Werner changed the topic of #armbian to: armbian - Linux for ARM development boards | www.armbian.com | Github: github.com/armbian | Commits: #armbian-commits | Developer talk: #armbian-devel | Forum/Twitter feed: #armbian-rss | Type 'help' for help | Logs: -> irc.armbian.com
<Armbian-Discord>
<lanefu> Shame
<Armbian-Discord>
<lanefu> Jk
<Armbian-Discord>
<RichNeese> shurly you gist
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<Armbian-Discord>
<djaye> well nvm it's better than before but it's still shit
<Armbian-Discord>
<djaye> guess i will need to buy a new arm box
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<[TheBug]>
djaye: how are you cooling it?
<[TheBug]>
if it doesn't have a heatsink and fan, add one
<[TheBug]>
usually top two issues with stability are heat and power
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> Si
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<stipa>
and shitty drivers
<Armbian-Discord>
<djaye> i'm not cooling it but it doesn't seem to overheat
<Armbian-Discord>
<djaye> the other reason might be power, since it was a tablet board and the battery is no longer connected, I just soldered the charger to the charging port lol
<Armbian-Discord>
<djaye> maybe i should supply the voltage to battery pins instead
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<[TheBug]>
<djaye> i'm not cooling it but it doesn't seem to overheat --- LOL your silly, if you dont' have a heatsink AT MINIMUM and usually I would suggest a fan you can't say "It doesn't seem to overheat"
<[TheBug]>
lol
<[TheBug]>
and fans more for memory so you have passiv air flow near chips
<[TheBug]>
if you just bought some random tvbox and think its gonna have sufficient cooling to run as a linux box your wrong
<[TheBug]>
as mentioned before a lot of those live in throttleland and Android deals better with this
<[TheBug]>
you start running linux and put load on it, it won't handle that without proper cooling
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<stipa>
djaye there's a tv box part of the forum if you're not aware of it
<stipa>
idk what's going on there or where it is but it's the best source of info
<stipa>
but judging by the conversations over here about tv boxes it's popular the notion of Armbian running on some of them
<stipa>
all i know is that none of them can run DE for now, maybe some can run in CLI, dunno
<[TheBug]>
H3 based boxes if DRAM is tuned and proper cooling is used can run DE just fine
<[TheBug]>
but there are a lot of other which are more hacky which vary from using very old customer kernels to hacked up android kernels to run Linux
<[TheBug]>
the sad part is that the companies making tv boxes do the very minimum to ensure it can work as the product they designed and in a lot of cases it running at 1/4 the speed is enough for them to say it works. So a lot of them have slow memory or mismatched memory and use special uboots which do memory training at boot to determine what can be used because of how poor trimings are on memory,
<[TheBug]>
because if you are not going to cool it correctly to begin with, why actually use high clock memory
<[TheBug]>
then you try to use linux and set a 'expected' closk but the memory being used or SoC being used is binned in such a way that it may not be able to reach those potentials
<[TheBug]>
TL;DR: if your lucky you cane find some stable settings under the correct cooling and config but it will take some actual work to get to that point
<[TheBug]>
Good example of this would be if you go get Android 7 SDK from Xunglong for H3 and you compile it and try to run it
<[TheBug]>
it will work
<[TheBug]>
but it has no ability to control CPU via dvfs
<[TheBug]>
so you end up with a 100% of the time fully upclocked SoC and memory and if you don't put cooling on it
<[TheBug]>
you won't have a SoC for long cause it will become hot enough to cook on
<[TheBug]>
etc
* [TheBug]
/rant
<stipa>
[TheBug]: seems like you're the only guy who could hack it
<stipa>
i suggest djaye starting a thread on the forum
<stipa>
seems like you're going to repeat that many times
<stipa>
or simply write a book about it
<stipa>
at least how you hacked a tv box before, at least they'll have some kind of an ideology to tinker about
<Armbian-Discord>
<djaye> my box is quite old (it's a rk3066 soc) and is not supported by armbian at all so I don't think it makes sense to create a forum thread about it
<Armbian-Discord>
<djaye> everyone has already moved on to newer chips
<stipa>
yeah, quitting is for winners
<Armbian-Discord>
<djaye> I just tried tinkering with it since I took it off my old tablet and just wanted to run linux on it. The latest kernel I can run on it is 3.0.36+ and the only recent distro capable on running on such an old kernel version is Alpine Linux, since it uses musl instead of glibc (which crashes with Kernel too old fatal error). I got wired networking and stuff, but I can't even build a npm or python package because the whole machine
<Armbian-Discord>
crashes. It's probably because of memory. I restored stock rom memory settings and it did help a bit but still not enough.
