Werner changed the topic of #armbian to: armbian - Linux for ARM development boards | www.armbian.com | Github: github.com/armbian | Commits: #armbian-commits | Developer talk: #armbian-devel | Forum/Twitter feed: #armbian-rss | Type 'help' for help | Logs: -> irc.armbian.com
<Armbian-Discord> <l​anefu> what other
<lanefu> channels?
<TRS-80> announce I guess
<lanefu> ha.. never used that one
<lanefu> maybe we forgot that oen
<TRS-80> the one with the github updates and stuff?
<lanefu> new one is #armbian-desktop
<lanefu> armbian-commits
<TRS-80> yeah that one (I think)
<ArmbianHelper> Check out our awesome documentation! It's tremendous, promise! https://docs.armbian.com/
<lanefu> lol
<TRS-80> too much emojis there for me
<lanefu> yeah Werner had a different stylistic approach on that one
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<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> Lol I am not from WV
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<Armbian-Discord> <l​anefu> there's a little bit of WV in all of us
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<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> lol the rockpi 4c shipped without a heatsink. Should I do a review for Tom's hardware and act like I don't know it needs one?
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> I'm not sure where my baby-hdmi to hdmi cable is...
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> I had a cell phone with that plug and got the cable
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> omg I found it and it's better than I remember
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> it's to DVI
<lanefu> yeah and say it woudlnt turn on because there was no power cable
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> Sheesh, why would anyone say no to some prime Broadcom driven refuse for these...
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<hyphop1> hi
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<hyphop> hi
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> lol what
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<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> good morning
<[TheBug]> Tonymac32: How did you get the precious?
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<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> "it just showed up" 🙂
<[TheBug]> sure, uh huh
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> i think he mentioned Tom
<[TheBug]> I been trying to purchase another for 2 weeks now and no reply back from Raxda guys
<[TheBug]> guess my money isn't green enough for them anymore
<[TheBug]> Have to start stocking up on RockPro64's instead
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> probably they have limited stock
<[TheBug]> hehe, I think he doesn't want to give me a penta hat ;p It's okay, I forgive him.
<[TheBug]> s/him/them
<ArmbianHelper> [TheBug] meant to say: hehe, I think he doesn't want to give me a penta hat ;p It's okay, I forgive them.
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<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> it was in my mailbox lol
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<Armbian-Discord> <k​prasadvnsi> got some more info on that AW859A Wifi/BT module.
<Armbian-Discord> <k​prasadvnsi> it uses a chipset 20U5622-02 made by USNISOC(formerly Spreadtrum Communications, Inc.)😭
<Armbian-Discord> <k​prasadvnsi> Its not Allwinner but even worse😭 😭
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> "even worse" 😦
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<stipa> how could something be worse than allwinner
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<PPA> Update to yesterday: hostapd works fine if I create my own more simple config file, so the problem was with Armbian's default config at /etc/hostapd.conf
<PPA> I don't care enough right now to figure out which setting causes the problem, but as I familiarise myself more with this whole business I may revisit it later and note the cause
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<Armbian-Discord> <k​prasadvnsi> Now I am thinking of checking that cheap-looking WiFI/BT module I got in my H616 smart TV box. maybe this UNISOC virus spread through every cheap wifi module shipped in TV boxes
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<nekomancer[m]> > <I​gorPec> "even worse" 😦
<nekomancer[m]> worse than allwinner? Is it legal? is it possible at all?
<stipa> everything is possible
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<hyphop> ;-)
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<hyphop> ls
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> Lol
<hyphop> #armbian hi
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> ls -l
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> 🙂
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> hi
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> Haha
<stipa> i've seeing "help" alot
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> Sudo nautilus 👀
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<hyphop> ps
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<lhartmann> Hello. I have found an issue while trying to run armbian on Orange Pi R1+, which is listed as WiP.
<lhartmann> I managed to fix it, a devicetree issue, and would like to hint the devs about it.
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> well, best is to provide a merge rqest directly
<lhartmann> Bug reports on WiP are deemed invalid on the site.
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> Right, what Igor is suggesting
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> Is to submit a patch as a PR that fixes it
<lhartmann> Ok. Thanks.
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> We just have too many boards, so the attention to any specific one that isn't on the supported list is extremely limited. The other place to discuss this would be the forums
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<lhartmann> Yup.. My solution in not clean though... MOre like taking an exe to it.
<lhartmann> Linux on OrangePi R1+ is not detecting the SD card, and drops to initramfs.
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> Haha well some of these boards need an axe 😂
<lhartmann> Disabling UHS modes on the controller, basically removing the lines from the devicetree, mad it work.
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<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> Yeah that's fine. One of 2 possibilities: the 1v8 regulator is not defined properly, or the board doesn't support UHS in reality
<lhartmann> The manufacturer-provided devicetree does not include UHS.
