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<stipa>
damn, my 4g modem is crasing, rebooting by itsrlf
<stipa>
it worked fine few weeks and now it has party
<stipa>
i see that isp updated firmware in fourth month but it's the same crap as it was new
<[TheBug]>
heat or power
<[TheBug]>
probably needs a heatsink and fan
* TRS-80
just queried PinePhone modem for cell tower info via ssh from desktop :)
<TRS-80>
my mind is exploding at the possibilities, it's so refreshing after Android
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<stipa>
[TheBug]: i've plugged beffy psu into it but it's not the lack of power, maybe overheating cause i haven't been inside of it
<stipa>
TRS-80: lucky you
<stipa>
maybe the isp is rebooting it
<stipa>
if they can update the firmware they can probably reboot it as well
<stipa>
i remember when i had adsl they could log into those and do what ever they wanted
<TRS-80>
better cover it in tinfoil, mate
<stipa>
it is covered at one side
<stipa>
to boost the signal
<TRS-80>
atta boy! :)
<stipa>
\o/
<TRS-80>
you still using OPi Zero (or whatever) as your main internet connection?
<stipa>
nope, it's old intel laptop now
<stipa>
pretty stable
<stipa>
only bad is that it doesn't want to pass the bios if something is plugged into usb3 port on cold start
<stipa>
so i have to unplug it from usb3 and then plug it after boot screen in in order to get to the os
<TRS-80>
eww
<stipa>
after that if i boot to os and reboot the system it's ok
<stipa>
it doesn't halt
<stipa>
maybe it some usb settings for legacy bios or something like that
<stipa>
legacuy usb*
<stipa>
legacy*
<stipa>
ufei crap and that stuff
<stipa>
uefi boot
<stipa>
TRS-80: hows piphone, read few weeks ago that linux sucked backthen
<lanefu>
TRS-80: man... neeeeerd phone.. thast rad
<lanefu>
manage your contacts with ansible
<stipa>
there a quite a few distros for it...
<lanefu>
lol what if you ran asterisk ON your pinephone and bridged calls to it, and gave people voice menus
<buZz>
selfhosted voicemail on a mobile device is a long long dream of mine
<buZz>
one of these days ...
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<TRS-80>
you see, I am not the only one having nerdgasm at the possibilities, which are now endless :)
<stipa>
what could be better than running servers and radiating dick at the same time
<TRS-80>
oh my
<stipa>
server in pants
<stipa>
pants pocket server
<TRS-80>
stipa: For me it is getting very close to daily driver. But I must state strongly "YMMV" because I also read a lot of disappointed / upset people, but IMO they did not do their homework / know what they were getting.
<TRS-80>
phone calls (including VoLTE), SMS, and 4G data all work; MMS do not and camera is a potato (putting it mildly)
<TRS-80>
but a Linux computer in your pocket is cool
<TRS-80>
Oh yeah many things not adapted for mobile, either. Probably biggest hurdle.
<TRS-80>
But a few are. And I have been looking today at Gnome / Phosh app development, it seems like a piece of cake.
<stipa>
yeah, seems like lots of devs are trying to make it fully funcrional
<TRS-80>
yes, things are progressing quite rapidly
<TRS-80>
there is a lot of excitement, even though it's early days
<TRS-80>
being able to apt get install packages, or compile them from source, on a phone, is just ... amazing! :)
<stipa>
it is an amazing phone and affordable i hope it'll end well
<TRS-80>
I actually wrote whole long post about how I was a Librem 5 guy (still am) but PinePhone are actually shipping devices
<TRS-80>
the fact they are shipping so many devices (and their low cost) is creating a lot of excitement
<TRS-80>
but Purism to be fair have done all the heavy lifting of developing phosh, which many other distros are actually now using
<stipa>
yeah cool
<stipa>
the power of open source
<buZz>
cant wait for a release of the pinephone keyboard
<TRS-80>
I tried once or twice to give Android app development a play, but was totally put off by the IDE and Javashit
<TRS-80>
but here you can use almost any language you want, it's awesome
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<TRS-80>
buZz: Yeah one of my biggest pain points right now is no Swype-like keyboard, but I been wondering if this goes away with hardware keyboard they are working on.
<TRS-80>
esp since I am heavy emacs user
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<TRS-80>
I don't really need any other software on there (maybe phone dialer) lol
<stipa>
i didn't know there's pihone keboard
<stipa>
pinephone keyboard*
<TRS-80>
yep check it out, actually looks pretty cool; bringing back hardware keyboards baby! :)
<TRS-80>
stuff like that is why I have warmed up to Pine, you are just not seeing that from anyone else since years now
<stipa>
yeah, it has chunky keys
<TRS-80>
it's currently in development, but there are some pics and stuff on their blog
<Armbian-Discord>
<NeonFetch> pinephone 2 based on rk3566 would be a massive win
<Armbian-Discord>
<NeonFetch> that keyboard lookes great to me
<TRS-80>
NeonFetch has a case of the new shiny, methinks ;)
<TRS-80>
I actually appreciate their strategy of choosing an older and well supported (in Linux) SoC. Less risk for them. Many prior Linux on phone projects have failed. We need to build an entire ecosystem, almost from scratch (well, with GNU/Linux as a base, so not really). But against incumbents with many years and $millions of head start. A daunting task...
<stipa>
sure
<TRS-80>
Choosing older less sexy hardware almost insure only die hards, hackers, enthusiasts buying them at first. We get them in our hands and build all the software, smooth out rough edges. Then a few years later that hardware gets mature, PinePhone 2 as you describe and things looking really good by then. That's how I see it playing out.
