<heat_>
nah i'm pretty sure it'd be worth it in my case
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<dinkelhacker_>
man... c++ is wild...
<nikolar>
sure is
<nikolar>
what are you looking at
<dinkelhacker_>
the c++ project I recently joined at work
<nikolar>
heh
<nikolar>
good luck
<dinkelhacker_>
While some places are okish to understand as a C guy, there are places where I am totally lost.
<dinkelhacker_>
There are some A-Grade c++ wizzards that used all the tricks in the book. At least that is what it looks to me.
<dinkelhacker_>
I mean the sheer amount of keywords there are...
<nikolar>
don't be tricked, i bet they don't even know what they did
<nikolar>
lol what keywords
<heat_>
"class"
<nikolar>
int class; /* c++ proofing the codebase */
<dinkelhacker_>
it feels like there are many :D
<GeDaMo>
Wait until you encounter templates :P
<dinkelhacker_>
that's what i am looking at right now
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<Ermine>
heat_: great job!
<heat_>
we're dangerously close to year of the onyx desktop
<nikolar>
yeah it will be in $YEAR_OF_LINUX_DESKTOP + 1
<sortie>
heat_: I'm pretty sure it's the year of the sortix desktop but it may be coming to an end you're right
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<heat_>
sortie, the perl build system is WILD
<sortie>
heat_: That's putting it mildly
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<sortie>
heat_: Friggin awful is what it is and they should be absolutely entirely ashamed of themselves
<sortie>
heat_: Doing native or cross build?
<heat_>
native
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<heat_>
it has such funny questions as "Do you really want me to use vfork? [n]"
<heat_>
autoconf but you do feature detection, they just ask questions
<sortie>
heat_: You'll definitely have more luck with that. I noped out of their build system and use this thing called perl-cross that is extracted on top of perl and replaces the build system with something more sensible that supports cross-compilation, but perl-cross still has a bunch of issues that I also work around
<sortie>
I don't even know the normal perl build experience well, since it was so terrible
<heat_>
it's really bizarre
<heat_>
the default target for an OS it doesn't recognize is: sysv
<sskras>
hello. I have an indirect, S.M.A.R.T. related question
<sortie>
*sskras->question
<sskras>
are there known hypervisors/virtual machine managers (or even emulators) that could emulate SMART for their guests?
<sskras>
sortie: cheers! :)
<sortie>
(I don't know, but I imagine? At least to tell the guest everything is ok.)
<heat_>
ok with actual snapshots i guess so, cow itself won't give you everything
<nikolar>
i didn't mention cow
<heat_>
snapshots without cow?
<nikolar>
lol i meant that the snapshots are the whole point
<heat_>
Ermine, yep, mongo isn't super data-safe
<heat_>
mmap and all that shit
<nikolar>
cow is more for on disk consistency, rather than user data safety
<Ermine>
I mean, those databases don't implement ACID semantics
<Ermine>
qemu: Slirp: Failed to send packet, ret: -1
<nikolar>
nice
<Ermine>
old linux has trouble creating ext2 on qemu
<heat_>
sure, but even e.g mmap doesn't suit itself to data safety
<heat_>
it's very funny
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<nikolar>
wasn't there an ext3 extension (i guess), that added some cow for snapshotting
<heat_>
here's a funny question: when are blocks allocated when writing to a MAP_SHARED mapping?
<heat_>
option a) at write fault time option b) at writeback option c) other
<Ermine>
c
<nikolar>
i'd bet on c
<heat_>
the real answr is option d) it depends
<nikolar>
that's falls under c) otehr
<heat_>
it turns out most sane widely used linux filesystems (e.g ext4) do allocation at fault time and spit out a SIGBUS if it failed (ran out of space, etc)
<heat_>
old, bad filesystems (linux ext2) do it at writeback time
<Ermine>
yes, mkfs.ext2 is in D state
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<heat_>
zfs does it whenever it feels like it
<heat_>
i assume btrfs is similar and then completely blows up if you run out of space
<nikolar>
i actually have no clue how that's implemented
<nikolar>
for cow
<Ermine>
btw in which linux version virtio was introduced?
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<heat_>
no idea, you should go by qemu changelog and pick a slightly later kernel version
<Ermine>
debian 3's kernel doesn't have it anyway
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<nikolar>
i think virtio didn't even become a thing until like 2017 or something
<nikolar>
(that might be completely wrong, i forgor)
<heat_>
2017 is too late
<nikolar>
> v1.0/ 03-Mar-2016 17:00
<nikolar>
specs
<nikolar>
i wasn't too far off, heh
<nikolar>
nice
<heat_>
yes you were
<heat_>
there was a _lot_ of time before the v1 spec
<zid`>
whoa virtio is that new?
<Ermine>
rh6 panicked lol
<froggey>
around 2010
<zid`>
FRED also around 2010
<zid`>
still waiting
<nikolar>
kek
<heat_>
version 0.12.0-rc2:
<heat_>
- virtio: verify features on load (Michael S. Tsirkin)
<nikolar>
what's that
<heat_>
qemu-0.12.0-rc2.tar.gz 12-Dec-2009 14:39
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<heat_>
they _already had_ virtio in 2009 and were fixing it
<nortti>
technically speaking, the original sun workstation
<nortti>
(the 68000 cannot recover properly from all errors that might be hit when using an external MMU to do demand paging. they fixed this by having the mmu halt the main CPU and handling the page fault on a second one, aiui)
<nikolar>
wikipedia said that they had a custom mmu
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<netbsduser>
Ermine: that's what it's named for
<netbsduser>
redhat package manager
<nikolar>
repulsive package manager :P
<netbsduser>
on block allocation at fault v.s. writeback time
<netbsduser>
it's a tricky business
<netbsduser>
i think reservation at fault time is one matter and allocation is another
<netbsduser>
reservation as in subtract one from an in-memory count of blocks available, so that you can try to do a contiguous allocation at writeback time if there's neighbouring dirty pages
<Ermine>
netbsduser: what message did you reply?
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<heat>
netbsduser, you at least need reservation
<heat>
like you _really_ dont want to catch errors asynchronously at writeback, much less errors that are very possible, like ENOSPC
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<heat>
>The compiler now accepts the -std=f2023 option, which has been added in preparation of support of Fortran 2023. This option increases the line-length limit for source in free-form to 10000, and statements may have up to 1 million characters.
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<Ermine>
I'd expect such limitations from one of the first programming languages
<Ermine>
also fortran code was written on punchcards back then
<heat>
well these limitations are a little insane no?
<heat>
in C a 10k line would have to be the nastiest macro ever
<heat>
and a 1 million character statement would literally be a 1MB statement. nastiest macro ever ^2
<Ermine>
maybe it's weird way to lift such limitations to make them formal
<Ermine>
because actually removing them would break something?