development || Don't ask to ask---just ask! || For 3+ LoC, use a pastebin (for example https://gist.github.com/) || Stats + Old logs: http://osdev-logs.qzx.com New Logs: https://libera.irclog.whitequark.org/osdev || Visit https://wiki.osdev.org and https://forum.osdev.org || Books: https://wiki.osdev.org/Books
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<the_oz> actually handling what you can is great, but it shouldn't be a promise because obviously
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<kof673> well i don't know these things, just that seems the classic example
<kof673> that isn't dependent on hardware leaking attacks either
<kof673> it is just is the algorithm you use leaking or not
<the_oz> it's a timing attack, yeah
<the_oz> it definitely counts and is a good rebuttal
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<GreaseMonkey> ...welp, just discovered that the DOS debug tool has a "t" command to trace ops step by step and hot damn is it more useful than one would imagine at first
<GreaseMonkey> (FreeDOS specifically so it might be more useful than usual, but anyway)
<the_oz> single stepping is very nice
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<zid`> DEBUG>COM?
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<bslsk05> ​www.theregister.com: What is this computing industry anyway? • The Register
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<ddevault> anyone got the triplet handy for getting binutils and gcc to produce PE32+ executables for aarch64
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<ddevault> oh I seem to already have a binutils build directory with --target=aarch64-w64-mingw64
<ddevault> and now I'm starting to have a vague recollection of encountering capital-P Problems with it...
<nikolar> are you working on some arm uefi target or something
<ddevault> yes
<ddevault> my spouse wants me to set up an EFI sandbox for them for the raspi to play around with it
<nikolar> heh nice
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<ddevault> I guess I'll pull the latest binutils and gcc and build them for this triplet and see what happens
<ddevault> otherwise I guess I'm writing another fucking EFI stub
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<sortie> I updated my OS Sortix to GRUB 2.12 \o/
<zid`> update it to 0.97
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<sortie> lol
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<ddevault> nice, got a toolchain comprised of binutils for aarch64-w64-mingw64 and clang that seems to do the trick
<ddevault> which is to say it builds without error and spits out a binary that /usr/bin/file recognizes as an aarch64 PE32+ executable
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<nikolar> heh so couldn't get gcc to work?
<ddevault> nope
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<sortie> ddevault: woot
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<ddevault> does aarch64-w64-mingw64 binutils have a different assembly dialect from aarch64-none-elf
<ddevault> I am confused
<nikolar> what's the confusing code
<zid`> I wonder if you can build binutils to take intel syntax as default
<ddevault> .file 1 "<unknown>"
<ddevault> Error: missing string
<ddevault> and a bunch of other weird shit
<ddevault> oh
<ddevault> I see
<ddevault> .file et al only work with ELF targets
<ddevault> that's... going to be annoying
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<ddevault> wrote an EFI stub instead
<ddevault> I feel gross
<heat> enjoy relocation processing
<nikolar> lel
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<ddevault> done
<ddevault> wrote one EFI "hello world" in C and one in Hare
<ddevault> handing them off to the spouse to play with
<ddevault> with strict instructions not to read any of the disgusting EFIstub hacks
<heat> how about them relocations
<ddevault> took care of it
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<ddevault> already wrote an EFI stub thing for aarch64 in Hare before, reused a lot of its code (though took the opportunity to "improve" it insofar as that's possible here and there after a bit of hindsight)
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<ddevault> is Fuchsia still a serious project
<ddevault> or was it ever
<Ermine> In what sense?
<ddevault> like
<ddevault> do they have some kind of goal or amibition for it that they're working towards
<ddevault> I think it runs some of their embedded products
<Ermine> Afaik there are some Google Nests driven by Fuchsia
<mjg> it's geist's 20% project, he is doing css 80% of the time
<Ermine> Idk what goals do they pursue (and it seems common feeling about big IT companies to me). But geist might know more
<mjg> check out this funny quote (unrelated!) i found somewhere:
<mjg> > At this point we know if it isn't a joke, it will be.
<mjg> 8))
<mjg> someone is a nasty fucken' asshole
<netbsduser> ddevault: they seem very keen on it
<kof673> "if you weren't on a list before, you are now" -- snowden IIRC lol
<MelanieUrsidino> :o
<kof673> that's what he told the interviewer i believe :)
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<geist> ddevault: it's absolutely not my 20% project as mjg says
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<mjg> who is doing all the css then
<gog> me
<gog> i'm the web dev around here
<gog> i'll dev the fuck and or shit out of your web
<geist> there you go
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<mjg> is it css or js eating my cpu mon
<gog> it's js generating and applying style information at runtime with the style api
<gog> which is not something i am currently playing with
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<heat> hi geist
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<heat> mjg, mon is that thing i read about freebsd being limited to 64K fds still true?
