<sham1>
Last/final release of Plan 9 is from 2015, after all
<sham1>
Surprisingly late, but still almost a decade ago
<sham1>
AAAA
<zid>
no, cus 1998 was one decade
<zid>
how could 2015 also be one
<sham1>
Plan 9 does have interesting ideas, but it also has interesting tools like Acme
<sham1>
Whereas so many text editors try to optimise for just keyboard stuff, Acme just says "what if mouse"
<nortti>
also has a weird amount of influence from oberon of all things
<sham1>
One research OS to another
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<kof123>
"Kind of odd" well....follow the link in the link "But it wasn't compatible enough to replace its ancestor. With off-the-shelf existing 21st century tech, we can fix that."
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<kof123>
"the year of our Lord 2024" i sense sarcasm, but ....does not concern me, however....there is a lesson here: "wasn't compatible enough to replace" and secondly, by that logic...2000 years is kind of odd to still be using such terms :D
<sham1>
Yeah, calling it "AD" like that is mostly just for fun. It's not for any actual devotion or anything
<kof123>
sure i just mean "new" stuff magically not always "good" "old stuff" magically not always bad
<kof123>
not accusing you either, just everything IMO is always slanted such
<kof123>
i do think it is strange to see the register writing such...
<kof123>
they have some sysadmins i guess who dream...
<kof123>
or....they are trying to phoenix it lol
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<nikolapdp>
that would be a good name
<nikolapdp>
phoenixOs
<gog>
there's already the phoenix technologies bios
<gog>
although i think they're just like everybody else now and ships a modified tianocore
<nikolapdp>
typicall
<nikolapdp>
is there any bios vendor not doing that
<zid>
how do I shot web
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<nikolapdp>
you just do
<zid>
I activate pot of greed
<zid>
pot of greed allows me to draw two! cards
<nikolapdp>
i activate my trap card
<zid>
it's time to D-D-D-D-D-D
<zid>
I'm going to D you.
<nikolapdp>
nooo
<sham1>
Nerd!
<nikolapdp>
yes
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<Ermine>
Is linux supposed to dump registers and stuff on NMI?
<Ermine>
ah, that's rcu informs of stalled cpu
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<gorgonical>
nikolar: maybe you can explain, as a serb -- why does the republika srpska not join serbia? I do not get it. It would be like if France had a "German state" in it. Why not just join Germany? There must be something I'm missing
<gorgonical>
Or is the answer that Bosnian Serbs != Serbian Serbs
<heat>
god is a serb
<nikolar>
gorgonical: the answer is that they aren't allowed
<nikolar>
by the piece agreements that ended the wars in bosnia
<nikolar>
more or less
<gorgonical>
do you sense that they would want to if they could?
<nikolapdp>
they would yeah
<heat>
serbia senses that the whole yugoslavia would join if they could
<gorgonical>
that makes more sense
<nikolapdp>
heat nah we tried that twice, they can go f themselves
<nikolapdp>
we'll just take serbs from now on
<gorgonical>
the answer is then, they would but to maintain peace in a highly precarious political climate they are not allowed to
<heat>
personally i'm a fan of gigamoldova
<nikolapdp>
gorgonical i am not sure how exactly they are maintaining peace when they constantly clash with teh federal government
<nikolapdp>
ie non serb parts
<nikolapdp>
a more pieceful solution would be to join serbia, but alas
<nikolapdp>
heat: is transnistria rightful moldovan claim
<nikolapdp>
all of that metadata they just needed to put into the url
<nikolapdp>
there was no other way
<heat>
REST
<heat>
i think that hm= thing is an HMAC
<nikolapdp>
yeah could be
<nikolapdp>
there should also be a timestamp
<nikolapdp>
ex= probably
<geist>
i always assume it's some way to track back to where it came from
<nikolapdp>
yeah
<geist>
i generally make a copy and paste in, because i'm a bit too worried it tracks back
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<heat>
track back to what?