<TRS-80>
Maybe by then it will be suitable device for normies, but not yet.
<stipa>
it's a good plan, even if hardware is old it's much better then having newest chips on the market and abandoned project
<stipa>
without support for the users
<TRS-80>
that is exactly what Purism did with Librem 5, much sexier, newer, (and open) SoC but then they spent 3 years paying iMX to write Linux support for it... and they are still not shipping...
<stipa>
right
<sunshavi>
TRS-80: congrats on your PP
<TRS-80>
sunshavi: thanks old Emacs fren :)
<sunshavi>
I am in the process of using the evil pkg now
<TRS-80>
oh yes don't you use both?
<sunshavi>
Yes. But separately. Now I am trying to integrate everything within emacs again
<sunshavi>
some rough edges yet
<TRS-80>
yes I tried a modal keybindings once, xah-fly-keys, but I couldn't get into it
<sunshavi>
I used that one in the past too
<sunshavi>
then i moved to dvorak
<sunshavi>
then to god-mode
<sunshavi>
but within SBC god-mode is too slow
<sunshavi>
then I went to vim
<sunshavi>
now evil-mode :)
<TRS-80>
yeah that's crazy
<TRS-80>
in a good way, I mean
<TRS-80>
I admire people who can retrain their brain to such extent, like people who use blank keyboards and move the keys around...
<TRS-80>
position of letters I mean
<TRS-80>
to more exotic layouts like those
<TRS-80>
blank keycaps rather
<sunshavi>
I thought about that too. But even now it is an issue When someone lend me a win machine with qwerty. That's a pain for me
<sunshavi>
and putting dvorak on win is not as simple as setxkbmap dvorak
<TRS-80>
are you in work environment where that happens often enough?
<sunshavi>
or using an external monitor on laptop with win is so difficult. When I have a oneliner on my bashrc for doing it in a blink
<sunshavi>
two of my children are win-users cos of the school
<sunshavi>
they prefer it. Cos it is easier for them playing games ;)
<TRS-80>
I am in process of moving whatever is not private into a public dotfiles repo so I can instantly become productive at any internet connected machine
<TRS-80>
sunshavi: provide them a box that boots to TTY only and tell them about startx and let them figure it out from there ;)
<sunshavi>
Yes. my bashrc is published on the web
<sunshavi>
the older one knows emacs. But still he prefers win
<sunshavi>
but still. sometimes i discover him watching videos from my elfeed session
<sunshavi>
plays myman remotely from putty
<sunshavi>
practice speed-typing from within emacs
<TRS-80>
he is on the path to greatness
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<sunshavi>
the last-one is a unix user (well the more common reincarnation produced but linus)
<sunshavi>
he is just 8 years old. But I think in the near future he is going to be win-user too. cos of the same. the games
<Armbian-Discord>
<NeonFetch> indeed, but rk3566 is about making it useful and not just a toy
<Armbian-Discord>
<NeonFetch> i am thinking on long road..
<TRS-80>
NeonFetch I can tell you that PinePhone is already quite useful! Hardly any noticeable lag in UI. Maybe while browsing (but "modern web" a shit).
<sunshavi>
ok. in the past I have tried ledger. But i think I need a touch interface on my phone for creating the ledger files when on the street doing the expense
<sunshavi>
remembering all the expenses at the end of the day is too cumbersome. and using an on-screen kbd on the business is too nerdy. even with a phone with a hw-kbd it is difficult
<TRS-80>
There is nice app in F-Droid called Beancount I think (for Beancount) and another one for Ledger for exactly such use case. But I only use that for cash. Mainly I always get receipt and photograph it immediately. Then I wrote some Emacs Lisp to work in Dired to quickly and easily select Vendor and other info and rename the file and also spit out a Beancount transaction. Easy peasy. Becasue
<TRS-80>
any friction will keep you from doing it.
<TRS-80>
In other words I tag and categorize the expense later (in comfort of Emacs). I also end up with nice phote of receipt this way. Which doesn't fade away a few months later...
<sunshavi>
nice. looks interesting. nokia n900 here
<sunshavi>
your workflow looks interesting. perhaps in the future i could try mimic Beancount-App on a gtk-App for n900
<TRS-80>
Why am I not surprised you have n900. :)
<TRS-80>
I missed the boat on that one. But I have a bunch of classic ThinkPads to make up for it.
<sunshavi>
x30 and x220 here
<TRS-80>
n900 is using Gtk? You will fit right in on PinePhone (well, with Phosh anyway). Just today I was watching videos and reading up on Gtk and it actually looks very easy and straightforward!
<TRS-80>
sunshavi: nice bookends for my T60s! Have we discussed this before?
<sunshavi>
TRS-80: n900 uses gtk. I have spent more time within n800 than on n900. When I moved to n900 I ported a couple of GTK apps to n900
<sunshavi>
n900 Also uses Qt. But I have not done Qt on n900
<TRS-80>
I never looked into Qt, but I read some criticism of it. From license standpoint of course but also usability. No direct experience though.
<sunshavi>
Yes. PP is one of my alternatives. But with maemo-leste
<sunshavi>
as a wxgtk user. I think Qt is better
<TRS-80>
interdasting
<sunshavi>
license is not an issue nowadays
<sunshavi>
we have not had any discussion about thinkpads IMO
<TRS-80>
from little bits I read, seems like they shot themselves in the foot with that and people still think it and they probably lost a lot of mind share (and momentum?) because of it
<sunshavi>
well vlc used to be a wxwidgets app. for multi-platform support. now vlc used Qt
<TRS-80>
As regards PP, I read a really well researched article about a year ago which sort of convinced me that Phosh would be the horse to back so to speak. I bet you are more familiar with some of the history of past Linux on phone attempts, but let me dig it up.
