<remiliascarlet>
zorz: Computers no longer compile fast, because most software nowadays is all bloatware filled with layers of dependencies, Ubuntuism, Debianism, or just Linuxism, and most "modern" crap is made by Javascript developers nowadays too.
<remiliascarlet>
SiFuh: "It was stolen. They were handed the keys and the philosophy and they rejected the philosophy and used the name. That is theft" So you understand now that when it comes to software development, "democracies" never work, and that "dictatorships" always tend to be better?
<remiliascarlet>
SiFuh: "If Linux-Pam is so fucking great then why is Linux only using it?" Reminds me to when Jonathan Blow talked about graphics API's. He said how Apple keeps boasting about how awesome Metal is, but yet they keep it exclusive to macOS and iOS. If it really was awesome, they would release it for all the other OS's too, and everyone would want to use it.
<remiliascarlet>
SiFuh: "OpenBSD is the slowest OS on the planet dude" OpenBSD is slow, but it just works. NetBSD is faster, but is very buggy.
<remiliascarlet>
https://invidious.jing.rocks/watch?v=wXwfuMIC0k0 The thing is, Apple isn't going to be made great again until you get them desperate for money or get bankrupt. Apple was desperate for money in the late 1990s/early 2000s, and actually gave consumers what they wanted. Then they released the iPhone, got massive success, and went to shit ever since.
<remiliascarlet>
Pretty different from Nintendo. During the 3DS and Wii U generation they were bleeding money, so they assaulted YouTubers to get ad revenue for survival. Now during the Switch generation, they're assaulting all their most loyal fans including YouTubers over "intelectual property violations" because they get so much money now, they need to somehow balance out their balance sheet to avoid paying
<remiliascarlet>
too much taxes.
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<dlcusa>
Okay, OpenBSD install log pasted into http://dpaste.com/DRHSS8AQU -- phone's OCR had trouble with that font and organization, and I may not have caught all the errors. Finally, this wake cycle is ending.
<SiFuh>
dlcusa: I have never seen that happen before.
<SiFuh>
Also you don't need /usr/src and /usr/obj. Will it do the same if you manually partition?
<SiFuh>
Savannah Graziano, a teenage kidnapping victim, is tragically shot dead by police while running towards them for help
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<remiliascarlet>
dlcusa: Looks like you're installing to a USB flash drive.
<SiFuh>
remiliascarlet: That's what he wants
<remiliascarlet>
O\Oh.
<SiFuh>
zorz: I just tested the temperature of the water with a thermometer. 45 Celsius.
<remiliascarlet>
Perhaps doing a custom partition scheme would be better. So a: for `/`, and b: for swap.
<remiliascarlet>
And of course c: being the entire thing, but nothing else.
<SiFuh>
That might work
<SiFuh>
54.6G for a and 5G for b
<remiliascarlet>
Also, you might need to plug in 2 USB drives. One with the OpenBSD installer, and the other the one you want to install OpenBSD on.
<remiliascarlet>
Unless it's what he's already doing.
<SiFuh>
Already
<remiliascarlet>
zorz: Computers no longer compile fast, because most software nowadays is all bloatware filled with layers of dependencies, Ubuntuism, Debianism, or just Linuxism, and│ most "modern" crap is made by Javascript developers nowadays too.
<SiFuh>
Maybe it is the wrong USB drive?
<SiFuh>
remiliascarlet: And Covid is not real
<SiFuh>
Hahaha
<remiliascarlet>
Well, sd3 is a lot smaller, so maybe that's the installer USB.
<SiFuh>
remiliascarlet: Ahh yeah, I didn't see that
<remiliascarlet>
SiFuh: Sadly, most software nowadays are written by Covid-tards, very few people in open source seem to be injected.
<remiliascarlet>
Fuck...
<remiliascarlet>
Very few people in open source seem NOT to be injected.
<SiFuh>
Yeah, I noticed that
<SiFuh>
I wonder if Theo got injected
<remiliascarlet>
I think not. If he would, he'd probably urge everyone else to get injected as well.
<remiliascarlet>
Just like Linus Torvalds and Richard Stallman, they both did.
<zorz>
?
<zorz>
which water, tap ?
<SiFuh>
Yes
<zorz>
no idea.
<SiFuh>
It's been extremely hot here for a couple of weeks. Turn on the tap and out comes hotwater. As you should know in Malaysia most houses don't have hotwater because it isn't used much
<zorz>
but you have, the solar panel style hot water during the day.
<zorz>
greece is full of hot water from solar power, every home/house.
<zorz>
SiFuh: after playing a few days around for the laptop I found balance in hw.smt=1 and login.conf staff parameters doubled the original numbers. Thats the only settings. runs extremely well and I think heavy python load better than linux.
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<SiFuh>
Saw that video years ago and recently and now again
<zorz>
I new it! :Ppp
<zorz>
but is good to remind ourselves every now and then.
<SiFuh>
What? That Theo is not very handsome?
<zorz>
python is only slower when it runs and have to write files..... if the file is written and only read, I think faster.
<zorz>
who cares about handsome or not..... the OpenBSD to be handsome we care.
<SiFuh>
ppetrov^: metis openmpi libxslt are the three ports that won't compile. I know why and I don't need them
<ppetrov^>
openmpi i use
<ppetrov^>
do you mean it will break if i try to rebuild it?
<SiFuh>
I don't know. Let me check the reason.
<lavaball>
i need a way to confirm my pfizer girl isn't contagious.
<SiFuh>
Blood sample
<ppetrov^>
heh
<lavaball>
but i read the shit collects in the overies.
<lavaball>
i want to put my dick in there.
<lavaball>
seriously, she's like ready like a race horse.
<zorz>
counts the salt in the water of feta cheese
<zorz>
PESE SEL they call it hahahaha
<SiFuh>
I need this?
<SiFuh>
They have them for water, salt, battery acid, ethanol, beer, and so on. They measure density of a liquid by using gravity. They are calibrated to specific temperatures (Most commonly 15 and 20 Celsius) and for use at sea level.
<SiFuh>
There are also refractometers that use light
<SiFuh>
There are also electronic versions that float in your wort and transmit the tilt angle through WiFi
<SiFuh>
zorz: There are many, here is a short list. Alcoholometer, Lactometer, Saccharometer, Thermohydrometer, Battery hydrometer, Antifreeze tester, Acidometer, Barkometer, Salinometer and Urinometer
<zorz>
this thing you do not fuck, it fucks you... dont like
<SiFuh>
A Somali migrant is due to stand trial in Sweden next week for the murder of his pregnant girlfriend he is suspected of strangling to death to hide from his family the fact he was in a relationship with a non-Muslim, non-Somali woman.
<SiFuh>
zorz: I take it you have never watched Archer?
<zorz>
no I did not
<SiFuh>
Moderna Developing mRNA Vaccines For Diseases Linked to Covid Shots
<remiliascarlet>
SiFuh: I agree with lavaball; the only way to stop the 15 minute city thing is to get rid of smartphones en mass.
<SiFuh>
Venezuelan farmer Juan Vicente Perez Mora has passed away two months before his 115th birthday
<SiFuh>
remiliascarlet: The only way to stop 15 minute cities is to get rid of those self-proclaimed elites
<zorz>
xz backdoor was planted by chinesse ? Jia Tan? is chinesse? Trump would say China is the Evil! :Ppp
<SiFuh>
A father of 11 children, as of 2022 he had 42 grandchildren, 18 great-grandchildren and 12 great-great-grandchildren.
<zorz>
Tsaaaiinnnaaaa ... how Trump talks.
<zorz>
115
<zorz>
yes but Juan Vicente Perez did not drink beer and vodka + moonshine.
<SiFuh>
Dude he drank aguardiente every day
<zorz>
1 shot... not 1 liter
<SiFuh>
Aguardente, or aguardiente, is a type of distilled alcoholic spirit that contains between 29% and 60% alcohol by volume.
<SiFuh>
His secret to a long life, according to Guinness World Records, was to “work hard, rest on holidays, go to bed early, drink a glass of aguardiente every day, love God, and always carry him in your heart.”
<SiFuh>
Glass, not a shot
<zorz>
glass, = 2-3 shots
<remiliascarlet>
SiFuh: I don't think so. You get rid of the elites, and they'll just deploy another group of elites with the exact same talking points.
<SiFuh>
And for the record, if you look at all the longest living centaurians, they are all daily alcohol drinkers
<zorz>
If we start,,, we need glassessss
<SiFuh>
remiliascarlet: Who are they?
<remiliascarlet>
Puppets, pretty much.
<SiFuh>
remiliascarlet: I will try steamed beef again today. Think it needs to be salted first though.
