<SiFuh>
He works for Kegland in Australia. Having an e-mail conversation about a device not properly functioning and he just talks in circles and has no clue.
<remiliascarlet>
farkuhar: That's because glibc is buggy.
<remiliascarlet>
I advice to statically link on musl. Those errors won't be there, and it'll still run fine on distro's with glibc.
<remiliascarlet>
I have the same problem when static linking code that depends on GnuPG on glibc, but on musl and on the BSD's I don't get any errors.
<SiFuh>
remiliascarlet: I thought you were hinting that farkuhar nad zorz was a couple
<remiliascarlet>
SiFuh: If that were the case, I would separate them by a plus character (+), and surround their names with heart characters (♡ and♥ ).
<farkuhar>
Speaking of stenur, his contrib/pam_xdg port appeared in the Passwords and User Environment section of the 3.7 Handbook. When beerman and jaeger made the first draft of the 3.8 Handbook, they tried to remove all references to pam_xdg, but left half of one sentence. Without the other half that referred to pam_xdg, the remaining half-sentence made no sense.
<farkuhar>
Maybe they got lazy and relied on AI to delete the pam_xdg material. That's the problem with following zorz's advice.
<SiFuh>
Hope you found that whilst re-writing the entire manual
<SiFuh>
I put a plastic bottle in the front garden. It is a mini greenhouse. So make sure no one removes it thinking that it is garbage.
<SiFuh>
Hmm....
<farkuhar>
Hmm... Apparently by putting "diff.algorithm = histogram" into ~/.gitconfig you can get human-reader-friendlier patches when running `git diff`
<farkuhar>
The patch I uploaded to tools/pkgutils/issues/4 is not terribly unfriendly to human readers, even though it was generated by the old diff algorithm. That's because it only changes a function signature and adds about 13 lines of new code.
<SiFuh>
ukky: Error reloactiong libIntelXvMC.so: XvCreateImage: symbol not found.
<SiFuh>
ukky: Error reloactiong libIntelXvMC.so: XvPutImage: symbol not found.
<SiFuh>
libIntelXvMC.so
<SiFuh>
And if the is a problem. There are litterally hundreds of them for different libraries.
<farkuhar>
SiFuh: Was that an actual copy-and-paste job? Why is "relocating" misspelled everywhere?
<SiFuh>
I typed it manually farkuhar
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: Lazy to edit known host file and ssh in
<SiFuh>
By the way, for some weird reason. Root password no longer works.
<SiFuh>
Luckily I was already logged in as root so I could passwd it
<farkuhar>
Is it something to do with the crypt algorithm that shadow uses?
<SiFuh>
/lib/ld-musl-x86_64.so.1: /usr/src/linux-6.6.62/arch/x86/entry/vdso/vdso32.so: Not a valid dynamic program
<SiFuh>
Hmm
<SiFuh>
Maybe nothing serious
<farkuhar>
kernel version, heh. In the PmWiki sources for the 3.8 Handbook, jaeger defines page variables ${:VERSION:} and ${:KERNEL:} which he then uses in subsequent sections, so that subsequent updates only need to change these variables in one place. But inside a "verbatim" code block, variable expansion was not being performed, and you could see literal ${:KERNEL} when PmWiki rendered the page.
<farkuhar>
There's probably a way to override PmWiki here, and get it to perform variable expansion inside a "verbatim" code block. I didn't dig deep enough to figure it out, though; it was easier to type the kernel version in those places manually.
<farkuhar>
SiFuh: My kitchen has a giant plastic squeeze-bottle containing at least 5 kg of honey, which at current temperatures does not flow easily. Whenever I turn it upside-down and apply a tight grip to force a few mL through the narrow opening, I'm reminded of your comment about kung fu and its reliance on strong forearms.
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: Good, because strong forearms are the key to immense power
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: We have guys here that go to the gym regulary and they build their biceps and pectorial muscles to become strong. Yet there are bolts and nuts for example they just can't do because they lack their forearm strength.
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: Canelo Alvarez, if you watch his training, he is training for power. And you will notice most of strength is more forearms. He does use his back and biceps but what gives him the extra power is his forearms
<farkuhar>
The cap on that bottle of honey is not the original one; it provides a narrower opening, to moderate the flow and prevent pouring too much. But the downside is that the honey tends to crystallize just behind the hole, creating an even longer passage that demands greater forearm strength than what was needed with the original cap.
