Werner changed the topic of #armbian to: armbian - Linux for ARM development boards | www.armbian.com | Github: github.com/armbian | Commits: #armbian-commits | Developer talk: #armbian-devel | Forum/Twitter feed: #armbian-rss | Type 'help' for help | Logs: -> irc.armbian.com
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<Armbian-Discord> <k​prasadvnsi> 😬
<Armbian-Discord> <k​prasadvnsi> This makes Orange Pi look good 🤣
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<Armbian-Discord> <l​anefu> Hmm we need a nice way of daying not our problem for this https://www.zdnet.com/article/nasty-linux-systemd-security-bug-revealed/
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<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> oh, this time not ours 😉
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<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> "Most of these boards are of such design quality that this is of no concern. They crash on their own regardless of installed softwares"
<Tables> Exhibit A: Rock64
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<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> Too bad. If they still get their tasks done so what
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> You aren't paying for their time, you're paying for their productivity. If they aren't delivering, you fire them
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<nekomancer[m]> KPI, KPI, KPI über alless!
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<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> Der Besten oder Nichts.
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<archetyp> --Was geht denn hier heute ab?
<ArmbianHelper> What's going on here today? [de~>eng]
<Armbian-Discord> <R​ichNeese> ok guys we really need people to test builds as we are working on a new release
<Armbian-Discord> <R​ichNeese> we are building new images and we have more desktops that you can slao build from the builder
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<Armbian-Discord> <R​ichNeese> alot has gone into this major revamp of armbian . Please help keep armbian going
<archetyp> --Ich helfe Armbian zu jeder Zeit, weil Armbian hat sich als alternativlos erwiesen.
<ArmbianHelper> I help Armbian at any time, because there has been no alternative to Armbian. [de~>eng]
<archetyp> --Und ich weis wie hart ihr daran arbeitet.
<ArmbianHelper> And I know how hard you work on it. [de~>eng]
<archetyp> :)
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<Armbian-Discord> <R​ichNeese> ok brb door
<[TheBug]> wb hipboi
<[TheBug]> G'day all you invisable people on Discord
<archetyp> lol
<[TheBug]> stipa: you awful quiet over there today, you feeling alright?
<stipa> [TheBug]: nah, i'm just spamming another channel
<[TheBug]> sorry to hear you are not feeling well.
<[TheBug]> ;p
<stipa> you know what
<[TheBug]> I know a lot of things, but I would hate to hazzard a guess about what goes through your mind
<stipa> is there a keyboard + mouse that connect to the actuall wifi network?
<[TheBug]> yes, it's called bluetooth
<[TheBug]> lol
<stipa> i mean, wifi AC
<[TheBug]> not in as far as you are asking but effectively thats the idea of bluetooth
<stipa> i see no one did aynthing with esp32
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<[TheBug]> I mean it would seem a bit redundant is my point
<[TheBug]> you would have to have a very specific use case for that
<[TheBug]> like a niche product
<stipa> you're right, it seems so
<[TheBug]> most things that use that type of technology just provide their own custom receiver
<stipa> but if you share same keyboard and mouse and machines are far apart
<[TheBug]> rememebr 2.4Ghz dongles exist
<stipa> something like networked keyboard ans mouse are viable
<[TheBug]> thast effectively same as wifi just using custom encoding and crap
<[TheBug]> At that point you can get some product and do it at the software level
<[TheBug]> there are software out there that allow you to share your mouse and keyboard across different devices
<[TheBug]> done over network
<stipa> yeah, Barrier
<stipa> but the point is i can't for example carry that keyboard and mouse in room two walls apart
<stipa> the signal would be lost
<[TheBug]> um
<[TheBug]> not to be silly
<[TheBug]> but just get a RPi zero + battery and connect keyboard mouse to it and use that to be your intermediate
<[TheBug]> or OPi zero
<[TheBug]> or whatever
<[TheBug]> just set it in the room with yuou
<[TheBug]> with RF wireless mouse keyboard combo
<[TheBug]> if done right you may even be able to put it between two rooms and retain access
<[TheBug]> though probably wouldn't game over somethign like that
<stipa> yeah, seems like a fast solution
<stipa> it should be something that wastes low power
<[TheBug]> I mean
<[TheBug]> assuming you have a reasonable software for linux
<[TheBug]> you could probably even use like a LicheePi Zero
<[TheBug]> things tiny and uses very little power
<[TheBug]> I can have it run under min load on a batter pack for 24+ hours
