klange changed the topic of #osdev to: Operating System Development || Don't ask to ask---just ask! || For 3+ LoC, use a pastebin (for example https://gist.github.com/) || Stats + Old logs: http://osdev-logs.qzx.com New Logs: https://libera.irclog.whitequark.org/osdev || Visit https://wiki.osdev.org and https://forum.osdev.org || Books: https://wiki.osdev.org/Books
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<heat_> i can do ~182K IOPS in onyx, inside a VM
<heat_> which is not turrible considering i vmexit every time i touch a "hardware" register. a fun side effect of completely killing my system with io ops is that my softirq mechanism gets completely overloaded and in extreme cases really kills the system
<heat_> so i probably want to offload processing to a thread if softirqs have been processing for too long
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<geist> heat_: grats
<geist> this is against nvme?
<heat_> fake qemu nvme, but i dont think it matters, i seriously doubt qemu can leverage hardware NVMe properly
<heat_> so technically it's just a SATA ssd
<heat_> vmexits are PITA. i had to start batching submission queue requests when restarting the queue, so i can fill up the queue and ring the doorbell once
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<heat_> my current really naive softirq system + the really weird way qemu hardware and interrupts act (where you can e.g send a request, vmexit, and get the interrupt right after), it's basically killing off a CPU and making it completely unresponsive to anything else until it can dispatch 10s worth of IOPS spam
<heat_> also qemu nvme does not support MSI, which is annoying
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<heat_> oh, and one fun fact about nvme: pin-based IRQ delivery is level triggered, MSI is edge triggered, so you may need slightly different code paths there (to mask interrupts)
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<geist> oh sure
<geist> also i just got a random machine check on my desktop, haven't seen one of these before
<bslsk05> ​IRCCloud pastebin | Raw link: https://irccloud.com/pastebin/raw/kGvbP290
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<geist> i'm guessing that's an ECC failure in L@
<geist> L2 even
<zid> oh welcome to my world
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<zid> If I play dragon quest monsters, I get cache MCEs
<geist> and you dont even get to earn any XP
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<gorgonical> I hate figuring out problems
<gorgonical> Well
<gorgonical> I hate that sometimes the solution is really trivial
<gorgonical> I don't mind when the solution is something subtle like not knowing about shareability domains
<gorgonical> But when it's "you dumb dumb you exhausted the stack, thus task state is all fucked up" my only reaction is :(
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<Ermine> When have s2idle thing appeared?
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<gog> meow
<nikolar> Hello gog
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<gog> hello nikolar
<nikolapdp> being productive at work i see
<gog> i am actually
<gog> i closed two issues with WONTFIX
<gog> almost time to get a pint
<nikolapdp> the best issues are WONTFIX
<sham1> hi
<gog> hi sham1
<nikolapdp> hello sham1
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<sham1> I'm actually not at work today. Gotta love part-time jobs...
<nikolapdp> it's a holiday here tomorrow and overmorrow so we get a nice extended weekend
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<gog> heat: dua lipa
<heat> dua lip
<heat> dual lip 👀🫦
<heat> Ermine, s2idle (or as they call it, s0ix) came up around 9th gen intel
<bslsk05> ​'Dua Lipa - Houdini (Official Music Video)' by Dua Lipa (00:03:08)
<gog> the opening bass riff is fucking sick
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<heat> "Fuck, we don't want to support S3, s2idle is much better" *cue 5-6 years of operating systems not being able support s2idle, with completely borked firmware hacks*
<heat> gog, WHY IS SHE NOT REFLECTING PROPERLY???? WITCH!