<Armbian-Discord>
<djaye> I just don't want to waste more time on it
<stipa>
no one does, that's why the world is shit
<stipa>
but
<stipa>
starting a thread wouldn't hurt anyone
<stipa>
maybe just Werner
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<Werner>
As long as it is in the right place... dont expect much though
<[TheBug]>
looks like need some crazy adapters for PCIE though
<[TheBug]>
of course it would need a linux kernel and all they give is likely some hacky android kernel
<[TheBug]>
eww
<Xogium>
that is very typical
<[TheBug]>
its actually a bit intersting to me that they don't just make a Linux SDK when they develope this stuff and sell it as a SBC or Chromebook or something at the same time -- I assume it has to do with BOM but really if your able to produce in more bulk you would think that would offset it a bit more
<[TheBug]>
and make it semi-realistic to do
<[TheBug]>
but of course they only want the closed cell phone market so they can mark it up 900%
<[TheBug]>
Heck I would even take a half decent 2018 phone chipset as an SBC anymore, 8 core big.LITTLE with between 3-6GB memory and usually 32-64GB eMMC on board..
<Xogium>
heh
<[TheBug]>
You can get LG v35's for about $120 in perfect condition that come with an 6" OLED screen, 6GB memory, 32GB emmc , 8 core SoC USB 3.0 + MHL (can dock to hdmi screen and use it kind of like dex)
<archetech>
the question is if Ihave an odroid N2+ what else would beat it these days
<[TheBug]>
if I could unlock bootloader and load linux pretty much any phone 2018 or newer? because it would be much cheaper and come with speakers, screen, cameras, etc
<archetech>
6 cores great gpu usb3 hdd cant think of anything
<Xogium>
maybe one of those rockpi 4c
<[TheBug]>
My LG V35 I paid $120 used would crush that most likely
<[TheBug]>
8 2.0Ghz cores
<[TheBug]>
er sorry 4 2.0Ghz with 4 1.8Ghz or something
<[TheBug]>
also you have built in UPS with battery
<Xogium>
I believe n2+ is 2.5 ghz max ?
<archetech>
2.4
<Xogium>
I forget
<Xogium>
ah yeah
<[TheBug]>
yeah but by time your into n2 the cost offset is there
<[TheBug]>
I am saying if you can unlock bootloader and load linux on those phones for the price pretty much all would beat n2 for price
<Xogium>
not really, the n2+ itself is like what ? 80 usd ?
