<gog>
it can support four, but you have five going in
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<zid`>
right, so it does an slowdown
<gog>
if you take the output from the belt on the "top" of the pic and feed it into the input on the bottom
<gog>
that's full throughput
<zid`>
but it doesn't do that
<gog>
but, it can still stall
<froggey>
just use undergrounds
<zid`>
obviously
<gog>
hi froggey
<zid`>
or stop using busses they smell
<gog>
bussy
<froggey>
that too
<zid`>
If you're using busses you're not thinking BIG
<froggey>
hi gog
<gog>
that's right, trains are the way to true mass transit
<zid`>
I prefer fractal spaghetti
<zid`>
It's not just regular spaghetti, it's *advanced* spaghetti
<zid`>
You build a nice point to point base, then instead of adding 'more belts of iron' into a 'bus' to try improve it, you just delete parts of the base, by building entire products off-site and replacing the deleted part with a single belt
<bslsk05>
imgur.com: Imgur: The magic of the Internet
<zid`>
Christ froggey
<gog>
i should play seablock
<zid`>
it's also faster and easier, gog
<zid`>
seablock sadly hits my 'I hate this part' buttons too much for me
<zid`>
and I keep dropping it and starting over
<froggey>
I've finished seablock and moved on to pyanodons now
<zid`>
yea I don't think I'll ever do pyanodon
<zid`>
from what I've heard of it
<zid`>
I hate 'on fire' bases
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<froggey>
the end was definitely a big slog. I hadn't scaled up alien artefacts enough and had to wait a whole bunch for that
<gog>
did that mod bring back alien artifacts?
<zid`>
as in, you're dealing with side-products by siloing them because in 3 techs you get the decent way to deal with them and you'll be coming back
<zid`>
then you get distracted, and now it's all backed up
<zid`>
so you need to temp in a solution to get some flow go- oh and it just happened on the other side of the base too
<froggey>
I just burn or void the side products
<zid`>
It's inputs too though sometimes
<zid`>
saw blades for trees is a good example
<zid`>
to do that *ideally* you just want bots, it trivializes it, but you can get away with just throwing 100 blades in
<zid`>
and dealing with it later
<froggey>
gog: not as a drop, but just as another thing to make
<gog>
ohh
<zid`>
Yea that whole sequence is actually the thing I hate most about seablock's tech tree
<zid`>
the fish and puffers and petri dishes and crap
<froggey>
yeah
<zid`>
You suddenly need it *all* out of nowhere
<zid`>
and it needs to be big in scale, and you need to figure out how much space everything will need etc cus seablock
<zid`>
and the recipes are unfamiliar so I forgot things more than once
<zid`>
"oh I need to make diamond polishing wheel feeback loop?!? FUck, that's never going to fit, and I so can't be arsed to tear this down.."
<zid`>
seablock but with construction bots you get at blue science, those bad micro-bots or whatever, would be perfect, you could use them to do the bio side of the tech tree that gets you yellow/purple to make real bots with
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<adder>
p = (struct page_table *)(u32)(p->e[pde].entry & 0xFFFFFFFFFE00ULL); Why the bitwise and?
<kazinsal>
that u32 cast scares me
<GeDaMo>
adder: it's zeroing the lowest 9 bits
<adder>
GeDaMo: Yeah, but why?
<gog>
have you looked at the structure of a page entry
<kazinsal>
look at the page entry's structure -- how many bits are address-related and how many are flags, reserved, etc
<kazinsal>
also someone else please tell me I'm not wrong to be concerned about that 32-bit cast like am I having a stroke
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<GeDaMo>
It does seem a little weird
<gog>
i don't fully understand why it's there
<GeDaMo>
adder: you didn't get that code from an LLM, did you? :|
<zid`>
Double casts are funny
<kazinsal>
it feels like it should be a u64
<gog>
and why the mask is 8 bytes
<adder>
No, GeDaMo, it's zid's code.
