klange changed the topic of #osdev to: Operating System Development || Don't ask to ask---just ask! || For 3+ LoC, use a pastebin (for example https://gist.github.com/) || Stats + Old logs: http://osdev-logs.qzx.com New Logs: https://libera.irclog.whitequark.org/osdev || Visit https://wiki.osdev.org and https://forum.osdev.org || Books: https://wiki.osdev.org/Books
<heat_> re: the wait_all_objects thing on the nt patch, "When bWaitAll is TRUE, the function's wait operation is completed only when the states of all objects have been set to signaled. The function does not modify the states of the specified objects until the states of all objects have been set to signaled"
<heat_> so sorting + waiting on everything doesn't work
<zid> Is that part of the speedup?
<heat_> shrug
<zid> Like, not having to eat a signal for each completion, and instead only ending up with 1
<heat_> i think they (are/were) using eventfds in wine, how that works idk
* Matt|home snuggles gog <3 et all
<heat_> et al*
<heat_> it's latin, not YALL
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<gog> hi Matt|home
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<Matt|home> <3
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<zid> salmiakki goes great with bitter
<nortti> what bitter you taking it with?
<zid> john smith's extra smooth
<nortti> oh yeah, do you know of salmiakkikossu?
<zid> is that the salmiakki vodka
<nortti> yes
<zid> I'd like to try it, but it's like €20 for a small bottle
<nortti> guess you can't just get the ingredients and make it yourself?
<zid> I mean, I could dissolve a turkish pebble or two in a bottle of cheap vodka
<gog> have you had ópal
<zid> Only opal fruits
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<gog> there's also a liqueur
<gog> licorice
<heat_> liquer
<heat_> lick
<gog> grow up heat
<zid> bit fins can't spell liquorice
<gog> haha lick
<gog> i don't spell words
<heat_> grow up what
<zid> actually, they're 50/50
<heat_> i can't grow any bigger, i'm already 21
<gog> take anabolic steroids
<heat_> now we're talking
<zid> The fazer SUPER SALMIAKKI says liquorice, the HALVA POMMIX says locorice
<heat_> being NATTY is OVERRATED
<nortti> lol
<zid> glukossirap
<adder> I'm SHOCKED. SHOCKED!! that debauchery is going on in here.
<zid> You shouldn't b
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<heat_> adder, hello world kernel where
<zid> I should carry on with my hello world uefi
<heat_> damn, joining the dark side?
<zid> no
<zid> I was doing it all as nasm db's
<zid> :D
<adder> heat_: Preparado.
<heat_> preparado para o quê?
<zid> Meu camelo está cheio de batata
<adder> heat, esta cozihnando.
<heat_> esperem, deixem-no cozinhar
<zid> eSperm
<bslsk05> ​imgur.com <no title>
<heat_> BROTHER YOU DONT EVEN HAVE A PRINTF
<childlikempress> even i have a printf
<adder> Nice, I wish I had a printf.
<childlikempress> and i'm a fake kernal developer
<heat_> moonchild@freebsd.org ?
<childlikempress> oh that reminds me i gave up on actual os dev but i was gonna make a thing for benchmarking stuff to kill scheduling noise and get easier access to perf counters and whatnot
<childlikempress> i should finish that
<bslsk05> ​google/benchmark - A microbenchmark support library (1577 forks/8200 stargazers/Apache-2.0)
<heat_> literally saved some dozens of hours of your time
<childlikempress> > library
<childlikempress> how does this 'kill scheduling noise and get easier access to perf counters and whatnot'
<heat_> it kills scheduling noise by doing it the bench N times and the duration = (time_delta) / N, supports fancy statistical analysis, and hardware performance counters
<zid> It just runs a bunch of times and averages the noise :P
<childlikempress> well yeah that's what you do usually
<childlikempress> but--I don't remember now--I had some application where that wouldn't do what I want. I think I could've done it with rseq
<childlikempress> but other than that
<heat_> rseq would stop preemption from getting in the way, but it wouldn't stop the side effects of preemption, if they end up happening
<heat_> say you schedule out and your process' TLB gets dropped
<heat_> or your caches go bye bye
<childlikempress> i can drop results from around when I got scheduled out
<childlikempress> i think i wanted to look at cache coherency protocol interactions or something
<childlikempress> like fairness properties in case of contention
<childlikempress> so i do actually wanna know the worst cases. but the actual worst cases, not the kernel-scheduled-me-out worst cases
<heat_> oh so you want to do it in the kernel?