<[TheBug]>
well unless your buying some fancy 888 or something brand new I guess
<archetech>
but thats not feasible
<[TheBug]>
80+ shipping + power supply + emmc +
<steev>
[TheBug]: one thing qualcomm has never done, is lowered their price to try to target the lower end
<archetech>
take n2 over pinephone all day
<[TheBug]>
yeah I don't know if I per se would need them to lower price, more so just unlock the boatloaders and give us a Linux kernel for older devices
<Xogium>
archetech: ah, definitely
<[TheBug]>
You can get phones for pennies on the dollar now is my point
<archetech>
n2 been out 3 yrs I think that says how bad the pace of improvemnt is
<Xogium>
that pinephone was really nowhere near impressive. I wouldn't pay 150 usd for such a phone
<[TheBug]>
Actually the phone I have most hope for for that to be true is
<[TheBug]>
Terracube 2e
<[TheBug]>
they already unlocked bootloader for customers
<Xogium>
but the worst so called libre phone of all times is the librem5
<[TheBug]>
and they say they will soon release a Linux kernel for it as well
<[TheBug]>
but its a Mediatek device
<Xogium>
they sell the europe version for 500 euros I believe. That is already outrageously high. But, just for the US version, they somehow increased the cost to over $1000
<[TheBug]>
still 8 core, 4Gb ram 64GB emmc + sdcard
<Xogium>
it has nothing special, its just for US
<[TheBug]>
they sold the handsets for $100 up front in the indiegogo
<[TheBug]>
you can still get them from 120-150$
<[TheBug]>
on ebay and such
<[TheBug]>
anyways I digress
<stipa>
yeah, i could benefit from a new phone
<stipa>
i'm afraid to buy anything android
<stipa>
it's clustrophobic
<stipa>
like you have a linux that can't do shit
<[TheBug]>
well if you were in US I would tell you go look at either Google PIxel 3XL, Onplus 6T or LG v30/v35 they are all currently in the $100-130 range for a used in 'good to great' condition on ebay and have OLED screens, decent SoC, memorys, storage etc
<[TheBug]>
I have the LG v35 and been loving it
<[TheBug]>
also LG includes the ability to use a $12 MHL cable and hook it to screen
<[TheBug]>
and it will output 4k video to screen
<[TheBug]>
and operate in desktop mode
<[TheBug]>
kinda like samsung dex
<archetech>
so a phone as a linux SBC? I thought of that but the cost vs perf is not there
<archetech>
vs n2
<[TheBug]>
you can choose to mirror or literally use it as a seperate screen.. of course to really get the desktop experience you need bluetooth keyboard / mouse though
<archetech>
plus all the hassle of rooting it properly
<[TheBug]>
archetech: if Qualcom would offer bootloader unlock and Linux Kernels for their chips that would change up quickly I think, as mentioned the 2018 8 core SoC phones are now in the $100-$130 range in US on ebay
<[TheBug]>
There are some phone companies that do offer similar but it is limited
<archetech>
do it and show us then
<archetech>
running a 5.13 kern
<stipa>
5.14 !!!
<Armbian-Discord>
<lanefu> 2.6
<[TheBug]>
one I mentioned also was Terracube 2e, but as its an older Mediatek SoC it's not quite as attractive, but does mean when the phone ends it's life as a phone it will easily have another use
<archetech>
then ya need linux pkgs/blobs for the modem
<archetech>
thats usually where idea falls apart
<Armbian-Discord>
<lanefu> speaking of that nonsense.. what's like the sanest USB device for 4G interwebs for a linux device in the US
<stipa>
something from huawei
<stipa>
that's what i figured from the research
<stipa>
about what usb 4g modems work best on linux
<stipa>
lanefu: but see that "ublox" brand of 4G chip, i think they're on github, the drivers
<nekomancer[m]>
evening
<[TheBug]>
lanefu: when it comes to that stuff the biggest thing is reviewing the bands it supports as they vary a lot in different locations , that device just seems to be some type of adapter for a pcie USB card, so that is still 100% up to the card you buy and put in it
<[TheBug]>
all that device you outlined does is expose the pcie-usb card via a regular USB plug
<archetech>
I got a moto g xt1625 2017 rooted but nobody has got plasma5 working yet
<archetech>
nexus 5 works but its old
<Armbian-Discord>
<lanefu> Sierra Wireless MC7455 is supposed to work wel with that USB enclosure
<Armbian-Discord>