<kazinsal>
or better yet a uintptr_t
<zid`>
gog: it's a 32bit elf loader loading a 64bit elf
<gog>
ahh ok
<kazinsal>
oh
<kazinsal>
oh no
<zid`>
so the fields are all 64bit, but half the pointers are 32bit, some of the casts are just notes
<kazinsal>
so another case of "don't blindly copy code you don't understand"
<adder>
Where on the internet can I see the structure of a page entry? I only am able to find low-quality images of 32-bit addresses.
<zid`>
You could ((u32)addr)&0xFFFFFE00 it instead
<kazinsal>
the canonical reference will always be the five thousand pages of dead trees that is the intel manuals
<gog>
adder: the intel system developers' manual
<adder>
Is an Intel manual going to be ok for amd?
<gog>
the amd one is a little less cluttery tho
<gog>
i prefer the amd manual
<kazinsal>
yeah for the most part they're interoperable except for platform-specific things
<zid`>
I've still never looked at it
<gog>
there are some microarch specific things but not a lot that's relevant to you really
<kazinsal>
but if you're dealing with platform-specific things, you will definitely know what you're doing
<zid`>
I have hard copies of the intel ones, it seems a shame to use the amd instead :P
<sham1>
AMD reference is nicer. After all, AMD64 was their idea, while Intel was going to Itanium
<adder>
Great, thanks. :)
<GeDaMo>
That website is terrible :|
<zid`>
there are non terrible websites?
<nikolapdp>
kek
<zid`>
Gm yet nik?
<nikolapdp>
nope
<nikolapdp>
you
<zid`>
Only in tgm1
<nikolapdp>
i am not even that
<zid`>
You could be, with an hour a day for a few months!
<nikolapdp>
yeah maybe
<kazinsal>
I prefer the intel SDM because I've spent enough time reading intel ethernet manuals that the format of their docs is like a warm hug from an old friend instead of a shock to the system
<kazinsal>
the goatse of hardware manuals
<nikolapdp>
why did you read so many intel ethernet manuals kazinsal
<kazinsal>
the first time you see it, you go, OH MY GOD WHAT IS THAT MAN DOING TO HIS ANUS, but after 20 years, you chuckle and say "hello old friend"
<kazinsal>
because the OS project I've been working on and off for the past decade has been a bespoke routing/firewalling system
<nikolapdp>
fancy
<froggey>
it's 30 years now, not 20
<kazinsal>
listen I don't want to think about how long I've been looking at kirk's gaping hole for
<kazinsal>
not especially because just the other day I realized there were DOZENS of more photos in that set
<gog>
you've never seen the whole set?
<gog>
he has a great ol time
<kazinsal>
I'd seen others from behind but not the goddamn full frontal yoga poses
<froggey>
he does videos too
<zid`>
gog I had very good breakfast
<kazinsal>
I hope he's still alive because he's an inspiration to butthole surfers everywhere
<gog>
haha butthole surfer
<zid`>
is that a euphamism
<gog>
yes, it's also the name of a great band
<kazinsal>
^
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<bslsk05>
www.gnu.org: Multiboot Specification version 0.6.96
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<adder>
gog: Yeah, this will be useful, thanks. In this document, boot.S contains: movl $(stack + STACK_SIZE), %esp and there's nothing in zid's code in boot.asm, as if the stack was already set up.
<gog>
my familiarity with how it works has faded with time. i'm UEFI gang
<gog>
i always did the stack setup myself
<froggey>
"The OS image must create its own stack as soon as it needs one."
<bslsk05>
www.pagetable.com: The funny page table terminology on AMD64 – pagetable.com
<adder>
I realize there's a four-level deep hierarchy and PML4 being the top level, if that's what you mean?
