klange changed the topic of #osdev to: Operating System Development || Don't ask to ask---just ask! || For 3+ LoC, use a pastebin (for example https://gist.github.com/) || Stats + Old logs: http://osdev-logs.qzx.com New Logs: https://libera.irclog.whitequark.org/osdev || Visit https://wiki.osdev.org and https://forum.osdev.org || Books: https://wiki.osdev.org/Books
<geist> might be useful for explaining some of the trickier details of mmus and whatnot, if done right
<geist> but otherwise
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<kof526> videos need transcripts, else you have to sit and wait at the lecturer's pace :/
<kof526> the "force you to listen to my lecture" education model is just as bad as mastery and other things IMO
<kof526> >    The Carnegie Unit and the Student Hour are strictly time-based references for measuring
<kof526>    educational attainment used by American universities and colleges           that path leads to hell :D
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<adder> Knock knock.
<heat> who
<adder> Process.
<heat> who
<adder> Process Deadlocked.
<adder> Don't you remember me?
<heat> who
<adder> I'm done with the book. Leapfrogger over the Windows chapter, but something had to give.
<adder> Tomorrow I will start developing a kernal.
<heat> kernol
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<xFCFFDFFFFEFFFAF> kirnal
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<pie_> crumpet
<pie_> Not the best is better than not at all. I feel like I have some kind of learning impairment at this point. <heat> videos aren't the best media for kernels and operating systems
<pie_> Well, I am watching it at 2x. but Im rather sleepy so I need to go back over the densest part so far again which is context switching and something else I forgot. <kof526> videos need transcripts, else you have to sit and wait at the lecturer's pace :/
<pie_> In any case this it probably a good overview and then I can read the xv6 document.
<pie_> adder: which book?
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<kof526> i was not directing those statements at anyone, just general thoughts. bad OCR PDFs are also pessimal :D
<kof526> maybe AI can correct bad OCR...
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<gagaist> hi
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<sham1> hi
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<zid> nikolapdp help, this is making me wanna work on zid.dll
<gagaist> what's in zid.dll
<zid> bone mode, invis mode, re-defaulted the menu selections, remove world rule, custom backgrounds, custom vsync post-sleep, auto-mroll, alternative hold, disable previews, controller support, keyboard support
<gagaist> bone mode
<zid> IBM BLOCKS technically
<gagaist> the cat has the zoomies
<gagaist> he is very good
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<nikolar> zid what do you want to do with zid.dll
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<pie_> love this machine hanging all the time
<gagaist> hi pie_
<adder> pie_: Modern operating systems.
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<gagaist> haiku
<gagaist> we should all be using haiku
<gagaist> why are you not using haiku
<zid> does it run doom
<gagaist> yes
<zid> how does gagaism differ from dadaism btw?
<nortti> < gagaist> why are you not using haiku ← no full disk encryption support
<zid> nortti's opsec is very important
<zid> for all those illicit reindeer and snow deals
<nortti> pst, wanna buy some birch that fell off the back of a truck^W^W^W^W^Win the last storm?
<nikolar> zid of course it runs doom, everything runs doom
<zid> My OS doesn't run doom, it only runs link's awakening
<zid> nortti: I only buy 100% pure colombian birch
<zid> plus I bet a player like you can't shift as much weight as I need
<nortti> did they end up establishing a hard border in the irish sea?
<zid> I think the solution is mainly to pretend there isn't a problem
<nikolar> zid your os doesn't even have keyboard input
<zid> and!?
<zid> Just write the buttons you pressed into the process memory
<zid> that's how zid.dll works
<nikolar> So I'm supposed to poke around vms memory
<zid> #define BUTTONS ((unsigned short *)0x641190)
<nikolapdp> cute
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<nikolapdp> do you have udp zid
<zid> I have icmp and arp
<zid> and by 'have'
<zid> I mean, it claims to be every single IP address
<zid> then responds to all pings to any address
<zid> so erm, don't connect it to a switch
<nikolapdp> lol
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<nikolapdp> zid when will you port tgm3 to your os
<zid> When I RE all the gritty matrix math
<zid> then hoist it to a modern version of opengl instead
<nikolapdp> it's opengl huh
<zid> yea, gl 1.1
<zid> immediate mode
<zid> glVertex3f!
<nikolapdp> heh nice
<zid> I made a
<zid> model viewer for the 3d format it uses
<zid> so it wouldn't be super hard to throw the backgrounds in, and some quads for the text
<zid> but the block generation is.. more troublesome
<nikolapdp> why's that
<zid> else I could do it highlevel style
<zid> because it's *deep* in the matrix math code
<zid> The frame render I could high level replace
<zid> just cut out all the matrix math for the frame, and replace it with zid_draw_frame()
<zid> same with drawSprite
<zid> but the blocks I'd have to properly RE their matrix math for
<nikolapdp> wonder why it's that weid
<zid> hmm?