<[TheBug]> just an example
<[TheBug]> thats with its wifi adapter on it and USB exposed being powere via gpio pin
<[TheBug]> only con is I think you have to have a powere usb hub for licheepi zedro
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<[TheBug]> making maybe Opi zero a little better option
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<stipa> yeah
<stipa> i honestly don't know how to do it low poer and with the off shelf software and hardware
<stipa> low poer means cli only
<stipa> and
<stipa> for example, if i want to use it on a TV box that has no DE it'll be hard via "Barrier"
<stipa> it's a mess
<stipa> if one would emulate somehow that it's connected to some virtual usb ports on all machines then it would click and move on all machines equally
<stipa> mindfuck
<[TheBug]> um
<[TheBug]> I can't remember the product
<[TheBug]> but LTT advertises for it every so often
<[TheBug]> supposed to have android / ios apps I think
<[TheBug]> and you can use your mouse keyboard across ipad, phone, mac, windows
<[TheBug]> but again still may cost something / and or have other barriers
<stipa> that one is free
<stipa> hmm, maybe, yeah, virtual keyboard
<stipa> ok, keyboard that is sending keystrokes via network to a computer where barrier server is sinstalled
<stipa> and barrier has to think that that keyboard is actually connected to that machine where server is
<stipa> so there has to be some kind of a server/driver that linux recognizes as a keyboard
<stipa> to which keyboard is connected as a client
<stipa> via network
<BCMM> stipa: i take it "no DE" also means no X? Kodi directly on GBM or something?
<stipa> BCMM: yeah
<stipa> i guess solution for that would be something like a Kodi Barrier plugin
<stipa> there's simply no point in having 165 keyboards
<stipa> one is enough
<stipa> wherever i look ther's one collecting dust...
<[TheBug]> hehe
<[TheBug]> how I am starting to feel about SBCs lol
* [TheBug] looks to the left, then to the right, then straight ahead
<[TheBug]> 15 in view
<[TheBug]> :Z
<BCMM> stipa: is it a just for occasional use sort of thing? like not *much* typing?
<BCMM> because the Kodi remote control app for Android (Kore) lets you send text input over wifi
<stipa> well, machines are piling up
<stipa> IOT is taking it's tool, and buying keyboards make no sense
<stipa> and devices with linux are so cheap that they'll be everywhere
<stipa> therefore need for keyboard and mice everywhere
<stipa> toll*
<stipa> BCMM: no Android here
<nekomancer[m]> share keyboard via LoRaWAN proto.
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<nekomancer[m]> 1000x devices can receive your keyboard!
<stipa> nekomancer[m]: is there such a project?
<nekomancer[m]> no (I hope)
<stipa> i heard lora can go a long distance
<stipa> yeah, but
<stipa> nekomancer[m]: that hardware isn't everywhere in consumer stuff
<nekomancer[m]> yes. but speed can be a seconds to every bit
<BCMM> stipa: i'm also wondering how complicated whatever API that app uses is
<stipa> it's i guess low power wifi
<stipa> it's marketed to embedded market
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<stipa> BCMM: you mean Kodi?
<BCMM> stipa: yeah, i mean the Kodi RPC that Kore (the Android app) uses to send text
<stipa> so, what
<stipa> it uses android phone as a keboard and mouse?
<stipa> to control Kodi?
<BCMM> not sure about mouse. i think it just does a dpad (cos the interface isn't really designed for mouse anyway)
<stipa> yeah, i see now, seems like that
<stipa> yeah, there's no need for mouse with Kodi
<BCMM> but i guess you're looking for something more general than just for kodi boxes, right?
<stipa> ok
<stipa> if it helps, my remote from tv works with it
<stipa> like play, pause
<stipa> power off
<stipa> if i power off the tv the libreelec with kodi also powers off
<stipa> so it's some TV remote standard maybe
<BCMM> that's probably HDMI-CEC
<stipa> yeah, maybe
<stipa> dunno, but it's probably not something kodi came up with
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<[TheBug]> yeah thats CEC
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<stipa> nekomancer[m]: yeah, LoRaWAN has good signal range
<stipa> much better than keyboard and mouse wireless thing
<stipa> good battery life
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<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> Extreme slow transmission due to legal limits on transmit duty cycle
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> But yes
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> For slow polling devices, excellent
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<stipa> too bad it's not compatible with wifi
<stipa> totally different frequencies
<stipa> around 800 Mhz
<stipa> therefore bigger signal range
<stipa> tbh, maybe range sux
<stipa> i didn't try that tech
<stipa> but when you employ it in some installation spanning kilometers it's to late to go back even if it sux
<stipa> what will probably happen to everybody
<stipa> but hey, maybe signal boosters could help...