<sunshavi>
s/vlc used Qt/vlc uses Qt/
<ArmbianHelper>
sunshavi meant to say: well vlc used to be a wxwidgets app. for multi-platform support. now vlc uses Qt
<TRS-80>
I been following GNU/Linux phone scene pretty closely for a couple (few?) years now and it seems to me the more time goes on the more his predictions have been bourne out.
<sunshavi>
yes. sure probably phosh is the way to go lately.
<TRS-80>
I remeber back then Purism were getting a lot of criticism for writing a new framework instead of using one of existing ones
<sunshavi>
TRS-80 But. having maemo-leste would let me use anything as it is on my n900 from 2009. I want to preserve that
<TRS-80>
sunshavi: More power to you, mate! I am jumping in to a clean slate.
<TRS-80>
s/I/I, on the other hand,/
<ArmbianHelper>
TRS-80 meant to say: sunshavi: More power to you, mate! I, on the other hand, am jumping in to a clean slate.
<TRS-80>
I do wonder some times about some of other options. There is a multi boot sd card image that I should probably try some time. Even though I am Debian guy and already pretty much made up my mind on Mobian with Phosh...
<sunshavi>
TRS-80 battery life on n900 used to be of 4d. I think nothing from today is going to beat that
<TRS-80>
sunshavi: Nope. But the hardware keyboard Pine64 are working on also include a huge additional battery. :)
<TRS-80>
Which is nice mitigation, IMO, given the circumstances
<TRS-80>
I have heard many tales of the legendary device. And other PDAs from back then which could do things you still cannot in Android to this day.
<sunshavi>
TRS-80 Right. for watching videos on n900 from utu.be I need to convert them which is an additional step
<sunshavi>
that's true. I was a palm user too
<TRS-80>
I was having trouble with some video. So I apt install mpv and feed it the url on the command line and it actually worked! And well! I was amazed! :)
<sunshavi>
on n900 not mpv (not invented on 2009). Just old mplayer
<sunshavi>
mplayer-2009 does have the latest codecs
<TRS-80>
It's cool device but I fear the passage of time will eventually overtake you. I feel that way about my ThinkPads as well, but I am still hanging on to those, too...
<TRS-80>
PinePhone is one of very few "modern" devices I give any crap about.
<sunshavi>
TRS-80 But in the past I thought tui is a lot better than web and both of them could serve the same purpose. But TUI gives You a cleaner interfase without ads. I think that is still true
<TRS-80>
modern web a shit
<TRS-80>
browser complexity like OS, even huge multinationals like M$ and Google decide it's too much to develop by themselves, unbelievable
<sunshavi>
TRS-80 r You eww|w3m user?
<TRS-80>
No because most websites don't even work without JavaShit nowadays, unfortunately
<sunshavi>
TRS-80 I am launching a browser on opi+2e is a painful experience.
<TRS-80>
I have been following Nyxt (sp?) with interest, however
<TRS-80>
yeah I bet lol
<sunshavi>
TRS-80 Yes Nyxt is interesting. But I would need more space on opi+2e
<TRS-80>
there is no good browser solution right now IMO, and Firefox is still probably the least bad option (and believe me, I keep looking!)
<TRS-80>
lol it's probably tiny compared to FF though XD
<sunshavi>
there is no other alternative than FF
<sunshavi>
unix users should use FF and no other browser
<TRS-80>
seeing the state of current Mozilla is depressing
<sunshavi>
but think about BSD's without FF
<TRS-80>
even FF slipping in bullshit these days, to my understanding
<TRS-80>
but there is nothing else unfortunatelyt
<sunshavi>
Right.
<TRS-80>
Mozilla kept on life support by Google money just as a hedge against an anti trust proceeding, terrible state of affairs
<sunshavi>
Yes. But think for a moment what would happen if mozilla gets out of business
<sunshavi>
Perhaps gopher on cli the only alternative
<TRS-80>
maybe Chrome gets broken up and we see actual competition again
<TRS-80>
ok missus coming, time for bed :)
<TRS-80>
nice chatting as always
<sunshavi>
lol. 'dreaming has no cost'
<TRS-80>
cheers mate
<sunshavi>
Same to You. rest
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<kprasadvnsi[m]>
where is the WiFi/BT firmware files in an Armbian image.
<kprasadvnsi[m]>
* where is the WiFi/BT firmware files in an Armbian image?
<Xogium>
I'd say in /lib/firmware
<Xogium>
somewhere around there
<Xogium>
after that it is per vendor
<Xogium>
like brcm is for braodcom fw
<Xogium>
er broadcom
<kprasadvnsi[m]>
ok, there are a lot of files in here. which one the system is loading?
<Xogium>
depends entirely on your chip
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> WHICHEVER ONE THE DRIVER ASKS FOR
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> oof caps
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> sorry
<Armbian-Discord>
<IgorPec> by default only a small selection of firmware is provided. to get them all you need to apt get armbian-firmware-full
<Armbian-Discord>
<IgorPec> good morning 😉
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> good morning Igor
<kprasadvnsi[m]>
Good morning Igor
<kprasadvnsi[m]>
I am trying to get WiFi/BT working for OPi Zero2. I know this board is WIP but trying to understand how they load WiFI firmware in vendor Image.