<childlikempress> yeah basically. 'unikernel' i think it's called?--no preemption or scheduling, just some special-case benchmark code running on each core
<childlikempress> (though I mean, having process separation and being able to turn off preemption would also work. just more effort)
<heat_> nanobenchmarking
<bslsk05> ​andreas-abel/nanoBench - A tool for running small microbenchmarks on recent Intel and AMD x86 CPUs. (53 forks/402 stargazers/AGPL-3.0)
<childlikempress> :p
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<heat_> > Linux-based
<heat_> boring
<childlikempress> my point exactly!
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<adder> Correct my understanding: The kernel only needs to set up its page tables according to architecture's specifications (like, put the table location in CR3), and then the CPU, MMU, and TLB handle the rest of it automatically by means of using various bits of the address for indexing into the table?
<adder> Obviously I don't mean that page faults are handled automatically. :)
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<geist> adder: basically
<adder> Thanks, geist.
<geist> that's the overall gist. there are details, and there are times when yo uneed to resynchronize things, but for the most part software maintains the tables, and hardware consults the tables to do translation automatically
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<bslsk05> ​git.kernel.dk: proxy.c « examples - liburing - io_uring library
<zid> io_uring hello world
<sham1> That's one long hello world
<kazinsal> io_urine
<sham1> Yeah
<zid> on my end, it gives up counting them after 1303 :p
<sham1> This is why libraries like libev are important
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<Ermine> there are many cafeterias that cook better burgers
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<adder> Shit. I forgot to sleep.
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<Cindy> can you use CPU cache as RAM?
<pounce> Cindy: CPU cache is usually not shared between different cores/nodes/etc so it doesn't really serve the same purpose as RAM
<nikolapdp> l3 is though
<nikolapdp> and it's the largest
<pounce> between NUMA nodes?
<nikolapdp> ah right
<nikolapdp> it *usually* is shared on consumer cpus
<gog> cache as ram is done in firmware, you can look at libreboot or coreboot to see how they do it
<gog> but typically it's only enough to get the DRAM controller set up
<nikolapdp> i didn't expect that to actually be a thing but i guess it makes sense, since you can usually boot to bios even without ram
<Cindy> with the kind of cache size (without RAM), i don't think there will be enough to initialize the display
<Cindy> so it just beeps :P
<nikolapdp> but it does run
<Cindy> (i'm assuming the framebuffer is stored in the cache)
<Cindy> yeah it does
<nikolapdp> how do you know
<mcrod> gog may I hug you
<gog> yes
* mcrod hugs gog and scratches head
<Cindy> nikolapdp: because it beeps?
<nikolapdp> oh did you just try it lol
<Cindy> i tried it before
<nikolapdp> fair enough
<Cindy> also can i hug gog sis?
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<gog> yes
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<heat_> Cindy, there's enough cache to configure graphics
<heat_> also framebuffers are not in memory, they're usually in graphics memory (over PCIe)
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<nikolapdp> heat_ how do framebuffers work in that case, does it have to flush to gpu on every byte written
<heat_> zid, that's definitely not the hello world, you picked the largest example they have
<nikolapdp> kek
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<heat_> nikolapdp, depends on how the caching is configured. write-combining lets you combine multiple writes into a single "flush"
<nikolapdp> so it writes to gpu when it evicts a cache line?
<nikolapdp> wait that wouldn't work
<heat_> if you map it uncached then yeah every write goes through a PCIe transaction. can't remember if its posted though
<nikolapdp> interesting
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<heat_> yeah ok in PCIe all writes are posted I think
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<kof123> > write-combining lets you combine multiple writes into a single "flush" so it is like FILE * </half-joking>
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<mjg> are you quoting discord
<mjg> :X
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<gog> hi
<gog> i'm gog
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* pogspawn hug Cindy
<kazinsal> gog! i mean, uh, pog! i mean, uh
<kof123> mjg: me? is hea t considered discord :)
<kof123> it was meant as "caching all the way down/up"
<mjg> yo mama is discord
<kof123> it is not a series of tubes, but a series of ...things that fill up and then you flush...