<stipa> let us burn everybody with radiation
<stipa> will say it's global warming if someone asks
<stipa> we'll *
<stipa> it'll be called "IOT BURN EFFECT"
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<[TheBug]> um its a very low bandwidth connection
<[TheBug]> your only going be passing kb/s
<[TheBug]> thats why it goes a very long way
<[TheBug]> so signal degradation doesn't hurt it as much because the amountyour actually transmitting isn't that big
<Tables> Is LoRaWAN low latency? Are the kernel modules FOSS or blobs?
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> Ask Sentence, they own everything
<Armbian-Discord> <R​ichNeese> its low power long range
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> Semtech
<stipa> dunno
<Armbian-Discord> <R​ichNeese> but it depends on the protocol you use
<stipa> there's a word open source associated with it but is it really idk
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> Yeah I'm not completely sure
<Armbian-Discord> <R​ichNeese> its basicly a low power long range vhf/uhf radio
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> The radios are not open, you tell it what to send and magic
<stipa> like dev software isn't but i guess everything below that is blobs
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> But they can be interfaced to microcontrollers/etc so
<Armbian-Discord> <R​ichNeese> they have lora texters
<Armbian-Discord> <R​ichNeese> that do group texting
<Armbian-Discord> <R​ichNeese> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDU0xj9oBuM
<Armbian-Discord> <R​ichNeese> I am wating on the boards to do this
<Armbian-Discord> <R​ichNeese> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqAsWtIjHUY
<Armbian-Discord> <R​ichNeese> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_dI1PNdPa4
<stipa> ok, maybe they should text from 10km apart
<Armbian-Discord> <R​ichNeese> it depends you can have a lora repeater
<Armbian-Discord> <R​ichNeese> just like radio communications
<stipa> nah, long range is fishy
<stipa> i can do long range with wifi too if i have antennas and line of sight
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<stipa> low poer also means signal is lower even if it's on lower frequencies
<stipa> and already there's limit on the tech by the governments, everything they touch turns into shit
<Tables> So does Armbian support LoRaWAN OOTB or is it just serial over i2c or something
<Armbian-Discord> <R​ichNeese> but you have to know vhf/uhf is like 5 to 7 miles direct line of sight
<Armbian-Discord> <R​ichNeese> so put a repeater in there and you get more
<Armbian-Discord> <R​ichNeese> we are making a field repeater to go with these units
<[TheBug]> The whole premise of LoRaWAN is you would make kinda of a mesh network of devices if you want a communications network
<[TheBug]> and you would place them strategicly
<[TheBug]> the nice part about it is the long distance so if you have a decent antenna and line of site you can get nice distances out of it
<Armbian-Discord> <R​ichNeese> yes and the repeater is part of the mesh and the units also store and forward msgs
<Armbian-Discord> <R​ichNeese> so it is a geat idea
<stipa> it is, but human greed for troughput is neverending
<Armbian-Discord> <R​ichNeese> yes but they have to get real
<stipa> soon someone will have an idea of surveliance
<stipa> engineers will have to realize over lorawan
<Armbian-Discord> <R​ichNeese> even when we do data over HF its linited to the protocal used to encode the data
<Tables> reminds me of beartooth
<Armbian-Discord> <R​ichNeese> i use js8call wich you could use over lora as it has data recovery built in
<Armbian-Discord> <R​ichNeese> there are alo othe rprotocolls
<Armbian-Discord> <R​ichNeese> its just what you select to use
<stipa> yeah, but realistically, you cant run video signals over that and especially over repeaters
<stipa> they get congested
<Armbian-Discord> <R​ichNeese> lora was not ment for video thou
<Armbian-Discord> <R​ichNeese> its jusst for text/sms/low data
<stipa> yeah, but people do not understand that
<Armbian-Discord> <R​ichNeese> which is greta for emergancy data
<Armbian-Discord> <R​ichNeese> small packets
<stipa> it's simple
<stipa> it goes like this
<stipa> you say you are offering services of lorawan
<stipa> you have no job for 7 years
<Armbian-Discord> <R​ichNeese> I have been doing mesh networks in ham radio before lora was devised
<stipa> someone comes to you with big bucks and wish that you install vcameras
<stipa> cameras*
<Armbian-Discord> <R​ichNeese> and we use packet forwarding and recovery
<Armbian-Discord> <R​ichNeese> lora and cameras is going to be hard
<stipa> yeah, but what else can you sell
<Armbian-Discord> <R​ichNeese> as lora is not ment for long data streams
<Tables> didn't google come up with some kind of compressed video recently
<Armbian-Discord> <R​ichNeese> not on lora that I know of
<Armbian-Discord> <R​ichNeese> would be nice to see
<stipa> great idea
<BCMM> Tables: Google joined up with, basically, everybody else on the AV1 codec
<BCMM> (before that, they did vp8 and vp9)
<Tables> Right, wasn't it like 30Kbps for decent video was doable
<Armbian-Discord> <R​ichNeese> might as well use sstv
<Armbian-Discord> <R​ichNeese> slow scan tv
<BCMM> that's audio not video. isn't it?