<Armbian-Discord>
<IgorPec> that's a long shot. i am not sure there is a driver for this weirdo chip in mainline kernel
<kprasadvnsi[m]>
They used AW859A which i can't find any info on the internet
<Armbian-Discord>
<IgorPec> as expected
<Armbian-Discord>
<IgorPec> its only used here and perhaps on some tv box and was never used before
<Xogium>
allwinner is also keeping every useful bit of actually useful info to themselves
<kprasadvnsi[m]>
I will de-cap the shielding as a last resort to know what chipset they actually using in this weird module
<Xogium>
their own
<Armbian-Discord>
<IgorPec> yes, this this their second one
<Xogium>
it is really that chip the AW859a thing
<Armbian-Discord>
<IgorPec> after infamous XR819
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> ugh
<Xogium>
ewww
<Xogium>
I suspect it is as every bit as crappy, then
<Xogium>
one of my friend is actually lucky with that crap xr819, he's been listening to some web radio with it all day long and its been fine
<Xogium>
I do not know how he managed to beat the chip and driver into submition
<Xogium>
the first time I got it running, my board took 15 minutes to fully lock up, starting with the serial console first
<Xogium>
progressive lockups are so much fun
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> I had luck with the one in the original NanoPi Duo actually
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> but
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> still
<Xogium>
maybe there are worst chips than other lol
<kprasadvnsi[m]>
Ok, found something. What the hell is this wcnmodem.bin file?
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> Lanefu tinker-2 branch has GPU and type-C USB working now. Was a snafu building the device tree using the 4.4 as reference 🤣
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<Armbian-Discord>
<kprasadvnsi> The AW859A is made by CDTech. www.cdtech.cn
<Armbian-Discord>
<kprasadvnsi> It can do 5GHz WiFi as well
<Armbian-Discord>
<kprasadvnsi> The chipset used in this module is UWE5622
<hyphop1>
plz share links to khadas edge nightly build images and other khadas boards
<Xogium>
random question, trying to get nfs working on custom distro here, but any of you ever encountered an error where mounting a nfs share results in it saying
<Xogium>
rpc prog. not avail
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<PPAChao>
Trying to set up a wi-fi hotspot on my OPi0+ led me to this thread; does the conclusion hold true and I should just not bother, or has there been any process in the years since?
<PPA>
I tried but ran into problems, looking those up is what led me to the thread
<buZz>
any problems with actual errors?
<PPA>
“deauthenticated due to local deauth request”
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<PPA>
(after launching hostapd and trying to connect anything to it)
<PPA>
I've yet to try everything I read here and there though, like disabling NetworkManager before launching hostapd, or having a dhcp server run in the background already
<buZz>
have you tried WPA2-TKIP instead of WPA2-AES?
<buZz>
of course you'd have to disable networkmanager yeah
<buZz>
and hostapd also isnt a dhcp server
<Armbian-Discord>
<IgorPec> or without authentication, different hostapd
<PPA>
I know, that's a separate thing
<Armbian-Discord>
<IgorPec> i think AP should work, but its bereliy usable
<buZz>
either way 'local deauth request' smells like config, not hardware
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<Armbian-Discord>
<IgorPec> or related to changes in kernel. those dirty drivers were never updated
<PPA>
Smells like config but I'm using the default one that ships with Armbian (in /etc/hostapd.conf)
<PPA>
and the searching around I've done for the error brought up all kinds of random non-answers
<PPA>
nothing consistent
<Armbian-Discord>
<IgorPec> i have seen this problem before, but can't make any assisication
<buZz>
yeah wifi is near magic :P
<PPA>
For some users the problem had to do with generating sufficient entropy (doesn't seem to be it, because the values on my machine are well above what ultimately solved it for them), sometimes the problem wasn't solved at all, or the user was using a different software stack
* PPA
shrugs
<PPA>
I'm going to keep searching and try different things as I find the time; will report back if I come across a solution
<buZz>
never had i expected to go >100mbps over wifi, back when 802.11b got introduced, lol
<Armbian-Discord>
<IgorPec> it is an offence attaching so crap wifi to Mirotik 😉
<Armbian-Discord>
<IgorPec> yeah, wifi improved a lot in past years
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<stipa>
PPA: try to put static adress on the client
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<stipa>
IgorPec it's crap but it's stable probably
<stipa>
buZz: yeah, i remember wifi b in adhoc mode, it worked great with multiplayer games of that time
<stipa>
back then something like hostapd was a dream on linux
<stipa>
there was like on card that supported ap mode and worked on linux
<stipa>
one card*
<stipa>
and it was very expensive
<buZz>
stipa: sure, until >5 people in your neighbourhood had wifi hw ;)
<buZz>
prism2 ?
<stipa>
yeah, that's it
<buZz>
that chipset was really quite well supported by hostapd
<buZz>
i still have a pile of em around
<buZz>
even a prism2 on a 8bit(!!!!) PCMCIA card
<buZz>
well 16bit i guess
<buZz>
the pre-PCI ones, so not cardbus
<stipa>
right, very hi tech stuff of that time
<lanefu>
@tonymac32 when do w want to merge tinker-2 branch?
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> If we wait until the end of the week I can get some more stuff wrapped up. It's functional now but missing some parts. I need to find the wifi firmware for that card as well
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> I think Asus sent it to me, I'll check my files
<nekomancer[m]>
> another (big) problem is VoLTE
<nekomancer[m]>
LineageOS will not support it,
<nekomancer[m]>
why?
<buZz>
ask in #lineagoOS ?
<buZz>
or #android-root perhaps
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<stipa>
is usb3 on opi 3 working ?
