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<beach>
yottabyte: I am never around between 19:00 and 05:00 (UTC+1) or so, so it is better to ask anyone around.
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<beach>
I just created this repository: https://github.com/robert-strandh/Consecution for the extracted version of the SICL sequence functions written by heisig. If someone feels like maintaining it for a while, please go ahead.
<ixelp>
GitHub - robert-strandh/Consecution: An implementation of the Common Lisp sequence functions.
<beach>
The Test subsystem can be largely removed in favor of the use of the extrinsic version of the ANSI test suite, recently made possible by yitzi.
<beach>
And it needs a README and a LICENSE file.
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<beach>
I guess the LICENSE is the same as that of SICL, so that's easy.
<beach>
When I built the extrinsic system using ASDF:LOAD-SYSTEM I got tons of warnings, so that's something to look into.
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<beach>
In case someone wonders, Consecution is "just" another library containing code for some standard Common Lisp module, but that is meant to work both extrinsically (meaning that it can be loaded into an existing Common Lisp implementation without altering the existing standard functions) and intrinsically (meaning it can serve as the standard module for a new or existing Common Lisp implementation).
<beach>
Consecution used to be named SICL-SEQUENCE and was written by heisig for intrinsic use by SICL, and as I recall, performance is comparable to existing SBCL sequence functions.
<beach>
So now, we just want to separate it from the SICL repository and make it totally autonomous.
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<beach>
Well, "autonomous" with respect to SICL. It depends on Alexandria, Acclimation, Closer MOP.
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<Shinmera>
could probably replace some parts of trivial-extensible-sequneces' fallback sequence implementation
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<yitzi>
beach: I can do a little work on Consecution. Set up the ansi-tests, try it on various implementions, etc.
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<alejandrozf>
Hi guys, I have a doubt what do you think is the most near to complete portable implementation of CLOS/MOP? I've seen Closette, PCL & Clostrophilia but don't know if there are others projects out there
<yitzi>
Its already part of every CL implementation and there are systems like closer-mop to even out the differences. In short, its portable. Use it.
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<alejandrozf>
Yeah, I knew about closer-mop, but I'm searching for something not dependant on implementation. A 100% portable
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<yitzi>
What is the use case?
<alejandrozf>
I'm seeing there a some portable portable projects like Eclector that the depends on closer-mop. I would like to make it 100% portable (IMO of portability, of course) by replacing closer-mop.
<alejandrozf>
ups i wrote 'portable' twice
<alejandrozf>
lot of typos, sorryu
<beach>
Shinmera: Good idea.
<beach>
yitzi: That would be great!
<beach>
alejandrozf: Clostrophilia is not yet complete, and it is meant to be independent of the Common Lisp implementation, but that is also not yet the case.
<alejandrozf>
I see, thanks beach
<beach>
alejandrozf: What is it that you are trying to do?
<Shinmera>
what implementation is there that's not covered by closer-mop
<Shinmera>
and how would having an entirely separate clos implementation that's not the implementation's help
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<beach>
That's kind of the reason for my last question.
<alejandrozf>
beach: I just want to make the CL components like Eclector 100% portable, replacing closer-mop with something not dependant on internals of the different implementations
<Shinmera>
then you're making them less than portable, requiring all libraries to rely on your separate CLOS instead of the implementation's.
<alejandrozf>
well, the problem for me is not CLOS, which is covered by CL standard, is MOP
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<Shinmera>
so what, my point stands
<beach>
alejandrozf: Welcome to the SICL project then. Feel free to take on the maintenance of any of the many modules we have created.
<alejandrozf>
thanks beach :)
<beach>
alejandrozf: We hang out in #sicl. And, lately we have started extracting many parts of the standard "modules" to separate repositories.
<bike>
MOP is effectively part of the standard. every implementation anyone uses supports it. and the MOP usage in eclector doesn't even do anything very exotic.