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: I find it funny that people focus on their calf muscles for strength but ignore their forearms.
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: Store it upside down then.
<SiFuh>
We have a shot cup that it sits in upside-down.
<SiFuh>
shot glass
<SiFuh>
In fact, I am notorious for storing most things upside-down because it stops mould from growing in the bottles and for plastic bottled beer, upside down because CO2 sits on the top (Technically the bottom) and doesn't leak out of the bottle and cause the beer to go flat
<SiFuh>
Tomato paste, oyster sauce, ketchup. All upside down.
<SiFuh>
That's why salt and pepper shakers work so well, they are already upside-down
<farkuhar>
The new cap also prevents air exchange, so when honey is forced out, the plastic bottle deforms to occupy a smaller volume. The deformed plastic bottle is even harder to squeeze, compared to a bottle with a varying volume of air behind the honey.
<SiFuh>
Modify the bottle with an air release plug :-P
<farkuhar>
Why modify? I'm getting a better forearm workout with the continually-collapsing bottle.
<SiFuh>
I have 350 lbs in Australia and you could get carpal tunnel syndrome from them :-P
serpente has joined #crux-social
<zorz>
SiFuh: better he buys a handbook :pP
<SiFuh>
zorz: Was talking to some guys who will come around tomorrow to help me lift the roof rack and tent off of my truck so I can start painting it.
<SiFuh>
Wife asks "Are they all Chinese? Should I buy them some food or snacks?" They replied. "No no, no need food hahah" I said "Haha, she doesn't know men :-P" and then he replies "Helping does not require rewards" I then told him a short story "The other day my friend angry with me, wants to kill me. Next day we are talking about something. Wife says "I thought he was angry at you. He wanted to kill you!"
<SiFuh>
I said "We are men, not women"" He laughed and then I said "Some things men do women don't understand. Everything women do men don't understand at all. HAHAHA"
<zorz>
come on SiFuh homemade beer reaward!
<zorz>
with vodka shots
<SiFuh>
Vodka sure
<SiFuh>
But beer, no. Most people don't like my beer because it is made from rice.
<SiFuh>
They like it when they are half way through a glass. But their face when they start is horrible to look at
<SiFuh>
I changed to rice because my Maltose seller doubled the price. So making home brew would now be more expensive than buy shop bought commercial shit. Secondly, my wheat seller, rarely gives me a fresh bag so it goes mouldy before I can malt it. So I went to rice because I can get rice cheap and fresh
<SiFuh>
Rice has a green apple flavour to it and it has very little head. In fact if you get a head on it, it lasts a few seconds.
<zorz>
aaaaaaaaaa so your beer tastes like cider
<SiFuh>
No
<SiFuh>
Fuck no
<SiFuh>
I hate cider
<zorz>
i like strong belgium beers in the winter
<zorz>
me2
<SiFuh>
And cider is for poofters anyway. Fucking homosexual drink
<zorz>
heh
<SiFuh>
I like beer
<SiFuh>
I said it has a green apple flavour. I didn't say it had a cider/vinegar flavour
<zorz>
SiFuh: ΕΥΡΗΚΑ for torrents, so i dont open this annoying webpages. look workflow https://0x0.st/8AtY.txt
<ukky>
SiFuh: "How come you didn't add MUSL to the name of CRUX?" <= I only changed it in /etc/os-release and gcc.
<SiFuh>
ukky: I change it in the Makefile, SYSLINUX, GRUB2, core/filesystems and the crux executable script. Just because it is cool. But if you didn't I am not bothered, just curious
<farkuhar>
Hmm, another failure to follow the Single Point Of Truth principle. Why does /usr/bin/crux have the version and name hard-coded, rather than sourcing /etc/os-release for that information?
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: It's a script
<farkuhar>
SiFuh: That's no excuse. A script can easily read /etc/os-release
<SiFuh>
$ cat /usr/bin/crux
<SiFuh>
#!/bin/sh
<SiFuh>
echo "CRUX-musl version 3.8"
<SiFuh>
# End of file
<SiFuh>
$
<SiFuh>
os-release ukky changed as well
<SiFuh>
I also. Just wondered why he didn't cover every base. But still cool. His distro is running here
<farkuhar>
SiFuh: yes, that's one of the few places that ukky did change. But if everything else regarded /etc/os-release as the SPOT, then they wouldn't need to be edited every time a new CRUX comes out.