<Reinhilde>
you could have just said "it's EM64T page-table fuckery"
<zid>
Then that define should make perfect sense
<Reinhilde>
> The interesting fact is now what AMD called it… “page directory pointer-pointer” (PDPP)? “page directory pointer directory” (PDPD)? No, they understood that numbering the page table levels was a better idea, as they all have the same format anyway. The (single) 4th level page table is called “page map level 4” (PML4). The other levels are still named PDP, PD and PT in the
<Reinhilde>
documentation, though (also in Intel’s), probably to make it easier for developers familiar with i386/PAE.
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<adder>
Is the define an address of 511th entry within the single top level table?
<Reinhilde>
I'd assume so?
<gog>
i call them PML4..1 myself
<Reinhilde>
gog, well that isn't very good
<gog>
since you can have page entries in 3..1
<Reinhilde>
it makes sense
<Reinhilde>
sense isn't allowed in x86
<gog>
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
<Reinhilde>
am I wrong?
<gog>
no
<zid>
I don't get 4..1 and 3..1
<zid>
what that
<Reinhilde>
probably PDP, PD, pT
<zid>
ohh
<zid>
calls them pml4, pml3, pml2, pml1, got ya
<gog>
yes
<gog>
and 3 2 and 1 are each page tables if the right pit of ther PM#E is set
<gog>
bit
<gog>
in part for 3 and 2 at least
<gog>
idk paging is silly
<adder>
Ok, I realize now what it's doing. But why? Why displaced identity map?
<immibis>
gotta start from 0 though. pml4, 0, 1, 2
<immibis>
why not displaced identity map?
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<gog>
assigned page table at birth
<immibis>
don't be transphobic
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<gog>
i'm allowed to make weird trans-related jokes
* gog
taps the "i'm trans" sign
<zid>
I get to make sense about how genitaled I am
<zid>
GeDaMo have you considered not knowing obscure bands
<immibis>
are you aware someone committed a high profile suicide with gasoline yesterday
<Reinhilde>
self-immolation, immibis
<Reinhilde>
zid, a glass is around 550 ml
<zid>
pint glas!? £80 then
<gog>
yeahhh
<zid>
I thought you meant drinking glass
<Reinhilde>
that should be roughly 16/-
<zid>
also you got shorted by 18ml, dob them into the weights and measures crew
<Reinhilde>
nah mate, I specifically bought a metric pint, they're long 50
<zid>
lol trd.is
<Reinhilde>
What about it?
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<zid>
I just hit the domain up
<Reinhilde>
UEdinburgh owns tard.is so I can't get that one (-:
<zid>
And saw the tagline that explains that trd stands for tard
* zid
wants retard.uk
<Reinhilde>
zid, it's already currently registered.
<zid>
I'm not sure you're allowed anything until the uk tld
<zid>
other than gov co etc
<gog>
we have a uk tld
<zid>
at home?
<Reinhilde>
until recently, zid, you weren't
<gog>
my company
<Reinhilde>
We have a .uk tld at home. *goes home* it's a .gb zone running on some wingnut's nameserver
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<heat>
good morning united states of kernal
<GeDaMo>
Hmmm ... .rd isn't assigned
<zid>
rude.