<SiFuh>
When I go jungle again, I am going to flame roast it
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<SiFuh>
zorz: Did you just fart?
<zorz>
I am a polite person... something you know nothing about :Pp
<zorz>
i miss something here, but ... definetelly not!
<remiliascarlet>
Tight jeans vs bulky jeans, must be the fight of the week.
<SiFuh>
zorz: what month were you born?
<zorz>
I ll pass... I do not bother.
<zorz>
12 April 78
<zorz>
SiFuh: do you need the time aswell 4 am
<SiFuh>
Don't want to beat up an old man
<zorz>
Respect! :Ppp
<remiliascarlet>
And I thought zorz would be more like 1997 or something.
<SiFuh>
Did you know Otto Friedrich Ludwig von Wittelsbach?
<SiFuh>
remiliascarlet: It is funny because many think that.
<zorz>
remiliascarlet: looks are there.... 90 something
<remiliascarlet>
zorz: So you're 90 years old?
<remiliascarlet>
Or at least, look as suck?
<zorz>
haha remiliascarlet I drink coffe almost spit it on the laptop
<zorz>
meant look younger
<remiliascarlet>
On the other hand, if he were from 1997, he'd probably be unable to care about software bloat.
<zorz>
its because of the tight jeans :)
<remiliascarlet>
s/suck/such
<zorz>
my first computer was with no windows... msdos, basic, basic files
<zorz>
then i had windows 3.1
<zorz>
last version of windows I used was windows NT, kinda liked them.
<remiliascarlet>
I think my first was YggDrasil if I remember correctly, or Slackware. Not sure, I was still a little girl back then and didn't really care what was exactly running there. I had used DOS and Windows 3.11 for a bit, but that was the last time I used any Windows computer.
<SiFuh>
PC DOS 1988 IBM XT!
<remiliascarlet>
So looks like Taiwan had a magnitude 7.7 earthquake today.
<zorz>
then liked a lot the glamour of the bars and restaurants... and I concetrated in that. Computers nowdays are my hobby.
<zorz>
remiliascarlet: hopefully the chips are okay in Taiwan.
<SiFuh>
remiliascarlet: Old news. Happened this morning. Okinawa had Tsunami alert
<zorz>
I still need the server for the winter.
<zorz>
I will give shell access to SiFuh
<zorz>
50-70 euro a month, static IP ... OLE!!!
<remiliascarlet>
zorz: Is it true that NATO is (trying to) preparing for some war games with Blyatland?
<zorz>
okay the downside in greece I get electric power disconnections,
<remiliascarlet>
And I say "trying to", because I doubt they have any weapons left after having them all wasted on Ukraine.
<zorz>
you put UPS for the server... but the rooter? don know.
<zorz>
remiliascarlet: Blyatland ? what is this ?
<remiliascarlet>
Joke nickname for Russia.
<SiFuh>
zorz: Connect the router to the UPS as well as the server
<remiliascarlet>
Because "blyat" is a common swear word in Russia.
<remiliascarlet>
Like kurwa in Poland, or kurva in many other Eastern European countries.
<zorz>
SiFuh: this ok you do... infrastracture is ready in my new home. but the fiber box of the neighboor ?
<SiFuh>
I used a cyberpower 2000va
<zorz>
Like in Greece Pontios.... I get it remiliascarlet .
<zorz>
One thing that I got lucky in life is that my brother is more serious than I and he pushed me to clean the homes and devide what our parent had and now I am with 2 houses. Very important not to pay rent.
<SiFuh>
The Black Tak-Kana Sword from Black Ronin melds modern tactical innovation with traditional Samurai design to create a bladed weapon ready for today’s battlefields.
<SiFuh>
I reckon she will be able to take it back to Japan too
<zorz>
SiFuh: i fuck the numbers at the end https://dpaste.com/AFWFSMBBX now concetrate, rice this rice that rice the other one. fuck
<SiFuh>
Why CSV?
<SiFuh>
Why not spread sheet it then convert it to CSV?
<zorz>
SiFuh: my penthhouse in the city, that i will put the server if summer work well for me, i own the air on top, i will install solar panels. easily 17kw
<zorz>
with netmettering.
<SiFuh>
Oooooohhh Moonshiners S13E09 released.
<zorz>
SiFuh: parboiled is the american rice ? :Ppp
<SiFuh>
No
<SiFuh>
It's a style of cooking
<zorz>
everybody names the products as he likes,,,,, greeks we are fucked up
<SiFuh>
Parboiling is the partial or semi boiling of food as the first step in cooking. The word is from the Old French 'parboillir' but by mistaken association with 'part' it has acquired its current meaning. The word is often used when referring to parboiled rice. Parboiling can also be used for removing poisonous or foul-tasting substances from foods, and to soften vegetables before roasting them.
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<zorz>
okay,,, lets move to basmati :Ppp
<farkuhar>
ppetrov^, SiFuh: how reproducible are these builds of openmpi, metis, and libxslt? It sounds like they succeed on some systems but not on others.
<SiFuh>
zorz: Basmati is low starch so it sucks when making Sake
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: No idea, I just deleted them
<SiFuh>
And after removing openmpi boost was complaining
<SiFuh>
So I am recompiling boost without libmpi to see if it succeeds
<farkuhar>
SiFuh: were they meant to satisfy dependencies for something else you were trying to install?
<SiFuh>
Yes, and I can't remember which.
<SiFuh>
But I don't need them anyway. It's a repo server where I do builds on only. So I just removed them
<ppetrov^>
farkuhar, openmpi builds fine here. the rest i did not check
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: I don't have any supposedly dedicated CRUX machines anymore. So it doesn't concern me for now.
<ppetrov^>
SiFuh, OpenBSD only?
<farkuhar>
SiFuh: understood. But in case you're curious, I know at least three ports that mention openmpi as a (soft or hard) dependency: arpack, boost, and fftw.
<SiFuh>
ppetrov^: I have been OpenBSD dedicated since 2003 and have had CRUX and other linux installs as well. But mostly CRUX because it was the better. Last time my main driver was CRUX is when I had a nvidia GPU. Now everything is AMD and RADEON so no need for CRUX.
<ppetrov^>
I, for sure, am curious to try that might OpenBSD, however, I really have no time to invest in it :(
<SiFuh>
Understood. If you are a gamer then I wouldn't bother and if you use NVIDIA then don't even try. You are just wasting hardware.
<farkuhar>
SiFuh: smart of you to invest in hardware that's supported under BSD. I struggled several days trying to find drivers for the Broadcom BCM43228 wireless chipset on my last laptop, before finally giving up and buying a more compatible chip from eBay.
<farkuhar>
but that was back in 2019, so maybe the driver situation has improved since then.
<SiFuh>
remiliascarlet: My old boss called me back and said to call him if I go to Khon Kaen. I do anyway and also he said the SPARC 64 are government property. I said we will discuss it if I get to Khon Kaen but I am sure there is a way I can buy it and the money can go back to the government like how Western coutries auction off former government equipment. He says Yeah, right.
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: I think I have a BCM43228 here
<SiFuh>
Oh, the one I am thinking of is an RTL8192EU.
<zorz>
RTL tutti frutti
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: Is it a PC or a laptop?
<farkuhar>
SiFuh: the Broadcom chip was in my last laptop (Toshiba). I replaced the chip and put the machine to good use for a few more months, but then finally passed it along to a new owner.
<SiFuh>
The first linke, you can't run OpenBSD on it
<zorz>
Bravo-15-B7EX is like my delta, amdcpu amdgpu
<farkuhar>
I don't think I've ever relied on the wi-fi card being supported when doing an initial install. As long as the machine has an ethernet port, I prefer to establish a hard-wired connection rather than mess with wpa_supplicant on the live ISO.
<zorz>
first link was wronk,,, and actually last night i was checking thinkpads, xps which i love but full amd only bravo msi
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: Agree, I think wpa_supplicant sucks anyway. OpenBSD's Wi-Fi is better at configuration than Linux. However, the signals are not as good as Linux
<zorz>
actually my signal in openbsd is ok. never disconnects.
<zorz>
SiFuh: are you the tin-foil-hat-chatter ?
<zorz>
16:20:21 : #crux : cruxbridge : <tim> please spare this channel from tin-foil-hat-chatter. thanks.
<zorz>
no idea.
<farkuhar>
dlcusa attempted a rather uncommon install, though: booting from a USB drive and installing to a different USB drive. If that procedure caused him problems, imagine how much worse it would have been for zorz.
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: I have done this kind of install that dlcusa was doing, thousands of times with no issues at all.