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: Nah better to have it in the Makefile. So that it finds it modifies everything in one hit
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: ukky: Now, we need a MUSL repo. Patched versions
<ukky>
For me, it was not really important change. We can perfrom additional task of doing just that (crux -> crux-musl)
<SiFuh>
ukky: Understood
<ukky>
SiFuh: I need help doing that
<farkuhar>
I still haven't figured out how to make PmWiki expand the variables for ${:KERNEL:} and ${:VERSION:} inside a pre-formatted code block (the equivalent of HTML <pre>). So at least in those code blocks, we have to edit the kernel version and CRUX version by hand.
<SiFuh>
ukky: gitlab it. We just need someone to host it.
<SiFuh>
ukky: farkuhar: MUSL is the easy part. The removal of linux-pam is a dick.
<SiFuh>
And I saw sudo was in your core. I know what you said but it really should be moved to opt and I understand that it will end up in core if you do a ports -u so it may be best to leave it there unless we clone the entire crux repos and remove the junk we don't want.
<SiFuh>
ukky: Also my repo server died a few months back. I still haven't bothered to look into it. Probably power supply
<ukky>
SiFuh: I don't have github/gitlab account, but I can host it for some time on my VPS until somebody picks it up.
<SiFuh>
I don't recommend github
<ukky>
Yeah, github is just another name for Microsoft.
<SiFuh>
I found if you push a lot of stuff, it won't let you see the updates for sometimes up to 5 hours.
<farkuhar>
Why doesn't one of you simply register an account on git.crux.nu, and host your forks of the {core,opt,xorg} repos there?
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: Because you'd need to write a second manual :-P
<farkuhar>
No I wouldn't
<ukky>
I have gitolite on my VPS server, maybe that will do
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: Yes you will HAHA
<SiFuh>
It would be less than an A4 page explaining how to make sure it stays MUSL without breaking.
<ukky>
SiFuh: For libIntelXvMC.so issue, I see it on my setup, but have to dig to find resolution.
<SiFuh>
I have a fresh install of your ISO but only added htop to watch
<SiFuh>
I was happy though that you had included my kernel config.
<ukky>
You have to thank jaeger for that
<SiFuh>
Yeah but you could have easily patched it out.
<SiFuh>
You actually made my life easier since NTFS doesn't seem to mount on the CRUX ISO
<ukky>
It would have been extra work with little benefit or no benefit at all
<SiFuh>
I did have a spare copy though on my ESP partition. Just in case
<farkuhar>
Hahaha I probably won't hit the libIntelXvMC.so issue, `prt-get listinst | grep xorg-xf86-video` returns only xorg-xf86-video-amdgpu for me.
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: I installed EVERYTHING except that grub shit.
<ukky>
SiFuh: I did the same
<SiFuh>
ukky: I find it funny that we have both got cdrkit in opt but it is only used for the ISO build.
<farkuhar>
Every package, just in case you need a driver for a card that isn't installed. I appreciate your thoroughness in testing ukky's ISO.
<SiFuh>
ukky: Anyways apart from the ldd errors that I can't figure out how to log. It works fine.
<ukky>
One more thing: I split libc and linux-headers
<SiFuh>
I do too ukky
<SiFuh>
ukky: I did have a thought but never looked into it. Why can't the kernel build install the headers in the ISO rather than a port?
<ukky>
One thing that still bothers me: I didn't find preper dependencies for extra musl packages, like musl-fts etc.
<ukky>
s/preper/proper
<SiFuh>
I think it is only MUSL
<SiFuh>
I will need to look at my build because I built it with all deps needed
<ukky>
Yes, it is only musl, but not all core+opt packages require those extra musl-libs
<SiFuh>
But it was required by some core apps
<SiFuh>
I may look into it on Friday. Tomorrow is a busy day.
<SiFuh>
Today is Wednesday by the way.
<SiFuh>
I plan to sand the entire roof rack that I paid 2K MYR for so it doesn't rust anymore.
<ukky>
I'd done building musl-ISO, too much energy was sucked from me
<SiFuh>
ukky: I don't blame you.
<SiFuh>
It did it to me. 3 days non-stop. Never left my room. Wife was bringing me supper and I just took toilet and nap brakes
<SiFuh>
breaks
<ukky>
SiFuh: You can blame me if you find something not working/functional. But I did my best to expose all issues.
