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<flip214>
paulapatience: there's the question whether "deep copy" means only two level copied (the given object and its data), or the whole data tree through all layers...
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<beach>
Why is two special?
<beach>
If a person has an address, and the address has a street and the street has a name, why is it special to copy the address but not the street, or the address and the street but not the name?
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<jackdaniel>
paulapatience: I think that they are just arbitrary (unless the word "deep" or "shallow" is mentioned in the name)
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<flip214>
Can I tell Eclector to use a readtable built via named-readtable:defreadtable?
<beach>
I think scymtym will have to answer that question.
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<flip214>
well, how do I *get* a eclector readtable? COPY-READTABLE requires an eclector readtable as source, there's no :common-lisp default or so?!
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<flip214>
ah, there's a *standard-readtable* in reader/init.lisp
<flip214>
which is not exported. sigh.
<flip214>
it doesn't feel as if eclector had many outside use cases.
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<flip214>
and just binding eclector.readtable:*readtable* doesn't work
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<flip214>
oh, it does work. My bad.
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<jackdaniel>
shrodinger's readtable
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<paulapatience>
Thanks for all the replies
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<scymtym>
flip214: i haven't really gotten to the readtable module of Eclector, yet (crazy, i know). is there anything that is blocking your progress at the moment?
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<flip214>
scymtym: no, I'm not blocked. I just used eclector::*standard-readtable* for now.
<flip214>
I'm still pondering whether I should just ESRAP that part, though.
<scymtym>
flip214: ok. that's not a direction i expected, but i guess we will understand once ELS 2024 comes around
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<Guest43>
(let ((fn-list '(fn-name lambda (x y) (list x y (+ x y)))))
<Guest43>
(funcall (eval (cdr fn-list)) 2 3))
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<Guest43>
Is there a better way to call a lambda from a cdr of a list without using eval? And not setting the variable to be an explicit lambda?
<jackdaniel>
you either create the lambda at compilation time (like I did), or you need to evaluate the list that (after evaluation) creates a function
<Guest43>
Ok. I am reading an old book and it could just be a typo or an old lisp dialect. Thanks again.
<jackdaniel>
perhaps you could learn from a better material
<jackdaniel>
minion: tell Guest43 about pcl
<minion>
Guest43: look at pcl: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005).
<jackdaniel>
I've corrected myself, you should use "second" instead of "cdr"
<Guest43>
I thought that was an either or. It works with second.
<jackdaniel>
also, as the rule of a thumb people are discouraged to paste snippets / outputs that are longer than one line directly on the channel (and are encouraged to use a paste service, like pastebin)
<Guest43>
Will do.
<jackdaniel>
thanks :)
<bike>
in very old lisps you could sometimes use a lambda expression (like a list LAMBDA etc) as a function. but that's been out of style for like, fifty years
<jackdaniel>
,eval (format "cdr: ~s~% second: ~s" (cdr '(one two three)) (second '(one two three)))
<jackdaniel>
,(format "cdr: ~s~% second: ~s" (cdr '(one two three)) (second '(one two three)))
<ixelp>
(format "cdr: ~s~% second: ~s" (cdr '(one two three)) (second '(one two three))) ERROR: "cdr: ~s~% second: ~s" must be a string with a fill pointer.
<jackdaniel>
,(format t "cdr: ~s~% second: ~s" (cdr '(one two three)) (second '(one two three)))
<ixelp>
(format t "cdr: ~s~% second: ~s" (cdr '(one two three)) (second '(one two three))) cdr: (TWO THREE) ↩ second: TWO => NIL
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<jackdaniel>
(sorry for the noise)
<Guest43>
I realized I could have used cadr after you pointed out second.
<jackdaniel>
it is the same thing except for the readibility
<jackdaniel>
but if you are fine with cddaddar accessors then who am I to judge you ;)
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<Guest43>
I was only trying to use things the book mentioned. Not sure why I like messing with old lisp stuff.
<Guest43>
I had tried using the backquote, but did not know I could comma out an entire lambda expression.
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<Guest43>
I just tried the original form in pre ansi CL and it works. So at least it was not a typo.
<Shinmera>
bike: did you see my ping yesterday?
<jcowan>
bike: Using '(lambda ...) as a function was still very much visible in CLtL1, so only 30 years, not 50.
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<bike>
Shinmera: i did not. 3d-matrices not working? oh no.
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<Shinmera>
it is working
<Shinmera>
it just takes almost forever to compile
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<bike>
recurring problem with our compiler. oh well, i'll put it on the pile of issues
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<mi6x3m>
hey, is there a way to have an object of a class be used as a function?
<mi6x3m>
i'm working on a pattern for a use case
<mi6x3m>
and wanna have something like an annotated function
<mi6x3m>
it's about cached commands that cache values for n seconds but can be externally invalidated
<mi6x3m>
so I was thinking about def-cached-poller :cache-value-in <var-symbol> :for <seconds> value
<mi6x3m>
plus of course the name of the poller
<mi6x3m>
but maybe there would be a way to use the poller as both a function and value
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<bike>
mi6x3m: yes, with mop you can have funcallable instances. generic functions are the standard example - you can call them but they also have various slots
<mi6x3m>
how would that work bike, do I define a special magic method?
<bike>
you make your class a subclass of funcallable-standard-object (instead of standard-object), and an instance of a subclass of funcallable-standard-class. then you use set-funcallable-instance-function.
<bike>
so yes, the page there should get you there
<mi6x3m>
but then I can call them with (foo ... not necessarily (funcall foo ... ?
<bike>
That's just a matter of setting them up in the function namespace. like by doing (setf (fdefinition 'foo) my-instance)
<mi6x3m>
I see
<mi6x3m>
than nothing stands in the way of this pattern if it's possible
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<pjb>
Guest43: there are 3 ways to transform a lambda expression into a function: eval, coerce and compile. (eval ll) (coerce ll 'function) (compile nil ll) ; compile may be slow, but may produce fast code, so you may want to favor it if you will call the result in a loop. eval should be fast, but produce slow code (an interpreted function); you may favor it for one shot. coerce may be intermediate, letting the implementation do whaver it
<pjb>
deems better for itself.
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<Guest43>
pjb: Thanks I was wondering if I could coerce it, but that lead me to symbol-function, and I never went back to coerce.
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<pjb>
Guest43: yes, symbols as function designators are nice. But sometimes it is also nice to be able to use a lambda form or a lambda expression. So: `(foo ,(lambda …)) or '(foo #.(lambda …)) or as you wrote, '(foo (lambda …)) with eval, compile or coerce.
<pjb>
Guest43: it depends where the lambda expression or function designator comes from. If it's from the user, you will have to deal with lambda expression and compile/coerce/eval them. If it's your own source, you can use '(#.(lambda …)) or `(…,(lambda …)) if you don't want or need to name it.
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