<Reinhilde>
I don't plan on doing anything except .dd and some .x? domains if I run my own fake country code registrar
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<GeDaMo>
Why not just start a .zid TLD ? :P
<zid>
I did, GeDaMo.zid is the only domain
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<zid>
Reinhilde: I'm adding .spqr
<zid>
Anyone who lives anywhere that was part of the roman empire can use it
<zid>
italy/france/england except cornwall/etc
<nikolapdp>
nice
<Reinhilde>
what about émigrés from the former rome
<nikolapdp>
serbia too obviously
<zid>
no, serbia isn't a country
<zid>
kosovo can come though
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<nikolapdp>
you got it mixed up, kosovo is the one that isn't a country
<heat>
ottoman empire rules all
<heat>
sorry, roman empire
<heat>
typo
<nikolapdp>
you're reat heat, ottoman isn't roman empire
<Reinhilde>
"serbia isn't a country" then what's this? draws a rough boundary including serbia except for vojvodina and kosovo
<zid>
ooh are we underlined now
<Reinhilde>
ja
<heat>
serbia except for vojvodaidnaj and kosovo is actual serbia
<nikolapdp>
why are you excluding vojvodina and kosovo
<nikolapdp>
that's serbia
<zid>
serbia except for vojvodina, kosovo, metohija is perfect serbia
<nikolapdp>
that's just a half of serbia
<nikolapdp>
also zid, i'm surprised you even know what metohija is
<zid>
nikolapdp why did you never tell me that you have a WEST BACKA
<zid>
This is an outrage, I could have been making tsudere jokes
<nikolapdp>
because it's just backa here lol
<zid>
all this time
<heat>
#geopoliticsdev is back baby
<nikolapdp>
do you prefer #geopoliticsdev to #D
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<nikolapdp>
to #langdev
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<zid>
I think serbia minus west backa, north backa, north banat, south backa, central banat, south banat, macva, city of belgrade, kolubara, podunavlje, branicevo, bor, pomoravlje, sumadija, morvica, zlatibor, raska, rasina, toplica, nisava, zajecar, pirot, jablanica, pcinja
<zid>
is best serbia
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<nikolapdp>
are you just listing everything you can find
<heat>
#D
<zid>
No that's just everything apart from the bits that are kosovo :P
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<nikolapdp>
D
<nikolapdp>
lol ok
<zid>
banat wants west backa senpai to noticeit
<nikolapdp>
it's just backa over here
<zid>
I'm literally looking at a map
<zid>
of administritive districts of serbia
<zid>
by serbia
<zid>
That's like me not knowing kent exists and saying "actually it's just called the south-east of england"
<heat>
can't*
<heat>
hth
<gog>
osdev
<gog>
operating system kernal
<heat>
gog lets do some osdev tiktoks
<gog>
i have an osdev dance
<gog>
it's actually just rolling on the floor screaming
<gog>
also heat how can i make my dynamic linkign code more cursed
<heat>
LIFEIS PAIN
<heat>
gog, implement ifunc
<gog>
ifunc?
<heat>
delete all comments
<zid>
implement relocations that don't exist
<heat>
pretend you're submitting something to musl
<gog>
omg yes
<zid>
to throw off investigators
<gog>
ifunc is what i need
<heat>
ohno
<nikolapdp>
sorry zid, what language is that map in
<heat>
nikolapdp, C++
<nikolapdp>
gross
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<zid>
nikolapdp: serbian
<gog>
actually ifunc is a little more complex thani need
<heat>
what do you need
<zid>
west backa is infact, district 1
<gog>
because when i go from boot time to kernel time i can just reset the entire gotplt to what it was before
<zid>
in part 1 of 3
<gog>
alternatively, the boot time resolver can just not write the gotplt rentries
<gog>
and jump to the impl
<gog>
but the kernel-time resolver will rewrite entries
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<nikolapdp>
zid i have never seen a single serbian map that calls it west backa
<zid>
what do you mean, it
<zid>
I think you've just never seen a district view of serbia
<nikolapdp>
P7ah those are districts
<nikolapdp>
they basically don't exist for all intents and purposes
<zid>
except for all the maps they exist on
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<heat>
do serbian maps still have kosovo as part of serbia
<heat>
and vojvoajdoajda
<heat>
i'm not going to bother typing all of that
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<heat>
just like bjarne strostusosp
<nikolapdp>
yes serbian maps have serbian provinces on them obviously
<nikolapdp>
what kind of question is taht
<heat>
linux
<nikolapdp>
illumos
<zid>
heat: They at least bothered to colour it differently on wikipedia
<nikolapdp>
yeah because it's a different administratice region
<zid>
(one administered by kosovo, the country)
<adder>
zid: Is VIRT_TO_PHYS just offseting stuff so it's high in memory?