<Ermine> idea of being able to wake up as fast as androids is neat though
<gog> :D
<heat> Ermine, the idea of taking out your laptop out the backpack and it's warm and wasn't able to suspend for god knows why is a lot less inviting
<heat> they basically did this because they were tired of hacking up S3
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<heat> and we take the blame for their technical debt
<nikolapdp> who's we here
<gog> oh i've done that
<gog> i'm pretty sure my laptop is going to die of heat-related issues in 12-18 months
<gog> i've done everything i can to make it run cooler, i dust it out weekly
<gog> i changed the thermal paste
<gog> i don't really want one of the thinkpads they have here. they're not the good ones
<nikolapdp> what laptop do you have gog
<Ermine> heat: who they?
<gog> ideapad gaming 15arh05
<heat> Ermine, intel
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<nikolapdp> gog one thing you can try is limit your cpu frequency when you're not doing anything demanding
<heat> the powersave governor already does that
<nikolapdp> i think mine was on schedutil by default
<gog> i have it set to ondemand
<gog> i think
<nikolapdp> try changing it to powersave
<gog> it stays cool when i'm not doing anything
<gog> that's not the issue
<gog> but when i'm working or gaming it gets pretty warm
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<gog> 70°C CPU, 60°C GPU
<gog> i know that's not blazing hot, but that's just the chip temps
<nikolapdp> that's kind of typicall
<gog> what about everything around them
<nikolapdp> mine is same when under load
<nikolapdp> well just the cpu
<heat> Ermine, basically speaking, S3 *basically* turns off your computer, and then deals with it later on the "next boot", in the firmware's side. it's completely transparent to the kernel. which is a problem, because suspending a system is hard, and they need to write "boot scripts" and execute them
<nikolapdp> actually goes to 100 sometimes
<gog> maybe it'll be fine but the build quality of the system is not amazing
<heat> gog, sweetie my CPU gets to 90C under load, and so does my GPU
<heat> it's still going 6 years strong
<nikolapdp> you'll be fine
<heat> LAPTOPS ARE BUILT DIFFERENTLY
<gog> sweetie??
<heat> i'm being condescending to a laptop outsider gog
<gog> listen here young man
<nikolapdp> my old laptop's fan got stuck and i used it without active cooling for a few days
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<nikolapdp> worked fine *mostly*
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<heat> i've had to unstuck my fan a couple of times because some random pieces of broken plastic got in its way
<heat> help my step fan i'm stuck
<heat> me
<nikolapdp> i just touched mine and it got loose
<nikolapdp> heat kek
<heat> 70C is like, a chilling temperature for a laptop
<heat> and you have *fans*??? you'll be fine
<gog> well i'd die if i got to 70°
<nikolapdp> you aren't a cpu though
<gog> how do you know
<nikolapdp> good questions
<nikolapdp> like new ryzens target 105 C or so
<heat> they don't target 105C
<heat> it's probably their Tmax
<nikolapdp> they basically selfoverclock until they are at around 100C
<Ermine> stop playing games on laptops
<nikolapdp> lol just get a steamdeck
<Ermine> buy desktops with proper cooling systdms
<GeDaMo> gog: what sort of games do you play on that?
<gog> the heaviest one i have is baldur's gate 3
<gog> medium 1080ð
<gog> p
<GeDaMo> Does it have a discrete GPU?
<gog> yes
<GeDaMo> Ah
<gog> 1650
<Ermine> My laptop gets noisy even with RTW. Granted, this is integrated graphics
<Ermine> And it gets noisy when watching youtube, but that's probably luniks moment
<nikolapdp> you're probably software decoding Ermine
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<Ermine> probably, though firefox has vaapi on by default these days
<nikolapdp> you should check that
<ddevault> I've been reading the Linux TTY subsystem code today
<nikolapdp> also i think that's only on wayland or something
<ddevault> and, whoooo boy
<Ermine> nikolapdp: it's sway
<nikolapdp> fair enough
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<Ermine> and ff logs report vaapi
<ddevault> I knew it was very bad but it just gets worse and worse as I look under every stone
<Ermine> ddevault: take a rest and drink tea
<nikolapdp> ddevault: linux tty subsystem is notoriously messy
<ddevault> well, tty in unix generally is notoriously messy
<ddevault> linux has elected to make it even more so
<Ermine> time for ONYX TTYs
<nikolapdp> true that
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<ddevault> I saw written down somewhere "openpty creates a new psuedoterminal and sets the group ownership of the /dev/pts/* node to the 'tty' group, if there is one on the system"
<ddevault> and I thought, "that's weird, the kernel does not usually do that kind of thing. Is it actually being done by libc or udev or something?"
