jackdaniel changed the topic of #commonlisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language | Wiki: <https://www.cliki.net> | IRC Logs: <https://irclog.tymoon.eu/libera/%23commonlisp> | Cookbook: <https://lispcookbook.github.io/cl-cookbook> | Pastebin: <https://plaster.tymoon.eu/>
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<Nilby> type-of shouldn't return an integer right?
<beach> Right, an integer is not a type specifier.
<Nilby> also this shouldn't be true? https://plaster.tymoon.eu/view/3826#3826
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<beach> Sounds right.
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<Nilby> beach: thanks
<beach> Sure.
<beach> Where did this come up?
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<Nilby> it must be an implementation bug, but one that's probably my problem since i'm probably using internal debugging functions wrong
<beach> I see.
<Nilby> It's in a debugger running on sbcl. Happens when I'm examining the stack.
<Nilby> It's very difficult when there's simultaneously a bug in my program, the debugger, and errors in implementation print-object methods.
<beach> I agree. Buggy tools make things very difficult.
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<Nilby> I wonder what it means when #<FUNCTION <<error printing object>> shows up sbcl's slime backtrace
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<hayley> It means the object couldn't be printed for some reason, so you get that text to have any backtrace at all.
<beach> It looks like someone defined a method on PRINT-OBJECT that calls PRINT-UNREADABLE-OBJECT, but that method is buggy.
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<Nilby> Should I be concerned? Why wouldn't I be able to print something?
<beach> If an error is signaled during printing, then the printing fails.
<ogamita> Nilby: you should be concerned because it's an impediment of your debugging capabilities. You should identify the buggy print-object method and debug it.
<Nilby> it's in sbcl, it's printing a function object
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<Nilby> I guess nobody cares because slime papers over it
<ogamita> Now it's a little strange because what's expected there is a function name (a symbol), or perhaps a lambda-expression, and those are usually quite printable. Perhaps you have some unprintable literal object in this function?
<ogamita> Definitely worth debugging it.
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<Nilby> I looked at it. It gets a type-error in the function printing code, like #<TYPE-ERROR expected-type: FUNCTION.
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<Nilby> It's in an anonymous lambda on the stack
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<Nilby> worse, it gets a recursive error when printing the type error
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<Nilby> at least I'm not crazy because it happens in slime as well as my debugger
<beach> What kind of debugger have you created?
<Nilby> A very ungood one that just runs in a terminal
<beach> You might have a look at the one phoe wrote for the portable condition system.
<Nilby> I just wanted to have my fancy repl in the debugger
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<beach> It is also terminal based, in case that is what you are looking for.
<beach> I see.
<beach> You can do that with the SLIME debugger as well. Just hit RETURN in the REPL window and you get a SLIME REPL.
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<Nilby> I know, but I don't use slime anymore except to debug my debugger
<beach> Ah, yes, I see.
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<ixelp> GitHub - phoe/portable-condition-system: A portable Common Lisp condition system
<ixelp> portable-condition-system/debugger.lisp at master · phoe/portable-condition-system · GitHub
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<Nilby> As far as I can see it doesn't do stack printing or have any terminal stuff like command line editing etc. But I know I'm weird by running Lisp not under Emacs.
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<beach> As long as you run it under something better, not weird at all. :)
<beach> Nilby: Are you particularly attached to terminal-only? If not, you could contribute to the CLIM-based tools that we are working on, some of which exist, some of which only partially.
<splittist> Or target the almost-existing terminal backend for CLIM
<Nilby> I'm not attached terminal only, but I do like to be able to to remote work over ssh.
<Nilby> But I write horrible code, poorly designed and full of bugs and I wouldn't want to subject anyone to it.
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<Nilby> also so slow it can only run at reasonable speed on sbcl
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<Nilby> If there was a terminal backend for CLIM I might even target that
<jackdaniel> I can share the timeline if you are interested
<jackdaniel> 1. finish xrender switch (98% done), 2. finish new text editor switch (70% done), 3. finish sdl2 backend (40% done), 4. finish accepting values rewrite (60% done), 5. release mcclim, 6. resume terminal backend (40% done)
<Nilby> wow, that's an impressive amount of work already done
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<jackdaniel> thanks. as you can see I don't have a laser focus ^_^
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<jackdaniel> I've also started a htmx backend, but it did not survive my disk failure
<pve> sure you do, my list looks like this: 1. task one (2% done) 2. task two (4% done) ... 99. task ninety-nine (3% done) :)
<minion> pve, memo from hayley: For your amusement, Clouseau inspecting objects in a Smalltalk-ish language: <https://social.applied-langua.ge/media/cc8fba53-74a0-4a5a-9a1c-a4f0967de6b4/parser-test-in-clouseau.png>
<pve> oh what's this
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<jackdaniel> clouseau is an object inspector written by scymtym - it is bundled with mcclim
<scymtym> looks like hayley taught clouseau how to nicely display smalltalk-ish objects
<pve> is "utena" the smalltalk part?
<hayley> Right.
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<pve> cool, I'm almost done with my "grammar" (I use the term loosely) for my smalltalk thing :)
<pve> or parser, rather
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<hayley> We used S-expression syntax (with a custom reader and concrete-syntax-trees), so that much wasn't an issue.
<pve> I tried searching for utena, but couldn't find anything.. I guess it's not public?
<hayley> https://gitlab.com/cal-coop/utena is public to my knowledge.
<ixelp> Utena · GitLab
<pve> ok thanks, I suck at searching
<hayley> (The "Hååden Two" implementation and "new-spec" branch of the specification repo are up to date.)
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<pve> I also use s-expressions, where the input looks like "Myclass new :at "foo" :put 100" etc
<pve> (it's not as serious as utena, that looks much more sophisticated)
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<hayley> That'd be (put-at!: (new: my-class) "foo" 100)
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<hayley> (...with the Sourcerer language, Utena is the abstract machine, names are hard.)
<pve> right
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<pve> here's my parser:
<ixelp> GitHub - pve1/symbolic-smalltalk-parser
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<pve> I'm trying to figure out if I can be certain that the predicates for the terminals are "disjoint"
<pve> in the grammar, I mean
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<Mrtn[m]> CLHS apply
<ixelp> CLHS: Function APPLY
<Mrtn[m]> WB pve
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<pve> Mrtn[m]: WB?
<Mrtn[m]> pve: You left the room/channel with the message: "Quit: Ping timeout: 268 seconds", but now you're back.
<pve> oh, thanks
<Mrtn[m]> pve: Did you manage to figure if you can be certain in the grammar?
<Mrtn[m]> Figure out*
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<pve> nope, haven't put much thought into it yet, except that it "looks alright"
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<pve> alright, I think the parser is good enough now :) I think I could jump straight into translating the parse tree into (send ...) forms and such.
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<pve> it's unfortunate that the consing dot clashes with smalltalk's statement separator, and the semi-colon with the cascade operator (operand?)
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<beach> Use Eclector and program it.
<pve> beach: sure, that could be a next step
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