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<jimbzy> Howdy
<nikolapdp> hello jimbzy
<heat_> i am discord, destroyer of IRC
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<bslsk05> ​lore.kernel.org: [linux-next:master] [filelock] b6be371400: stress-ng.lockf.ops_per_sec -100.0% regression - kernel test robot
<heat_> i'm a big fan of -100% regressions
<mjg> ? ;d
<mjg> so it does not work?
<mjg> maybe they rounded up and it is just dog-fucking-slow
<mjg> aka openbsdware
<bslsk05> ​lore.kernel.org: [linux-next:master] [filelock] b6be371400: ltp.fcntl17_64.fail
<mjg> probably how it happened
<heat_> did they not test it
<heat_> this isn't running on some random patch, it's running on fucking -next
<mjg> running tests is for wussies
<heat_> it can't be PESSIMAL if you don't do anything at all
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<mjg> there is a case the other way
<mjg> a flock *not* correctly providing exclusive locking
<mjg> and mon, the scalability win on that patch was massive
<mjg> not in linux though
<heat_> did you write that patch?
<mjg> no
<heat_> "flock: replace with a noop as locking is crapper"
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<pogspawn> hi
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<sham1> hi
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<nikolar> Hello
<zid> he no
<zid> nikolapdp how goesuki honreading
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<nikolapdp> zid: believe it or not i've read the first chapter
<zid> wow
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<nikolapdp> i know right
<zid> rocket go brr
<nikolapdp> very nice
<nikolapdp> you've finished the game
<zid> need mining prod 170
<nikolapdp> kek
<nikolapdp> just let your automated base automatically research it in the background
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<zid> I will probably need to fix a few deadlocks, this is the first time it's come online
<zid> I forgot an output balancer on my inserts + radars chunk and had to fix that, inserters filled up and killed radar production
<zid> Starter base -> new base production difference
<zid> Need to wait for all the buffers to level out and see what production is actually lagging, in about 5 hours
<zid> Given a train has 320,000 science in it
<zid> it may take a while to go steadystate
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<nikolapdp> heh yeah
<nikolapdp> that's a massive jump
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<zid> Good news, I am incredibly LDS starved
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<sham1> I first read that as "LSD starved"
<zid> That too
<nortti> you need more mormons?
<zid> Not that kind of LDS
<nikolapdp> low density structures
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<gog> i'm watching the expanse, it has space mormons
<gog> it's also not the only piece of sci-fi media that has space mormons
<gog> which is funny
<nikolapdp> Wow! If I had a nickel for every time I see a show with space mormons, I'd have two nickels. Which isn't a lot, but it's weird that it happened twice. Right
<nikolapdp> ^ gog right now
<gog> yes
<zid> Apparently that's from a cartoon called penis and ferb
<gog> phineas
<nikolapdp> kek
<gog> and pherb
<zid> furby?
<nikolapdp> yeah i didn't know either
<gog> fineas and pherb
<gog> it's a funny cartoon
<gog> i enjoyed it
<zid> I literally tabbed back here from reddit
<nikolapdp> welcome back zid
<zid> from a post called "did you know that this thing is from a cartoon"
<nikolapdp> kek
<zid> did you also see that post and it infected you nikolapdp
<nikolapdp> no actually
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<gog> starship troopers
<gog> that was the other one
<zid> I am starship troopers
<childlikempress> starship troopers is good but I have bad associations with it because I was shown it under conditions of extreme duress
<zid> story time
<zid> nikolapdp: I need more plaastic :(
<nikolapdp> zid: more oil!!!
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<zid> yea need to builda bunch of pumpjacks and stuff first, those are not automatic and I won't be taking them inside bot range anyway
<zid> then I can do a factory setup, then I can add more plastic production.. sigh
<nikolapdp> at least it's not hard to connect them to the automated part of the base manually
<zid> fuck oil
<zid> oil is the worst
<nikolapdp> heh
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<gog> hi
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<nikolapdp> hello gog
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