<[TheBug]>
which one is opi3
<[TheBug]>
H6?
<stipa>
yes
<[TheBug]>
Hmm I actually don't know the answer to that.. one of the few alwinners I don't have
<[TheBug]>
cause its the bastardized implementation of pcie and such.. in the Allwinner way
<stipa>
mine on pi lite 2 doesn't work without ussb3 attached to it
<stipa>
but opi 3 has probably hub chip on board
<[TheBug]>
you mean you are using it for power?
<stipa>
it doesn't work
<stipa>
works only with usb3 hub plugged into it
<[TheBug]>
ohh yeah
<[TheBug]>
same with ESPRESSOBin
<[TheBug]>
means they didn't do power delivery correctly
<[TheBug]>
and it fails to supply correct power needed for anything above USB 2 standard
<stipa>
dunno
<[TheBug]>
so yeah you will need a powered USB hub that will provide the correct power rating needed for the device
<[TheBug]>
yep, EBin is like that and made me pull out all my hair to figure out
<[TheBug]>
spent a week tracking that down trying to get a 4 port usb dock to connect to it with usb3
<[TheBug]>
er 4 port USB SATA dock
<stipa>
nah, it works without powered hub too on opi lite 2
<stipa>
it has only one usb3 port
<stipa>
and it's dead without hub
<[TheBug]>
yeah its dead without hub because power isn't being delivered to spec
<[TheBug]>
I assume you use a powered hub?
<stipa>
i have both
<stipa>
both behave the same
<stipa>
they work some time and crash
<[TheBug]>
effectively on EBIn if you don't have a powered USB 3 hub you can't link anything at above USB 2 cause power output won't be to spec so will never link above USB 2
<[TheBug]>
I had to get a powered usb hub and plug a 5v2A adapter into it
<stipa>
opi lite 2 detects usb3 devices in hub
<stipa>
inside of hub
<stipa>
in either case, only usb2 port is useful
<stipa>
and it's like that for a long time
<TRS-80>
very few (none?) mfrs / devices have implemented proper USB-PD (is that proper term/acronym?) profiles, it seems like to me
<stipa>
there's something that it likes and start to work when usb3 hub is plugged into it
<stipa>
OTG port also sux
<stipa>
something it setects something not
<stipa>
detects*
<stipa>
OTG port for some reason loves ethernet nics
<TRS-80>
those are not American ideals. Maybe "modern" America. Which is not very American, either.
<TRS-80>
America was a nation of explorers, settlers, makers, now becoming domesticated and financialized. Don't worry, it will all fall apart soon enough.
<nekomancer[m]>
and then new dark ages will fall
<TRS-80>
for some I guess
<TRS-80>
the rest of us will be setting up independent networks using our SBCs :)
<TRS-80>
PinePhone is working on all these alternative satellite comms and LoRa stuff, in fact. Not sure what to make of it but the premise is intriguing, if not a bit far fetched (to ma anyway)
<TRS-80>
but they actually ship hardware, so who knows
<TRS-80>
Pine64, rather
<TRS-80>
s/to ma/to me/
<ArmbianHelper>
TRS-80 meant to say: PinePhone is working on all these alternative satellite comms and LoRa stuff, in fact. Not sure what to meke of it but the premise is intriguing, if not a bit far fetched (to ma anyway)
<TRS-80>
bah
<Armbian-Discord>
<IgorPec> do you really buy this pine BS?
<TRS-80>
sattelite stuff is a bit far fetched to me (to put it mildly) but they have a lot of other interesting and compelling products (for people like us) that they are already shipping that I like
<stipa>
who has more money wins
<nekomancer[m]>
all modern hardware and software depends on backbone networks. there no hw for mesh nets
<Armbian-Discord>
<IgorPec> pine is producing spins to sell hardware
<TRS-80>
ROCKPro64 have a real PCIe slotm for example, physical, on the board. All other RK3399 require unique adapter or fiddling about. But my ROCKPro64 I just insert standard PCIe to SATA and bam ZFS NAS
<TRS-80>
IgorPec: I used to think exactly the same in fact
<nekomancer[m]>
all mass-produced radios are underpowered
<TRS-80>
especially their $5 to each project gimmick
<TRS-80>
or whatever
<Armbian-Discord>
<IgorPec> and this is exactly waht pine is
<TRS-80>
but the fact remains they are producing interesting hardware at an attractive price point
<TRS-80>
I don't think they are exactly getting over on their margins but what do I know
<stipa>
IgorPec: aren't they all
<Armbian-Discord>
<IgorPec> whch they can because they invest close to nothing in most expensive part
<TRS-80>
I am well aware of it
<TRS-80>
and certainly understand your perspective
<TRS-80>
your (our?)
<Armbian-Discord>
<IgorPec> even crooks are not all the same size 😉
<TRS-80>
well I am (very!) glad to have a (working!) phone (in my hand!) that is not Android nor iOS
<TRS-80>
running real, no bee ess GNU/Linux
<TRS-80>
where else can you get that today?
<TRS-80>
probably what made me come around the most, that fact
<Armbian-Discord>
<IgorPec> a64 with closed radio in 2021 is a dream device
<TRS-80>
even though I am well aware that Purism did all the heavy lifting developing (and upstreaming!) phosh and phoc, etc.
<TRS-80>
not sure if srs? all radios are closed?
<Armbian-Discord>
<IgorPec> ofc they are
<TRS-80>
so were you being serious or sarcastic?