<lanefu> but seems kinda $$
<Armbian-Discord>
<lanefu> i mean really i'd be happy with a device that just did wired ethernet handoff
<[TheBug]>
lanefu: the way I have always done this on the cheap, even here at home for back-up interenet, is I get an old android phone, atm I use my Nokia 6.1 for this but I sometimes switch out, but I set it to hotspot and then have a $20 wavelink wifi repeater device that has a wan and a lan port on the bottom, you can link it to the hotspot and then provide wired network out of the wavelink device,
<[TheBug]>
not exactly sexy and compact but it works pretty well. Even better I can switch phones / sims I am using simply by starting the hotspot under the same SSID and the wavelink device reconnects automatically
<[TheBug]>
this way if Comcast dies I simply switch over the WAN cable in the router and back in business
<[TheBug]>
and if I need here in my office I can direct connect to the wifi on the repeater as soon as it happens
<[TheBug]>
and have access that way in the interim
<stipa>
lanefu: forget ublox, not much info about linux drivers, practically none
<stipa>
[TheBug]: yeah, the phone has to be near the whatever connects to it
<stipa>
since phones suck in wifi signal
<[TheBug]>
yeah but thats not a problem for me lol
<stipa>
but only as modem is oke
<[TheBug]>
it stays in same room
<stipa>
right
<[TheBug]>
actually I will usually move phone over by window for a little better signal
<[TheBug]>
but generally I can even have it sit here on my desk and work
<[TheBug]>
and I don't evenm have that great signal here to AT&T
<[TheBug]>
only get like 1-2M/sec up / down
<[TheBug]>
cause of where I am is far from all towers
<[TheBug]>
I can't even get T-Mobile out here
<[TheBug]>
Verizon I think I can get but they charge an arm and a leg for any reasonable amount of bandwidth
<[TheBug]>
and it isn't much better than AT&T if I recall
<stipa>
does the directional antenna help ?
<[TheBug]>
I mean if I go about .5 miles down the road I will get better signal I just happen to be quite remote here where I am on top of the mountain
<[TheBug]>
most cell towers are lower than my elevation which doesn't help
<stipa>
i see
<[TheBug]>
but yes if I were to use some type of omnidirectional antenna for it I am sure it would improve
<[TheBug]>
assuming I placed it on the outside of the house
<stipa>
maybe it would, maybe it wouldn't, maybe the tower can't send signal to you
<stipa>
strong signal*
<[TheBug]>
however, tbh I would be more concered with going over my data limit than I would be about the slower connectivity
<[TheBug]>
the faster it is the more data you can use up in a short period, lol
<[TheBug]>
I got a few plans but the largest is still only 8GB atm
<stipa>
yeah, it's hard to resist to speed
<[TheBug]>
and if you get 'unlimited' gere on AT&T this is only 22GB
<[TheBug]>
here*
<[TheBug]>
then it goes to 3-5kb/sec
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<[TheBug]>
which functionally means unusable
<Armbian-Discord>
<lanefu> ATT lol. I'm in verizon country
<[TheBug]>
and I am sure you are paying a premium for it
<[TheBug]>
I rpobably am paying 50% less than you a year ;p
<Armbian-Discord>
<lanefu> althpugh probably gonna try ting wireless for this particular project
<Armbian-Discord>
<lanefu> wife has corporate discount, but I yeah i mean I pay cuz i want my fucking phone to work when i need it most
<[TheBug]>
my suggestion -- RedPocket go on ebay and get the year long deals you can get 8-22Gb sims for a lot cheaper on yearly with AT&T
<[TheBug]>
either that or look for H20 wireless sim card deals, also AT&T but you can find like 2Gb per month sims for $40 for 4 months for example
<[TheBug]>
usually intro for H20 though
<[TheBug]>
but there is nothing to stop you buying more than one sim and switching it every 4 months as the plans don't expire
<[TheBug]>
if its for data the phone number won't matter
<stipa>
seems like starlink is the best option overthere
<stipa>
and cheapest
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<[TheBug]>
hmm yes and no based on what I have seen
<[TheBug]>
pretty good deal for the amount of data you get I would say
<stipa>
starlink is like 99$ unlimited
<[TheBug]>
+500$
<stipa>
and here 100$ 100GB
<stipa>
500$ ?