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: Actually I discovered something strange with OpenBSD back in the 4.X days. If I do an install from USB to USB then booted into the new install, it would run rather slowly. However, if I then made a new USB with the exact same partition scheme and bootable, then copied the entire installed USB system over to the new USB. It would operate heaps faster when booting into it.
<farkuhar>
SiFuh: I believe you. On the other hand, someone like zorz who confused /dev/rsd0 for /dev/sd0 is liable to run into problems beyond what dlcusa experienced.
<SiFuh>
Haha good thing dlcusa_ ain't no zorz
<SiFuh>
Damn zorz pissed me off with that.
<zorz>
george self taught..... installed obsd just fine, and fuckin SiFuh he new i could not install iwx driver right away and he di not help
<zorz>
SiFuh: i will never forget that.
<SiFuh>
Hehe, you should have read the manual
<zorz>
because iwx driver is not in the installation media.... george even did bootable installation media with the driver in.
<SiFuh>
I remember buying a Linksys PCMICA Wi-Fi for my Toshiba Tecra 510CDT. OpenBSD hated it. Then I discovered they have firmware. Then it worked fantastic.
<farkuhar>
I'm still unclear on the timeline of what prompted SiFuh's latest rant against linux-pam. Apparently it followed from helping ppetrov^ troubleshoot a few ports. But the ports mentioned above (metis openmpi libxslt) seem unrelated to linux-pam.
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: You see the dpaste? How much more simple OpenBSD is for Wi-Fi compared to Linux?
<farkuhar>
SiFuh: yes, I agree that wi-fi configuration can be much simpler than how Linux does it.
<zorz>
now i found an abandoned very old usb-wifi, openbsd installation works fine with that usb-wifi
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: Oh, the rant was sparked when I did a sysup and it freaked out because of Linux-PAM being missing.
<zorz>
you install, and then you change the hostname.modem
<ppetrov^>
farkuhar, my issues were resolved by the core team members, by simply reverting util-linux build system to autotools
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: You can also use HEX join Jenjira_wifi wpakey 0xd80b42e64707e2f39c5be051ba4c4e3e0701e5ed60cc9f3405766c74727a46da
<zorz>
SiFuh: tonight i finish csv... tomorrow we will do unwind
<farkuhar>
Heh, next time before you do a sysup, make sure to mask the ports that depend on linux-pam, putting into your personal overlay the modified versions of openssh, shadow, libcap, opendoas, and util-linux.
<zorz>
SiFuh: i have to setup unwind, otherwise iam a useless bsd user... with no honor :PPpp
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: Also if you connect to only one network you use nwid <BSSID> wpakey <PASSWORD/HEX KEY>. But if you wish to join multiple Wi-Fi networks as you travel. Replace nwid with the word join. Then you put every entry in a list in the hostname.urwtn0 file
<SiFuh>
Or whatever interface you use for Wi-Fi
<farkuhar>
ppetrov^: the chatter in #crux-devel yesterday suggests that they'll revert back to the original meson build, once upstream fixes the meson targets to include pre-generated man-pages. Be on the lookout for more breakage, or just `prt-get lock util-linux` until the next version bump.
<ppetrov^>
hope they make sure that whatever builds against util-linux builds fine
<SiFuh>
I use to come on #crux and complain about broken ports all the time. Beerman and Romster use to always insult me about but everytime the solution was solved it was discovered that beerman or romster were the reason for the broken port
<farkuhar>
SiFuh: why antagonize beerman over in #crux? Are you trying to get yourself banned like stenur?
<zorz>
HAHA
<SiFuh>
beerman doesn't have operator status and stenur wasn't banned he was stripped of his access to the CRUX repo
<zorz>
antagonize=greek word / ανταγωνισμός αντα-γωνίζομαι αντι-αγώνας / anti play something :P
<zorz>
learn greek you will code better bash scripts :Ppp
<farkuhar>
Well, whoever does have operator status didn't appreciate stenur bad-mouthing the core team in a public forum, hence the IRC ban (in addition to stripping his commit privileges at crux.nu).
<zorz>
remiliascarlet: screwdriver is missing,,, thats how I go :-)
<remiliascarlet>
Cancel culture in full display?
<zorz>
ofcourse!
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: but zorz was never banned
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: but stenur was never banned
<zorz>
zorz, has nothing to do with linux :Ppp
<zorz>
as sibiria said yesterday.... who cares!
<remiliascarlet>
zorz: Due to a lack of a better word, calling "cancel culture" a culture is an insult to civilization.
<SiFuh>
03:20:41 [jue> stenur: we decided to ban you from here, the really bad comment in your libarchive report was too much, we will no longer accept your infamies
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: zorz was a mistake, I redid the sentence again
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: He wasn't banned either as Guest51
<remiliascarlet>
"zorz was a mistake" zorz is probably gonna be sad.
<SiFuh>
I worded it like that on purpose remiliascarlet :-P
* zorz
thanks remiliascarlet's interest
<zorz>
never had the intention to join the crux community, but with what I see lately I should run away :Pp
<SiFuh>
zorz: Many peoples personalities changed after the dreaded injectable
<zorz>
i will do only RedBullShits with remiliascarlet
<zorz>
SiFuh: I will never forget that you knew the iwx issue and never spoke :Ppp
<SiFuh>
beerman use to be nice but after he got his core access and serum he went into full cunt mode.
<remiliascarlet>
zorz: Sorry, but I don't drink communism.
<zorz>
SiFuh: if you dislike their work why dont you ask for access, and build crux as you suggest ?
<SiFuh>
remiliascarlet: Imperialism!
<SiFuh>
Hahaha
<zorz>
HAHAHAHA
<farkuhar>
the libarchive controversy also stemmed from switching build systems (autotools to cmake, then back to autotools when breakage was observed).
<SiFuh>
zorz: beerman rejected me from join the team. But he has no issues at all saying I contribute nothing.
<zorz>
SiFuh: if this is true.... changes many things.
<SiFuh>
Liek I said, he went into full cunt mode
<SiFuh>
He tormented stenur to no end. Constantly abusing stenur.
<zorz>
farkuhar: and all of this happen because of a chinesse guy by the name Jia Tan
<farkuhar>
relevant commits to core/libarchive: 2022-04-02 (use cmake) and 2022-12-19 (revert to autotools, then back to cmake with xz multithreaded compression explicitly enabled)
<SiFuh>
But the way I saw it, was the rest of the CRUX team didn't want all the workload and knowing that beerman was doing it, they let beerman get away with so much.
<SiFuh>
Microsoft software engineer Andres Freund, who discovered the backdoor
* zorz
offers a glass of Imperialism to everybody!
<SiFuh>
Oh yeah. Windows saves the day
<SiFuh>
The backdoor interferes with authentication in sshd via systemd
<farkuhar>
He's not just a Microsoft developer, though. He also contributes to postgresql, iirc.
<zorz>
maybe Jia Tan maybe he is Korean. all this names look chinese. If he was named Sato i know is Japanese ?
<zorz>
remiliascarlet: whats this that in 500 years everybody will be named Sato in Japan ?
<farkuhar>
SiFuh: how exactly did you apply to join the core team? If you ruffled some feathers in your application, I can see why they might have hesitated to welcome you into the inner circle.
<farkuhar>
Or as zorz would put it: phrase your request more diplomatically.
<zorz>
farkuhar: indeed... I told him, everything is politics
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: You ask and the decice 100% unanimously. One person rejects then you aren't in
<SiFuh>
I didn't care anyway. I have much more important issues to deal with
<farkuhar>
SiFuh: yes, but the manner of your request makes a difference. If you're rude and disparaging, that's enough to earn one vote against you.
<SiFuh>
I just find it childish that he is always say how much work he has to do, and how he contributes so much and the users are useless because they do nothing
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: It wasn't. It isn't even anything to what you are thinking. Also I even congratulated beerman for getting in.
<zorz>
o date, the Linux distributions to have confirmed impact from the attack include Fedora Rawhide and Fedora Linux 40 beta (but not Red Hat Enterprise Linux), openSUSE Tumbleweed and openSUSE MicroOS, Kali Linux, and Arch Linux. ==== Kali Linux the hackers got hacked. No hacker is using latest version of apps.
<zorz>
hahaha
<farkuhar>
Well, maybe beerman was relying on impressions he formed outside your actual request for core access. If you had demonstrated a consistently sunny personality on IRC (sans curmudgeonliness), maybe he would have had a more favorable reaction to your request.
<SiFuh>
I don't like assumptions farkuhar
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: Actually I will tell you why beerman doesn't like me. He insulted a newbie and I told beerman not to do it. Then he tried saying he has the right to because the guys an idiot so I told beerman to stop being a dick.