<lhartmann> but it also does not configure mtd properly...
<lhartmann> I noticed armbian showed MTD when I dropped to initramfs, so i compared the decompiled DTB
<lhartmann> Removed UHS from the armbian-provided devicetree, and it worked perfectly
<lhartmann> Now prepping the build environment to create the patch...
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<archetyp> --Pogacar ist vorne.
<ArmbianHelper> Pogacar is ahead. [de~>eng]
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<archetyp> --Hatte ich hier gesagt, dass von ihm noch viel zu erwarten ist?
<ArmbianHelper> Did I say here that much can still be expected from him? [de~>eng]
<archetyp> ;-)
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<archetyp> \o/
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<TRS-80> :)
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> Toll!
<TRS-80> IgorPec: I discovered the answer to life, the universe, and everything while in the shower last night
<TRS-80> (or at least perrennial funding issue we seem to keep mulling over)
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> Uhhhh
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> We're not starting an Armbian onlfriends
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> 42?
<TRS-80> Tonymac32 lol
<TRS-80> Maybe you guys should start a hardware company? If that is the only place where money can be made in this business?
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> If my microcontroller boards are any indication, probably a bad idea. ;-)
<nekomancer[m]> money can be made only by FRS or kind of state central bank.
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> Oh no, don't mention central banks, you'll set him off....
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> :-P
<TRS-80> nekomancer[m]: lol, technically correct, but let's not go down that rabbit hole, us mere mortals have to actually produce something of value to earn a living...
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> @lanefu I remembered to turn the TS-ADC on on the Tinker 2, so after I push tonight you'll have a temp readout. >.<
<TRS-80> Otherwise we are back to figuring out some other way to make the endeavour more sustainable
<TRS-80> The business I had for 20 years was a tough (competitive) business, but I stuck with it for a long time (even while deeply unhappy) because that is my nature. But eventually I realized there are easier ways to go about things, no need to keep beating your head against the wall.
<TRS-80> After our conversation yesterday, it seems to me like you are deeply bothered / unhappy about certain aspects of the industry IgorPec (and you are not wrong), but how can we turn that around into advantage? Or put ourselves in a better position swimming with the stream instead of against it?
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> well, deeply unhappy would be a bit too much.
<TRS-80> OK we all need to rant some times (I certainly do) maybe I took it too much to heart
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> certain things yes, but we still have some relationship growing in business direction and there is some income.
<TRS-80> maybe we need to expand / pursue that and maybe we need like a more sales guy (non technical) to pursue that role?
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> honest and effective sales personality is hard to find / build
<TRS-80> or maybe you become more like mentor, teaching men to fish, technical architect, and that free up a little time to pursue the more important strategic long term things which otherwise never get addressed
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> Honest and effective are nearly mutually exclusive terms
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> haha
<TRS-80> I dunno about that
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> In sales?
<TRS-80> but I suppose I am exceptional
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> Yes
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> Hahaha
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> well, internally it has to be honest, efffective to outside world
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> Ok
<TRS-80> I was top selling guy one place I worked, and I just told the truth
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> in that sense
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> And I did say almost
<TRS-80> but in general I suppose you are right
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> exactly, truth is valued and you get much further
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> but its a slow process
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> Yes
<TRS-80> why salesman have a bad rep in the common case
<TRS-80> well particular in industry / technical sales
<TRS-80> especially
<TRS-80> selling to muppets is another story
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> Ha
<TRS-80> they believe anything, don't get me started
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> here most of sales people are former engineers
<TRS-80> right
<TRS-80> you have to be knowledgeable in a technical sales
<TRS-80> and not have too much of The Knaack
<TRS-80> :)
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> I would say a distribution is not monetizable. A stable, easily configured, well documented build system, on the other hand
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> With a set of well-designed tools like a hardware configurator
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> It's part of the reason I'm not so concerned about pushing boards off a cliff for silly hardware issues. Opi4 has worst PCIe routing ever that will cause complaints? CSC, try again later
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> distribution if you sell yourself to a vendor like manjaro is monetizable
<TRS-80> yes we have to find (I apologize for corporate weenie speak in advance) our "business story" or "value proposition" or whatever
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> Yes, but I have seen their kernels. :-)
<archetech> Kernel: 5.12.16-1-MANJARO x86_64 bits: 64 Desktop: KDE Plasma 5.22.3
<archetech> Distro: Manjaro Linux
<archetech> heh
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> Value proposition would be the term
<TRS-80> trollol :D
<TRS-80> archetech: ^
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> manjaro troll 😉
<archetech> I like all things Arch
<TRS-80> our token Mnajaro troll XD
<TRS-80> /our/our very own/
<TRS-80> s/our/our very own/
<ArmbianHelper> TRS-80 meant to say: /our very own/our very own/
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> I liked arch when I used it, just didn't love it enough
<TRS-80> bah
<TRS-80> at least he doesn't complain about his system being broken all the time
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> *any more
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> he is installing it every day, severasl times
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> :-)
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> he doesn't notice
<TRS-80> :D
<archetech> Arch = LFS with pacman heh
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> I want to start reorganizing some stuff and start getting a handle on "local variables" in the build system. Of course I couldn't even organize the untracked userpatches folder without a fight, so...