<geist>
oh i dunno what channel, person, etc it came from
<geist>
not that it particularly matters
<heat>
what i think this is is just a way to make images not bruteforceable
<geist>
yeah but the first pile of hash should be good enough for that
<heat>
by making up some token system with the whole HMAC stuff
<geist>
also i assume it might time out, so making a copy
<nikolapdp>
ex= is probably expiry
<geist>
but really i like the whole 'copy the image, paste it back into chrome' thing that is pretty slick
<heat>
ah yes ex is expiry
<heat>
it expires in 14 days
<geist>
i dunno if you can do that in all situations, on all OSes, but it's pretty neat
<nikolapdp>
you usually have "open image" in the right click menu
<heat>
ex= and is= are unix timestamps
<geist>
copy image, paste in
<nikolapdp>
yeah makes sense
<geist>
new image
<heat>
okay i think i get it
<heat>
they have some token system, basically HMAC(secret + expiry + upload date)
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<heat>
what happens server side is that they validate these params again and if everything checks out they give you the image
<nikolapdp>
makes sense
<nikolapdp>
i mean it's stupid but it makes sense
<geist>
i guess that allows them to have the image in multiple contexts with different expirys and whatnot
<nikolapdp>
yeah
<geist>
and keeps any one given url from getting forever linked somewhere else
<geist>
but allows the same image to reenter the system, get a new 14 day link
<heat>
also it allows them not to store that metadata, or not need to look them up in a db
<geist>
yah
<heat>
i do wonder though, how does that expiry thing work
<nikolapdp>
what do you mean
<heat>
does the discord client re-gen a new link with a new expiry using some API?
<heat>
because those images don't expire
<nikolapdp>
maybe every time it loads a chat?
<heat>
lets test
<heat>
no, doesn't seem like it
<heat>
lets see an old image
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<heat>
i, uh, don't know how these tokens work
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<nikolapdp>
yeah who knows
<heat>
it *seems* they periodically refresh, but i can't quite pinpoint how and when
<heat>
maybe if the token expires and the discord client tries to look it up
<heat>
nonetheless it seems like an ezpz way of avoiding using discord as a CDN which, fair enough
<nikolapdp>
it's probably doing it on demand or something
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<Vocelia>
To prepare an .iso file, we have to first create an image to emulate a device. We use a tool (e.g. fdisk) to create a partition, so we fill up the partition table. We, then, carefully fill up our bootsector. Optionally, we add files to our partitions. In the end, we use mkisofs to create the .iso file. Is this procedure right? We can make an iso out of a bootsector only, right?
<Ermine>
discord api feels more complex than tg api
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<Cindy>
>.data 0000000000080000 m68k_op_table
<Cindy>
this is the size of my lookup table
<Cindy>
(65536 * 8 = 0x80000)
<Cindy>
is this too big?
<nikolapdp>
feels pretty big
<nikolapdp>
but you should probably worry about that later
<nikolapdp>
once you have a functioning emulator
<Cindy>
yes
<Cindy>
and my python opcode generator just worked, and i fixed up all the shit
<Cindy>
to FINALLY get a build
<nikolapdp>
nice
<Cindy>
i actually had it programmed to insert illegal instructions for the instructions i didn't implement, inside the lookup table
<Cindy>
so only move instructions are possible without getting an illegal instruction exception
<nikolapdp>
are you trying to emulate a particular system
<Cindy>
nah, only emulate the m68k
<Cindy>
nikolapdp: i got a lot of unused function warnings for the functions defined just for the lookup table
<nikolapdp>
and you're referencing them inside the table?
<Cindy>
yes
<nikolapdp>
well that's odd
<Cindy>
and then it complains about the table being unused
<nikolapdp>
are you using the table?