<SiFuh>
Simple. That is how it all began
<farkuhar>
Okay, thanks for explaining. It starts to make more sense now.
<SiFuh>
And I think this discussion should be over because I stood up for a new CRUX user and beerman insulted him.
<zorz>
SiFuh: if I were you I would never drink beer again, its included in word beerman :)
<SiFuh>
zorz?
<zorz>
RedBullShits :-)))
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: Oh and as a side note. I even apologized to beerman which I felt I shouldn't have had to do. Then he left #crux and only stayed in #crux-devel.
<ppetrov^>
SiFuh, that's a beautiful story
<SiFuh>
zorz: Temperature is better now. 34.9C in the house as opposed to 40.7C earlier today.
<SiFuh>
ppetrov^: My pleasure
<farkuhar>
SiFuh: funny that he set up a Matrix bridge that puts him back in the #crux channel again.
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: Yeah, zorz and I were laughing about it the other day
<zorz>
SiFuh: is 22:20 in the night man
<ppetrov^>
farkuhar, is this the weird "cruxbridge" i am seeing there?
<SiFuh>
ppetrov^: :-P
<zorz>
35 at 10 30 in the nite.... I am not comming!
<SiFuh>
zorz: Sun is moving over the equator. It does it twice a year
<farkuhar>
ppetrov^: Yes, that's the reason behind the nick. When overworked beerman gets a chance to write an update, you'll get to read the details on the crux.nu front page.
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: Actually I am looking forward to that
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: I think it was under Freenode and the logs will be on the old machine.
<farkuhar>
Actually beerman isn't the only one to join the channels via the Matrix bridge. So far I've also seen emmet1 and jloc0 behind the "cruxbridge" nick.
<zorz>
xmpp biboumi, or telegram @irc_bridge_bot
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: emmett1. jl0c, js, uncoiled and tim.
<farkuhar>
SiFuh: you obviously know tim and emmett1. Have you worked with the other three in all your years with CRUX?
<SiFuh>
Yes
<SiFuh>
I don't know uncoiled though
<SiFuh>
zorz: I wonder who the tin-foiled-hat chatters are. Do you think beerman was referring to remiliascarlet's comment?
<zorz>
who cares man...
<remiliascarlet>
I said "Covid is a hoax though", and then he said that, so I assume he was talking about me.
<ppetrov^>
yep
<SiFuh>
Well I don't know of anyone who wears tin-foiled-hats
<remiliascarlet>
I know one.
<SiFuh>
remiliascarlet: Maybe he was referring to ppetrov^ saying yes, yes. hahahaha
<zorz>
yes new passports have this chip, clever SiFuh !
<SiFuh>
remiliascarlet: zorz: Maybe the buffalos drink redbull and it gives them wings?
<zorz>
seriously ?
<zorz>
:Ppp
<SiFuh>
zorz: I built a Proxmark III to scan the passport when they first introduced the chips. Suppose to be encrypted. Well it ain't
<zorz>
like this hanging in an airport can hack anyone you like.
<zorz>
bank accounts
<zorz>
do not put ideas!
<SiFuh>
zorz: You need to be rathe close though. They don't work well if you are not nearby.
<SiFuh>
And if you card is in your wallet and your wallet is full of coins then it won't work either
<remiliascarlet>
farkuhar: Imagine new users who happen to be woke coming to CRUX, they see #crux, and it's nothing but cruxbot and Tim chatting from a Matrix bridge, and then they come to #crux-social, and they get triggered as fuck by our messages.
<remiliascarlet>
So "Chinese" is offensive to the Chinese? Oh, OK...
<SiFuh>
Chinese Whispers
<remiliascarlet>
Also, isn't it funny how all these companies who virtue signal for "diversity and inclusion" and call for straight white men to be excluded from society because of that, all happen to be run by straight white men? Except for Google (and by extension YouTube), at least they put their own words to action.
<SiFuh>
They are Ashkenazi usually
<remiliascarlet>
Another funny one is that the far left has been pushing to put Afro-Americans to power, and now that Twitter is run by an Afro-American, they're outraged about that.
<SiFuh>
From what I know is that they don't like caucasians (white people) because we made a better more comfortable world. They like Mongoloids (Asians) and Negroes (Black Africans) because they are easy to beat down and enslave.
<remiliascarlet>
Because Elon Musk originates from South Africa, and has American citizenship, therefore he counts as "Afro-American".
<zorz>
charlize theron is from south africa!!!!
<SiFuh>
So if they can erase White people by causing race wars then the only White people will be them the rulers and everyone else will be coffee coloured slaves
<SiFuh>
remiliascarlet: HAHAHA No!
<remiliascarlet>
Actually, they seem to change their stance on Mongoloids depending on what's the most convenient to them.
<zorz>
hahaa
<remiliascarlet>
Sometimes they count Asians as "white priveleage", and sometimes as "oppressed minority".
<zorz>
Afro-American....
<SiFuh>
Steve Hughes in a comedy skit asked about being an Australian "What's it like being a white man in a black man's country in the middle of Asia?"
<remiliascarlet>
There is a geographical term called "Afro-Eurasia", but that's just for geographics, not human race.
<remiliascarlet>
Going through my older files, I see I still have a Gimp file where I've put operating systems on a political compass. I put OpenBSD and CRUX both at the furthest bottom-right (so right libertarian), but seeing Tim's attitude, I'm tempted to put CRUX more up and left from OpenBSD.
<zorz>
HAHA
<remiliascarlet>
I put GNU on the furthest left in the libertarian spot, and TempleOS is so far up the authoritarian right, it's going off the compass.
<farkuhar>
remiliascarlet: how is the position of an OS determined? by the political attitudes of its userbase, or its developers?
<remiliascarlet>
A mix of all of them.
<zorz>
userbase makes the developers.
<zorz>
its like voters make the goverments
<remiliascarlet>
So CRUX is still on the right libertarian spot, just a little bit further up and left from OpenBSD.
<SiFuh>
zorz: You are living in a fantasy world
<farkuhar>
equally weighted, or do the core developers get greater weight in your calculation?
<zorz>
SiFuh: well sort of... used to be.
<remiliascarlet>
farkuhar: Technically yes, because while core developers are far fewer, they are ultimately the ones who have the final say.
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: You ever watch the series "Alone"?
<farkuhar>
SiFuh: never watched it
<SiFuh>
I would love to take part in that show.
<zorz>
the one that will do a linux installation like minimal freebsd will be the best.
<remiliascarlet>
For that reason I also put Void Linux on the far left on the libertarian spot, because while Juan RP wasn't woke, and many users aren't neither, the current devs are woke as fuck.
<remiliascarlet>
zorz: "minimal freebsd" NetBSD?
<zorz>
not so minimal... like when you install freebsd without source without ports without debug
<zorz>
a base linux, with sysvinit... and all good.
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: Basically 10 people, completely seperated from each other. With a handfull of equipment but outsurvive everyone else. No camera crews and random medical checkups. They have to survive alone and never knowing who else is still out there surviving.
<remiliascarlet>
zorz: So you're basically talking about Linux From Scratch.
<zorz>
something like that.
<remiliascarlet>
Make it then!
<zorz>
all the files with headers,,, not break dev or devel
<remiliascarlet>
OK, I decided to just remove ReactOS from that political compass, simply because I don't know enough about it to acurately put it anywhere.
<remiliascarlet>
farkuhar: I will after I'm satisfied enough about it.
<zorz>
:Pp
<farkuhar>
zorz: it's a double offender ... libtool garbage AND linux-pam garbage.
<ppetrov^>
lalalalala
<zorz>
farkuhar: indeed!
<remiliascarlet>
Ubuntu is a hard one. On one hand they like to make money, so they belong on the right. But on the other hand they also like to pander to the woke, so they belong to the left.
<zorz>
they confuse, the word review... with make a promise to review... nobody will review :P
<remiliascarlet>
I'd say, let's wait and see.
<remiliascarlet>
I doubt they will actually review this time.
<remiliascarlet>
The Canonical of today doesn't actually give a fuck about desktop users, they only care about "cloud" hosting.
<remiliascarlet>
Oh, looks like I got the right spot for it now!
<ppetrov^>
farkuhar, the guy sounds pretty pissed
<farkuhar>
ppetrov^: he's just venting the usual frustrations with autotools. You can find similar rants against the archaic GNU build system on other blogs.
<ppetrov^>
if i remove these, then checking for missing files will report these
<zorz>
SiFuh: why wsvt25 and not wsvt25m is multilinqual :Ppp
<SiFuh>
Hmm
<farkuhar>
ppetrov^: what if you just don't install them in the first place? Follow emmett1's example, and put "INSTALL ^usr/lib/.*\.la$ NO" into your pkgadd.conf. Then prtcheckmissing will not complain about them.