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> everything is LFS and open source and FOSS and ...
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> :-P
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> back to topic. build system, yes
<TRS-80> I must admit, I tried understanding the build system once or twice and gave up after that
<TRS-80> would some documentation kill us?
<TRS-80> like, a single high level overview, and then some more stuff inline?
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> documenting this properly is a serious job.
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> So a lot of the families have variables in the sources files that are poorly documented/special
<TRS-80> problem is, it's totally impenitrable to a newcomer IMO
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> I haven't tried to move them to the board config files (rockchip64)
<TRS-80> unless you have a pretty good case of The Knaack
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> totally agree. it expanded and we are failing to keep it simple
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> I have a debilitating case, to the point I can't work with other people with the knack
<TRS-80> coming from perspective of "the self documenting editor" (a meme, but true) it's really glaring to me
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> which is necesarely that people will use it. there are enough of complex systems out there, which we can't compete with
<TRS-80> we could likely gain so much help just by taking the time to document some things
<TRS-80> right, especially for our "market segment"
<TRS-80> should be a little easier
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> and finish what is 1/2 done, or done lousy
<TRS-80> in other words, our ducumentation not fitting to our value proposition
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> the-goind is fixing a lot of such troubles nowayss
<archetech> Thats true cant decypher the builder and its relation to github
<archetech> all the configs ...too many boards
<TRS-80> I was here like 2 years before I realized that Armbian is actually a build system
<TRS-80> :D
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> this is absence of marketing communication
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> 😉
<archetech> and the builder bash is atrocious
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> or lets say lack of it
<TRS-80> precisely my point
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> Lol
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> bask is just fine.
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> bash
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> I think he means the code structure
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> Not the use of shell scripts
<TRS-80> well, I could never comprehend it enough to make up my mind?
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> well, ain't coupled best way, yeah
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> I can comprehend it, I'm just afraid to modify it O_o
<archetech> spaghetti bash
<TRS-80> I was actually thingking on some way to include docstrings in my own personal bash functions in order to make them easily extractable to other formats or for lookup, etc.
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> big changes needs lots of planning and agteemene at this stage
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> Well that was part of what I was talking about, starting from the top down might be a bit rough. If we go from the board level back we might be able to tidy things up a bit better
* stipa is seeing there are some network experts on YT putting wifi access points in metal network cabinets...
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> Yeah, so for each board/family, start eliminating/encapsulating board/family exceptions
<archetech> Like I said if ya cleaned house and focused on half the boards could clean up the builder bash and have more folks helping
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> Then we can make changes a bit more system wide without explosions
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> well, that should already be possible
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> with changes from myy
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> but its not documented well
<TRS-80> I think a nice long, not rushed, strategic discussion (on the forum, where everyone (developers I mean) can weigh in) is the only real way to come to consensus and get everyone on board of some major restructuring effort
<archetech> all ya do is look at image download counts
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> Right
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> We track those?
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> Oh
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> ;-)
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> orangepizero is on the top for past several years
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> Yeah, like the cavalier of sbc's
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> with best wifi 😉
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> Sigh
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> before we start breaking build scruit. hw configurator
<TRS-80> just proves that good engineering is not necessary for business success
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> which i hope we will get some funding, which will open options
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> I find OPi to be a politically charged issue. I won't talk about it
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> business and engineering, two worlds
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> TRS-80 i propose you add ideas to Contributors part of the forum, its easiery to keep things
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> here it flows and can be lost
<TRS-80> yeah
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> i have to attend some family things and will be back l8r
<archetyp> --Ich werde nächsten Monat 5 Euro an Armbian spenden, sorry mehr ist vorerst nicht möglich.
<ArmbianHelper> I will donate 5 euros to Armbian next month, sorry more is not possible for the time being. [de~>eng]
<buZz> very cool
<archetyp> :-)
<TRS-80> good man!
<TRS-80> the more beer IgorPec gets the less he yell at people :)
<archetyp> lol
<stipa> got to feed the beast
<stipa> to keep it calm
<Armbian-Discord> <l​anefu> Yeah opi zero is king of downloadd
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<stipa> the guy is like fixing a messy network room by putting everything into a cabinet, at the end he puts wifi ap into that cabinet too, so at the end he made things worse due to the weaker wifi signal, what an idiot
<stipa> what a waste of money
<stipa> and what's best of all women like it tidy
<stipa> i bet they won't be sticking ethernet cable into a smartphone
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> "for just 5 Euro a month, you too can sponsor an angry Armbian Dev."