<alejandrozf>
I just didn't wanted to disturb the guidelines of the projects there, I want to contribute but as I saw some projects are using closer-mop I thougth that maybe my idea of replace closer-mop maybe could be problematic
<beach>
alejandrozf: Shinmera is right, though. Even our independent modules like the fresh Consecution (for sequence functions) relies on Closer MOP, so that it can be loaded into pretty much any existing Common Lisp implementation.
<bike>
also, the one thing eclector uses mop for is fixing up ## references when reading standard objects. so if it didn't use an implementation MOP all you would accomplish is making eclector unable to fix up native standard objects.
<alejandrozf>
bike: are you sure? I thougth MOP was outside of CL standard
<bike>
it's not part of the ANSI standard or whatever, but everyone supports it.
<Shinmera>
CLOS is implemented on top of the MOP. it would be a waste not to implement it.
<bike>
thus "effectively"
<alejandrozf>
yeah, I suppose it is a personal taste but I don't like to depend on things outside ANSI standard for having CL implemented in CL
<scymtym>
for eclector, it would probably make more sense to just drop the ability to fix up STANDARD-OBJECT instances since that's a rare occurrence (i assume). but i don't see the point since in actual projects, something else will pull in closer-mop
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<alejandrozf>
but I admire projects in SICL
<bike>
i mean this is something that's actually impossible to accomplish without mop.
<bike>
similarly, cleavir uses mop for stealth-mixins, and maclina uses it for funcallable instances.
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<beach>
alejandrozf: Even SICL (the implementation) depends on the MOP for its bootstrapping.
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<bike>
and Clostrophilia implements MOP
<alejandrozf>
beach: maybe i can contribute to Clostrophilia then, I you like, I think that's the only to choice to replace closer-mop in the future for me
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<bike>
clostrophilia isn't a replacement for closer-mop. it's its own clos system separate from the implementation you're running it on. so you wouldn't be able to use it to do MOP stuff with native objects, or anything.
<alejandrozf>
bike: well, I hope there should be a way to implement CL in CL without using MOP in that way then.
<alejandrozf>
or without using MOP at all
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<bike>
there might be but you'd have to do more work for no reason.
<alejandrozf>
I have my reasons :)
<bike>
maclina just uses closer-mop for funcallable instances. you could maybe hack something up with closures instead, but you'd lose introspection capabilities like disassembly.
<alejandrozf>
got it
<alejandrozf>
thanks
<beach>
alejandrozf: You can have a look at Clostrophilia, but it doesn't even build independently of SICL right now.
<alejandrozf>
beach: will do, thanks :)
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<jcowan>
beach: I'm surprised you chose "Consecution" as a name, since it does not have "cl" in it.
<beach>
I have more libraries without "cl" in their names.
<beach>
Constrictor, for example.
<beach>
Common Boot, Common Macros.
<jcowan>
mmm
<beach>
Incrementalist.
<beach>
Predicament.
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<younder>
Is isqrt expanded in SBCL? It seems that it knows that fixnum won't overflow on return..
<younder>
Kinda lame, but i wanted see how the optimizer would fare, and the compare it to LispWorks. Seems it is about 3 times faster in SBCL.
<bike>
younder: i don't think sbcl inlines isqrt, but it does have a detailed type deriver. so it'll know that the isqrt of a fixnum is a smaller fixnum.
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<jasom>
Just checking that I'm not missing something in the standard; there isn't a function that is equivalent to "(lambda (x y) (signum (- x y)))" i.e. -1, 0, 1 for (< x y), (= x y), (> x y)
<jasom>
adeht: I didn't think of that. It found nothing. Note that to the extent that functions in CL can mutate the image state, one might want to avoid doing that on a given image
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<jasom>
_death: the reverse (eql r 1) found 4 possibilites, none of which seem right (LOGAND GCD ROUND CEILING)
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<_death>
yeah, I admit to playing a bit with the inputs
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