<ddevault> nope, it's the kernel
<nikolapdp> heh
<Ermine> wuuuuut
<ddevault> it does not read /etc/group, which was my first point of confusion
<nikolapdp> wait how does it do that then
<ddevault> the devpts psuedo-filesystem is mounted with the desired group ID for pty device nodes to be
<ddevault> mount | grep devpts to see the mount flags
<Ermine> it hardcodes gid???
<nikolapdp> oh gross
<ddevault> your early boot init whatever presumably handles it when mounting /dev
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<Ermine> heck
<heat> ONYX
<nikolapdp> ILLUMOS
<Ermine> * pty availablity: TBA
<heat> i take patchen
<Ermine> hence TBA
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<ddevault> lol
<ddevault> illumos does have ptys, I checked because that sounds very dumb for a unix not to have in current year
<ddevault> it just doesn't implement openpty, you have to do manual bullshit instead
<nikolapdp> heh
<ddevault> i.e. horrible ioctls
<heat> Ermine, the only "big" thing i'm missing is devfs directories
<heat> the rest should just work
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<Ermine> Wdym 'dumb'? Not everyone works on their unix full time, you know?
<ddevault> where current year is defined as anything greater than 1990
<ddevault> at which time illumos was commercially maintained (well, solaris was)
<ddevault> (strike that, solaris was released in '92)
<nikolapdp> SUNOS
<Ermine> heat: the mission, as always, is to allocate time
<GeDaMo> "Time is an illusion. Lunchtime, doubly so" :P
<Ermine> for now, the cycle is mostly work-diploma-sleep
<heat> :)
<heat> ptys are like, particularly important to get
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<heat> because ssh uses ptys
<nikolapdp> you can just tell it to not allocate a tty right
<ddevault> you need it for ssh, terminal multiplexers, xterm, lots of stuff
<ddevault> if you have X and xterm, you have ptys
<ddevault> since illumos has both of those things I was skeptical of the claim it does not have ptys
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<kof123> should i ask what posix says on the topic of pseudo terminals?
<heat> posix says a lot on pseudo terminals
<heat> all (or most?) of the pty interfaces are standard
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<gog> my boss had a webdev moment today
<gog> my microservice api works perfect
<gog> our WAF was blocking the user tho :D
<heat> WEBDEV WEBDEV PHP CRAPPER
<nikolapdp> WAF?
<gog> wet-ass filter
<nikolapdp> heh
<gog> web application filter tho
<nikolapdp> well that was stupid
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<ddevault> >posix says a lot on pseudo terminals
<ddevault> really?
<ddevault> I didn't think this was the case
<gog> heat: dua apia
<gog> api lipa
<heat> rest lipa
<ddevault> oh, I see it, it is here
<gog> json-rpc lipa
<Ermine> graphql lipa
<heat> let me grpc your graphql of that json request
<Ermine> grepc
<gog> if you're good enough to find a way, maybe you could cause a webdev to change her ways
<gog> catch me or i go 404
<sbalmos> catch(GogException ex) { return; }
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<heat> no, no exceptions allowed here good sir no sir nuh uh
<sbalmos> throw 500 Internal Gog Error
<heat> unless they're checked, those are at least better
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<gog> hi
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<nikolar> Hello gog
<gog> hi nikolar how are you
<nikolar> I'm fine thanks for asking
<nikolar> How are you
<gog> i'm well
<heat> grogzels
<gog> heats
<heat> i use lynx kerna
<gog> me too
<gog> heat
<gog> can you help me understand an EFI thing maybe
<gog> idk if it matters or not
<bslsk05> ​i.imgur.com <no title>
<bslsk05> ​i.imgur.com <no title>
<heat> i have to leave m'house but you can send me the shits over discord maybe?
