<Pixel_Outlaw>
I'm doing the Advent of Code (well a bit of it in CL) I need to "show the boys at work" some terse yet good CL. Shortening the package names a bit makes it look even better.
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<beach>
Absolutely. And package-local nicknames is the way to go. Then you don't have to :USE the library package in your own code.
<Pixel_Outlaw>
Much better than (my-very-educated-mother-just-served-us-nine-pizzas:foo bar)
<beach>
Exactly!
<beach>
And you don't have to rename a package that is not yours, which would not be a polite thing to do.
<Pixel_Outlaw>
Heh I'm using the usuals, :cl-ppcre :str :alexandria :uiop
<Pixel_Outlaw>
I'm not old enought to be rude to those.
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<beach>
Interesting that none of those is a "usual" one for me.
<Pixel_Outlaw>
Hmm, can you take a look beach? I've always depended on quickproject for lisp stuff. This is just a 1 off Lisp file. https://pastebin.com/txQi1x5a
<beach>
OK, so REQUIRE is deprecated and might not work. I suggest you create yourself an ASDF system description with "the usuals" in a :DEPENDS-ON list.
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<Josh_2>
Hi hi
<Josh_2>
beach: is SICL done yet :)
<Josh_2>
restless api's suck, I just want to pass pointers to lisp objects around :(
<Josh_2>
Also what on earth is MKCL :O
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<beach>
Josh_2: The SICL project is going quite well, and I don't know that it will ever be finished. The SICL Common Lisp implementation is not done yet, no. We keep improving the bootstrapping procedure.
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<beach>
Josh_2: Your remark about "restless api's" is unrelated, yes?
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<beach>
The main purpose of the SICL project is to provide modules for creators of Common Lisp systems, and we are doing more and more of those modules, and some of them are also getting closer to providing services for the innermost parts of Common Lisp systems.
<Josh_2>
All lisp programs in a single image with first class environments. Then we can pass lisp objects around
<Josh_2>
rather than using json :joy:
<beach>
Yes, I see.
<Josh_2>
I am looking forward to converting many of my websites from many sbcl instances to a single sicl :D
<Shinmera>
I run my websites with a single sbcl already :shrug:
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<beach>
I was going to ask about that.
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<Josh_2>
I have considered doing it
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<Equill>
Has anybody here run into application or library (not CL implementation) bugs that are specific to a CPU? That is, not just X86-64 but "AMD Ryzen 9 5900X 12-Core Processor"?
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<Equill>
I have a feeling that tracking the output of `(machine-version)` might be a hair not worth splitting.
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<Josh_2>
I have a AMD Ryzen 7 6800H in my laptop and I cant say I've ever had any problems
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<dnhester26>
hi everyone, I just finished the basic work for the alpha version of the technical reference. It has the spec with most of the code highlighted, some highlight is missing in some places, and there are aesthetic issues regarding formatting, however, it works, mostly looks nice in my opinion, and the search is quite convenient. most importantly it's open for anyone to contribute with examples and expanded explanations. The idea is to
<dnhester26>
have the explanations added and noted that they are not part of the original. Hopefully, if people here contribute, this can become very useful for people programming in common lisp to use it as a reference and for beginners and intermediates to have an easier time learning things than strugeling to understand the hyperspec Here's the blog post of today's update: https://lisp-docs.github.io/cl-language-reference/blog
<ixelp>
Blog | Common Lisp (New) Language Reference
<dnhester26>
beach please take a look, now you the search for progn should be working
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<Equill>
Josh_2: I have a real talent for ambiguous phrasing, sorry. I meant in general, just using that one as an example.
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<beach>
dnhester26: Looks good!
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<beach>
dnhester26: I cloned the repository. But I am not sure I understand the structure. Suppose I want to fix the first example on PROGN and replace SETQ by DEFPARAMETER. Where should I make that change?
<bjorkintosh>
I don't think dnhester26 is here at the moment.
<bjorkintosh>
unless hex is hiding some users.
<beach>
Yes, I know. I was writing that for the logs.
<ixelp>
19.2 Pathnames | Common Lisp (New) Language Reference
<bjorkintosh>
I was wondering why the example looked odd.
<bjorkintosh>
but I realized it's just a place holder.
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<splittist>
Apropos of chapter 13, I look forward to the post-Unicode world where it turns out that scripts, repertoires and attributes are the more useful approach to characters...
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<Josh_2>
Maybe include some syntax highlighting JS library and use it for the code blocks
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<dnhester26>
derscored (which means hidden), and they are imported into the progn.md file which is where any additional explanations or examples should be. That way we can keep the files separated instead of interweaving spec and additions. Do you think that's a sensible approach or would you recommend doing something else? I also thought that for the future, if someone wants to edit something, that way he'll know to only edit the non spec stuf
<dnhester26>
f...