<Armbian-Discord>
<IgorPec> they are not lying, they just don't tell everythjing
<Armbian-Discord>
<IgorPec> i am dead serious
<TRS-80>
not even Librem 5 which is FSF RyF device is blob free
<Armbian-Discord>
<IgorPec> probably too, yes
<TRS-80>
it just isolate the modem which is about as good as it gets right now
<Armbian-Discord>
<IgorPec> they all fak it until possible
<TRS-80>
Pine are not even that open, but otoh they are actually shipping devices
<TRS-80>
I view it like AllWinner, they are notorious GPL violators, but what are some of best supported SoC by now?
<TRS-80>
due to efforts of community, in spite of them, not because of
<TRS-80>
but they sell so many for so cheap that it happens anyway
<stipa>
wifi is closed tech
<Armbian-Discord>
<IgorPec> and still make huge profits. this junk is dirt cheaop
<TRS-80>
both Purism and Pine64 are moving state of Linux phones forward (in different ways) and that is all I care about
<TRS-80>
so relevant question becomes how do we present ourselves to get some fair part of it
<Armbian-Discord>
<IgorPec> forward where? i don't understand what you gain if you have linux, but you are hooked to a network
<TRS-80>
surely you jest. you gain actual control of your device
<nekomancer[m]>
wifi is closed, all cellular nets are closed
<TRS-80>
it is a massive improvement from where we are now with Android for example
<TRS-80>
are we moving the gfoal poast now?
<TRS-80>
remember when Windows was relevant? lol give it some time
<Armbian-Discord>
<IgorPec> massive improvement is pine sales pitch. what is reality ?
<TRS-80>
reality is I am making phone calls on a real GNU Linux phone
<TRS-80>
with VoLTE even
<TRS-80>
and 5G data
<TRS-80>
4G soprry
<TRS-80>
typo
<TRS-80>
I guess I am just so disgusted with Android by now, been getting worse and worse for years
<Armbian-Discord>
<IgorPec> BS. all conections to outside world, except serial connection are closed source.
<TRS-80>
Pine are sponsoring development of a open source radio, ok not sponmsoring but a bounty or something. I know what you will say and you are not wrong but no one else doing anything close that I can see
<TRS-80>
some guy got linux booting on PinePhone radio already (I know, long way to go) but this is what happens when you get devices into hands of people
<ikmaak>
the modem itself by now can install pmOS
<Armbian-Discord>
<IgorPec> i read BS news too
<TRS-80>
ikmaak: Well, I would guess it's not that functional, but I was not aware of that development, thanks
<TRS-80>
I can ssh into my phone over wifi and check what tower I am connected from desktop. isn't that cool?
<ikmaak>
that OS is able to make calls with the moden as well, if i understood right. that was already a few months ago
<Armbian-Discord>
<IgorPec> but again this is down to communicy revers engineering.
<Armbian-Discord>
<IgorPec> worse waste of time possible
<Armbian-Discord>
<IgorPec> its not aproblem to communicate with modem. this is the way all OSes operate
<Armbian-Discord>
<IgorPec> modem is "API"
<TRS-80>
I am not against your point of view Igor. I know you are professional with high standards who do things right, which is why I am here and I try and support what I can.
<stipa>
yeah, but it's not visible to the user
<ikmaak>
and btw, only one of the desktops is created/funded by Purism. Plasma Mobile for instance isnt
<TRS-80>
ikmaak: but they mostly all using phosh
<ikmaak>
most ppl i know use Plasma or SXMO
<Armbian-Discord>
<IgorPec> i am just saying its a lot of bullshit sorruiding this story
<TRS-80>
which is Purism work, they upstream to Gnome (to their credit, actually turned my opinion of them around a little)
<TRS-80>
IgorPec: I am aware of the bullshit, I guess I am still excited anyway. If you wish I will refrain from talking about it so much in your channel.
<ikmaak>
phosh is not the DE that seems to get most dev time, in my view
<TRS-80>
ikmaak: t. KDE dev XD
<TRS-80>
I dunno about that, man
<stipa>
whichever works*
<ikmaak>
i follow the dev a lot, and by now it seems to me that Purism is getting a lot of code back from the user testing of the pinephone (even with other DEs)
<ikmaak>
TRS-80: i did not understand that comment to me
<TRS-80>
well yeah that is what I figure too (I am not watching patches, but it makes sense)
<TRS-80>
ikmaak: I joke that you are KDE developer :)
<ikmaak>
ah, noo, i am not knowledgeable enough :(
<TRS-80>
but that's what I mean when I say everyone benefit when Pine64 sell a lot of devices for cheap, it is benefitting Linux phone dev overall, and it's all upstream
<TRS-80>
lol I saw that, was this the NSA / Android phishing device (sold by shell company for "security")? lol
<TRS-80>
NSA shell company, or whatever
<Armbian-Discord>
<IgorPec> trs-80: pine produces low quality expnesive to support hardware. almost all others produce better quality hw and provide support
<TRS-80>
see, I did not know that
<TRS-80>
no wonder you are upset, you have right to be
<TRS-80>
or "not buying the bs"
<Armbian-Discord>
<IgorPec> they are not the worse to be honest, but quality is not on their side
<TRS-80>
but I am not in the know on such things, which is why I hang out here and try and learn
<TRS-80>
but they are selling at pretty good price point, which seems to be one of keys to success in this market
<TRS-80>
you think their margins are really that good (I have no idea, honestly)?