<zid> It's not weird at all
<zid> It generates the geometry at runtime from the playfield arrays.. exactly as it has to
<nikolapdp> i would've imagined it used just boring old sprites
<zid> go open game.exe and leave it running for a minute
<zid> or I can do it and stream it
<zid> your call
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<nikolapdp> just did
<zid> glhf doing this with sprites
<nikolapdp> yeah it's full 3d
<nikolapdp> lol
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<zid> The background of the playfield is just black quads though
<zid> you can see it behind the held piece sticking out, oops
<zid> also the bar between 10 and 100 is z-fighting
<nikolapdp> heh funny
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<nikolapdp> level 315 zid
<nikolapdp> let's go lo
<nikolapdp> lol
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<nikolapdp> 
<gagaist> hi
<jimbzy> o/
<gagaist> jimbzy!
<gagaist> hiii
<jimbzy> Howdy howdy.
<gagaist> sosig
<jimbzy> XD
<zid> I figured out why webdev is so awful now
<zid> People took the 'omg you can't use tables' people seriously
<zid> so they had to invent ever-increasingly abstract ways to render tables in css
<gagaist> yeahhh
<gagaist> i hate bootstrap so much
<gagaist> and display: table
<gagaist> i'm always fighting it
<zid> 10MB of jquery so that they can move some divs around with OFFLINE RENDERING
<zid> to recreate divs
<zid> err tables
<nortti> I think jquery is far too small to be used anymore
<zid> that's 10MB of 'code you write before the final closing brace, after jquery includes you'
<zid> cus it's a FRAMEWORK
<jimbzy> That's kinda of like inheritance to share implementation in OOP.
<jimbzy> You can't do that!
<zid> a framework is like a library, except the way it works is they do int main() { something(); #include <you.js> something(); }
<gagaist> ever since document.querySelector() became a thing jquery is less useful
<jimbzy> When sometimes, that's exactly what we need. :P
<zid> what does querySelector do
<zid> is it different to getElementById
<zid> or Xpath
<gagaist> yes
<zid> in a meaningful way?
<gagaist> ehhh
<jimbzy> This is why I use Hugo.
<zid> Figures.
<bslsk05> ​tonsky.me: JavaScript Bloat in 2024 @ tonsky.me
<nortti> https://infrequently.org/2024/01/performance-inequality-gap-2024/ is also good for knowing what your limits likely should be
<bslsk05> ​infrequently.org: The Performance Inequality Gap, 2024 - Infrequently Noted
<zid> My limit is about 200kB
<zid> Of combined code and images
<jimbzy> I took a couple of webdev classes at uni and it just didn't appeal to me at all.
<nikolar> zid wait until you hear about rust frontend frameworks
<zid> I know what those wrods mean individually
<zid> but not in that order
<jimbzy> Haha
<nikolar> Lol
<jimbzy> Does not compute.
<jimbzy> gagaist, How you been?
<gagaist> been well thanks, how you?
<zid> that 2024 website is offering *100kB* of javascript as the metric for a *five second pageload* 75th percentile
<zid> and people think it's 'fine' their website uses 20MB of it
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<jimbzy> Same. Working and playing with my radio crap.
<gagaist> we got a cat
<zid> I want a new cat
<zid> one of mine broke
<gagaist> :(
<zid> and the other is hiding in the spare room all day lately
<jimbzy> Woot?
<Ermine> Ethiopia become too hard for tutorial camapign in hoi4
<Ermine> became*
<jimbzy> My cat has issues, too. She recently started showering with me and I'm not sure how to feel about it.
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<zid> sexy?
<jimbzy> Nah, it's kind of unsettling tbh.
<gagaist> D:
<gagaist> could she be pregananant
<gagaist> pregonte
<zid> You could
<zid> shut the door
<jimbzy> Nah she's fixed so no pergrannt.
<zid> gagaist
<zid> if smoking is so bad for me
<zid> why does it cure salmon
<jimbzy> I think she's feuding with my wife.
<gagaist> zid: hhhh
<nikolapdp> good one zid
<nikolapdp> zid: re rust: https://yew.rs/
<bslsk05> ​yew.rs: Yew
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<zid> okay so it's just rust cgi?
<nikolapdp> nope, wasm
<zid> of ffs
<zid> oh*
<nikolapdp> i know right
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<vdamewood> zid: Fast file system?
<zid> no, for fuck's sake
<vdamewood> That's a terrible name for a file system.
<nikolapdp> lol
<zid> Don't laugh at that
<vdamewood> Yes, laugh, let the darkness flow through you.