<Tables> AV1 + Lyra
<stipa> ok, that's not 4K video
<stipa> erm, i mean 8K
<stipa> lyra sounds good
<stipa> it's for interplanetary communication
<stipa> it does something to sound
<stipa> that's not natural
<Armbian-Discord> <R​ichNeese> but you could do the same with a radio turned down on power to 1/2 a watt and compression
<Armbian-Discord> <R​ichNeese> thats all lora is
<[TheBug]> but LoRaWAN will be too latent for video like that in most cases
<[TheBug]> at least live video
<[TheBug]> you may be able to say send a video file
<Armbian-Discord> <R​ichNeese> yes send not stream live
<Armbian-Discord> <R​ichNeese> lora is not ment for this
<[TheBug]> I would generally think 56k modem would be faster than a large number of LoRaWAN communications
<Armbian-Discord> <R​ichNeese> you are trying to make lora what it is not
<Tables> "Enabling video for users on very low bandwidth networks (offering video at 30kbps and lower)"
<[TheBug]> Yeah but even in Googles thesis they are really just looking for low bandwidth video, their target being so 56k can actually do video chat
<[TheBug]> or so youc an video chat on like 2G
<[TheBug]> yeah LoRaWAN you are talking like maybe 4-5kb/sec maybe but it isn't a live transmission
<[TheBug]> usually you send payload
<[TheBug]> and it takes a while to arrive
<Tables> ah, so high latency
<stipa> Tables: have you found any video examples compared?
<[TheBug]> stipa: the first reference he posted actually shows video examples at the bottom
<stipa> it's audio
<stipa> not video
<[TheBug]> no look at bottom isn't it video
<[TheBug]> all thge way to bottom of page
<stipa> yeah, it's a video but not video compression
<[TheBug]> they have what looks like 3 iphone screens next to one another
<stipa> no
<stipa> video is the same
<stipa> listen to audio
<stipa> you'll notice the difference
<[TheBug]> ahh I see
<stipa> LYra sounds better than Opus
<[TheBug]> sorry I didn't notice that when I looked
<stipa> i was confused to
<stipa> but lyra has better quality than opus and wastes half of the bandwidth less
<stipa> lyra even sounds better than the original
<Armbian-Discord> <R​ichNeese> LoRa was still not ment for video
<Armbian-Discord> <R​ichNeese> its ment as a mesh network with store and forward
<Armbian-Discord> <R​ichNeese> why are you trying to force video over LoRa
<stipa> idk
<stipa> i just have a need to do it
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<stipa> to push it
<stipa> there are environments where bandwidth is low and lora is great way to test them before going to a market that has similiar environment
<stipa> 3kbs audio is insane
<stipa> 3kbps*
<stipa> still waiting video examples...
<stipa> soon will be moon colonization, that stuff is great for comm
<BCMM> stipa: video examples of what?
<stipa> Tables | AV1 + Lyra
<stipa> i guess AV1 ?
<BCMM> lyra is just an audio codec; but for av1 video samples you can use youtube
<Tables> I mean, make a virtual connection with google duo or turn on av1 enc in chrome and use webrtc
<Tables> limit to bandwidth output of choice
<BCMM> the lowest bandwidth youtube does, i think, is 144p @ 68k using av1
<stipa> can av1 do HD?
<BCMM> yeah, youtube supports it for high-quality videos too
<BCMM> there are currently practical problems using it for a lot of users
<BCMM> (at high quality)
<BCMM> around decoding it fast enough, i mean
<Tables> encoding is slow
<BCMM> there are not a lot of hardware decoders in shipped products (like there are for e.g. h264 and h265)
<stipa> hmmm
<stipa> so what is AV1 ?
<Tables> I'm sure broadcom will come up with something for low power overpriced netbooks
<BCMM> stipa: a video codec
<BCMM> the next gen of GPUs will basically all have hardware decoding support for it, though
<BCMM> (desktops, phones, etc.)
<stipa> so it runs on cpu for now?
