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<SiFuh>
dlcusa_: OpenBSD thinks there are 4 cores because due to security issues it disables Simultanious Multi Threading by default. You can enable it with smt=1 in /etc/sysctl.conf. "Note that SMT doesn't necessarily have a positive effect on performance; it highly depends on the workload. In all likelyhood it will actually slow down most workloads if you have a CPU with more than two cores."
<SiFuh>
I am two stories up, so very close to the ceiling and it freaking hot up there
<zorz>
yes... when army in cyprus with 50 degrees working on tanks.... fuck sake when sweat drops in the eyes!!!! the worst of all
<SiFuh>
I extended the ladder to three levels (almost) and I am using another ladder (A step ladder) tied to the middle to stop the flex, because I need to balance when leaning outwards. The only other way I could put that latter up means there will be a flight of stairs going down directly behind me. Which means, if i did fall off the ladder, I'd hit the stairs and fall down that as well.
<zorz>
i am not worried.... you aint gonna fall
<zorz>
SiFuh: do you know this https://www.metaculus.com/home/ this thing is amazing... forecasters i forgot to tell you. I used this on elections, on btc, gold
<zorz>
their was a bet 1 year ago that trump will end up in jail.... almost.
<zorz>
the small one... you are safe between 2 walls
<SiFuh>
I no but if you are leaning in awkward positions slightly off balance you wan't no vibration.
<SiFuh>
no/know
<SiFuh>
That ladder is only to stop vibration/flex
<SiFuh>
I can lean forward, backwards, go up and down, lean left with right leg sticking out the right and lean right with the left sticking out and no bounce, no flex, no vibration.
<SiFuh>
Reminds me of when I was a kid. My father made a wooden hook attached to the ladder so he can hang over the roof and screw the roof iron in. To be safe he was attaching a rope to assist in holding the ladder down. When we got near to the end. He was in a hurry and said to me not to bother with the rope. I said no and yelled at me and told me to stop. I kept on tying the rope on and said he will hit me
<SiFuh>
if I keep on tying. He gets to the end of the ladder and it flips off the roof. I am still holding on the rope as tight as I can and if it wasn't for me holding on to it and the several turns around the ladder rungs, he'd have fallen off the second highest part of the roof and I would have been catapulted across the yard.
<SiFuh>
After that scare, he reset the ladder position and I started to tie the rope around it again and he started yelling at me saying it doesn't need it. Then... same thing happened again. After the two scares he decided to let me tie the rope around.
<zorz>
hahaha
<zorz>
SiFuh: last night i unistalled newsboat, go and rust...at pkg_delete -a i saw a libssh2 it comes with rust this is the diff of the pkg_info https://dpaste.com/E8FZQLCRU
<zorz>
also uninstalling news boat it uninstalled libarchive-3.7.2 ok its patched... but if you do not need - out.
<zorz>
only firefox-esr. cannot uninstall selenium scrape
<zorz>
its ok.
<zorz>
hahaha remember because of this Port: librsvg-2.57.2 i left crux for openbsd.
<zorz>
i have it again... but i do not compile it :P
<SiFuh>
By the way zorz
<SiFuh>
[06 46 42] [dlcusa> OpenBSD seems to think there are only 4 cores--well, top only reports 0,2,4,6--it may think hyperthreading is afoot.
<SiFuh>
[06 48 51] [zorz> strange for openbsd usually does not make mistakes.
<SiFuh>
zorz: You didn't remember or figure it out or help dlcusa?
<zorz>
i thought telling him of hw.smt... then i saw 4 cores... then i thought he is expert... I kept my mouth shut :P
<SiFuh>
Well I answered but I don't think he saw it yet.
<zorz>
he told me some chinese with terrabyte and pipe tv... no idea man.
<SiFuh>
Hahahahahahaha
<zorz>
HAHAHAHAHA
<SiFuh>
You mean 'it was all Greek to you?'
<zorz>
yes
<zorz>
in Greece we say its chinese to me!
<SiFuh>
Just like you don't have Greek food in a Greek restaurant?
<farkuhar>
tv are the concatenated short options for the tar command. t = list contents of the archive, v = verbose. I'm guessing he wanted to verify the integrity of the archives, without actually unpacking them to disk.
<zorz>
SiFuh: yes Greek restaurants outside of Greece are not greek at all.