<Cindy>
yes
<nikolapdp>
add something like printf("%p\n", table[123]);
<nikolapdp>
to main
<Cindy>
okay, so like
<Cindy>
it doesn't complain that the table is unused
<Cindy>
but it complains about the functions being unused
<Cindy>
... wait a minute
<Cindy>
the functions that are unused... are NOT referenced in the table
<Cindy>
i fucked up the script
<Cindy>
god fucking damn i am the retar
<Cindy>
retard
<nikolapdp>
lol
<nikolapdp>
forgor
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<Cindy>
i didn't feel like reading the 66,605 line output file
<nikolapdp>
that's why the compiler has read it for you
<nikolapdp>
and told you aboit it
<Cindy>
i am too tired to deal with this
<Cindy>
i need the naps
<Cindy>
my CPU has had enough torture generating the lookup table 5 times
<nikolapdp>
that's not that much data, why would it be torture
<Cindy>
it had to 1) check with every instruction in the instruction set table to get one that's valid with it
<Cindy>
2) generate function names by getting the size and EAs from the opcode, using the instruction's bitstring pattern
<Cindy>
3) check if it's apart of a list of generated function names, dump it if it's not
<Cindy>
65536 times
<nikolapdp>
meh you'll cpu will enjoy the excercise
<nikolapdp>
*your
<gog>
hi
<Cindy>
hi gog
<Cindy>
how are you sis
<gog>
i'm well
<gog>
how you
<Cindy>
fine
<Cindy>
debugging some shit
<gog>
same
<nikolapdp>
hello gog
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<heat>
kern
<adder>
Kernel Sanders.
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<Cindy>
i am the one who sands kernels
<Cindy>
call me
<Cindy>
KERNEL SANDER
<Cindy>
we're the
<Cindy>
KERNEL SANDERS
<childlikempress>
colonal development
<childlikempress>
development of the colon
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<nikolapdp>
lol
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<Vocelia>
What's is the smallest disk image? Is it floppy 1.4M?
<nortti>
smallest disk image for what?
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<Vocelia>
for making a valid .iso file
<gog>
one doesn't ordinarily put a .iso file on a floppy
<gog>
but you can make a floppy image with mtools
<vdamewood>
Vocelia; Do you mean for an El-Torito bootable ISO?
<zid>
Fun fact, a disk image is not an is
<zid>
iso
<Vocelia>
hm
<zid>
an iso is a filesystem level copy
<zid>
it's basically a 'tar'
<Vocelia>
interesting
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<zid>
cd-roms are fucking evil is why
<Vocelia>
vdamewood: well...for now, I'm only testing the bootsector, so I don't think I need an el-torito bootable ISO
<zid>
They have like 32 interesting data streams
<Vocelia>
I am simply trying to see how smaller can I make the ISO go
<zid>
the 700MB of data you can fit on one takes like 1.5GB to encode
<Vocelia>
Apparentely, after 1.4M, I get errors preparing the iso
<zid>
why not
<zid>
show us the command you ran
<zid>
and the error it gave
<zid>
and ask us our thoughts on it
<zid>
and not "how small is an iso"
<vdamewood>
Vocelia: Well, then why do you need a disk image?
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<Vocelia>
you can prepare an ISO file without a disk image?
<zid>
yes?
<Vocelia>
zid: mkisofs -o myos.iso -V MyOS -b floppy.img iso
<Vocelia>
Setting input-charset to 'UTF-8' from locale.
<Vocelia>
Size of boot image is 8 sectors -> mkisofs: Error - boot image 'iso/floppy.img' has not an allowable size.
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<zid>
you told it that floppy.img is your 'boot sector'
<zid>
iso9660 only has so much padding for legacy boot
<zid>
it's complaining you exceeded that
<Vocelia>
wait so it didn't need more space but rather it is complaining that it wants less space?
<zid>
It's complaining floppy.img isn't a boot sector
<Vocelia>
I see
<zid>
it's a disk image for a floppy, presumably
<Vocelia>
then I have to provide my binary file
<zid>
32kB is your absolute limit for iso9660 for writing a bootsector
<zid>
that's how much padding there is before actual data starts
<zid>
2 seconds of pregap before the first song, or 32kB, for you to fit a hybrid filesystem, legacy bootsector etc in etc
<zid>
(that's how cds are even bootable at all, they're not supposed to be)
<vdamewood>
And yes, I know that 'terminal' in terminal velicoty menas 'last speed'.
<zid>
6th floor is the most deadly
<vdamewood>
... not 'deadly speed'.
<kof123>
:/ it was an old game title
<nikolapdp>
zid hey i live on the 6th floor
<zid>
don't get a cat then
<zid>
move to the 8th
<zid>
Do you live in a communist block
<zid>
with sick brutalist architecture
<nikolapdp>
actually no
<nikolapdp>
at least not a typically commie block
<vdamewood>
nikolapdp: A post-commie block?