<Armbian-Discord> <l​anefu> Man you all have been noisey today
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> Meh
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> So a project manager has been requiring cameras on for a set of 4 meetings. Today is day 3. I am wearing a Pantera shirt
<stipa> lol
<stipa> some people don't like cameras
<Armbian-Discord> <l​anefu> Re: Armbian builder refactor
<TRS-80> I am trying to summarize relevant points but that is such a hairy monster that goes in all conversation directions
<TRS-80> more toilet / shower time is needed
<TRS-80> so I start with one small idea first (at forums)
<Armbian-Discord> <l​anefu> I've been looking at that "fragments" framework on @rpardini fork. And it's potentially a good path forward once everyone understands the initial concept. In early stages of brainstorming a phased approached to integrating via a smaller initial PR
<Armbian-Discord> <l​anefu> And it can be treated as a bolt on initially
<Armbian-Discord> <l​anefu> Then components can be gradually refactored
<TRS-80> it seems to me right now there are at least 2-3 potentially parallel competing ideas and implementations that I feel strongly should be sorted out and decided on one way to proceed
<TRS-80> unfortunately it will take everyone to first comprehend all the other solutions and then agree which one is best
<TRS-80> or how they can work together
<Armbian-Discord> <l​anefu> Yeah.... explaining and comprehending is the hardest part
<TRS-80> right ... human part
<TRS-80> listening to the other guys ideas
<Armbian-Discord> <l​anefu> Well even grokking is hard
<TRS-80> but I think its important to take more time and get the direction and strategy right, but everyone want to seem to rush off into implementation
<stipa> you never know which idea will be popular
<TRS-80> stipa: That's the Google approach, many different competing teams / ideas within same company. Unfortunately we don't have their kind of resources (not even close)
<Armbian-Discord> <l​anefu> Yeah need to start packing the different "ideas" into milestones and roadmaps for everyone to truly understand
<stipa> if you don't grasp them all the one you didn't will probably be a winner
<TRS-80> I think forum discussion should be first step
<TRS-80> but that's because I can't even read anything on that fucking website
<TRS-80> to me Attlassian is fo implementation, anyway, which comes after consensus building
<TRS-80> (so I don't get started on JavaShit modern web yadda yadda)
<Armbian-Discord> <l​anefu> I don't care where the milestones are written
<Armbian-Discord> <l​anefu> Still need them
<TRS-80> consensus, architecting before milestones; or maybe I don't understand milestones have some specific meaning in this dev context?
<Armbian-Discord> <l​anefu> A markdown file with explanation, examples and a PLAN is what has to be presentrd
<TRS-80> is milestone like an end goal?
<TRS-80> sounds like a progress point to me
<Armbian-Discord> <l​anefu> Yes progress points
<TRS-80> well I guess those are the same, one being a subset of the other actually
<Armbian-Discord> <l​anefu> Like for a big project like this we might try to just cross off one milestone per armbian release
<TRS-80> I still keep going back to consesnus building, talking about the differing approaches (re: refactoring of build scripts which are in fact the heart of the project)
<TRS-80> forum thread best for that IMO
<Armbian-Discord> <l​anefu> But if people don't share some sort of draft of a plan with their idea before conversations it will never get passed the first detail
<Armbian-Discord> <l​anefu> You're suggesting design by committee
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<Armbian-Discord> <l​anefu> Im saying bring draft of plans and discuss the different ones and then choose and refine collectively
<TRS-80> there are only handful of people who even know enough about the build system (I am not one of them) to have an authoratative opinion on the subject
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<Armbian-Discord> <l​anefu> Yeah what's your point?
<Armbian-Discord> <l​anefu> Sorry not trying to sound grumpy
<Armbian-Discord> <l​anefu> But im grumpy lol
<TRS-80> I think it's important to get this refactor right, given the extremely scarce resources we have to work with
<TRS-80> to go in the right direction which will actually improve and simplify things
<Armbian-Discord> <l​anefu> Ill take a medium idea with a plan over a great idea without one
<TRS-80> > bring draft of plans and discuss the different ones and then choose and refine collectively
<TRS-80> yes I agree
<TRS-80> not bure bikeshedding, seen too much of that o nforums
<Armbian-Discord> <l​anefu> Its unrealistic to think any big rework can happen big-bang style
<TRS-80> crib death of anything useful lol
<TRS-80> /bure/pure/
<Armbian-Discord> <l​anefu> Whats bikeshedding
<TRS-80> I'm actually surprised you never heard that, working in the industry. Maybe it's more a programming than dev ops term I guess.