<gorgonical>
nikolar: I watched some videos of speaking Serbian and I've concluded that it sounds exactly like the stereotypes I've seen in movies
<gorgonical>
Opinions?
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<nikolar>
Well half the time it's Russian when they say it's Serbian
<nikolar>
So I'm not quite sure that's true
<gorgonical>
I mean I watched a video documenting someone speaking it. So I'm pretty sure it was actually Serbian
<nikolar>
Most of the time I've seen Serbian spoken in those movies it's was very broken and obviously not native
<nikolar>
To my ears at least
<nikolar>
But I guess it was good enough of an impression if you thought that
<kof673>
to get back to the mj g thing he posted a few days ago about "compartmentalization" ("news nuggets") ....the ouroborus ensures fiction and reality will always overlap :D it is inevitable, it is just a matter of time
<kof673>
call it language nuggets lol
<gorgonical>
Oh you mean in the movies
<gorgonical>
Yes probably
<gorgonical>
I mean to me it sort of sounds like an Italian person speaking Russian lol
<nikolar>
Lol haven't heard that comparison before
<gorgonical>
Wait I wonder if it's maybe just this one person. These other videos of others speaking it sound a lot less stereotyped
<gorgonical>
Wtf? lol
<adder>
What does stereotyped mean?
<adder>
What's the stereotype?
<gorgonical>
Like the way media depicts south slavic speakers as having these exaggerated vowels with almost like a tonal contour to some vowels, like its melodic.
<kof673>
a stereotype is when you have incomplete information and must make a quick snap judgement like a jungle animal. a non-stereotype is also when you have limited information lol
<kof673>
it is built into humanity lol
<kof673>
a matter of degree :D
<nikolar>
gorgonical Serbian does have pitch accent and a 5 vowel system
<nikolar>
So I guess to an English speaker they would sound exaggerated
<gorgonical>
Pitch accent is a linguistic crime
<gorgonical>
But indeed pitch accent would really affect the quality of the vowels
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<nikolar>
Why would it be a linguistic crime lol
<adder>
nikolar: What's a pitch accent?
<gorgonical>
It's more subtle than a full tone system like Mandarin or Thai have, but important enough that if you fuck it up you will say the wrong thing
<nikolar>
It's really not that subtle to be fair
<nikolar>
adder it's what we learn at school lol
<gorgonical>
adder, pitch accent is a simpler version of a tone system. Typically you have high-low contrast, and syllables are either said with high or low pitch
<nikolar>
Wouldn't say it's a version of tone system it's not really related
<gorgonical>
I guess the distinction from tones is that tones are intra-syllabic
<nikolar>
Pitch accent spans syllables for example
<nikolar>
Yeah exactly
<adder>
nikolar: Perhaps illustrate on an example? Do you mean the accent spoken on the news by the presenters vs southern parts?
<nikolar>
Not dialect
<nikolar>
Like the accentuation of words
<nortti>
adder: what languages do you speak?
<adder>
nortti: English and Serbian.
<gorgonical>
nikolar I don't know that I agree that it spans syllables though. Each syllable itself has only a single pitch, right?
<adder>
nikolar: Do you mean MOtika vs moTIKA?