<nikolapdp>
nope, 70s
<vdamewood>
nikolapdp: Are you in a second-world country?
<zid>
If he says no he's lying
<nikolapdp>
actually technically it's a third world country by the original definition
<nikolapdp>
ie non nato and non warsaw pact
<nikolapdp>
but second world would be more accurate i guess
<vdamewood>
nikolapdp: Oh? Now I'm curious. Would you be okay with specifying which one?
<zid>
vdamewood
<nikolapdp>
serbia,
<zid>
have you heard of /whois
<nikolapdp>
lol
<zid>
.rs -> Russia Stan
<nikolapdp>
wrong zid
<nikolapdp>
try again
<vdamewood>
Naw, .rs is Republic Serpenta
<zid>
Really Shit
<nikolapdp>
nope
* CompanionCube
mistakes rs for that part of bosnia rather than serbia itself
<vdamewood>
I mean Republik Srpenta
<zid>
Reallygoodfriendswith Косово
<nikolapdp>
how can you be a friend with a part of you
<vdamewood>
nikolapdp: Yugoslavia wasn't a WP member?
<nikolapdp>
nope
<zid>
yugoslavia was russian as fuck
<nikolapdp>
lol yugoslavia was a bunch of things, but russian as fuck wasn't one of them
<CompanionCube>
vdamewood: there's the anecdote of stalin attempting tito and tito threatening stalin back in a letter
<vdamewood>
nikolapdp: Yeah, I see why it's nebulous as to whether it's 2nd world or 3rd world then.
<CompanionCube>
but i believe they later made nice, so?
<zid>
Josip Broz Tito
<zid>
The president of the Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia
<nikolapdp>
CompanionCube you mean after his death lol
<nikolapdp>
*stalin's
<zid>
Literally leader of the "stalin is my bestie" club
<nikolapdp>
you do realise that they absolutely hated each other
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<nikolapdp>
stalin and tito
<vdamewood>
could see Khrushchev making nice with Tito.
<nikolapdp>
after stalin's death, relations improved
<zid>
tito and stalin were just tsundere
<nikolapdp>
but never got to pre-fight fight with stalin
<zid>
They were too similar and kept arguing about what colour to paint their bedroom
<nikolapdp>
zid: is that your fanfic
<nikolapdp>
don't get me wrong, i hate tito
<nikolapdp>
but he was far from best friends with the soviets
<vdamewood>
Hmm... Tito died before I was born.
<vdamewood>
Now I want to buy books on Slovenian.
<gog>
me too
<gog>
he died 3 months after my sister was born
<nikolapdp>
vdamewood why slovenia
<nikolapdp>
*slovenian
<zid>
He died.. 9 years before I was born
<nikolapdp>
gog: and she was born into a better world for it
<vdamewood>
nikolapdp; i have a friend for Ljubljana.
<vdamewood>
from*
<zid>
fucker was born in 1892
<nikolapdp>
vdamewood: ah that's nice
<nikolapdp>
now you have a friend from serbia, are you going to learn serbian :p
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<zid>
I had a friend from serbia, I upgraded him to a friend from finlan
<vdamewood>
nikolapdp: Maybe.
<nikolapdp>
zid: i thought we were still friends :(
<nikolapdp>
vdamewood nice
<vdamewood>
nikolapdp: Though, when I learn a language, I try to mimic a specific accent, and learn about the whole language spread if possible.
<zid>
No I traded you
<zid>
do you have salimiakki too?
<vdamewood>
nikolapdp: So for example, right now I'm focusing on Farsi, but also looking into Dari and Tajik.
<nikolapdp>
that's fair enough
<nikolapdp>
also very random languages
<nikolapdp>
zid: we have rakija remember
<kof123>
> Terminal Velocity: Boosted Edition so there is a new version...i think many years ago i could not get the shareware to work :/ looking further, fury3 and sequel hellbender were similar (had the former and the level editor)
<vdamewood>
Tajik is like 95% Farsi written in Cryillic.