<Armbian-Discord> <l​anefu> Im just a computerist
<TRS-80> it;s a computer term though
<Armbian-Discord> <l​anefu> Yeah my world is around enterprise and web softrware development lifecycles more than industrial or dedp enginnering
<Armbian-Discord> <l​anefu> Oh man
<Armbian-Discord> <l​anefu> Yeah that def lol
<TRS-80> :)
<TRS-80> really paints a picture, eh?
<Armbian-Discord> <l​anefu> But honestly agile helps minimize that to a degree
<TRS-80> memeing aside, I can see that
<Armbian-Discord> <l​anefu> People like to talk about things they know about
<TRS-80> I dunno man, lots of people also like to bullshit
<TRS-80> but those are 2 separate things
<TRS-80> yeah you are right
<TRS-80> anyway, yeah, hence bikeshedding :)
<TRS-80> OK so I have a direction to nudge this potentially hairy discussion, which I will do in forums, thanks for help in clarifying
<TRS-80> and then another smaller idea
<Armbian-Discord> <l​anefu> The forum has a vote feature too
<Armbian-Discord> <l​anefu> For our definition of supported i wrote my interpretation posted in a gist and then put it to a vote
<Armbian-Discord> <l​anefu> After making some tweaks from feedback
<TRS-80> I just realized that https://forum.armbian.com/topic/16933-armbian-config-rfc-ideas/ is actually discussing armbian-config refactor, not build scripts. Is there a similar post about build scripts? Is there even an Attlassian issue on that or any movement / motivation? Or are people just individually working on pieces of that completely separate from one another?
<TRS-80> I think I missed that, nice
<TRS-80> I dunno, I guess I like forum threads (and their analogue, mailing lists) for hashing out consensus
<Armbian-Discord> <l​anefu> Yeah armbian-config different ball of wax
<TRS-80> I know
<Armbian-Discord> <l​anefu> As far as refactoring build. No objective conversations
<TRS-80> OK I guess that is the thread I will make then
<TRS-80> as I am seeing (from sidelines) like 2-3 differeing competing implentations
<TRS-80> and effortsd
<TRS-80> maybe they are not copeting, I dunno, but this way we can discuss
<Armbian-Discord> <l​anefu> https://github.com/armbian/build/pull/2807
<TRS-80> and bring attention, to each other work
<Armbian-Discord> <l​anefu> Probably most productive conversation
<TRS-80> yes that is definitely one of ones I was referring to, after stumbling across it the other day
<TRS-80> also going is working on packagine, & etc...
<TRS-80> then there is desktop refactor (which touches build system)
<TRS-80> etc...
<TRS-80> anyway OK I think I got a better idea now, thanks for being sounding board
<Armbian-Discord> <l​anefu> I wish i could understand what the-going is going for
<TRS-80> I just think we all need to step back and try and look at what everyone else is working on and see how it can all fit together
<TRS-80> as it looks a bit like a train wreck from my pov atm
<TRS-80> lanefu: me too but somehow it seems cool? lol
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<TRS-80> it is on my bucket list to understand more about Debian packaging, but I am no where near that yet and there be dragons
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> 😑
<Armbian-Discord> <r​neese> ?
<Armbian-Discord> <r​neese> where we going and when
<Armbian-Discord> <r​neese> is it paid
<Armbian-Discord> <r​neese> lol
<TRS-80> OK so the main initiatives I am linking / bringing attention to in my post will be:
<TRS-80> 1. rpardini fragment / hook idea
<TRS-80> 2. Myy desktop and application group architecture (or is this what we implemented already?) rneese?
<TRS-80> 3. 3. going package management stuff
<TRS-80> plus some general comments from IgorPec and Balbes about long logic chains & etc.
<TRS-80> anything else? I am sure I am missing something
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> i will need an hour to read all thi s;)
<TRS-80> IgorPec: don't worry I am bringing it to a point in a thread I am writing right now
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<Armbian-Discord> <l​anefu> thanks TRS-80
<TRS-80> Cheers. Hopefully it becomes a productive discussion.
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<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> Lolz
<TRS-80> shut up lol
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> ;-)
<TRS-80> you weigh in, instead of making snarky coments in IRC you homo
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> Easy killer
<TRS-80> :p
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<lhartmann> Nope, I just don't understand enought of kernel armbian/uboot/kernel builds to be able to disable UHS...
<lhartmann> sd-uhs-sdr50; and sd-uhs-sdr104; need to be removed from mmc@ff500000 so as to get OrangePi R1+ to boot properly, but I have no clue to to it it from the build system.
<nekomancer[m]> VHS!
<archetech> lhartmann: its done in /tec/modprob.d
<archetech> etc/
<archetech> blacklist it
<lhartmann> Blacklisting devicetree properties via modprobe.d?