<nikolar>
gorgonical syllables have pitch yes, but the actual semantic part is juxtaposition of two syllables
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<gorgonical>
then an interesting question is if there are any single syllable pitch-accented words
<gorgonical>
in Japanese, the only language I'm familiar with that has pitch-accent, hashi is both bridge and chopsticks depending on which syllable is high, the first or the second
<nikolar>
Nope
<nikolar>
That's like one of the first things they tell you
<nikolar>
You need more than one syllables and you can never accentuate on the last syllable
<gorgonical>
Not something I had ever thought about, that pitch accent may in fact require multiple syllables to be semantic
<nikolar>
Well there you go
<gorgonical>
Wikipedia specifically remarks that Serbian is a disyllabic system though
<nikolar>
I mean is it a pitch accent if the pitch is intrasyllabic
<nikolar>
Isn't that a simple tonal system
<gorgonical>
What's the difference then? Then a pitch accent is just a simple tone system
<gorgonical>
I should say that like in Japanese the pitch doesn't have internal contour. There's no rising/falling/circumflex tones like in Mandarin, it's just flat high or flat low
<nikolar>
There's more to accents in Serbian than just pitch, there's also stress and length of the syllable
<gorgonical>
So it's "intrasyllabic" but without contonur
<nikolar>
In Serbian you need HL or LH for it to be considered an accent
<nikolar>
And then it can be both long and short
<gorgonical>
Complicated
<nikolar>
Funny thing, I can always tell when something is wrongly accentuated
<nortti>
nikolar: what makes the syllable length an accent system vs. some other kind of duration distinction?
<nikolar>
But I can never name which one it is
<kof673>
without wishing to discuss, consider what happens when there is zero difference, spoken or written: > "The term [United States] has several meanings. It may be merely the name of a sovereign occupying the position analogous to that of other sovereigns in the family of nations, it may designate territory over which the sovereignty of the United States extends, or it may be the collective name of the States which are united by and u
<kof673>
nder the Constitution."
<nikolar>
nortti: it's not an accent system on its own
<nikolar>
It's just a part of the whole thing
<gorgonical>
nortti: I would say that duration is not part of a pitch accent
<gorgonical>
Just phonemic
<nikolar>
For Serbian accents, stress marks which syllables are a part of an accent
<kof673>
"commonwealth" and many other things also have this
<kof673>
only context can distinguish
<gorgonical>
We should invent a language where all words are encoded by length only. The only canonical syllable is /ba/ and all words are encoded by extending the vowel
<nikolar>
gorgonical isn't that the original php
<gorgonical>
Then we get /ba/ /ba:/ /ba::/ /ba:::/ and so on
<kof673>
^ i held my tongue about making a php law joke
<kof673>
it was silent :D
<gorgonical>
For bonus math points, /b/ is also a valid word
<nikolar>
gorgonical how many words would be practical in that language
<gorgonical>
Probably like 5
<gorgonical>
If we introduce tones we can get maybe 4 times as many non-zero-length syllables, so 17 words I'd guess
<gorgonical>
Unless you want to introduce very elaborate tones
<nikolar>
A very practical language
<gorgonical>
We can double the inventory by choosing to allow implosive and ejective variants of /b/, too
<gorgonical>
Or triple then
<gorgonical>
So 51 words
<gorgonical>
And to make it even more impractical if you distinguish between creaky, breathy, and standard voice we can have as many as 150 words
<gorgonical>
So now we're up to toki pona levels of base words
<nikolar>
Don't forget aspirated and unuspirated variants
<nikolar>
Of the consonant
<gorgonical>
Indeed, then we have 300. With two more modifiers we can have a swadesh list in our language
<nikolar>
Not bad heh
<gorgonical>
We can nasalize the vowel
<nortti>
also reduce it
<gorgonical>
That would be just /b/ though right?
<nortti>
I was thinking /bə/
<gorgonical>
Oh right
<gorgonical>
That would get us over a thousand but runs the risk of being re-analyzed as two actual vowels
<gorgonical>
If we move /b/ to /d/ then we can add retroflexion and I don't think we lose anything
<nikolar>
I mean all those variations of the consonant are definitely going to be reanalyzed as separate consonants
<gorgonical>
I'm thinking about if we can get away with writing it in IPA as just /d/ with a shitload of diacritics on it
<gorgonical>
lol
<nikolar>
Lol oh in that case sure
<nikolar>
But it would still feel like different consonants to speakers
<gorgonical>
Though not all of these are strictly orthogonal. Is there a clear difference between aspirated and unaspirated implosive /d/?