<zorz>
guys why do not use emmett1's venom and solve all your problems ?
<zorz>
:PPPpp
<remiliascarlet>
farkuhar: In principle, you can see the compass as such: top-left = extreme control freaks, top-right = makes money the greedy way or religious boomers, bottom-left = troons, wokies, and other "modern" religions, bottom-right = makes money the smart way, good for business, or free speech friendly.
<ppetrov^>
farkuhar, that's genius
<zorz>
SiFuh: can take the keys... and build over there.
<ppetrov^>
so, although they will be in the footprint of packages, putting that line in pkgadd.conf will prevent prtcheckmissing from complaining?
<zorz>
instead of trying to push your opinion in a core tim that has a git does not accepts push.
<farkuhar>
zorz: Venom has linux-pam, so I can imagine a few people who would disagree with your solution.
<SiFuh>
zorz: I was thinking about a PAM free CRUX core
<zorz>
in venom, you can take out pam.
<SiFuh>
zorz?
<zorz>
take out pam, and sudo and work with doas and libseat. aka seatd
<SiFuh>
You can do it in CRUX too
<SiFuh>
Actually I would strip sudo out of core anyway
<zorz>
does not push to .git.... i will go to the island, come back in octomber and pam will be there.
<SiFuh>
If I had it my way pkg-utils, perl and python will not be in core either
<SiFuh>
remiliascarlet: I want to show you this. This crap is shown on many shows in Australia and New Zealand to pander for the woke morons https://s3.amazonaws.com/i.snag.gy/5If6BK.jpg
<remiliascarlet>
Funny (but it makes sense) that there's literally no politician in the "libertarian" and "anarchist" category.
<remiliascarlet>
And "capitalist" is also completely empty.
<farkuhar>
specifically this passage from Anton's reply: "What is CRUX? ... Pkgutils? No - they are not really necessary, you can write simple scripts in shell using tar with similar functionality. Pkgfiles? Bingo! ..."
<farkuhar>
SiFuh: it would be tricky to remove python3 from core, now that many ports are built using meson. Perl might be easier to move, though.
<zorz>
every time I think of Linux I go and load this site https://www.openbsd.org/innovations.html and I say to myself FUCK LiNUX! I am not going to install linux to run all this brilliant software. As remiliascarlet says linux is for games!
<dlcusa_>
The light went on with some sleep--somewhere during the exercise the USB drive became a slow /dev/zero. Just got back from MicroCenter with a $30 USD 3-pack and will resume the exercise within a few hours (I hope).(my wife needs the car later).
<zorz>
and do not try to make linux as bsd... use bsd!
<dlcusa_>
How goes the "Per's Core CRUX" feasibility study?
<zorz>
SiFuh: tomorrow ww will do unwind session.
<zorz>
dlcusa_: I understood that Per's Core CRUX" feasibility study is wrapped in TIN-FOIL!
<dlcusa_>
"The dogs bark. The caravan moves on."
<zorz>
See you later aligator.... in a while crocodile!
<remiliascarlet>
zorz: They aren't in the music industry, they just make songs for some of their releases.
<remiliascarlet>
zorz: "and do not try to make linux as bsd..." HyperbolaBSD seems to be doing the opposite of that; fork OpenBSD and make it more like Linux.
<zorz>
no point... linux is linux, bsd is bsd.... one is to play games, the other one is to work :P
<ppetrov^>
i play games on windows
<zorz>
you see... no need for linux!
<zorz>
windows and openbsd.
<ppetrov^>
heh
<ppetrov^>
i am too old man
<ppetrov^>
i learn too slow
<ppetrov^>
and everything happens either slow or late with me
<zorz>
peter....relax, i see you are in a hurry to grow :P
<ppetrov^>
dude, i am 41
<zorz>
'83?
<ppetrov^>
it's just ageing from now on
<ppetrov^>
82
<ppetrov^>
decay and death
<zorz>
ok correct, as I say we are with the one foot in the grave :Ppp
<ppetrov^>
same expression in Bulgarian
<ppetrov^>
another one: we smell of soil already
<zorz>
ppetrov^: it was a girlfriend of mine took divorce at 40 and tells me "Who said life stops at forty" Myself: after forty are the 3 months "
<zorz>
HAHA
<ppetrov^>
heh
<zorz>
they moorn the dead 40 days 3 months
<zorz>
hahahaha
<ppetrov^>
same in Bulgaria, we are Orthodox like you
<zorz>
I know
<zorz>
who else is Orthodox... except Russian Ukranians, I think Romanians aswell
<remiliascarlet>
zorz: Windows is too complicated.
<remiliascarlet>
And uncontrollable.
<zorz>
remiliascarlet: :), not even microsoft knows what they put in there.
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: Sure, but I didn't say to remove it. I would move it to opt. And Anton doesn't have the 18 years of experience I have.
<SiFuh>
remiliascarlet: I don't think Hitler was a fascist
<ppetrov^>
zorz, I bet they are. In fact, they are probably christians since over 2000 years
<ppetrov^>
huehuehue
<remiliascarlet>
SiFuh: He wasn't, but it's not my graphic.
<farkuhar>
SiFuh: since you have 18 years of experience, how about sharing your thoughts on the feasibility of a fork called "Per's Core CRUX" (as dlcusa_ calls it)?
<remiliascarlet>
He's only "fascist" because the Ashkenazi's said so.
<remiliascarlet>
farkuhar: So a protest distro in the making?
<farkuhar>
It only takes one person to maintain such a slimmed-down fork, from what I recall of yesterday's discussion.
<SiFuh>
I have actually been thinking abou farkuhar. I wouldn't be difficult that is for sure. We just follow exactly what CRUX does and strip out the garbage. No need to update by ourselves. Wait until CRUX updates, poach the ports and tweak them. We can still use the original ports from CRUX just create a new port directory like /usr/ports/per and put his styles of CRUX ports in them
<dlcusa>
What about the project infrastructure?
<SiFuh>
As I mentioned the otherday. Mostly we tweak core. The rest of the ports are generally fine. Might need to tweak a couple of ports in opt though like cups
<dlcusa>
Would crux.nu need to be cloned?
<SiFuh>
dlcusa: No
<SiFuh>
In fact the two could coincide together
<dlcusa>
If the CRUX guys agree.
<SiFuh>
You mean a guy?
<dlcusa>
The decision-maker(s).
<SiFuh>
It's still CRUX regardless. Just make a repo
<SiFuh>
You make an ISO and send it to jaeger or ask jaeger to build it
<dlcusa>
Yes, but they control what's on crux.nu so if they're not agreeable, Per's Core needs its own URL support.
<SiFuh>
Call it CRUX-lite and have a page that explains what is missing and why it is a 'lite' version
<dlcusa>
I'm not religious about the project name.
<SiFuh>
I don't think this will be an issue because it is still CRUX. It's just a slightly different version. Like when morelenxus made the i586 version of CRUX.
<dlcusa>
I do think name's convey essential info.
<dlcusa>
s/name's/nam,es/
<SiFuh>
morelenxus/morlenxus
<dlcusa>
s/name,es/names/
serpente has joined #crux-social
<farkuhar>
It's not much of a protest if you don't fight to ensure that the CRUX name is only associated with projects that honor Per's founding ideals.
<dlcusa>
Good point.
<SiFuh>
Anyone got ideas for a name. I was saying CRUX-lite but maybe someone can get better naming ideas. Also it will mostly be core only
<dlcusa>
Hopefully core only.
<SiFuh>
dlcusa: I don't want to touch anything but core to be honest. We make the most sexy slim version of CRUX core as possible. farkuhar writes a page about it and some shit about how to modify ports to accept it and so on.
<SiFuh>
Haha farkuhar You are in it now dude
<SiFuh>
It will not be a fork but something that can compliment CRUX by attracting a different class of people
<dlcusa>
I'm concerned many ports may need to be cloned. Perhaps that can be on each user until the need for centralization becomes inescapable.
<SiFuh>
I think that is the user's responsibility and farkuhar's write up would explain that
<SiFuh>
See the original idea was to create the most raped version of CRUX possible that you could not take anything away, you can only add to it. Adding part is up to the users.
<SiFuh>
If a user has to remove something then it means it isn't following the original philosophy
<dlcusa>
Agreed. Per's Opt would await any future need.
<zorz>
SiFuh: if you do this, I am willing to uninstall debian :PPPpp
<SiFuh>
Here is a simple analogy. I want to add a lemon and a tea bag to my water. But if I don't want the lemon or the tea, how to remove it from my water?