<SiFuh>
Nah, ukky You got what a ppears to be a fully functional ISO.
<ukky>
But something is not right with kernel config when booting from XHCI USB, my system panics.
<SiFuh>
ukky: I booted from USB 3C
<SiFuh>
Oh wait no. I booted from USB 3
<ukky>
Maybe it depends how XHCI is routed on motherboard.
<SiFuh>
When you first mentioned your issue I was thinking maybe a hardware issue
<ukky>
I have to boot from one of USB ports reserved for USB kbd/mouse
<SiFuh>
ukky: My actual thought was you are using a powered port for charging.
<ukky>
No, failing USB3 is the one on backplate of motherboard
<ukky>
SiFuh: Did you use Ventoy, or dd?
<SiFuh>
ukky: I am old school. dd
<ukky>
SiFuh: Also, I thought of adding nvme-cli as you asked jaeger, but it was so big and I changed my mind.
<ukky>
Yeah, I did dd too
<SiFuh>
ukky: nvme-cli is essential if you want to do crypto drives and managed NVME
<SiFuh>
I didn't crypto. Just zstd modules and install over an old partition.
<SiFuh>
And it will become part of core for many distros since it is the new way to deal with drives.
<ukky>
ISO is already 1.5G, adding nvme-cli will add up more. If you are okay with that, I can add nvme-cli to the ISO.
<farkuhar>
SiFuh: I'm not familiar enough with Gitlab to know what benefit a "Gitlab option" would confer during registration on a Gitea host. Besides, the easiest step after creating a Gitea account is to fork the existing repos (core, opt, xorg) and then push your MUSL patches. Why bother importing anything from Gitlab?
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: You want to host it?
<SiFuh>
Sure, I can give you shitloads of Pkgfiles with patches
<SiFuh>
And you can compare them with ukky's and emmett1's
<SiFuh>
ukky: We can offload MUSL onto farkuhar :-)
<SiFuh>
ukky: farkuhar can be the new jaeger, you can be jue, and oh, oh, I want to be the new beerman :-)
<SiFuh>
Oh wait. No, I don't want to do ports. Screw that.
<ukky>
:)
<SiFuh>
That's a sissy job.
<ukky>
imho, it would be better if farkuhar picks up musl patches and maintain them, as he will use musl setup
<SiFuh>
I think we all maintain them if we end up all using MUSL.
<SiFuh>
And don't forget, King remiliascarlet is here and may start using MUSL too
<ukky>
For King remiliascarlet to start using musl, we have to switch to fully static linking
<SiFuh>
I am not against the idea.
<SiFuh>
Just use up more disk space
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: That was a key of Per's design. Use minimal diskspace.
<farkuhar>
King remiliascarlet needs to drop some knowledge on stenur, getting him to abandon the prospect of statically-linked pkgutils with glibc.
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: If you haven't figured it out yet stenur is usually more right than anyone else.
<SiFuh>
ukky: Did you statically build anything in the MUSL ISO?
<SiFuh>
I never did.
<farkuhar>
SiFuh: Heh, the German arrogance seems to have rubbed off on you.
<zorz>
farkuhar: hahaahahhahaa
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: No, I like stenur
<SiFuh>
The other Germans suck shit.
<SiFuh>
stenur makes sense in an incoherent way.
<SiFuh>
HAHA
<ukky>
SiFuh: No, I didn't change any port from dynamic to static linking
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: Besides, I am British/French/Bavirian. I should be the most arrogant.
<SiFuh>
ukky: Thanks.
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: One of my great great great uncles was a body snatcher. Use to rob graves and sell the bodies for medical purposes.
<SiFuh>
Thought I'd mention that because that is pretty fucking cool.
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: My wife gets all emotional when she sees a dead body. I never understood that
<farkuhar>
Why did zorz come out of lurking-mode just to laugh at my "German arrogance" comment?
<SiFuh>
For me, it is an empty box. But I understand the sadness of a person whose life has ended here.
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: He's a tight jean wearing faggot, stalking this channel?
<SiFuh>
zorz: farkuhar is thinking to say 'fuck you zorzy'
<SiFuh>
ukky: ^ based on a shitty Canadian TV series.
