13:10 <sewn> very weirdly written

13:11 <sewn> it should just be a simple display command

16:33 <sujo> are there any pdf viewers than don't use GTK/QT?

16:38 <sujo> closest I could find was <https://lkrotowski.com/projects/lpdf/>

16:39 <sujo> but that doesn't build

16:44 <xdream8[m]> Maybe mupdf? I think it depends on Xorg libraries tho

17:11 <sujo> X11 dep is fine

18:20 <sewn> Zathura?

18:21 <sujo> sewn: requires GTK3

18:22 <sujo> unfortunately

18:22 <sewn> ew what I thought it was a nice lil pdf reader

18:22 <sewn> aw man

18:22 <sujo> xdream8[m]: Looks good, thanks

18:32 <sujo> sewn: it's fine on my arch machine (ew), but that's a necessary evil

18:32 <sujo> but when it'd be the only req. for GTK3, that's a hard pass

22:40 <phoebos> sujo: you could also convert pdf to an image format and pipe to an image viewer

22:44 <sujo> phoebos: fair enough

22:44 <sujo> some of the material I use has ToC which I'd need to preserve

22:44 <sujo> but getting mupdf packaged wasn't too bad

23:12 <phoebos> it's also in community

23:17 <rory50> is there a viable way forward for x? I planning on sticking with it and I know Wayland is preferred by many. Ideally it would be 50 50 communities so everyone can use what they like. but if everyone here is moving I have no choice but to move as well. there are too many x packages to maintain without help.

23:18 <rory50> time frame is next 20 years. I have scripts with x hard dependencies especially xdotool

23:20 <phoebos> i and plenty others have no interest in leaving X

23:20 <rory50> I know lfs and gentoo can help with it too

23:20 <rory50> so part of it is up to them to help with fixing stuff that might break x

23:21 <rory50> OK good if you are in then im in. we just need to hold the line

23:22 <rory50> for most ppl its a display tool but for some of us our tools literally break without it. a big deal

23:27 <rory50> when ppl start writing Wayland protocol only programs, is the plan simply to find alternatives?

23:33 <rory50> looks like the Wayland server Weston can run on x client, as long as they decide to support it and not break it. so there's my answer

23:35 <sujo> phoebos: I only saw zathura and libmupdf

23:38 <sujo> rory50: kiss-xorg is pretty good with updates

23:39 <sujo> a non-insignificant portion of people still use kiss+X

23:39 <rory50> kiss repos are beyond awesome im just overwhelmed by the amount of work put into it and constantly live in fear that I may be alone doing it one day

23:40 <sujo> if that does happen (operand being does), it'll be incremental work

23:40 <rory50> the main kiss community repo didnt have xorg so I panicked a bit. didnt realize it was a separate site

23:40 <sujo> and if you're still soldiering through as the last X user, then that wouldn't be too much of a burden

23:41 <sujo> yeah mainline switched to wayland

23:41 <sujo> too new for me

23:41 <rory50> it just doesnt have something as good as xdotool

23:41 <sujo> new -> underdeveloped

23:41 <rory50> cant use it for that 1 fact

23:42 <rory50> I like that Wayland isnt bloated like tons of packages

23:42 <rory50> I have my own kiss fork that have to manually convert kiss packages to mine. ton of work for x

23:45 <sujo> I like wayland, but it also moves the workload further towards the user

23:45 <sujo> X clients are simple

23:45 <sujo> wayland clients, not so much

23:46 <sujo> it's all bloat; everyone should just use FB

23:47 <rory50> yea in the end someone has to do the work. less bloat more work. tinyx might be the sweet spot im working on that. trying to get input to work

23:51 <sewn> <rory50> "the main kiss community repo..." <- this is why we should have some notes in the kiss community README linking other repositories for packages such as xorg or dbus

23:51 <sewn> it would be way cooler if there was a dbus/ or xorg/ under repo

23:52 <sujo> ideally repos and folders should be 1:1

23:52 <sujo> but logistically that would be a cluster

23:53 <sujo> it kinda works with monolithic repos like community/community