<archetech> UAS anyway
* TRS-80 seems to recall some UAS mitigation
<TRS-80> if that's the same thing, it's been in Armbian since forever but maybe you are talking about something different
<lhartmann> UHS not UAS
<archetech> ah UHS is a sdcard thing
<lhartmann> ultra-high-speed
<lhartmann> Yup.
<lhartmann> It does not work on OrangePi R1+
<archetech> why u wan it off if its faster
* TRS-80 vaguely recalls reading something about that, too
<TRS-80> not implemented properly or something maybe
<archetech> yeah may need a patch for that board (guess)
<lhartmann> There are 4 instances of add-board-orangepi-r1plus.patch on armbian/build
<lhartmann> The include from rk3328-nanopi-r2-rev00.dts, which enables uhs.
<lhartmann> Buit then the kernel can't init my SD cards (Sandisk, SDHC32GB and SDXC128GB).
<lhartmann> Drops to initramfs shell.
<lhartmann> Hacking it away from the final dtb (dtc decompile, edit, recompile) gets the system booting.
<lhartmann> As far as I understand, I need to append this to the existing patch: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/M7kxbmrVvt/
<lhartmann> But I don't really know how.
<lhartmann> patching a .patch file feels weird...
<TRS-80> There are some ways to include your own customizations
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> well
<lhartmann> Built a couple of images just now.
<lhartmann> userpatches folder?
<TRS-80> yes something like that
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> if there are more patches for r1 try to make one
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> there are different approaches to get it done
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> easiest and most dirty way is to ... just run build with CREATE_PATCHES="yes" change in sources and add newly created patch from output/patches
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> but you have to pay attention to the order of patches /by name)
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> advanced way, more work, is to get an overview on patches and remove / merge them into one. By hand
<nekomancer[m]> but how to get access to already patched sources before compilation?
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> there are more patches because we maintain different kernels
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> but they are usually almost the same, one for kernel 5.10, one for 5.12
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> neko: CREATE_PATCHES=yes stops at already patches soruces
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> and waits for yout to do something, then when you proceed, patch is made
<nekomancer[m]> stops, then edit, then run same command again?
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> no, it stops and says "do you changes to the source and press enter when you are done"
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> it proceed building as well
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> and if it builds and you are fine with it, you copy patch that was made to the patch (sub)dire and send upstream
<lhartmann> I'll try CREATE_PATCHES....
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> yes, that is handy function. it was designed for such changes
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> but in case we have a lot of patches made this way, we need to merge them. This has to be done manully at the moment
<nekomancer[m]> good software.
<nekomancer[m]> thank you for it, igorpec!
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> not just my work
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> but yeah, we made quite a nice tool
<nekomancer[m]> you did!
<archetech> how bout ya just leave the dang thing out
<archetech> rk3328-nanopi-r2-rev00.dts, which enables uhs.
<archetech> <lhartmann> Buit then the kernel can't init my SD cards (Sandisk, SDHC32GB and SDXC128GB).
<lhartmann> nanopi-r2 and orangepi-r1+ are VERY similar.
<lhartmann> Pretty much everithing comes from nanopi's devicetree definition.
<lhartmann> *everything
<nekomancer[m]> why there no PnP.
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> well, keep in mind it could be wrong. many device tree defs are simply copy paste without checking
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> many -> some
<lhartmann> The original author of the patch got it working, and supposedly checked most of it.
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> ok
<lhartmann> I assume he used a slower SD, so he did not hit the same issue I am having.
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> yes, that is possible.
<archetech> IgorPec: I read your post at odoid about panfrost being bad code seriously?
<archetech> then you link to oiabf repo which sucks and its for ubu 18 sheesh
<archetech> need to get with the times man
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> you are the only person i know to claim it works
<archetech> been working for a year and always improved to this day
<archetech> just make your own mesa-git and leave oiabf alone
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> you are more like a hacker, not developer and certainly not a user
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> we have different perspectives what is stable, what works, etc
<archetech> yup but dont post false info
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> likewise
<archetech> strit tobetter-ubu jmdr-arch chewiit would all take same position I am
<archetech> all devs that have excellent builds of mesa
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> what you are trying to tell me?
<archetech> I ofc build my own
<archetech> 1 that you gave a fals report and 2 the repost is based on a very old ubu18 and mesa
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> that i need to use arch linux?
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> i didn't make any false reports
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> just what i have seen
<archetech> it fasle for today maybe its true that old crusty ubu 18 oaibf
<archetech> false
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> today situation is certainly different
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> but i didn't check anything today, so i can't say
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> for roday
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> todfay
<archetech> telling you try mesa-git and 5.13 and 21.04/21.10
<archetech> ya know like todays stuff not old
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> today i have other things to do, but i am sure things will get fixed
<archetech> ok just so ya up to speed
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> arch speed?