<[TheBug]>
well
<[TheBug]>
if you a ganster enough
<[TheBug]>
you can get some AT&T old grandfathered data only sims for I think something like $25 per month for unlimited data
<[TheBug]>
but there is hoops and shit to jump through for that
<[TheBug]>
and you actually get QoSed more on those I understand
<[TheBug]>
Starlink you have to buy the hardware
<[TheBug]>
and I am sure there is some type of up front commitment as well
<[TheBug]>
so your in $600 for your first month at least
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<[TheBug]>
and its not available everywhere
<stipa>
well, yeah, the gear
<stipa>
but i think it's 99$ after first month
<[TheBug]>
yeah
<stipa>
that would be perfect for you
<stipa>
for your "backup" internet
<[TheBug]>
point being is there are still some caveats where it won't work as well as having cell as back-up atm but yeah generally if it was available would make a good back-up
<[TheBug]>
at least for now if a satellite goes out of range for a period you can lose your service for that period as well
<[TheBug]>
their coverage isn't quite all the way there yet
<stipa>
it slows down but i think the connection doesn't break
<stipa>
it's perfect for backup if land internet breaks, judging by the ideas of politicians these days i wouldn't be surprised if the fuck everything up, starlink will be oke i guess in those kind of situations
<[TheBug]>
connection for sure does break
<[TheBug]>
you can go watch Jeff Gerlings review on youtube as an example
<[TheBug]>
he actually didn't have a horible time but there are some drawbacks he does a good job of outlining
<stipa>
oh, man, of all people on YT you had to choose him
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<stipa>
[TheBug]: there are some dropouts still yeah
<stipa>
and being constrained to one area on earth only with your dish is shit
<stipa>
it's like that from the beginning seems like
<Armbian-Discord>
<lanefu> man another power outage
<Armbian-Discord>
<lanefu> its a bruiser this year
<Armbian-Discord>
<lanefu> i've got replacement batterries for my main UPS coming tomorrow.. adn then i just ordered another UPS just for my network and infra SBCs lol
<Armbian-Discord>
<IgorPec> OMG, i can't recall we ever had outage. once we had, but it was due to planned maintanace
<Armbian-Discord>
<IgorPec> here where i live
<Armbian-Discord>
<IgorPec> in the country side, where i grew up, this was more common
<Armbian-Discord>
<lanefu> wow
<Armbian-Discord>
<IgorPec> our power grid is very good
<nekomancer[m]>
usa have flaw infrastructure. "just business", limited responsipolity.
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> My power has blinked a few times, was out once this year
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> Not too many places in Europe have power infrastructure more than 70 years old like we do here . ;-)
<Armbian-Discord>
<IgorPec> well, also you have big land to cover
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> I wouldn't give them that much credit, it's mostly that we have a lot of overhead lines and trees. 😆
<nekomancer[m]>
my flat have power outage 2 times this year (one time cable break, second planned repair). and about 10 or 15 years before no one.
<nekomancer[m]>
<Armbian-Discord "<Tonymac32> Not too many places"> live museum!
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> And the circuits are only still working because of flat screens and LED lightbulbs, or else we'd have blown the whole system by now
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> My mother had to have a special transformer installed when hers failed because it was only 8000 volt, standard has been 12kv since the 1950's
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> 😆
<nekomancer[m]>
<Armbian-Discord "<Tonymac32> And the circuits ar"> you have a iCars now.
<nekomancer[m]>
110V too small. 220V 2 times better
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> Houses are 240, and any big appliance runs 240
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> The wall sockets for small things are 120
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> And if you get shocked by them, most of the time you are ok
<[TheBug]>
lanefu: You see those Jackery solutions I had mentioned the other day?