<Armbian-Discord>
<IgorPec> all support on pinephone is changing "wallapeprs and icons"
<ikmaak>
pine just offers the hw, and leaves all the sw dev to "the community". the only thing they do is try to get info from the chip manufacturers, and relay it to the devs
<stipa>
and dates
<Armbian-Discord>
<IgorPec> ikmaak: as everyone else
<ikmaak>
yes, but they are clear about it
<TRS-80>
ikmaak: I would wager IgorPec have a much better understanding of the actual dynamics of what goes on, all due respect :)
<Armbian-Discord>
<IgorPec> clear about what?
<ikmaak>
before, there was no good way to run mobile OSs, except of the horrible halium system
<TRS-80>
we all know Pine64 marketing story
<ikmaak>
clear about not doing the sw
<TRS-80>
well that is also true
<ikmaak>
i agree that igor likely has more knowledge than me
<Armbian-Discord>
<IgorPec> they actually do, but unofficially
<Armbian-Discord>
<IgorPec> they have a deal with manjaro
<stipa>
we'll see, lets hope it'll be fully functional
<TRS-80>
but you are right, they are not hiding this at all, in fact very up front about what their business model is
<TRS-80>
stipa: It mostly is already (depending on your expectations)
<ikmaak>
igor, you mean the deal about the pre-installed SW?
<TRS-80>
no there is more than that
<TRS-80>
they seem to clearly promote Manjaro KDE for some reason, even though it's shit and no one use it
<TRS-80>
apparently some long relationship from what I gather
<TRS-80>
anyway now that Community Editions are done, that is what ships on latest hardware
<stipa>
yeah, it's also promoted with pinebook
<ikmaak>
also, a lot of ppl got sucked into kde for having a slick bg img and screenshot
<Armbian-Discord>
<IgorPec> manjaro doesn't really have know-how to bring that up. they support it
<Armbian-Discord>
<IgorPec> that is their "not providing sw" deal
<Armbian-Discord>
<IgorPec> they just don't take any responsibility
<Armbian-Discord>
<IgorPec> because od that
<stipa>
is armbian working better on pinebook than manjaro?
<TRS-80>
stipa: All I know is that I heard lanefu raving about it maybe few months ago
<ikmaak>
at least i trust armbian a lot more :)
<TRS-80>
this was on alpha desktop stuff
<TRS-80>
in fact, IgorPec you can blame lanefu for getting me to look at Pine64 in the first place. XD
<stipa>
yeah, there was one other guy but he burned the battery chip or something
<Armbian-Discord>
<IgorPec> probably. but i don't know, we don't deal with it. the one from rich diead, werner give his away, lane might have one ....
<TRS-80>
Have you tried to reach out to them about improving relationship? Have they reach out to us?
<TRS-80>
I am on their forum a lot these days.,
<Armbian-Discord>
<IgorPec> they didn't change since start
<ikmaak>
i have asked a nr of times to different people in p64 to support armbian
<ikmaak>
but there is never a clear reply
<TRS-80>
Well I am over there promoting us when the opportunity arises. And a few other enlightened users there know what's up as well (FWIW).
<stipa>
i've come across some arch/manjaro devs and they're pretty agressive
<ikmaak>
i have seen a lot of agression targeted their way as well.
<Armbian-Discord>
<IgorPec> agressivness is common in this world 😉
<ikmaak>
i did not want to say it, Igor
<ikmaak>
sadly
<stipa>
IgorPec: you're like a butterfly compared to them
<Armbian-Discord>
<IgorPec> testesoron fueled games
The_Loko has quit [Quit: Leaving]
<ikmaak>
i have to say that the first time i spoke here i was shocked too. i did understand though that it is difficult to keep friendly under a deluge of demands and abuse
<Armbian-Discord>
<IgorPec> people are usually agressive when are insecure, scared, weak
<Armbian-Discord>
<IgorPec> not just people, animales in general
<stipa>
sure
<TRS-80>
it just motivate me to help more, I worry for poor Igor well being some times
<Armbian-Discord>
<IgorPec> i would go that deep and when you add lack of feamales, this world can quickly turn upside down
<TRS-80>
<3
<ikmaak>
i understand, but i am sad it is neccesary
<TRS-80>
all my SBC would be worthless without Armbian
<Armbian-Discord>
<IgorPec> sometimes threre is just too much bull shitting around and one can get really pissed and angrry
<stipa>
oyeah
<TRS-80>
I got into one guy a little bit the other day, but I try to explain to him setting a culture of self sufficiency is a self preservation mechanism in F/LOSS world
<ikmaak>
same here, i remember the times before the name armbian, and i have to say, if that was not there back then, my SBC career would have been short.
<ikmaak>
i am mostly lurking, but if some supporting talk is needed, i am willing to step in. just mention me.
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> Sheeeeeesh blowing up in here
<Armbian-Discord>
<IgorPec> now its Tony time 😉 lets get off 🙂
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> Hahahaha
<Armbian-Discord>
<IgorPec> we were mouring the olds days and rating over beer prices
<TRS-80>
So now that Kung Flu crazyness is subsiding, any plans on horizon for in person meet up?
<stipa>
ikmaak: yeah, there's a bunch of voyeurers on IRC
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> I just got rid of my mini2440
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> 😢
<ikmaak>
stipa: irc lurking can be very educational.