<vdamewood>
Maybe even 98 or 99%
<acidx>
cryillic: like cyrillic, but it's always the cursive variant and you're always crying trying to read that stuff
<nikolapdp>
acidx you get used to it
<kof123>
degrees of flying cat worship: Fury³ (and hellbender sequel) Sebek is a desert world -> Draconis was the constellation of Horus-Sebek, the crocodile-dragon. -> alchemy salamander i am 99% sure, but draco also has cat's eyes
<nikolapdp>
vdamewood: really, i would've expected it to be a turkic language
<zid>
nikolapdp how many alphabets did you decide to use three week
<zid>
s/three/this
<nikolapdp>
what do you mean
<vdamewood>
nikolapdp: Farsi, and tajik aren't Turkic. They're Into-European.
<kof123>
and that's the story of how terminal velocity still ends up with flying cats
<vdamewood>
Indo-*
<zid>
serbia's one of those "Let's use latin, and russian and turkic alphabets this week" countries
<nikolapdp>
E>i know about farsi ,didn't know about tajik
<nikolapdp>
zid: lol what where did you get a turkic alphabet from
<nikolapdp>
also there isn't even such a thing
<zid>
turkey
<vdamewood>
nikolapdp: Oh, 'Tajik' and 'Farsi' are the same language. Total mutual intelgibility.
<nikolapdp>
huh the more you know
<zid>
Examples include:
<zid>
Serbian, which is written both in Serbian Cyrillic alphabet and Gaj's Latin alphabet .
<nikolapdp>
yeah, that's two
<nikolapdp>
and no turkic
<zid>
You're a turkish microstate
<zid>
not my fault
<nortti>
is glagolitsa used nowadays?
<nikolapdp>
also i use exclusively cyrillic in serbian
<nikolapdp>
nortti nope
<vdamewood>
Uh, There's no 'Turkic' alphabet.
<nikolapdp>
i think the last holdout was some random croation monastery in the 18th century
<zid>
vdamewood: you'd think he'd know that, being a turkish microstate
<heat>
maaaaaaaaaaa they're discussing linguistics in #osdev again
<nikolapdp>
1. i did say there is no such thing, 2. what does a turkish microstate even mean
<nikolapdp>
heat what are you doing in our linguistics channel
<vdamewood>
nikolapdp: Former Ottoman territory.
<heat>
turkish microstate means nothing because turkish implies macrostate
<nikolapdp>
nortti: latin was almost never used for serbian before commies came into power
<nortti>
I guess the idea was to have one script all yugoslav languages could be written in?
<vdamewood>
heat: I think he's badly drawing the macOS logo.
<vdamewood>
Then why was Slovenian never written in Cyrillic?
<Ermine>
better than him drawing a cat
<heat>
is he the first person in history to draw a smiley face while visibly upset? is this normal for eastern european men?
<nikolapdp>
vdamewood: got into germanic spehere of influence before they adopted it
<nikolapdp>
heat: i don't know i don't draw smily faces
<heat>
are eastern european men always upset due to some tower-of-babel-like curse in the old testament?
<heat>
i'm not saying anything, just asking questions
<Ermine>
yes
<nortti>
vdamewood: alphabets in europe tend to spread through religion, latinate christianity with latin alphabet and eastern christianity with greek or cyrillic alphabet
<nikolapdp>
nortti: the idea was to undermine serbs basically, since we were the most numerous ethnic group
<nikolapdp>
that's why serbia is the only federal state to have had semi indepenent provinces inside of it
<nikolapdp>
etc
<vdamewood>
nortti: That kind of makes sense.
<zid>
oh the balkans being the tower of babel site makes a lot of sense
<vdamewood>
nortti: I always wondered why not all Slavic languages adopted Cyrillic.
<zid>
It's why none of them are able to talk about their deep love for kosovo being independent
<nikolapdp>
you can't talk about your deep love for something that doesn't exist
<Ermine>
heat: yes, I cosplay openvms fans while having upset face
<vdamewood>
nortti: you just blasted my brains out.
<vdamewood>
I mean, blew my mind.
<heat>
Ermine, do you wake up in agony over linux having won against solaris?