<SiFuh>
Letterkenny (TV Series 2016-2023)
<farkuhar>
SiFuh: He stalks the channel so well, it takes him almost 90 minutes to come up with a quip connecting the handbook to your grip strengthening suggestion.
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: Fscking stalkers
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: Are you familiar with HAM radio terms?
<SiFuh>
But half brother had a handle that basically meant 'lurker' but to this day I can't remember it.
<farkuhar>
SiFuh: not familiar with HAM radio, sorry
<SiFuh>
HAM radio is awesome, you should get into it
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: It began to die in Malaysia in 2012. By 2021 the channels were taken over by DTV. So the airways are pretty much silent 24/7
<farkuhar>
ukky didn't *change* any port from dynamic to static linking, but as stenur's issue reminds us, pkgutils was already configured to do static linking. On MUSL I haven't been able to reproduce stenur's error, though.
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: Would it make sense that pkgutils were dynamic?
<SiFuh>
On a similar note, would it not be best if all of core was static?
<farkuhar>
Since it makes more sense to link pkgutils statically, why did you claim "I never did (statically build anything in the MUSL ISO)"?
<ukky>
imho, pkgutils should be built static. For _all_ core ports: no. For that, Crux has to be redesigned and be more like OpenBSD, with static minimal filesystem.
<ukky>
btw, none of 'prt-get isinst' commands return 'true' in _all_ Pkgfiles when building ISO even when port is installed. This is because /usr/ports is empty when building ISO in stages 1 and 2.
<farkuhar>
ukky: For most core ports it shouldn't matter; the build process is supposed to be only trivially affected by the presence of non-core ports (e.g., bash-completion or ccache). And for opt or xorg ports where the 'isinst' command returns false, all the better --- the non-essential features get disabled that way.
<ukky>
farkuhar: xorg/mesa might be affected. Just saying. This shold be considered when adding 'prt-get isinst' to Pkgfiles.
<farkuhar>
Heh, that could be one reason why SiFuh wanted to do a core-only ISO.
<farkuhar>
btw, SiFuh and emmett1 doing their core-only ISO for CRUX-MUSL 3.7 did not prompt the creation of a second Handbook. I seriously doubt a second Handbook will need to be written for CRUX-MUSL 3.8
<farkuhar>
If anything, the work that ukky has done (to make the CRUX-MUSL ISO so closely aligned with the official CRUX ISO) renders a second Handbook even less necessary. The argument could be made that the existing Handbook did not fit SiFuh's core-only ISO, but nobody installing from that ISO reported confusion stemming from irrelevant sections of the Handbook.
<ukky>
musl-install should have a note about locale-gen (it is missing) and locales in general.
<ukky>
Firefox for musl might require a bigger stack when compiled from sources.
<ukky>
ldd script in glibc is more advanced compared to musl
<ukky>
No 32-bit program support in musl64
<farkuhar>
Speaking of firefox ... the flexible rust-bin port that I worked on last week was able to compile only a few smaller rust projects. Bigger ports like firefox require features that don't ship with the rust musl binaries provided upstream (e.g., full backtrace).
<ukky>
These are the differences that I can think of
<ukky>
There might be option '--disable-backtrace'
<farkuhar>
We probably cannot insist that every maintainer of a rust-dependent port toggle that option, though. If they leave backtrace enabled, then rust-bin won't be a drop-in replacement for rust, at least in the context of building that dependent port.
<farkuhar>
I guess I could expand the README of the rust-bin port, so that it's more obvious what the user might be losing by taking such a shortcut to satisfy the rust dependency.
<dlcusa>
Look-up "forearms" in the dictionary and you'll see this picture: data:image/webp;base64,UklGRiAUAABXRUJQVlA4IBQUAABQTACdASrsAIgAPrlQoEunJKMhqzjcAOAXCWUIcrGR7Aio8fl/Mt7uSP4Tw58sHvTcD/Fcu9pX1eflexD+W7zflT/ieoF+U/0v/a70XaD0AvaT6//wPVl+08yvEA/V3/k+xPe3+f+wB+h/+57R391/5/9X/pfUN9Nf+//Q/Ab/OP7h6a3sT/b3//+6b+yv/4PnYdpNRIodjF5bc1kbkHQLuRrLtvcWcHes+8nqyZJgcOYjM2jnpnUtzxScxoKMO17BNMl7x1HUA7zj1npnkt6AiaarsCI97spJhVz5oFrFYI0PrZVigl7lep9XL