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<nikolar>
Huh you're right, I'm not sure
<nikolar>
I guess with aspirated implosive consonants you have two points where the air stream is obstructed
<nikolar>
Both by the glottis and then later depending on the consonant
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<gorgonical>
I want the idea that any combination of the modifiers is guaranteed to be a word, too. Like we could geminate the initial /d/ but I don't think you can realistically geminate ejectives
<kof673>
whether one buys his premises (he explicitly denies any phonetic connection, although it may manifest as such) ... full of list of words in X languages that supposedly "interchange" ...but only because the hieroglyphs as supposed roots :D
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<kof673>
anyway, you could make a language like that....even if he is wrong :D
<nikolar>
Yeah that's tricky gorgonical
<heat_>
oh my god i fall asleep for a couple of hours and they start speaking phonetic again
<gorgonical>
we cannot be stopped
<kof673>
this is the only channel i've seen people are interested in such lol
<heat_>
kill(gorgonical, SIGSTOP)
<kof673>
noone else cares about "roots" of things
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<gorgonical>
kof673: there is a really unusual fraction of interest in linguistics here
<heat_>
oh gorgonical do you have signals yet?
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<gorgonical>
yes
<heat_>
they're a blast, for a very particular definition of blast
<nikolar>
Lol
<gorgonical>
blast my brain with a handle of rum, blast?
<gorgonical>
I didn't implement them though so I got to skip this
<heat_>
what
<heat_>
did you copy that shit from some random kernel?
<gorgonical>
It predates my work on it
<gorgonical>
My personal kernel doesn't even have interrupts yet lol
<heat_>
oh
<gorgonical>
I mean I've worked on many (most?) parts of this research kernel in depth, but much of what I've done has not been user-facing, so things like signals haven't been part of my research
<gorgonical>
My personal kernel is on pause right now until I finish writing the lisp for it. I've resolved that writing the rest of the OS in forth will shorten my lifespan unnecessarily
<nikolar>
So you're pivoting to lisp?
<heat_>
>writing the rest of the OS in forth will shorten my lifespan
<heat_>
>writing the lisp
<heat_>
you sure that's the choice you want to be making?
<gorgonical>
nikolar writing another language runtime was always part of the plan, but I didn't know exactly how much of the OS I would write first
<heat_>
you know, writing a kernel in C is killing me
<heat_>
which is why i'm pivoting to C#
<heat_>
just kidding, C# is too hard, i'm writing in POSIX sh now
<gorgonical>
Maybe if I'm lucky in the future I will decide to write a C runtime for the lisp
<heat_>
note: strict POSIX sh, none of that bash mumbo jumbo, that's too modern
<bslsk05>
lore.kernel.org: Re: [LSF/MM/BPF TOPIC] Measuring limits and enhancing buffered IO - Paul E. McKenney
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<heat_>
anyway the idea of RCU page cache is interesting
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<mjg>
i concede it's a loller
<mjg>
> That is a completely asinine argument.
<mjg>
now, if it was the L man, he would totally say the above but also explain why
<mjg>
not nice, but at least tries to go forward
<mjg>
i'm disappointed with the RCU MAN though
<mjg>
> Huh. Anything else you need to get off your chest?
<mjg>
is what 25 year old me would respond with while claiming it's an attempt at not escalating
<gorgonical>
"i'm not bothered at all, as you can see from my blase response."