<gog> sure
<gog> it's not urgent or anything, just something i can't quite deduce the cause of
<bslsk05> ​mailman.nginx.org: announcing freenginx.org
<heat> forken
<nikolar> FORK FORK FORK
<zid> I hope freenginx gets its AI sponsorship soon
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<Cindy> hi osdeves
<nikolar> Hello Cindy
<nikolar> Long time no see
<gog> hi Cindy
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<CompanionCube> mjg: what exactly has F5 done, though?
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<nikolar> ¯⁠\⁠_⁠(⁠ツ⁠)⁠_⁠/⁠¯
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<GeDaMo> F5 reloads the page :|
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<CompanionCube> https://forum.nginx.org/read.php?2,299130,299137#msg-299137 ah there's the answer
<bslsk05> ​forum.nginx.org: Re: announcing freenginx.org
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<heat_> morning
<heat_> (it's actually 9pm here)
<zid> Morning
<zid> it's 9:39 everywhere
<zid> They just like to lie
<nikolar> Good morning heat (it's not morning here either)
<zid> Can it be 2 weeks monday already? :(
<heat_> i recently started reading thomas more's utopia
<Mondenkind> where are geist and kazinsal
<heat_> it's a hard read for a non-native speaker :(
<Mondenkind> centre-of-the-world-timezone represent
<zid> You should watch the series Utopia
<zid> heat_: It's good practice though
<geist> Mondenkind: seattle, kaz is a bit north near Vancouver, BC
<heat_> oh totally
<heat_> they have a portuguese character, but named him the least portuguese name ever
<zid> hah
<heat_> it's hilarious
<zid> Mr. George Portoman
<nikolar> Lol
<heat_> raphael hythlodaeus
<zid> isn't that greek
<Mondenkind> geist: i mean i know where you are physically
<heat_> sorry, that's the latin version
<Mondenkind> but it was very lonely in the irc channel with all these foreign time-travellers :(
<heat_> it's hytholday in the english translation
<geist> oh it's just midday, so werkin'
<heat_> hythloday*
<Mondenkind> work! I'm supposed to be working too!
<gog> hi
<Mondenkind> hi
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<heat_> fwiw i'm fairly sure the guy had never seen a portuguese person ever
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<gog> i know at least 3 portuguese people
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<heat_> WHAT
<gog> yup
<heat_> crazy
<gog> i work with one, i used to work with another
<gog> and you
<gog> psure that's all the portuguese people in the world tho
<heat_> yes
<zid> every icelander knows every portuguese
<zid> by my count
<gog> i'm not an icelander
<zid> you're an icelander, but you're not icelandic
<Mondenkind> just iceland-ish
<zid> zactly
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<heat_> icelandić
<zid> heat your consonant has a smudge on it
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<zid> might wanna get a microfibre cloth
<Ermine> polish kicked in
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<bslsk05> ​www.apple.com: Polishing Cloth - Apple (CA)
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<zid> no no, that adds MORE polish
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<heat_> why does
<heat_> uh
<heat_> apple sell $25c loth
<heat_> cloth
<zid> because they're a fashion brand
<Mondenkind> 'please, apple was my father's name; call me tim'
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<geist> because it makes them money?
<gog> hi
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<heat> i wanted to play battlefield 3 but windows 11 said no
<heat> so here i am back in GNU/Nerd together with the ppl that fear any chat service that isn't composable by hand using cat and /dev/tcp
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<zid> we can play bf2 if you want
<heat> i dont have it
<heat> i have bad company 2 (but they killed the servers), bf3 on the xbox360, bf4 on the xbox360, bf4 on the PC and just bought bf3 for 1.99 on steam