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> where things breaks for other reasons?
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> but mesa works
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> There's no value in chasing non-lts kernels
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> tell this to arch user, impossible
<nekomancer[m]> <Armbian-Discord "<T​onymac32> There's no value in"> upstreaming?
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> I had good luck with Arch, but I was also using it on XU4 so it was massively old because of the bad upstream support at the time
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> I have no experience with anything they pin to mainline
<archetech> lts can be kept current thats a non-argument
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> well, fighting on bleeding edge is in any case totally useless
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> Upstreamig sure, but that's not what the images we provide users are for
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> And you need to pull a clean kernel with no patches to do that
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> Proposal fix tested-by "person with massively modified kernel" Instantly rejected
<archetech> your "policy" of stability is hurting your users in some situ's
<archetech> thats #3
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> Hurting them how? This is a free image
<archetech> whats "free" got to do with anything here
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> not at all. they can pick up latest kernel with latest userspace at any time
<archetech> you can maintain up to date pkgs or not I dont care but it hurts users for no reason except stubbornness
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> arch call that stable, we call it experimantal
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> I want to know in what way we are "hurting" anyone
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> Are people compelled by law to use Armbian in some places?
<archetech> with your stability at all costs
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> And what damage does this cause?
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> stability is something people are dying for.
<archetech> well if I install your ubu 18 I get horrible old perf vs if you kept it up
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> its very hard to acgive
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> Ok, so don't install it
<archetech> how bout you do your JOB!
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> That's not hurting the user, that's at worst being uncompetitive.
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> our job?
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> My job is designing sensors and actuators. What do you think my job is?
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> My job is tinkering networking switches
<archetech> ha nice try
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> Nice try what? You haven't made an argument yet
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> So I haven't had to try to refute anything
<archetech> you know what job im refering to
<archetech> mr armbian "DEV"
<archetech> what a joke
<[TheBug]> *sigh* this again..
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> LOL
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> The one where I help maintain free images for you to complain about in my free time?
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> At no cost to you or anyone else? :-)
<archetech> ya cant take criticism at all here thats so sad
<[TheBug]> Criticism should be contstructively posed, I think that is the point you often fail at in these diatribes you go on.
<archetech> how bout your right we'll drop oaibf and pull in tobetters ubu mesa that would hurt your pride though
<[TheBug]> I think we all want things to be better, but you shouldn't assume your way is the only way.
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> how about not dealing with this at all ?
<lanefu> TRS-80: thanks again for the cat herding on the forum
<archetech> its free so nobody can say anything about what you do eh what crap
<lanefu> glad you're feeling better archetech
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> remember to tell your friend to fix low level instability before marking work they added nothing too (mesa)
<archetech> i feel great
<archetech> esp now heh
<archetech> got my point out dont care if its rtaken in or acted on
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> what was your point again?
<[TheBug]> SO now we are -$20 for the time we spent listening to you get out your frustrations, so now you are getting a product for less than free.
<archetech> that you guys can do better
<lhartmann> YAY! SUCCESS!
<archetech> and its easily fixed
<nekomancer[m]> 😖
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> Lanefu if you want to merge Tinker 2 as WIP I think tomorrow will be fine, My from scratch device tree isn't complete but it has most stuff running
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> we can be better, iyeah
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> Hartman cool
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> Oops missed an n, sorry
<archetech> lhartmann: tell us how ya did it
<archetech> Sysinfo for 'blfs-n2p': Running inside KDE Plasma 5.22.3 on Linux From Scratch aarch64-10.1-systemd powered by Linux 5.13.0-1-ARCH, CPU: Unknown model at 2016.0-2400.0/2400 MHz, RAM: 1547/3700 MB, Storage: 12/43 GB, 166 procs, 1.99h up
<archetech> heh
<lhartmann> CREATE_PATCHES=yes, uboot needs no change, updated .dts for the kernel as mentioned before.
<archetech> well done
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> archetech: please stop spamming with this junk
<nekomancer[m]> 5.13.0-1!
<archetech> yeah for today
<archetech> show peeps some creds ya know
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> he must be a true expert to run kernel 5.13
<lhartmann> The build tool created new patch on top files created by patch/kernel/rockchip64-current/add-board-orangepi-r1plus.patch
<lhartmann> In order to merge should I add this patch separatelly or somehow join it to add-board*.patch?