<SiFuh>
zorz: So you have to go outside of Greece to eat Greek food? Hahaha
<zorz>
SiFuh: if you are SiFuh no place on earth to find greek food.
<zorz>
haha
<zorz>
farkuhar: 'lo
<farkuhar>
zorz: bonjour!
<zorz>
farkuhar: it is a good day body! Next Saturday i will be on the ferry for the island.
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<farkuhar>
Here's another almost-circular dependency involving ffmpeg, like the one ppetrov^ mentioned a few days ago. ffmpeg is a hard dependency for libsoxr, but if libsoxr is installed, ffmpeg will be configured with --enable-libsoxr. This might lead to breakage if a partial sysup leaves libsoxr linked to no-longer-existent libavcodec.so
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<farkuhar>
The workaround in this case: uninstall libsoxr, then rebuild ffmpeg (which will be configured with less eager linking). If libsoxr is still needed by something else, rebuild it against the latest ffmpeg.
<SiFuh>
This guy knows how to use a roller. I do this style. But for the stair case I am using a very tiny roller because more accuracy and it won't get in the way when I am balancing on the ladder.
<SiFuh>
I have an extension but the extension is not so good when you have stairs going up behind you.
<zorz>
in greece we pay somebody to do it... not expensive.
<SiFuh>
Here also, but they are all shit painters
<SiFuh>
I can see brush strokes, over painted areas, places missing paint, some places a single coat. It's retarded
<zorz>
yes always a problem... like the plumbers, or car mechanics
<SiFuh>
Well I have done many times before and I know I can do it better because I am very picky! Kind of like a cross between OCD and perfectionist. Hahaha
<zorz>
SiFuh_the_Perfectionist
<SiFuh>
zorz_the_master_of_the_bloody_obvious
<zorz>
:P
<zorz>
SiFuh: are you sfeed yet ?
<zorz>
man it pipes feed of infowars to less by converting it to txt with lynx... fucking fast
<zorz>
you read articles from infowars like man pages HAHAHA
<zorz>
sfeed if you set it up well superior to newsboat.
<SiFuh>
Middle of painting and she said she wants to install the old airconditioner from brother's room in the storeroom.
<SiFuh>
So I just spent some times shifting all the shit around to make it look like a junk room
<zorz>
why the store room or the brothers room ?
<SiFuh>
Store room
<zorz>
the brothers room.
<SiFuh>
Store room is full of food. Enough to feed the entire family for 6 months easily
<zorz>
good
<SiFuh>
Family as in her family. I need it concealed
<SiFuh>
Don't need airconditioning mechanics knowing what is in there
<zorz>
i see
<zorz>
yes better not
<SiFuh>
I just picked up a gecko to put in the greenhouse because I don't want them in the house. The first thing it does is shit everywhere.
<SiFuh>
So I was wondering. Is shitting out of fear? Or does it shit because it wants to taste good when it gets eaten?
<zorz>
heh, i dont know
<SiFuh>
One more coat where the ladder was, and I can work on the middle strip now
<zorz>
SiFuh: what happen in vietnam with the billionaire woman. If this law take place in USA & EU world will be a better place.
<SiFuh>
Well I think the Bank owners should be sentenced to death for looting the people
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<farkuhar>
Looks like zorz got scared away. Is there a Greek superstition against mentioning the death penalty?
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<SiFuh>
farkuhar: Maybe :-P
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: Been thinking about the stupidstition thing today. Bad luck to walk under a ladder and yet the only way to get downstairs is under the ladder
<farkuhar>
Maybe it's an irssi plugin he's testing. One that reacts to objectionable content by logging out for a few minutes.
<farkuhar>
That wall-mounted light fixture in https://s3.amazonaws.com/i.snag.gy/u2F7cE.jpg casts an intimidating shadow of SiFuh onto the ceiling. Not big enough to scare away the geckos, though.
<SiFuh>
Hahah
<SiFuh>
Geckoes are my most favorite animals in the world, and I also like Onychophora and Jelly Fish
<SiFuh>
I don't want them in the house because they are not toilet trained
<SiFuh>
I should be finished the wall to my right today. The wall in front and behind I can't until the wall on the right dries. No where to put the ladder
<zorz>
Death penalty is brutal!, if this law active in Greece from 10 million population will be not even the half :P
<SiFuh>
Bring the death penalty back.