<mjg> ???
<mjg> wat
<heat> maybe i misunderstood it but illumos has this problem and solaris also does
<bslsk05> ​github.com: freebsd-src/lib/libc/stdio/fdopen.c at master · freebsd/freebsd-src · GitHub
<the_oz> you can toggle that number. sysctl
<heat> you most certainly cannot toggle this lol
<mjg> lol
<mjg> dawg
<mjg> nobody serious fopens anything
<mjg> that kind of code is turob fucked everywhere
<mjg> global linkage and shit
<heat> >nobody serious fopens anything
<mjg> i stand by what i said
<mjg> you have code which fopens == you suck
<heat> i'm stopping myself from finding rampant usage
<mjg> i know there are people who do it
<mjg> just like they use strlcpy
<mjg> any issue stemming from the use of fopen et al is self-induced
<mjg> don't use it and be a better person
<the_oz> *peeks code*
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<heat> FILE is the only way to do portable file IO
<mjg> nobody serious is doing "portable file IO"
<heat> lol
<mjg> aka "the c standard"
<mjg> or "posix bro"
<mjg> by that standard you have to stick to poll or select
<mjg> the only portable i/o multiplexing
<heat> windows does not have select (for general files)
<mjg> which btw does not even take FILEs (kek)
<mjg> i wonder if fopen code properly craps out if open returns too big of a fd
<mjg> ye it think it's broken
<mjg> suppose you fopen with file creation
<bslsk05> ​github.com: freebsd-src/lib/libc/stdio/fopen.c at master · freebsd/freebsd-src · GitHub
<mjg> then this errors out but does not unlink the file
<heat> from srs searching it seems most srs programs (nginx, postgres) write their own file abstractions
<heat> because, of course, C
<mjg> do you appreciate how fucked the libc is
<mjg> in terms of things like FILE
<heat> yes
<nikolar> We need a new and improved libc
<heat> i found the single biggest user of stdio btw
<mjg> don't use
<heat> you'll love it
<mjg> nikolar: rust made it obsolete mon
<heat> 👏 sea 👏 plus 👏 plus
<nikolar> mjg lol obviously
<heat> fwiw i suspect removing C and C++ stdio coupling is hard or at least completely fucked
<heat> oh well
<heat> they play around with buffering from the C++ side so things kinda work
<mjg> c++ shittersZ
<heat> does the rust stdlib use fopen?
<heat> probably not?
<mjg> i would expect not
<mjg> not that they would make an informed choice
<mjg> it would just take more effort to use it, so they avoided shoting themselves in the foot out of unwilingess to put more effort
<the_oz> disgusting
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<gog> choose more effort and worse code every time imo
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<geist> i think in most cases most processes are limited to something like 256 or 1024 anyway
<geist> the only reason you'd ulimit that is if you're writing some large ass program, in which case you're probably doing your own abstraction
<geist> otherwise fopen is just fine
<heat> yes
<heat> i just find it silly to do your own abstraction, that's all
<heat> yet another portability layer
<netbsduser> there are already plenty of them
<netbsduser> more people are using java.nio.file than are using foppen, fread, and friends
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<heat> fwiw there's probably a way to repair the C stdio global file list into okayness
<heat> [PATCH] mm/mm_init.c: add zidcache to the init_reserved_page function
<heat> i had to do a doubletake there
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<nikolar> zidcache?
<nikolar> when did we cache zid
<heat> apparently the ebpf rfc is coming out nicely
<bslsk05> ​datatracker.ietf.org: draft-ietf-bpf-isa-04 - BPF Instruction Set Architecture (ISA)
<nikolar> is ebpf about to be standardized
<heat> rfc'd yeah
<nikolar> neato i guess
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<kof673> well c89 FILE *, and posix file descriptors... there is c89 "libc" and then there is posix "libc" truth and Truth fire and Fire water and Water lead and Lead libc and Libc j/k
<kof673> i am assuming FILE * predates ansi C, but point is...libc and Libc
<the_oz> lic_t
<the_oz> ffs
<the_oz> libc_t
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<kof673> you shouldn't say that or i will use that for struct of function pointers lol
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