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<BCMM> yes. but it's somewhat expensive to decode on CPU, limiting it to PCs for the most part (and then most of them won't handle 4k, etc.)
<BCMM> and basically any video that's decoded purely in software is considered unacceptable on battery-powered devices now
<stipa> right
<stipa> 4K is sick
<BCMM> hmm now that i look at it, it's more like "current-gen hardware supports av1 decode"
<Tables> apple m1 and similar don't
<BCMM> like, intel nvidia amd chips from late last year
<stipa> well, if you can afford apple you don't have shitty internet connection for sure
<stipa> therefore no need for low bandwidth AV1 decoder
<Tables> Uh
<Tables> Those aren't correlated
<stipa> right
<stipa> why would you omit AV1 decoder in a chip that won't be sold in Africa
<Tables> Qualcomm 888 doesn't even have it
<Tables> Vulkan going to have to save the day
<BCMM> stipa: it's possible that apple started av1 adoption kind of late, after it realised every else was doing it
<stipa> Tables: yeah, but you need to have hardware that supports it
<BCMM> stipa: it's developed by a consortium of basically everybody else who was working on open-source next-gen video codecs
<BCMM> (one of the exciting things about it is that it's free of MPEG LA crap)
<nekomancer[m]> invention of telegraph change humanity more than video conference turns accessible to masses.
<BCMM> and apple joined the consortium 2 years after the other major hardware manufacturers
<Tables> Vulkan is going to accelerate AV1 in the future: https://www.khronos.org/assets/uploads/apis/Vulkan-Video-Deep-Dive-Apr21.pdf
<Tables> That will be what does it.
<stipa> nekomancer[m]: even the video transmission in digital form has it's roots in telegram
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<Tables> You're talking about AV1 decoding on even a RasPi zero at that point
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<stipa> yeah, but that eats CPU
<stipa> it won't be for free for sure
<Tables> Read the PDF.
<stipa> something has to chew that decoding
<stipa> it won't be thin air
<stipa> gpu that has it in silicon design or cpu
<stipa> if rpi has AV1 decoder inside of the gpu then it makes sense
<BCMM> current Pis don't :(
<Tables> Vulkan acceleration is amazing on even the zero in terms of speed.
<Tables> Very fast
<BCMM> Tables: is that about using generic vulkan hardware to decode arbitrary video formats, or about vulkan providing a unified API to dedicated decode hardware?
<Tables> both
<Tables> that is the feature that already exists
<Tables> (API example)
<BCMM> oh, nvidia is in on it. nice. (previously they've been quite insistent on making people use their own damn video api, no matter what everybody else does)
<nekomancer[m]> <stipa "nekomancer: even the video trans"> I am talking about changes in people everyday life
<stipa> nekomancer[m]: sure, but people can live without all that stuff just fine
<nekomancer[m]> not so fine, as 20 century.
<stipa> even if everything falls apart human doesn't need long to adapt to new normal
<Tables> Uh... how do you tell what time it is?
<stipa> you don't
<stipa> you go sto sleep when it's dark and hope nothing will eat you
<nekomancer[m]> <stipa "even if everything falls apart h"> you lost to add "human, who can survive. not greater then 5%".
<Tables> Exactly, which the British figured out was horrible in the 1800's for trade.
<stipa> nekomancer[m]: you have got everything wrong if you think tech is making life easier than it was 7000 years ago. People are still surviving and trying to stay alive at this moment as it was before the telegram
<Tables> Yikes
<stipa> everyday is the end of the world actually
<nekomancer[m]> <stipa "nekomancer: you have got everyth"> not around me. I see lazy relaxed people around.
<stipa> i dont
<stipa> i see smiley faces with knives behind their back
<stipa> better don't turn your back to them
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<stipa> always looking
<stipa> 360
<stipa> you never know who'll stick it in you
<nekomancer[m]> I still alive. Because my life is safe enough. If I draain into 18 century I vill be dead in half a day.
<stipa> One day it may be a begger on the street, the other a blonde with big tits
<stipa> nekomancer[m]: yeah, it's easier to fall down in social hierarchy than it is to rise up
<stipa> if you want you can visit 18 nth century this same day
<nekomancer[m]> today I shall go to Somali
<stipa> no need to waste money, go beg on the streets
<stipa> soon you'll learn how it goes over there
<stipa> or try to climb up
<stipa> you don't know what's worse ,lolo
<stipa> in both cases you'll need to stay alive
<stipa> fuck telegram
<stipa> i'm 15 years on the internet and all it happened is linux freedom and bunch of wasted money on internet and electricity
<stipa> wherever i go scams
<stipa> not that it helped me much
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