<zorz>
can someone explain me ssh xyz@49.13.202.157 "sleep 3 && cd /home/xyz/rocket && ./update-db.sh && sleep 2 && exit"
<zorz>
the update-db.sh does some sql job and last thing is this /usr/bin/nohup uvicorn main:app --host 0.0.0.0 --port 8000 > server.log 2>&1 &
<zorz>
why the nohup does not work when not connected to shell, but send this command ssh xyz@49.13.202.157 "sleep 3 && cd /home/xyz/rocket && ./update-db.sh && sleep 2 && exit"
<zorz>
???
<zorz>
any geanious in the room?
<SiFuh>
You see into a box and it sleeps for 3 seconds then it changes directory if the previous command was successful. Then it runes update-sb.sh script and if successful it sleeps for 2 seconds and if successful it logs out of the box you sshd in.
<SiFuh>
see/ssh
<zorz>
so let me try without sleep, since i am sleeping
<zorz>
SiFuh: i end up uninstalling pip packages, installing the distro ones and keep on using nohup... cause i like the log of nohup.
<zorz>
Alcohol High!!!
<SiFuh>
I use pip3 mostly because it isn't system wide
<zorz>
I always use pip3... but... on the cloud... cannot get the executable... so
<zorz>
i unistalled the pip packages and i installed the distro packages.
<SiFuh>
Cloud?
<zorz>
pip-review is a nice package SiFuh but be carefull read the RTFM
<zorz>
htzner cloud server
<zorz>
the site runs on uvicorn.
<SiFuh>
I run beer
<zorz>
ooooo this is the best!
<zorz>
its hot, you get thirsty...
<SiFuh>
Done painting for today. I won't do any more until tomorrow
<SiFuh>
Storeroom and brewing room will be super high gloss so Gecko shit doesn't stain the walls
<zorz>
HAHAHA
<zorz>
READ the HACCP rules :)
<zorz>
hahahahahahaa
<SiFuh>
No
<zorz>
playing with sfeed today.. i read twice Ubuntu Security Notice 6721-2 - USN-6721-1 fixed vulnerabilities in X.Org X Server. That fix was incomplete resulting in a regression. This
<zorz>
whats wrong in ubuntu... twice I read fix was incomplete
<SiFuh>
Did you read OJ Simpson died?
<zorz>
so they push update a fix... which is incomplete
<zorz>
no
<zorz>
i did not
<zorz>
cancern
<zorz>
seems openbsd has issues with chromium but who cares
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<zorz>
so as understand ubuntu pushes fix, and then pushes fix for the fix and again pushes fix for the fix of the fix :PPpp
<dlcusa>
SiFuh, zorz: Sorry for the long delays. I know a lot, not know it all. I've forgotten at least 10x mor technical stuff about IBM mainframes than most application programers ever knew. No one is perfect, so humility is indicated.
<zorz>
dlcusa: this is what I said... you know more than I do.
<dlcusa>
I decided to build that Linux kernel and went dark to concentrate--not as easy as it used to be.
<SiFuh>
zorz: Yeah but all you had to do was tell dlcusa to enable smt=1 in /etc/sysctl.conf which you already knew
<zorz>
i thought he did. sorry
<zorz>
./exec cat /etc/sysctl.conf
<dlcusa>
I may on some things, zorz, but I'd need to talk to a therapist if I thought I was the cat's pajamas about anything.
<dlcusa>
Anyway, I'm building a not-quite bleeding edge kernel, and make -j 8 also triggers the freeze sooner or later. It was so much easier back before 1.0 and Debian 1.0^H1.
<SiFuh>
Hehehe 1.0 and 1.1 were easy
<SiFuh>
No one cared about 1.0 since it was never made public, but when 1.1 came out my brother had to get it.
<dlcusa>
Debian 1.0 was superseded by 1.1 within 24 hours because a CD seller pushed the last rc as 1.0 to get the jump on the competition.
<SiFuh>
My brother was a debian fan. I never touched it until around 2014
<dlcusa>
I was waiting for 1.0.
<SiFuh>
I had no computers then. I was mostly working on cars. I was also doing Plumbing, White/Black appliance repairs, Antenna Installation, going Jungle and working for the Emergency Services
<dlcusa>
Now I'm running Devuan 5 on the Sabertooth.