<SiFuh>
CRUX core should be the water. Plain and pure
<zorz>
soviet tech!
<SiFuh>
Is the best!
<zorz>
and suggest on the page the libre ssl aswell.
<zorz>
and suggest on the page the libre kernel aswell.
<zorz>
kernel*
* SiFuh
is a huge fan of soviet tech and WW2 German technology
<zorz>
zeiss
<SiFuh>
Soviet is my favorite though. Germanium Crystal Diodes from the USSR were the best of the best!
* zorz
likes japan aswell they built with honor.
<SiFuh>
I also liked the Japanese Geiger-Muller Tubes from Phillips. Used a lot in the Bosnian war. I have boxes of them in Australia sent to me after the war.
<dlcusa>
I think #crux-social is not the place for this discussion any more.
<zorz>
do we have spies ?
<dlcusa>
This is open source--spies are expected and encouraged.
<SiFuh>
dlcusa: farkuhar: is a spy?
<SiFuh>
Is there a cruxbridge here?
<dlcusa>
This is public, no closed-door discussions is the goal.
<SiFuh>
It's also a place where no rules are applied. Where fellows and a lady with things in common can talk wtf they want without some big headed mother fucker telling us to shut up
<SiFuh>
zorz: fuck adidas and puma and rebok hahaha
<dlcusa>
I'm suggesting #crux-social should not be for supporting Cruc-Lite.
<zorz>
I like le coq the French!
<dlcusa>
s/Cruc/Crux/
<zorz>
name it soviet
<zorz>
soviet os
<SiFuh>
dlcusa: If we do this, it will be in #crux as well.
<zorz>
soviet distro of the linux kernel
<zorz>
HAHAHA
<SiFuh>
I can imagine the question "Are you using CRUX or CRUX-lite?" in #crux
<zorz>
SiFuh: NSA, CIA will hunt you, hide in the jungle :Ppp
<dlcusa>
Do you want to search those lists for Crux-Lite-specific discussions?
<SiFuh>
zorz: In Soviet Russia the Operating system tells the kernel what to do.
<farkuhar>
The admonishment to "shut up" carries a lot more weight when the person behind it also controls the infrastructure. You can't very well start creating Wiki pages on crux.nu pointing to this alternative core repo, and not expect a backlash from the site admin.
<zorz>
SiFuh: hahahaaha THIS IS THE MENTALITY!
<farkuhar>
Hence dlcusa's point about getting a separate infrastructure for this fork.
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: Agree, but the core is almost identical and I reckon jaeger will host the ISO if I discuss it with him.
<zorz>
I see clouds in the horizon!
<SiFuh>
Actually the install ISO most probably will be core only anyway. Couple of things like firmware and syslinux/grub might be there but I will need to think about it more anyway
<zorz>
arxhlinux has the best iso
<zorz>
arch
<SiFuh>
I'd even like libressl but that will never happen for now.
<dlcusa>
Feasibility studies, rightly done, are indispensable.
<farkuhar>
I notice that they swapped out glibc in favor of musl, but that might be too much for a CRUX-Lite fork.
<SiFuh>
Why do they need all this? They have busybox.
<SiFuh>
I built a CRUX musl two years ago
<SiFuh>
It's not 'feasible' for CRUX
<zorz>
kiss has busybox?
<zorz>
no good.
<dlcusa>
Sorry, but bbsol (sooner or later)...
<zorz>
and you need to add dash together with bash to load fast the init scripts.
<SiFuh>
I want CRUX. I am happy with it. But without the shit that is not needed. That is why we should follow CRUX perfectly but without the shit.
<zorz>
dash should be in core
<SiFuh>
zorz: NO! Stop adding shit
<SiFuh>
We are taking shit away dude
<SiFuh>
musl is cool. But the problem is we'd need to rewrite most of the ports
<SiFuh>
So not feasible
<zorz>
ok,,, I say an idea... dont put it.
<SiFuh>
zorz: You are adding stuff, we are taking stuff away.
<zorz>
i am telling you this addition is nothing.... you run fast shell scripts. now you run it
<SiFuh>
The creation of CRUX-lite is because developers are adding shit
<SiFuh>
Go join CRUX
<zorz>
who cares.... no Linux for me.
<SiFuh>
We use CRUX because we like CRUX
<zorz>
ok
<zorz>
okay
<zorz>
:P
<SiFuh>
Per's ideology is what we want
<zorz>
basically crux - musl static cannot say no
<SiFuh>
It's not a fork of CRUX it is just a slimmed downed version of CRUX and closer to what Per wanted
<zorz>
2 install media... one glibc one musl
<farkuhar>
Someone who was involved from the beginning should do the write-up of Per's ideology. I'm too newbie to write confidently on such matters, despite having read deeply into the mailing list archives.
<zorz>
SiFuh: don worry do the slim down kernel and i will add the dash shell manually :P
<serpente>
Bruce Lee: 'It's not the daily increase but daily decrease. Hack away at the unessential.'
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: I give you a clue. Disk space was expensive so he wanted a system that didn't use much disk space. He went through and uninstalled all the uneeded shit and gained more disk space because of it. The idea grew and he created CRUX
<SiFuh>
The idea is very much like a sculpture - not to add on, but hack away the unessential so that the truth will be revealed unobstructed -- Bruce Lee
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: He chose BSD style scripting because he liked the BSDs but wanted the flexibility of Linux that BSD was missing.
<SiFuh>
Man pages were important and howtos, readmes and documentations were garbage
<SiFuh>
I remember he wanted to install dependencies for compilation but remove then when compilation was finished. Arch Linux does that. 'makedepends'
<SiFuh>
Simplicity also means that we want a light system, stripped from unnecessary files and features, such as national language support. <--- YES
<farkuhar>
The current wiki page has "Recent technologies and software" as bullet point 2. I don't know if that was added after jw's initial draft, or if it was there from the beginning.
<SiFuh>
Well it is clearly obvious that they are no longer following that principal
<farkuhar>
Which principle? "not a testbed for experimental technologies"?
<SiFuh>
Simplicity also means that we want a light system, stripped from unnecessary files and features, such as national language support. <--- This one
<SiFuh>
linux-PAM isn't neccessary but now we have it
<SiFuh>
My wife likes the idea of editing pkgmk.conf and eddint WANT_PAM = YES
<farkuhar>
jaeger would describe such a line as "system-wide USE flags", right?
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: If we had OpenBSD style ports we could have the same Pkgfile but with flavours. PAM or no PAM.
<SiFuh>
Yes, in OpenBSD I can edit mk.conf and set no_x11 and voila. All my ports installed will automatically be no_x11 ports
<SiFuh>
Per was following closely to the BSDs but he missed out on the super cool advancements BSD went through
<SiFuh>
When he did CRUX ports it was kind of sucky but actually better than BSD
<SiFuh>
Now it is really good and BSD is even better
<SiFuh>
Romster has done the best work, I have ever seen in CRUX since 2001
<SiFuh>
Well he wasn't around then but he advanced it better than those days
<farkuhar>
OpenBSD is a complete operating system, whereas Linux distributions (including CRUX) just throw together a bunch of unrelated software and call it a repo. To have that much coordination of system-wide USE flags across all the software we grab from upstream, we'd need a massive overhaul of the Pkgfiles, almost along the lines of what heidi proposed in 2006.
<SiFuh>
Not really true
<SiFuh>
OpenBSD is a complete OS yes, but it's port system is just throw together a bunch of unrelated software and called a repo but compiled against each other
<SiFuh>
Go into #OpenBSD and say "I just installed shotcut and my OpenBSD machine running GENERIC keeps crashing" It will be silent or people will be in shock.
<SiFuh>
remiliascarlet: everytime I see a new stand-up comedian on torrent I download their show. And ... Hmmm. They ain't funny anymore
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: Day 5 and CRUX finally finished sysup
<farkuhar>
Anton reacted harshly to heidi's proposal because the resulting Pkgfiles would not be as simple as possible. Hack away at the unessential, and you get rigid Pkgfiles, deterministic builds. But with such rigidity comes a cost: if you want a different "flavor", you can't just edit a centralized mk.conf, you have to deactivate a repo and replace it with a near-clone that has the necessary patches.
<SiFuh>
Well, 5 days is a long time, so I guess I need to ports -u and sysup again...
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: I don't agree farkuhar
<SiFuh>
Flavours can easily be introduced into a Pkgfile
<SiFuh>
We know it can be cause the BSDs have been doing it since forever
<zorz>
did Anton was virgin at the time ? ::Pp
<SiFuh>
zorz: Are you sure you are like 45 years old?