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> The electric cars are going to destroy the grid. I have popcorn (that can be popped over my gas range) available for the occasion
<[TheBug]>
lanefu: if you don't always want to worry about getting your generator on one of those could be useful and allow upgrades to add solar to it for charing...
<[TheBug]>
for sure not cheap though...
<[TheBug]>
In rural areas they liked to shoestring high volatge power lines through trees and over mountaintops like numptys so anytime there is a huge weather event that gets the trees ripped up or causes a lot of wind in those areas is messes up the lines
<[TheBug]>
I couldn't even start to imagine how much they spend on just repairing the lines
<[TheBug]>
some places will have more than one power source that feeds them especially in the city, but out in the rural areas if your primary source goes down, your down
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> Well, they do clear them, but trees grow ¯_(ツ)_/¯
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> Line repair is a lot. They need to go to underground more widely to help with reliability
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> Father was a lineman for the local power company, I job shadowed a line engineer as well. Incremental improvements are simple and organic, but a home doubling their instantaneous demand (say, adding an EV), is not going to go well
<[TheBug]>
yeah
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> If a whole neighborhood adds them... Well. ಠ_ಠ
<Armbian-Discord>
<lanefu> Yeah they've started going in ground here now. Neighors house had service upgraded and they burried from pole to house
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> Usually that has to be paid by the homeowner though, unless they had no choice
<[TheBug]>
interestingly my mom worked for phone company and did was a lineman or however it's referred
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> I think I have 100-150 A input, despite having a 200A panel
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> This neighborhood was built in the 1930's
<[TheBug]>
Tonymac32: thats also why Tesla was pushing solar with their cars...
<[TheBug]>
they know..
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> Hahahaha solar with a tesla
<Armbian-Discord>
<lanefu> My service is legit 200 because it got upgraded before i bought
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> If you wait a week to drive, sure
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> Or love in the desert
<[TheBug]>
well to offset is the idea
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> Live*
<Armbian-Discord>
<lanefu> Yeah there's some mandates in virginia that power is procured from renewable resources
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> Good luck
<Armbian-Discord>
<lanefu> So lots of door to door solar sales
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> Unless they count nuclear as renewable...
<[TheBug]>
actually been considering solar here as we are on top of mountain
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> (⌐■-■)
<[TheBug]>
we could actually make reliable amount of power
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> Not too bad down there
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> Up here it would be... Problematic
<Armbian-Discord>
<lanefu> Haha yeah we're on nuclear for baseline power
<Armbian-Discord>
<lanefu> Westinghouse reactors from late 70s. You know the new ones
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> According to China it would seem so
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> Since they have a failing one of similar design that is "just fine"
<archetech_>
debian runs on apple M1
<stipa>
i ate my dose right now
<archetech_>
may be the next arm project if I can get one used /cheap
<stipa>
i meant on popcorn, sorry my window was one page above
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> I assume the M1 hardware will not remain hackable long. This is to get people to accept/embrace/talk about it
<archetech_>
wrg its even got panfrost dev rev eng the gpu driver
<stipa>
why not, steve wozniak supports open source...
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> And has nothing to do with Apple anymore
<stipa>
all right, now faggots run it
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> Stipa come on now, we know better. I was going to say management and sales/marketing types
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> It's all about cashing in on the uneducated cult following
<stipa>
Tonymac32 i don't think apple users think of themselves as uneducated
<stipa>
i think it's opposite
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<stipa>
but
<stipa>
there are some that have to have everything apple
<stipa>
phone, computer, laptop, headphones
<stipa>
that's sick
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<stipa>
those are the smartest
<stipa>
they usually compare to the windows users
<stipa>
and android phones
<stipa>
i think they don't know what linux is
<Xogium>
well, for what its worth, there was a study a while back that showed that apple big fans have their brain triggering the very same regions that get triggered by fanatic religious cults
<stipa>
probably
<stipa>
seems like it
<stipa>
it's hard to believe, but hey, anything is possible
<archetech_>
this should be alot cheaper hware when it comes to sbc's G78