<dlcusa>
SiFuh, you may be the closest person I know that is a jack of all trades and master of all.
<SiFuh>
You mean a 'A jack of all trades and a master of none'?
<dlcusa>
No, you're a master, though perhaps not a Ph.D ;-)
<SiFuh>
I don't have a Ph.D :-P I don't need Permanent Head Damage
<dlcusa>
Lazarus Long said "... Specialization is for insects."
<SiFuh>
I agree
<SiFuh>
Although my insects are pretty clever.
<dlcusa>
However, need can make good use of real specialists and need them, too.
<dlcusa>
s/need/we need/
<dlcusa>
Oh, n/m.
<SiFuh>
Like sewing on a lopped off organ your wife angrily sliced off after catching you cheating on her?
<dlcusa>
That's an important specialization for sure.
<SiFuh>
I still can't forget the photo of a guy on the front page of the Thai news paper. Sitting like a Buddha pointing down their with a black censored mark stamped over it.
<SiFuh>
This was back in 2002 I think Maybe 2003
<dlcusa>
The guy that happened to in the USA decades ago starred in a porn film titled, "Uncut".
<SiFuh>
He cheated on his wife and before being shipped off to hospital the paramedics taped him up and the police took photos of him sitting there pointing
<SiFuh>
dlcusa: HAHAHAHA
<zorz>
dlcusa: you know that you can run debian with sysvinit out of the box. no need for devuan ?
<zorz>
if you use sysvinit with devuan.
<SiFuh>
zorz: calm down
<zorz>
ok
<SiFuh>
Connection to nfs closed by remote host.
<SiFuh>
Connection to nfs closed.
<zorz>
nfs calm down
<SiFuh>
Connecting to the NFS running 7.5 can't likes to disconnect a lot
<SiFuh>
dlcusa: Yeah, and he is holding it wrong as well. The stock is not even pressed against his shoulder correctly. His elbow is too high. The left hand isn't clutching it properly and the biggest mistake of all. His finger is on the trigger. What the fsck for? How can he see anything when the sites on backwards.
<dlcusa>
zorz, I firmly believe in patronizing businesses/organizations you want to remain in business/organized.
<dlcusa>
SiFuh, it's all part of the master plot to bring the USA down hard and long.
<farkuhar>
The Debian/Devuan split should serve as a cautionary tale. The systemd/sysvinit rift in Debian's developer community created two projects that proceeded more haltingly than before. If the much smaller CRUX volunteer community suffered such a rift (over linux-PAM?), then the separate projects might struggle to keep going.
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: crux-arm, crux-i686, crux-i586
<SiFuh>
Still be crux. Still be hosted in contrib. I am sure jaeger will accept the iso
<zorz>
farkuhar: in crux is easy.... you do not serve compiled programs.
<zorz>
devuan uses debian packages... so whats the point to run devuan for sysvinit... ok if you want another init like s6 .
<zorz>
you install devuan... the apt uses debian .
<zorz>
crux... is different....
<zorz>
crux needs the developers to work on the core. the developers only hadling port scripts.
<farkuhar>
SiFuh: the contrib repo isn't the main locus of the controversy, though. Ports in the core collection would be the first casualties from the removal of linux-pam.
<SiFuh>
Core is the only thing we focus on.
<SiFuh>
Nothing else. It's simple. You want to install a port that is in opt or contrib or xorg that has linux-pam as dependency then that is entirely up to you what to do.
<SiFuh>
Our job is to purify the core to a very basic core as close to what Per had from the start
<zorz>
i agree with sifuh
<zorz>
pam is out... python stays hard dependancy of gpg
<SiFuh>
zorz: is gpg needed ?
<farkuhar>
python is also a hard dependency of meson, which is the preferred alternative to autotools configure scripts these days.
<zorz>
this is another sotry
<zorz>
story
<zorz>
this is up to you... if you decide to keep gpg
<SiFuh>
Well autotools should be eradicated then
<farkuhar>
Some upstream projects still haven't switched to meson or cmake. Heck, even the official prt-get still runs ./configure.
<SiFuh>
Guess it is about time they change then
<farkuhar>
My forked repo of prt-get uses meson by default. No autotools dependency since last year.