<zorz>
depends on the mood :)
<farkuhar>
Gentoo has been doing it since forever also, but they acknowledge their debt to the BSDs. The first Gentoo user I met in person was in 2002, and although I was impressed, my computer was too underpowered to even consider a source-based distro at the time.
<SiFuh>
Aren't you 46 in like 8 days?
<zorz>
yes
<SiFuh>
So are we having a party for you 1 year closer to death day zorz?
<zorz>
yes
<SiFuh>
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA "When you give a set of keys to someone, you must do an insane song and dance. They will think you are crazy. But when you ask for the keys and they say you never gave it to them, you can say 'Remember that insane song and dance?'. Oh yeah, they will remember"
<zorz>
:P
<SiFuh>
Alright, everyone compile a list of shit we don't need in core
<zorz>
SiFuh: enlighten me plz.......
<zorz>
you do all this things... core slim againt musl and at the end you will run obsd as your daily driver ?
<zorz>
::Ppp I do not understand ....
<SiFuh>
I ain't doing musl
<SiFuh>
I am doing CRUX
<zorz>
just CRUX
<SiFuh>
With a slimmed down core.
<SiFuh>
Take away. NO adding!
<zorz>
ok.... I understand. basically core is like 80 packages... easy for one. Give it to one and finish with it.
<SiFuh>
remiliascarlet: I am anti-government and anti-law. Rules are acceptable but not human laws.
<SiFuh>
So I should be far bottom right corner
<zorz>
and core, should be on stable packages new... he should control that as well.
<SiFuh>
Core is 80 packages?
<zorz>
noa is 100 something
<zorz>
now
<SiFuh>
124!!!!!!!!!!
<zorz>
debian is 118 if not mistaken
<SiFuh>
Damn, I pissed off. 124 is insane
<zorz>
it can be worst archlinux 236 HAHAHA
<SiFuh>
Arch sucks though
<zorz>
ARCH IS THE WORST....how many times shall I say that.
<zorz>
personal opinion :P
<SiFuh>
zorz: 10 times and in #archlinux. I want to see
<zorz>
no man... ok no ip shown now... but no good, they will come over here after.
<SiFuh>
Chicken
<zorz>
ccococococo
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: I went through the logs and saw no record of stenur ever being banned or Guest51. I am guessing you might have misinterpreted/misread the meaning of the workd 'ban'. From what I see and read he is banned from core/contrib/opt/xorg but IRC.
<SiFuh>
And to be honest, Guest51 and his/her words didn't feel like stenur. But that is something else.
<SiFuh>
Maybe the rare use of 'ciao'?
<SiFuh>
zorz: They are still discussing May 1 for jungle
<SiFuh>
I know you can't come but I want to tease you hahaha
<SiFuh>
remiliascarlet: Maybe also can't come. We will see
<SiFuh>
I'd like Jun to join us too but I think her truck is not going to be ready in time.
<SiFuh>
She has another truck but it isn't for offroad use. It's those fancy fake 4x4s
<SiFuh>
It doesn't matter if you can put petrol in your car. The idea of knowing how to is more important.
<SiFuh>
It doesn't matter if you can change your tire. The idea is know that you could.
<zorz>
we speak for flat tyres.... and if we ask how many bars should be the pressure when you fill nobody can tell you 32-33
<zorz>
fuck it man.
<zorz>
lets read news week
<SiFuh>
Yeah it is 28 to 35
<SiFuh>
The average is 32
<zorz>
yes
<SiFuh>
But I drive a Jungle truck so you probably wouldn't know the real PSI
<SiFuh>
zorz: How to know what PSI you should use?
<SiFuh>
zorz: Why so silent son?
<farkuhar>
SiFuh: git is in the KISS core because their package manager recognizes git sources. Similarly, CRUX has python3 in core because our package manager needs to be able to compile using meson.
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: Yes it shouldn't be in core then
<SiFuh>
Same as grub
<SiFuh>
And wtf is pigz?
<SiFuh>
KISS can be way smaller.
<SiFuh>
I doubt we can get as slim as KISS but I know we can remove a lot of stuff
<farkuhar>
pigz is a slimmed-down version of gzip, I believe. And the key word that made me associate Guest51 with stenur was "psychopath". Nobody else uses that nickname for beerman.
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: I did, but no in #crux.
<SiFuh>
I don't do name calling in general on IRC. Except monon, idiot, twat, retard and dick
<SiFuh>
But they are really low level words
<SiFuh>
There are exceptions like the use of 'cunt'
<farkuhar>
"terrorist" is another name that stenur used to toss around when he wanted to be disparaging of the core team.
<SiFuh>
Heh
<SiFuh>
Who was the terrorist?
<farkuhar>
probably also beerman
<SiFuh>
Funny how beerman is the centre of all insults
<SiFuh>
As I said above, that I am sure you read. I reckon the CRUX team absorbed beerman because he actually did the work and they let him be the dick he is to everyone else.
<SiFuh>
paraphrasing myself.
<SiFuh>
Beerman went from the coolest dude in CRUX to the biggest dick the moment he was given core access. Like he was given the thrown of god.
<SiFuh>
Then he rubs in how useless everyone is because they contribute nothing and how great he is because he is the god given gift to CRUX.
<SiFuh>
I always laugh at that
<SiFuh>
And when something fails. It isn't how great he is anymore, it is now how much you do nothing and how much hard work and how busy he is trying to keep up.
<SiFuh>
I have a brother like that. He has been to prison a few times now. My own mother disowned him. Just a dick with an ego. God's gift to world.
<SiFuh>
I was in prison in Thailand once, 28 days, but I won the court case. I don't care they stole the 28 days from my life. I had a fantastic time.
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: Question, bad form to talk about someone negatively when they are not here or bad form to talk through a bot to abuse someone?
<SiFuh>
zorz: If remiliascarlet does decide to come here, I bet everyone will call her remiliascarlet or rem/remmie for short
<SiFuh>
I got called Simon the otherday. Everyone was fucking laughing so hard.
<SiFuh>
Who the fuck is Simon?
<SiFuh>
I could here the guys daughter "Ayah, nama SiFuh tidah Simon"
<SiFuh>
tidah/tidak
<farkuhar>
SiFuh: I'm not sure how faithfully the norms of real-life conversation translate to the online context. In real life it is frowned upon to badmouth people behind their back. But an online chat room whose messages are logged and publicly accessible? Not the same situation, so different standards might apply.
<farkuhar>
HAHAHAHA, take that, you libtool garbage!
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: No sure, I requested the logger at certain users request. But I am not ashamed not hiding shit. My words are my words
<SiFuh>
Like I said, the feud began when I stood up for newbie wanting to use CRUX and beerman insulted the living and dead shit out of him and I called beerman a dick
<SiFuh>
Welcome to CRUX! Beerman is here to fucking bash the shit out of you verbally and then tell you to fuck off"
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: I added that think to pkgmk.conf that you suggested
<SiFuh>
think/thing
<farkuhar>
On the subject of talking through a bot ... I can't remember the last time someone pushed a git commit with a passive-aggressive message, which cruxbot then faithfully reported verbatim.
<SiFuh>
Cool feature
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: HAHA
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: I don't hate beerman. I like who he was, I just don't who he became.
<SiFuh>
He taught me a lot of stuff. I will never deny it. I have honor.
<SiFuh>
He has none, from what I see.
<SiFuh>
Look at lavaball and me. How many times we get into huge fights. We still talk like humans.
<farkuhar>
some of the recent util-linux commits can be read as subtle criticisms of the frustrations we've had with the hasty upstream release, but that's different from writing a git commit message that badmouths another CRUX maintainer.
<SiFuh>
I called beerman a dick for insulting a newbie and he went full pussy bitch crybaby I hate you mode. I apologized and he ignored me and left #crux. Now he talks to me through a bot.
<SiFuh>
I think stenur's frustration was that he created something beautiful and beerman basically told him to fuck off.
<SiFuh>
I remember him working hard on it and if I remember correctly beerman hated stenur because of his broken English
<SiFuh>
Then one day beerman found a lazy port mod that stenur did and he insulted the shit out of stenur
<farkuhar>
SiFuh: in #crux he talks to everyone through his bot; that has nothing to do with you. #crux-devel is the only channel he bothers joining directly through IRC.
<SiFuh>
Then stenur modified a port that wasn't his but was maintained by CRUX and beerman tore stenur to shreds.