<mjg>
(which for me at the time it totally would be)
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<heat_>
even for current you
<mjg>
i disagree
<mjg>
that is an asinine response btw
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<mjg>
i would respond with "can we please keep it civil, i don't think statements like this are productive"
<mjg>
however, this can be seen as a diss on its own
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<mjg>
heat_: who do you consider to be second most kind person on lkml
<mjg>
is it viro
<heat_>
lol
<heat_>
andrew morton isn't bad, some of the mm people aren't bad
<heat_>
the DRM people are friendly i've heard
<mjg>
hm ye the dude is kind of stern but to the point i think
<heat_>
greg is weird, he's nice but horrible at the same time
<mjg>
tell you what
<mjg>
how about a contest who can stay civil the longest
<sham1>
No, fuck that
<mjg>
i'm only inviting heat to it
<heat_>
who's the competition
<mjg>
no 'mofo', 'webdev'
<mjg>
i am
<heat_>
oh no
<mjg>
lemme tell you a story as a warning
<heat_>
do i lose if i say crapper or PESSIMAL
<mjg>
way back i worked at a startup and was notoriously coming in at 11 or later
<mjg>
i took a bet with a random luller who thought i would not be able to show up at 9 for an entire week
<mjg>
i won
<heat_>
STAY HARD
<mjg>
it was not worth it :x
<mjg>
anyhow
<mjg>
i think crapper is also off the table
<mjg>
pretend this is a professional environment
<mjg>
one can be critical of things of course
<heat_>
i'll have to circle back to this proposal later
<heat_>
but thank you, it's a great proposal, i'll definitely consider it
<mjg>
let's put a pin in that, sure
<mjg>
i guess the question is what about invoking SUN ENGINEERING ETHOS
<mjg>
or other ways of being nasty without expicitly cussing 'n shit
<heat_>
how is that being nasty
<mjg>
cmon mate
<mjg>
very sarcastic
<heat_>
they definitely bragged and still brag about sun engineering
<heat_>
listen, i'm a fan
<heat_>
i've read all solaris internals
<mjg>
the contest is off the table, yo uare clearly too intellectually dishonest
<mjg>
unless we explictly allow this kind of behavior
<mjg>
which does partially lower the stakes
<heat_>
see, i thought solaris networking over STREAMS was a great idea, but then a week later once i started reading the 2nd edition i realized it completely sucked and that the Solaris networking stack without STREAMS was great
<mjg>
it's not THAT hard to avoid using specific words when you still get to be nasty
<mjg>
that's sun engineering ethos responding to zeitgeist
<mjg>
too bad sun did not live to make the 3rd edition
<mjg>
"solaris to linux migration guide"
<heat_>
Solaris Internals 3rd edition - by Larry Elison and the Oracle India Kernel team
<heat_>
and the copperguy
<mjg>
you just gave me an idea to troll
<mjg>
i mean what to post specifically
<mjg>
one could do some benchin, find that illumos sucks, and ask which version to go back to which does not
<mjg>
because clearly it used to scale great
<mjg>
i mean EVERYONE told me
<heat_>
the illumos people don't deserve it
<heat_>
see, now THAT is nasty
<mjg>
devs? probably not
<mjg>
some fanboys? defo
<mjg>
fwiw i interacted with liek 2 guys i think and both were perfectly decent
<mjg>
the devs
<mjg>
excuse me sir, who is going to carry the boats?
<mjg>
i'll carry the burden of not cussing
<mjg>
"crapper", "webdev" and "PESSIMMAL" are still on the table
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<Ermine>
where pessimal
<nikolapdp>
crapper
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<Ermine>
re drm people: seems like clashes happen there sometimes
<Ermine>
<heat_> note: strict POSIX sh, none of that bash mumbo jumbo, that's too modern -- bash was released in 1989
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<Ermine>
Solaris internals - worth reading?
<mjg>
:D
<mjg>
if you want to learn something, no
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<sham1>
That's why you use the KoЯn shell
<sham1>
And yes, it's bothering me that it says KoYAn instead of Korn
<mjg>
i recently watched a video where a bunch of transition screens used cyryllic letters
<mjg>
but stuff was not even phonetically spelled out
<nikolapdp>
cursded
<mjg>
just like the KoЯn example
<mjg>
super f-in annoying
<adder>
What's cursed is recursive paging.
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<mcrod>
hi
<nikolapdp>
hello mcrod
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<heat_>
Ermine, yeah it's worth reading
<heat_>
just don't take it as gospell
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<mjg>
heat_: lol
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