<beach>
dnhester26: Oh, I see. So it is not done with pull requests and such. Good to know.
<dnhester26>
bjorkintosh: Hi, thanks for looking at the pages. That was one of the very few code block sections I added by hand, so I just wrapped the text that was there with the ```lisp ``` code block tags and didn't edit the actua text. I just fixed it by removing the html tags..
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<dnhester26>
beach: yeah! it's easier for you to probably do it with git
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<beach>
We'll find out.
<dnhester26>
beach: you are an admin! you don't need to pull request, you juts push
<beach>
That's what I was about to attempts, but then I couldn't find a page to edit.
<dnhester26>
To deploy, in the readme of the project in github you can see instructions if you have ssl set up you just run a command
<dnhester26>
or I can deploy it if you want, pushing and deploying are not the same though
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<beach>
I'll just try to use the method you suggested to edit the page.
<beach>
Er, now I am lost.
<beach>
So I can't modify an existing example it seems. All I can do is add to the existing page?
<beach>
That can bee kind of tedious: "And by the way, the example above that starts with (SETQ ...) is wrong, because they didn't update the examples when they changed the language, so you need to unremember that line and instead do (DEFPARAMETER...)
<dnhester26>
I don't know how hard it will be to make it fit common-lisp. Josh_2 what parts of the highlighting are off? To know what to change/add
<dnhester26>
beach: Hi, sorry, you can change it, just change the _progn.md file if it's wrong instead of the progn.md file
<beach>
It is not "wrong" in that it is a translation of the standard. Is it OK to modify it anyway?
<dnhester26>
beach: Maybe for every change we do to the original spec we can add a note or info admonition to mark/note the change for people to know why it's different than the spec: https://docusaurus.io/docs/markdown-features/admonitions
<ixelp>
Admonitions | Docusaurus
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<beach>
dnhester26: Maybe so.
<dnhester26>
beach: I personally find it much easier to use an editor for making changes, you can just find the file by typing progn instead of having to navigate the website... plus syntax highlighting and feedback if you run the server locally, if you don't run the server locally, unless you attempt to deploy it you will not see the result... and deploying takes a bit of time
<beach>
I am lost again.
<dnhester26>
beach: up to you, you are the expert here, and you know what you want and what is better. We can alternatively add a section of changes instead of an admonition noting whatever changes were made in that page to the spec...
<dnhester26>
beach: how can I help?
<bjorkintosh>
dnhester26, magnificent effort.
<beach>
If I find the file by typing progn, I can't edit the example.
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<dnhester26>
bjorkintosh: thanks! it did take so much more work than I was expecting. I hope it will be useful and people will contribute!
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<dnhester26>
beach: hm, maybe type _progn.md
<beach>
In the search?
<dnhester26>
beach: that's the name of the file _progn.md , there are two files: progn.md is the wrapper file which also would have general modifications, _progn.md is the original spec file
<dnhester26>
Since you want to change the spec, it's the _progn.md file
<beach>
But you wanted to preserve that one.
<beach>
And make sure changes are recorded.
<dnhester26>
I'm using vscode for this beacause of react, I use emacs for lisp, in vscode I type progn and both files show up...
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<beach>
dnhester26: I am very very lost. I know nothing about vscode, react, admonitions, deployent, ssl, etc. But I think I know how a language reference works. To me, it contains not just changes from the standard, but much more material, and some alternative ways of describing the operators.
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<dnhester26>
beach: Ah right, but you said you wanted to make a change to the example because there's a problem, so just change that one, add this: https://plaster.tymoon.eu/view/4027#4027 at the end of the example section
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<beach>
That might work. I still need to figure out where the file is located.
<dnhester26>
beach: yeah, I just meant it's easier to use a text editor where you can search for files by name. Whatever is easier for you. Markdown is basically just text with a few rules. Here are the basics: https://commonmark.org/help/ The main difference between that and what we use is that outside of codeblocks we have to escape the following characters <>{}
<ixelp>
progn | Common Lisp (New) Language Reference
<beach>
The lines following (IF A are not indented.
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<dnhester26>
beach: yeah, I think that was a problem of converting the pdfs to markdown format. Do you know of a script or program I can use to automatically indent lisp code that I can call programmatically? I can find every code block with a simple regex finding everything between ```lisp and ``` is a code block, then just indent it, replace the original text with the indented version, and save the file...
<beach>
The only reasonably good indentation program I know is SLIME with slime-indentation. I don't know how to call that programatically.
<dnhester26>
I can do that for the whole project, I just don't know of any common lisp indentation utilities I can use from common lisp or python. I haven't done any emacs lisp, but I imagine there must be a way to access the built in things in slime
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<beach>
I need to think about how to go about this. I am a bit overwhelmed by all this information at the moment.