<zorz>
they say with meson you can do dependancy management
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: Does you fork of prt-get use linux-PAM?
<zorz>
if you can go only with cmake..... go with cmake
<farkuhar>
SiFuh: why on earth would it need to use linux-PAM?
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: Ahh, so that is why it isn't the official CRUX repository yet.
<SiFuh>
isn't in*
<zorz>
hahaha
<farkuhar>
SiFuh: you're not making sense. The official prt-get doesn't use linux-PAM either. Lack of a linux-PAM dependency is not a disqualification for being a core port.
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: It was a joke dude
<farkuhar>
hahaha
<farkuhar>
zorz: why you prefer cmake? Does it bother you that meson requires python3?
<zorz>
to complicated...meson is better but do you really need all of meson extra goodies ?
<zorz>
cmake with ninja is karate staff :PPp
<SiFuh>
Karate no Ninja!
<zorz>
Agree!!!
<farkuhar>
maybe no need for extra goodies ... but the meson documentation is much more readable than the cmake documentation, or at least it was better organized when I made the conversion from autotools. That was the primary motivation for choosing meson.
<SiFuh>
zorz: It's a mash up of the quote. When Sho Kosugi says "He is no Ninja!" twice in the movie "Enter the Ninja"
<zorz>
the only ninja I know is Shinobi!
<SiFuh>
Shinobi no mono
<zorz>
Sega
<SiFuh>
Mortal Kombat has many
<zorz>
Wonder boy, Shinobi, and of course Bouble Bouble... last games I played :)
<farkuhar>
actually I could probably get away with plain Makefiles, for a project as self-contained as prt-get. No need for autotools, meson, or cmake; just define the targets and write the gcc commandline manually.
<zorz>
just change cmake --install cmake --build.... flags... cmake is nice.
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: Ol' Skool!
<farkuhar>
SiFuh: yeah, I wonder why jw even bothered with autotools in the first place. Or was that added later, when they envisioned prt-get being ported to other platforms?
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: Unsure.
<SiFuh>
prt-get didn't exist in the early days, I wonder if there are records of what jw was doing in my irssi logs.
<farkuhar>
SiFuh: according to the ChangeLog, jw moved to autoconf/automake in version 0.2.8 (2002-06-30). There were nine numbered releases before that (0.1 through 0.2.7)
<SiFuh>
Hmm no reason why?
<SiFuh>
Maybe jw just learned how to use autotools and thought it would be a cool feature?
<farkuhar>
Or maybe they were actively promoting the OpenBSD port (which was still being worked on as late as version 0.5.12), and autotools was the easiest way to support multiple platforms.
<farkuhar>
The date associated with version 0.5.12 is pretty weird, though: 00.04.2006 is what, the zeroth of April 2006? Wouldn't that usually be written 31 March 2006?
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: CRUX never intended to support multiple platforms. It was strictly i686
<SiFuh>
In those days I was the one working on the Sparc64 version of CRUX and morlenxus was working on the i586 version.
<farkuhar>
SiFuh: we're talking about prt-get, not CRUX in general. A tool to manage compilation of ports would be useful on many platforms beyond the i686 that CRUX was intended for.
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: Well, it is in the wild now
<zorz>
haha, its funny.... i think that meson is what is systemd for init systems :PPpp
<SiFuh>
No, it's linux-PAM
<zorz>
farkuhar: give to the people something exotic :: mk :: which is highly POSIX-compliant.
<zorz>
SiFuh: is right 30 packages core
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<zorz>
i was listening to a conversation now that in states, people are in dept because of the degree till they go in pansion. public uni 50k loan, private uni 200k loan. and in order to work they move to a metropolis like new york rent is expensive, payment of loan is expensive... and all why? for the companies to have staff. FUCK THE BULLSHIT
<SiFuh>
In Western Christian art, the fruit of the tree is commonly depicted as the apple, which originated in central Asia. This depiction may have originated as a Latin pun: by eating the mālum (apple), Eve contracted malum (evil).
<SiFuh>
According to the Bible, there is nothing to show the forbidden fruit of the tree of knowledge was necessarily an apple.
<zorz>
you told me delta lancia and lada niva you are in love with them..