<nikolapdp>
lol a turkish yes
<vdamewood>
I'm more sad that Solaris is no longer under active development. It's basically in extended maintanance/life support.
<vdamewood>
Of all the proprietary Unixes, I liked Solaris the most.
<zid>
You can
<zid>
actively develop it yourself!
<nikolapdp>
I L L U M O S
<vdamewood>
Oh yeah, that's still a thing.
<nikolapdp>
there are even multiple distriburions
<nikolapdp>
but they are ditching sparc support :(
<vdamewood>
I'm also saddened by that.
<heat>
don't let them
<nikolapdp>
at least we'll always have netbsd
<heat>
stop the fasc bryan cantrill and his ilk
<vdamewood>
Not that Illumos is dropping Sparc, but that Sparc is dying or dead too.
<heat>
show em who's boss
<acidx>
nortti: there's also the usage of the hebrew alphabet for things like ladino (judaeo-spanish) and judaeo-portuguese. the portuguese variant is pretty much extinct, but the spanish one is still around. it's kinda fun to read something that sounds spanish but with a RTL script
<vdamewood>
I used to have a Sparc Station IPX.
<nikolapdp>
i want to get some sparc hardware and run a modern os on it
<nikolapdp>
but expensive :(
<kof123>
phoenix lays golden egg -> basilisk eats it -> cadmus, son of phoenix, gets revenge just saying, there is an "alphabet" of sorts there too lol
<nortti>
acidx: oh interesting, didn't know ladino was still a language in use
<Ermine>
heat: yes. Girl kissers faction lost
<acidx>
nortti: it's definitely not a popular language, but it seems that some things are still being written with it
<nortti>
neat
<vdamewood>
nortti: Maybe I can adapt Belarusian Arabic for Esperanto.
<nikolapdp>
esperanto
<heat>
sun microsystems liked to make out, linux devs liked to make bzImage -j4
<nikolapdp>
vdamewood did we both think of esperanto at the same time
<vdamewood>
nortti: Jes.
<nikolapdp>
heat funny
<vdamewood>
nikolapdp: &
<nikolapdp>
vdamewood what are the odds
<vdamewood>
1 in 3.4
<Ermine>
isn't bzImage default target?
<nikolapdp>
oh so not that impressive
<vdamewood>
nikolapdp: FWIW, I'm an Esperantist... I think.
<nikolapdp>
i started a duo lingo course for a bit to see what it's like lol
<heat>
Ermine, not quite, i think all builds some more stuff (including modules)
<vdamewood>
nikolapdp: What do ou think?
<vdamewood>
Hasn't Linux switched to xzimage?
<heat>
also some archs don't have bzImage, but rather Image (e.g in arm64 you do make Image -j4)
<nortti>
vdamewood: you might also want to check out some other more divergent arabic-script orthographies like uyghur and xiao'erjing (= mandarin chinese in arabic alphabet)
<nikolapdp>
vdamewood: it's interesting but nothing special
<heat>
vdamewood, linux has many compression algos, bzImage is just The Name for historical reasons
<heat>
they even have zstd
<Ermine>
okay
<vdamewood>
nortti: I knew about Uyghur. Didn't know about xiao'erjing.
<heat>
i use zstd btw zstd is great use zstd all other compression algorithms suck
<vdamewood>
nortti: I'm guessing you already know about Jawi.
<nikolapdp>
heat: yes zstd is pretty good
<nortti>
vdamewood: looking it up, have come across it yeah, but could not have told you what jawi was
<vdamewood>
nortti: I couldn't remember what it was called. had to google "Arabic script used in southeast asia"
<nikolapdp>
how did they make zstd so fast and have good compression ratio
<heat>
dark arts
<nikolapdp>
basically
<vdamewood>
They padded the kernel with 0x90 in a bunch of places to give the illusion that they were compressing something significant.
<nikolapdp>
wat
<vdamewood>
I'm bullshitting.
<nikolapdp>
yeah
<vdamewood>
nikolapdp: Do you know x86 machine code?
<heat>
using 0x90 as nop padding is pessimal
<zid>
I use random calls for padding
<nikolapdp>
vdamewood: i do yeah
<zid>
to confuse the branch predictors and prefetchers and stuff