<dnhester26>
sorry, I wrote too much. I have to run now, I think I can figure out the indentation base on something I found... you can just change it to defparameter and copy paste the pastebin I sent you (maybe change the text) at the end of the _progn.md file and that's it...
<dnhester26>
based*
<beach>
I'll try that. Thank you.
<edgar-rft>
Commpn Lisp has PPRINT that does a tolerable job for simple examples like on the PROGN page
<beach>
That's true.
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<Demosthenex>
silly question. how do i determine every value in a list is true. i can't apply and because it's a macro not a function
<Demosthenex>
"and" ;]
<aeth>
iirc every
<Demosthenex>
every needs a predicate
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<aeth>
#'identity
<aeth>
but that's probably not the right thing then
<beach>
I think it is.
<Demosthenex>
like, (apply 'and '(t t t t t)) cant use and, so (every 'what? '(t t t t ))
<aeth>
yes, every #'identity works
<Josh_2>
(every #'identity ..)
<Demosthenex>
ah!
<aeth>
the question now becomes if that's the simplest possible solution
<Demosthenex>
tyty
<Josh_2>
(some #'null ..) :thinking:
<aeth>
which I leave to the crowdsourcing
<beach>
(notany #'null ...)
<Demosthenex>
notany null reads better
<beach>
Yes, I think so.
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<Devon>
(= #b100. #o100. 100. #x100.) => T ; seems to me CCL should complain
<Devon>
Do other lisps do likewise?
<beach>
Interesting.
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<beach>
SBCL returns T.
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<splittist>
a trailing . is an integer indicator, isn't it?
<beach>
Decimal, you mean? Yes.
<splittist>
Ah, yes: 2.3.1
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<beach>
But it seems incompatible with the radix prefix.
<splittist>
But see 2.3.2.1.1 "Integers can be written as a sequence of digits, optionally preceded by a sign and optionally followed by a decimal point; see Figure 2-9. When a decimal point is used, the digits are taken to be in radix 10; when no decimal point is used, the digits are taken to be in radix given by the current input base."
<beach>
It seems the consequences are undefined.
<Devon>
Which definitely deserves a warning.
<beach>
splittist: I think the relevant passage is for the respective reader macro.
<Devon>
2.4.8.7 Sharpsign B … The consequences are undefined if the token immediately following the #B does not have the syntax of a binary (i.e., radix 2) rational.
<beach>
Devon: yes, same for #o and #x.
<splittist>
But the definition of rational leads to the definition for integer
<beach>
splittist: I am convinced that the phrase for each reader macro applies.
<beach>
In these cases, the . violates the requirement of each reader macro.
<beach>
... because the . is part of the token.
<splittist>
Yes, but it doesn't help. What is the syntax of an octal rational?
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<Devon>
LOL, you debate, I patch.
<beach>
splittist: Is that not clear? Octal digits with a slash in the middle somewhere.
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<beach>
splittist: Figure 2-9 seems clear to me.
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<splittist>
beach: yes, especially when combined with 2.3.2.1.1. The integer form of a rational (as opposed to the ratio form) is a sequence of digits optionally followed by a decimal point. Thus 101010. is an integer, and in #b101010. the 7 characters following the #b have the syntax of a binary rational.
<beach>
Where do you see that the . can be part of a binary rational?
<yitzi>
I think what beach is getting at is that 2-9 explicitly says that the digits before a decimal-point are decimal-digits, i.e. base 10.
<splittist>
Where do you see it can't? I'm not saying it's terribly clear, but it is at least consistent.
<beach>
splittist: You are reading the section on constructing a number from a token, but the token here is not 101010., but #b101010.
<beach>
Not quite, but you see what I mean.
<beach>
That is, the 101010. is not read as a token. It is read by the reader macro #b.
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<beach>
So the restrictions of the reader macro apply.
<splittist>
beach: sure. But the descriptions of the reader macros offer no description of the syntax of the rational
<yitzi>
Presumably by setting the radix to two...so I would think 2-9 still applies.
<splittist>
So I look elsewhere for clues. 2.3.2 explicitly mentions the reader macros. So I don't think it's outrageous to look at the sub(sub-sub-sub)sections of 2.3.2 for more information.
<yitzi>
There aren't any tests for this in ansi-test, just to note.
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<Devon>
CCL #b10./11 errs but #b10/11. => #b10/1011
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<splittist>
beach: but I concede that Table 2.9 weighs in the other direction
<splittist>
s/Table/Figure/
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<Devon>
yitzi: How do you test for undefined behavior? Regardless, should test this.
<yitzi>
You don't
<Devon>
Test for least surprise.
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<lispmacs[work]>
how do I get just the quotient (the first result) from, e.g., (floor 23 10)?