<zorz>
i am with subaru wrx
<SiFuh>
You are correct
<zorz>
iam the whole day running python, firefox... after uninstalling this crap
<zorz>
watching videos now in firefox
<zorz>
11500 free ram.... better than linux.... steady
<zorz>
i went to install mc but comes with some dependancies... and because i do not have many files like you do no need i pass
<farkuhar>
zorz: since you like developing in python, maybe you'd appreciate ranger as a file manager? https://ranger.github.io/
<zorz>
farkuhar.... i have it for years....
<zorz>
i am with nnn
<farkuhar>
zorz: then why bother installing mc?
<zorz>
just installed ytree
<zorz>
and checking walk
<SiFuh>
Because saying the n word is naughty
<zorz>
i like to try new things..... i like the double pane of ranger previews.
<zorz>
but i prefer the x delete the space to select v to move p to paste of nnn
<SiFuh>
I always wonder why no one uses tmux as a file manager
<farkuhar>
zorz: "... and all why? for the companies to have staff." <- one of the few times that your constant conflating of stuff and staff doesn't impede readability.
<zorz>
my opinion is that universities are good for research etc etc, apart of that people finishing a university.... are trained to be good employees for companies.
<zorz>
thats all
<zorz>
at the end all of us will take 2 meters of ground, if not ashes :)
<SiFuh>
I have my shovel ready zorz
<zorz>
hahaha
<zorz>
when ready i will come to you.
<remiliascarlet>
Most of those university "researches" these days tend to be ill-informed. Most of the "researches" outside of universities are sold out to those who want to manipulate the market or the public in general.
<zorz>
exactly everything is business
<zorz>
hello remiliascarlet
<SiFuh>
zorz: No it is not
<zorz>
SiFuh: okay
<farkuhar>
SiFuh: would you need a heavily customized tmux.conf to use it as a file manager? Out of the box, it doesn't seem to provide all the bells and whistles of mc or ranger.
<zorz>
SiFuh: is 30 years with mc.... forget about it :)
<zorz>
SiFuh: does not change fluxbox :PPp
<farkuhar>
zorz: SiFuh is the one who suggested using tmux as a file manager. I'm just asking him to follow up on that comment.
<zorz>
sorry :)
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: I think not.
<SiFuh>
Maybe I could look into it. But I have always wondered
<zorz>
actually walk is good.
<farkuhar>
zorz: is it safe to be walking at this hour? Isn't it the middle of the night in your timezone?
<zorz>
02:18
<zorz>
why in states, not safe walking in the night ?
<farkuhar>
At that hour I'd be worried about getting hit by a drunk driver, even if I wore a reflective vest.
<zorz>
hahaha
<remiliascarlet>
Over here it's safe to walk 24/7 in any part of the country.
<zorz>
ok you never know.... never had a problem anywhere... my job restaurants... always walking in the night.
<remiliascarlet>
Maybe with the exception of Kabukicho in Shinjuku, because Yakuza scams and foreigners fighting each other while drunk happen there often.
<zorz>
this is between them...
<remiliascarlet>
Kabukicho is where police is a lot stricter than anywhere else, and every time you hear foreigners complain about being stopped by police and "racially profiled", it always turns out it happens in that specific area. They don't seem to realize that they do this to Japanese people in that same area in the same quantities.
<zorz>
remiliascarlet: the police is the boss in Kabukicho, if police wants to stop it... they can do.
<farkuhar>
zorz_gr is still wearing tight-arsed jeans? The trend-setters are moving in a different direction now: https://text.npr.org/1241145778
<zorz>
farkuhar: never wear skinny jeans
<zorz>
is levi 501 skinny ?
<zorz>
farkuhar: do not listen to SiFuh :)
<zorz>
farkuhar: i was looking to play with a file manager and i found ncdu..... ncdu is nice. :)
<farkuhar>
I don't know levi 501 in particular. But I trust SiFuh to be accurate, even when he's throwing insults.
<farkuhar>
zorz: yes, ncdu is very convenient if you want to locate the bloat in your home directory.
<zorz>
farkuhar: do not put your hand in fire with SiFuh , you will get burnt.
<zorz>
farkuhar: ncdu stays,,, i liked it... did not know
<farkuhar>
hand in fire gets burnt, with or without SiFuh
<zorz>
its like saying do not blind trust everything he says :)