<SiFuh>
Then stenur introduced his new idea and was ignore, and ignored and ignored and then stenur just snapped
<SiFuh>
I think it is beerman's shield, a force feild protecting him. So he doesn't get hurt. hahaha
<farkuhar>
Did the Dune remake explain how force fields are related to the choice of melee weapons for hand-to-hand combat? I don't think the David Lynch version from the 1980's made that connection so explicitly.
<SiFuh>
Stenur is a funny guy, but as many of the mistakes he made, he was a very kind soul.
<SiFuh>
I invited him here. But he said no. He has a life outside of CRUX now
<SiFuh>
He was actually the first I invited when I made #crux-social
<farkuhar>
Remind me again, what did stenur create that got such a dismissive reaction from beerman?
<SiFuh>
Let's have a look. I think it was scripting for init or something
<SiFuh>
21:17:39 [farkuhar> i admit that the workaround for a slimmed-down iso that omits x11 and firefox is a one-time fix, whereas adapting to a change in prt-get argument parsing requires either a wrapper script (like stenur's port-up.sh) or retraining one's muscle memory when typing prt-get commands.
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: Was it this?
<farkuhar>
SiFuh: no, but I still have his port-up.sh saved somewhere.
<SiFuh>
Hmm, I check a little deeper. I remember it was something
<SiFuh>
In fact, it was in one of the messages he sent on the mailing list
<SiFuh>
21:13:27 [stenur> btw my port-up.sh script, i think it resolves things itself; it is mature now and in use ever since: http://ix.io/457Y
<SiFuh>
Has to be this script
<SiFuh>
He talked about it for months
<SiFuh>
To the point beerman was telling him to shut up
<farkuhar>
I might want to mention in in the revdep man-page, then. I seem to recall that stenur was motivated to write this script because updates like mesa would necessitate a rebuild of certain packages, but revdep did not detect the breakage.
<farkuhar>
s/in/it/
<SiFuh>
Hold on, I ask stenur
<SiFuh>
Okay done, he will message me later
<ppetrov^>
SiFuh, why not invite stenur here?
<SiFuh>
ppetrov^: I like him
<SiFuh>
And I invited him the very first day
<ppetrov^>
I also like him, he gave some advice on compiling static
<SiFuh>
I invinted him before anyone else. Sorry lavaball :-P You were not top of the list
<SiFuh>
ppetrov^: I consider stenur a friend. I have know him for a while and even though he is a shit talker, he is a top bloke.
<SiFuh>
I was saddened so much when beerman pushed the raping of his CRUX maintainership.
<SiFuh>
Also I didn't find nice that beerman relied on another user to kick stenur. That was the ultimate insult
<SiFuh>
The user who kicked stenur is also a friend and I wasn't happy when it happened
ivandi has joined #crux-social
<SiFuh>
Was it zorz who said CRUX is now a drama series?
<SiFuh>
It has been since around 2018
<SiFuh>
ppetrov^: We are all friends, it doesn't matter if someone insults another, we don't hate each other, we just have our ways. But we are here because of one common goal. Make the best damned Linux OS possible!
<farkuhar>
2018 is about when therealfun gave up trying to improve CRUX. The changes he was pushing proved too innovative for the core team.
<SiFuh>
#crux had this. But is changed around 2018.
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: We should call him back
<SiFuh>
I think we should do this
<farkuhar>
he did manage to convince them to adopt a few good ideas, like pkgmk supporting parallel compression.
<SiFuh>
Yeah and it took me 18 years to convince them to fix their broken init system
<SiFuh>
Let's bring him back
<farkuhar>
his initial draft of a Pkgfile man-page is what I used for the Pkgfile.5 that is now distributed with pkgutils.
<SiFuh>
Are you able to contact him?
<farkuhar>
no, he has a private Gitlab profile.
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: We could have a break away pkgutil that supports git and aria and whatever
<SiFuh>
Just no core related
<SiFuh>
We need to find a daily core compiler
<farkuhar>
back when the Flyspray instance was still active, you might be able to get his attention by replying to one of the bug reports he opened. Now that option is no longer available.
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: If we do this, we need a security protocol in place so any beerman type people come in we can strip them of their priviledge
<SiFuh>
Make sure the new CRUX core is what the users want and not what some developer demands you use
<farkuhar>
Per wanted to install dependencies for compilation but remove them when compilation was finished? Did he envision a special syntax in the "Depends on" line to make that happen automatically, or was this before we had tools that cared about the "Depends on" line?
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: Yes. He did, but it never happened
<farkuhar>
Take a look at how KISS Linux structures the dependencies file in each port directory. The dependencies are listed one line at a time, with an annotation "make" if the dependency is only needed for compilation.
<SiFuh>
What he wanted is to compile a program, if it depended on something for making, but not when running it would not be install
<SiFuh>
It wasn't a linux thing then but it was a concept
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: I don't want to do KISS, I want to stay with CRUX
<SiFuh>
Arch has a similar setup
<SiFuh>
If we do this, then we are rewriting pkgutils
<SiFuh>
That means we will be a fork unless CRUX adopts what we do
<SiFuh>
I don't want to be a fork, I want to be a 'compatible' variation
<SiFuh>
But as I said, It's up the users. Fork it the we shall fork
<farkuhar>
therealfun lamented how unwieldy the Arch PKGBUILD had become, after starting out rather lean like the CRUX Pkgfile. Introducing more syntax to distinguish buildtime versus runtime dependencies is harder when you're confined to using bash arrays, and not a separate file that can be handled by awk, grep, cut, ...
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: How deep do you want to go with the deviation?
<SiFuh>
Do you want patch, mod, better CRUX?
<farkuhar>
SiFuh: I prefer therealfun's approach circa 2018. Push for the official CRUX to adopt some much-needed changes, and if they break compatibility with an older version of pkgutils, schedule the rollout for when the next ISO is released.
<SiFuh>
As I said, I don't want to fork it, but if you all want to fork it, then sure, I can't complain.
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: Then let's find him
<SiFuh>
I think this needs to belong to the users and not the developers
<SiFuh>
A 100% use oppinionated distro
<farkuhar>
just.thereal.fun at gmail dot com ... that might work; you should try it.
<SiFuh>
I shall
<SiFuh>
Done
<SiFuh>
I told him to come here and discuss
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: Email failed
<SiFuh>
Diagnostic-Code: smtp; 550-5.1.1 The email account that you tried to reach does not exist. Please try
<farkuhar>
SiFuh: sorry, there might have been some digits in the username that I couldn't remember off the top of my head.
<SiFuh>
Heh ass
<SiFuh>
Sending emails about CRUX to randomites
<SiFuh>
I sent one to therealfun@gmail.com and it hasn't returned
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: Also who will be the host for the new CRUX core?
<farkuhar>
I know therealfun replied to one of his Flyspray tasks after I left a comment, but I can't seem to find his reply in my email archive (hence the failure to pull up working contact info for him).
<SiFuh>
Well it seems we are going to fork a core and if so, therealfun is important
<SiFuh>
So we need to hunt him down
<SiFuh>
remiliascarlet: Pull out your hacking skills and go find our man!
<farkuhar>
As a fellow Gitlab user, you don't have special privileges to see inside a profile that's been marked private?
<SiFuh>
Nope
<SiFuh>
Private means.... Private
<SiFuh>
I logged in already
<SiFuh>
2 As a fellow Gitlab user <-- Has two meanings
<SiFuh>
Why is there a 2 there? Hmmm
<SiFuh>
It mostly means you are a fellow gitlab user. But rarely means I am the fellow gitlab user
<farkuhar>
I meant you and therealfun are the two known users of Gitlab (and ppetrov^, but he's gone to sleep).
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: your breathing made ppetrov^ tired. HAHAHA
<SiFuh>
Yeah I understood, I read it a few times
<SiFuh>
If we are going to fork which I am against then we need him
<SiFuh>
If you all decide to fork then I am standing with you
<SiFuh>
A forked core will be much harder to maintain
<SiFuh>
And you probably need a full system re-write and contrib/opt/xorg
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: So what is you plan with CRUX core?
<farkuhar>
SiFuh: imagine what it would have been like if the Internet existed back when Christendom divided into East and West. Both sides would claim to represent faithful continuity of the founder's vision, but only one of them would get to keep using the domain name and infrastructure (christus.org?)
<SiFuh>
Hmm did you ever read about alternate history>
<SiFuh>
100% understand and this particular alternate history I am not sure I buy into that theory
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: Christian or god fearing if you don't mind me asking?
<farkuhar>
raised Christian, yes
<SiFuh>
And still or not?
<farkuhar>
like doubting Thomas, for the most part
<SiFuh>
Heh
<SiFuh>
I reckon Stenur will come back to us
<SiFuh>
I liked stenur a lot. He was very cool in his stenur ways