<archetech> but is it running on fast setting or stepped down lhartmann
<lhartmann> it is RUNNING, it wasn't
<archetech> lol ok so speed not the goal yet
archetech was kicked from #armbian by lanefu [here's that response you keep baiting us for]
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> Yeah either the board isn't actually able to toggle the UHS voltage, the regulator is set up wrong, or the signal paths are so screwed up it fails to operate at speed. I don't have one so no clue. Too many other boards with interesting personalities
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> :-)
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<archetech> lol lanefu
<archetech> I hear ya
<TRS-80> ae should put archetech in a room with tkaiser (who thinks we are reckless) and let them sort it out
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> Hahahahahahahha
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> Omg
<TRS-80> s/ae/we/
<ArmbianHelper> TRS-80 meant to say: we should put archetech in a room with tkaiser (who thinks we are reckless) and let them sort it out
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> T and arch in the octagon
<lanefu> archetech: is master blaster
<lanefu> tunderdome
<lanefu> s/tunderdome/thunderdome
<ArmbianHelper> lanefu meant to say: thunderdome
<archetech> you guys are the opposite of wreckless
<TRS-80> point being, opinions differ
<lanefu> concrete condoms beatch
<lhartmann> hdparm reports 23MB/s from the card. Not sure how fast it was supposed to be.
<archetech> TRS-80: master of the obvious
<lanefu> lhartmann: that's a pretty realistic speed for an SDcard
<TRS-80> archetech: and yet you persist?
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> 25 MB/s is the theoretical.maximum for non-UHS modes
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> So that is good
<lhartmann> good-ish
<archetech> I persist in my right to my opinion yes
<lhartmann> UHS would be best, but...
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> Well it's what you'll get lol
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> Honestly I don't trust that the board is even actually capable of it
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> Which SoC is it? RK3328?
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<lhartmann> Yup. RK3328
<TRS-80> grandma something something honey something vinegar something
<archetech> I think Tonymac is right
<archetech> 3328 is kinda old
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> The SoC can do it
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> I'm more worried about the board it was put on
<lhartmann> It is for a home-firewall. Dual gigabit interfaces.
<archetech> sure makes sense
<lhartmann> Don't really need fast SD
<archetech> nope ya dont then
<archetech> but thats just my opinion
<archetech> services in ram are running the nics
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<lhartmann> And I actually got here following a rabbithole of trying to get OpenWRT working. LOL
<lanefu> haha i've seen some howtos for that but they were pretty brute force
<lhartmann> Using nanopi-r2s image with this new DTB works.
<lanefu> i gave up on trying to port VyOS ontop of armbian
<archetech> try ipfire
<nekomancer[m]> ipfire?
<lanefu> ipfire is kinda dated isn't it? doesnt use nftables etc right?
<archetech> nope still goin used to be IPCop
<archetech> based on you guessed it....LFS!
<lanefu> yeah i've been using ansible and firewalld
<lanefu> but really i just use my edgerouter 6p
<archetech> great web panel somehwat simple install/config vs others
<archetech> yeah edgerouter why I havent bought one idk]
<archetech> kept waiting for the low cost alt I guess
<TRS-80> coming from dd-wrt I am really enjoying OpenWrt
<TRS-80> it's much more like normal GNU/Linux
<TRS-80> and organized, and documented
<archetech> openwrt is nice for an old dlink -linksys box
<lanefu> archetech: edge router lite and edge router x are hella cheap
<lanefu> and can still firewall a gig of traffic
<lanefu> BUT if you want to use them for traffic shaping, youd probably be unhappy
<archetech> shaping for home office ya thats pain for nothing
<lanefu> but i like them because i can do zone firewalls and still have a sane cli
* archetech googs edgerouter
<lanefu> and shoehorn some mips debian packages
<lanefu> i actually run haproxy on mine
<archetech> but its old
<archetech> lite 3 is
<archetech> gimme sumthin current equiv
<lanefu> EdgeRouter 4
<archetech> lol
<lanefu> i run its brother the 69
<lanefu> 6P
<lanefu> i do 2 port LACP to my switch and get 2 gig sync throughput routing
<archetech> $180 newegg
<archetech> dual homed failover nice
<lanefu> and it can do bgp and ospf etc
<archetech> I like to sep my wless to its own subnet so my lan is safe
<archetech> and have a 3rd sub for web server
<nekomancer[m]> and you need bgp?
<archetech> in a honey pot kill zone heh
<archetech> get them foreigners
<archetech> at their own game
<lanefu> use BGP when in IPSEC to amazon
<lanefu> but been messing with OSPF for my wireguard routes
<lanefu> BGP looks more mature for IPV6 stuff tho
<archetech> oh guess what day it is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vs5QJi-dX-4
<TRS-80> anyone else getting some (maybe cert?) error on lanefu link?
<TRS-80> nvm there it goes
* TRS-80 needs to learn more about networking (and so many other things)
<lanefu> cert error? i'm insulted
<TRS-80> hey, it's like the shoemakers family... no shoes
<TRS-80> brb
<nekomancer[m]> <TRS-80 "anyone else getting some (maybe "> I have connection error in firefox but see a picture in chrome