<Armbian-Discord>
<IgorPec> meeting in Salzburg is back on the table, yes
<ikmaak>
there have been a lot of times where i could solve my problems by reading backlog
<Armbian-Discord>
<IgorPec> so you US guys get a reson to visit the old continent
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> Salzburg looked cool enough my wife was even interested
<Armbian-Discord>
<IgorPec> yeah, its a nice town in pretty intact state since many time ago
<stipa>
austrians are full of pride
<stipa>
cocky
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> This makes then different from the rest of Europe how? :D
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> I work with German and French guys ;)
<ikmaak>
if you live in a town with a lot of 1000y buildings, it is strange to come to a city that has no buildings over a century old :P
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> A lot of my hometown was 200 years old or so, not more than 300, too far west
<stipa>
you know, the more the west you go the less shit there is
<stipa>
in europe
<stipa>
less mental reatardations
<stipa>
due to lack of wars and poverty
<stipa>
so people by many generations grew without fear already
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> Lol in the US it goes to less and less people , then suddenly a ton of people on the west coast
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> By many generations you mean 2? 😆
<stipa>
right
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> 70 years is a blink of the eye
<stipa>
yeah, here last war was 30 years ago
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> Of course 20 is far shorter
<TRS-80>
So are dates set or what? I am willing (and these days, can even afford! lol) to make the trip!
<archetech>
Machine: Type: ARM Device System: Pine64 Rock64
<TRS-80>
here comes one of thoe Manjaro fags we were talking about
<steev>
whoa
<TRS-80>
:p
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> My Romanian friends in the US are talking about going home because of the mess over here. I am still trying to figure out what that means exactly
<Armbian-Discord>
<IgorPec> agressive control freaks 😉
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> Some Radxa stuff just showed up in my mailbox
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> A zero and a RockPi 4C
<Armbian-Discord>
<IgorPec> aha, i also got some stuff today, but no idea what
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> Haha
<stipa>
Tonymac32 probably because of the economic collaps
<TRS-80>
stipa: there is lot of weird political and social stuff going on, too
<TRS-80>
we are living in the last days of Rome, after all
<stipa>
and since they're romanians it's best to withdraw
<stipa>
since they're not welcome
<TRS-80>
fun fact: celebrity chefs were apparently a thing, back then, too!
<TRS-80>
I don't know anyone who have problems with Eastern Europeans (now Westen ones)(
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> Hahaha I like them, their sense of humor is amazing, and sarcastic. My brand
<TRS-80>
s/(now Western ones)(/(nor Western ones)/
<ArmbianHelper>
Error: re.error: missing ), unterminated subpattern at position 18
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> Trs-80 broke irc
<stipa>
Tonymac32 you like them now but under the pressure and economical collaps maybe not
<TRS-80>
s/now Western ones)(/nor Western ones)/
<ArmbianHelper>
Error: re.error: unbalanced parenthesis at position 16
<TRS-80>
damot
<TRS-80>
prolly need to escape it but you get the point
<Armbian-Discord>
<IgorPec> haha
<TRS-80>
s/(now Western ones)\(/(nor Western ones)/
<ArmbianHelper>
Error: Search not found in the last 1000 IRC messages on this network.
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> Just stop man
<TRS-80>
leaning toothpicks here we come
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> It's dead Jim
<stipa>
Tonymac32 same happened in the UK, all foreigners were sent home
<stipa>
during the pandemic
<stipa>
theg got fired first
<stipa>
they*
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> Yeah we didn't do that
<TRS-80>
clearly you know nothing of what Regexp look like in Emacs Lisp
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> They're the management :)
<TRS-80>
this is childs play
<Armbian-Discord>
<IgorPec> it was nice traveling to croatia during pandemic
<Armbian-Discord>
<IgorPec> no one on the road, no one on the border
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> Haha
<Armbian-Discord>
<IgorPec> exceot piolice
<TRS-80>
no problem travelling?
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> See, remove them, paradise
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> Well ok, I expect some checks at a border
<Armbian-Discord>
<IgorPec> well, its was difficult, you need to do some paperwork
<TRS-80>
was sort of same here, much less traffic on the roads
<stipa>
yeah, Croatia live out of summertime
<stipa>
it's mine income
<TRS-80>
I was watching some YouTube video of some woman in NY who went down to Times Square or something and it was like a ghost town, very bizarre
<Armbian-Discord>
<IgorPec> we are back, so your income 😉
<stipa>
so they you know, let everyone in as asap
<stipa>
no problems of course and all that
<TRS-80>
So anyway dates? I did not see anything on forum?
<Armbian-Discord>
<IgorPec> no,. we don't have dates, but werner is responsible
<Armbian-Discord>
<IgorPec> he is also the closest and most familira with the destination
<TRS-80>
Should start a forum thread ASAP, no? Or we just keeping it to IRC? lol
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> For the bad times, it just needs remembered that I have a banjo
<Armbian-Discord>
<IgorPec> ping him, but we still need to wait until september to see what will happen
<Armbian-Discord>
<IgorPec> organising events today seems like a worse thing to do
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> Dates/times yeah
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> I finally "get' to go back to the office in September. Perfect time to take a vacation. :-)
<TRS-80>
Well, at least a little notice? It's sort of a big trip coming from US. Maybe at least make people aware it's coming, even if dates are not set. Many people have limited days off from work and only get more annually.
<Armbian-Discord>
<IgorPec> i usually went to the Balcan Linux conference in the end of spetember, but not sure if it will be this years
<Armbian-Discord>
<IgorPec> trs: absolutely. but at this stage we only said, lets trys this year. no dates yet
<Armbian-Discord>
<IgorPec> btw. in the last 10 or more years i haven't produce much traffic tickets
<Armbian-Discord>
<IgorPec> i made two
<Armbian-Discord>
<IgorPec> both in Salzburg
<stipa>
how much time is from lublana to salzburg?
<stipa>
by car
<Armbian-Discord>
<IgorPec> don't remember exactly, about two and half perhjaps