phoebos changed the topic of #kisslinux to: Unofficial KISS Linux community channel | | post logs or else | song of the day
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<sewn> bye midfavila
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<ehawkvu> Was thinking that we should have a collective spec for KISS, since we have multiple people now working on forks of the package manager
<ehawkvu> Here's my initial draft (in TeX):
<ehawkvu> I think it'd be a nice document to have for the community, and can serve as a nice, consolidated way to store our design decisions
<ehawkvu> let me know what yall think !
<raph_ael> is kiss still enough maintained ?
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<sewn> raph_ael: sure it is
<sewn> testuser[m]: phoebos: look at the cool draft
<raph_ael> sewn: ok thanks
<sewn> ehawkvu`: does the spec cover proposals in kiss?
<sewn> like provides and such
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<phoebos> ehawkvu`: nice work
<phoebos> I wrote something similar in but from the point of view of documentation rather than specification
<phoebos> a KISS.8 might discuss system requirements
<riteo> ehawkvu`: wasn't there already a spec?
<riteo> like, on the website?
<riteo> unless that's too amgiguous
<riteo> also, has some other stuff that you put there
<riteo> the spec for the package format is like extremely dumb AFAIK, especially after the version placeholder and envvar removal, IIRC
<riteo> anyways, there's a typo at the description of KISS_KEEPLOG. It's truncated there.
<riteo> heheh, why the godot build file example? :D
<phoebos> there's also the queue-status hook name problem
<phoebos> hm I thought I did a PR for that
<phoebos> oh only to kisslinux/kiss
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<ehawkvu`> riteo: this spec will also cover some of the internal workings of kiss (like giving a diagram of when/where the hooks are called, etc) which the website doesn't yet do.
<ehawkvu`> phoebos: I totally forgot that you had worked on the man pages! I wonder if there is a way to reuse the work that you did on those here as well
<ehawkvu`> sewn: it doesn't yet cover the proposals, but if this were to have it's own repo in kiss-community, we could make proposals a formal part of the document over there.
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<angle> hey, does anyone have a copy of the kiss chroot they could croc over to me while codeberg is down?
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<sewn> angle: tell me why the universe decided you install kiss at this particular time
<angle> lol, I'm snowed in, and the last time I tried to install it, it went horribly.
<sewn> what does snowed in mean
<angle> like my house is surrounded by snow, so I can't leave to go anywhere.
<angle> I cleared out 50GB of storage on my ssd, and I tried to look for my old chroot from when I first tried to install it, but I guess I deleted it.
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<phoebos> raph_ael: I'd love to make a kiss release but ideally people finish removing VERSION markers and adding explicit DESTDIR :v (testuser, sewn, ioraff, asimovsh)
<sewn> I will never understand why these are removed
<phoebos> also then we can get back on repology
<ehawkvu`> angle: here's a rootfs that I just built w/ mkrootfs ~
<phoebos> sewn: it was a controversial addition
<sewn> phoebos: you mean removal :p
<phoebos> well no, we voted for the removal
<sewn> ah
<ehawkvu`> sewn: it also is something that can be achieved through other means
<sewn> what was Dylan's stance at the time?
<ehawkvu`> Dylan was the one who added
<sewn> ehawkvu`: yeah but I'm not willing to have one line in a few hundred packages if I can have one in kiss, and removing the version markers well idk
<ehawkvu`> sewn: I didn't vote for the removal fwiw
<sewn> I think that it would be a lot easier to bump packages using version markers, but it was removed anyway
<ehawkvu`> sewn: I agree
<sewn> all I know is they were removed because 'i need to download it manually'
<sewn> and destdir because of like one package afaik
<sewn> I don't follow discussions too much tbh
<ehawkvu`> I think the logic behind removing DESTDIR was that it hides behavior
<ehawkvu`> explicit > implicit, even when more verbose
<ehawkvu`> is essentially the reasoning
<ehawkvu`> phoebos: would you mind if I made a repo up on codeberg for the spec file?
<sewn> ehawkvu`: yeah that makes a lot of sense
<sewn> what about the rest of the environment variables?
<sewn> for rust, go. imagine setting compiler! must be explicit
<phoebos> ehawkvu`: I'm not sure I understand what you want to do with it, apart from collating information from across codeberg issues and the source code?
<ehawkvu`> I think the other env variables should remain since they prevent weird build issues
<ehawkvu`> phoebos: I'd like to have a reference for the expected behavior - also if we ever decide to fully switch over to a C version, it can describe what symbols are expected in a hypothetical library
<sewn> hmph
<phoebos> I feel like defining a libkiss interface is rather optimistic
<phoebos> but I don't want to dampen your enthusiasm
<sewn> libkiss? I thought kiss was simple
<sewn> if it's simple all it needs is a smol cute specification and a simple primary implementation
<phoebos> $/kiss-community is certainly a collection for the community but this sounds more like a personal project
<angle> ehawkvu`: Can you explain what the difference is between your rootfs and the one I'm supposed to download here?
<ehawkvu`> I built it with using a fresh chroot
<ehawkvu`> So the packages will be more up to date
<angle> Ah cool. Will I need to fix the bug on the latest release with busybox-suid?
<ehawkvu`> I don't believe so
<angle> awesome. I'll do my best to get started then.
<angle> I have a question regarding booting though cause that's where my install went wrong the last time I tried to install kiss.
<ehawkvu`> I would ask other people here if you need help w/ an initramfs, as I have yet to get tinyramfs to be able to boot my laptop
<ehawkvu`> I just bake in every module
<angle> do I not need a mini 100 mb boot partition that's vfat to boot my system like I usually do with installing arch?
<angle> I couldn't get booting to work last time I installed it. Didn't show up as a bootable device or anything.
<ehawkvu`> You'll need an EFI partition, but not a boot partition unless if you are encrypting your root
<angle> I won't do that this time.
<phoebos> angle: I'm pretty rubbish at this stuff, but might help you.
<angle> But I can just use ext4 for my fs and be fine? as long as I put in the correct grub commands and have efibootmgr installed, it'll automatically make the boot efi stuff?
<angle> thanks phoebos. I'll read before I start this time.
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