<zid> it's not the darkness I'm worried about, it's the dadcringe
<vdamewood> But I'm not a dad. :(
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<gagaist> do not kiill the part of you that is cringe, kill the part of you that cringes
<nikolapdp> sun tsu ^
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<heat_> kill everything
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<nikolapdp> hello heat_
<nortti> < heat_> kill everything ← zhang xianzhong
<zid> Lu Bu: "Hehe my name rhymes"
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<kadvex> knock knock
<nortti> lü bu: "actually it doesn't"
<vdamewood> Cao Coa's name rhymes better
<vdamewood> Cao Cao*
<zid> pitches don't count
<zid> pitches are illegal
<vdamewood> Good thing I'm an English speaker, and I don't care about that pitch.
<nikolapdp> that's not even pitch, it's tone
<nikolapdp> ie more complicated
<vdamewood> Good Point. Japanese has pitch. Chineses have tone.
<zid> chineses have egg fried rice
<zid> chinese has tones
<nortti> if y'all mean lu vs. lü, that's not a tone distinction, that's a different vowel
<vdamewood> There's more than one Chinese. It's Chineses.
<zid> english has a paucity of vowel characters, sadly
<nikolapdp> oh never mind then
<zid> we need about 15 more
<nikolapdp> aren't there like 12 in total
<zid> 12 is a lowball
<nortti> you sometimes see ü written as v in pure ascii contexts
<vdamewood> nikolapdp: Which dialect?
<zid> if you combine a few accents you can get over 20 easily
<vdamewood> nortti: I type it with v
<nikolapdp> vdamewood good point
<nortti> vdamewood: for an ime?
<bslsk05> ​i.imgur.com <no title>
<zid> gagaist is a latte sipping sheep civilization with volcanoes and moss and brushes snow
<zid> confirmed right here
<vdamewood> ǘ
<vdamewood> nortti: It's kiust a keyborad layout. But if I use any of the tones as a dead key, hitting v gives me ü instead of v.
<vdamewood> just*
<gagaist> lmao selfoss-area is white trash
<gagaist> not entirely false
<gagaist> the entirety of reykjanes tho? not so much
<gagaist> no argument about capital district and akureyri classifcations
* vdamewood gives gagaist a fishy.
* gagaist chomp fishy
<nikolapdp> gagaist what does gagaist mean
<gagaist> it means my political alignment is lady gaga
<zid> what did she do now
<gagaist> idk
<zid> oh just, generally?
<gagaist> yes
<zid> so gagaism and dadaism are ultimately very similar
<zid> One of them makes art from weird things
<zid> one of them makes dresses from weird things and wears them
<gagaist> yes
<zid> (Dada was a known transvestite)
<sham1> My computer got stuck rebooting. Annoying, had to hit the reset switch
<zid> windows is real fucking shit at rebooting
<zid> It'll be like "SHUTTING DOWN LOL, JUST A MOMENT, YEA ALMOS DONE THERE BUDDY. OPE TWO MORE TICKS"
<zid> bitch just triplefault and get out of my life
<nikolapdp> zid just use an functioning os
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<kadvex> ngl for the past 2-3 years ive never had an issue with windows rebooting/shutting down for like 10 minutes
* zid scratches onyx off his list of software nikolapdp allows him to run
<nikolapdp> lol
<sham1> Just use Linux bro
<sham1> But, like, for real bro
<zid> I'd have to use a bunch of Qt software
<zid> and I fucking hate Qt
<sham1> What did Qt ever do to you
<zid> it's slow and shitty and written in C++
<kadvex> ew
<kadvex> c++
<sham1> It's not like you have to write the C++ in that. You'll be fine
<sham1> You could also use stuff done in Gtk
<zid> hardly anything supports gtk
<zid> sad but true
<zid> There's the "we have a gui version but we're mainly a command line program" thing that support gtk
<zid> like qemu and gnuplot or whatever
<zid> but all the 'software' is qt
<nortti> such as?
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<zid> 'quick name a woman'
<zid> erm
<zid> dirstat
<zid> qbittorrent
<zid> command line -> C -> GTk, 'app' -> C++ -> qt
<zid> is the basic jist
<sham1> Firefox uses Gtk
<nortti> there's transmission-gtk for torrents. dunno exactly what dirstat does, just getting results for windirstat
<sham1> As does Chromium, sorta
<zid> yea windirstat is the windows port
<zid> of a qt app
<zid> qdirstat
<zid> kdirstat
<zid> (it's fucking great for cleaning up your disgusting torrents drive filled with random shite)
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<sham1> Just use Emacs for that with dired
<nikolapdp> use ncdu in the terminal
<zid> eww
<zid> you guys are gross
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<nikolapdp> you're the one using windows here
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<zid> Yes, because I don't want to be stuck pouring over text dumps of what should be pictures
<zid> so your "use ncdu lol" doesn't actually give you any ammo here
<nikolapdp> i mean it does its job perfectly fine
<zid> Then you don't use it for what I use windirstat for
<zid> cleaning up 4TB of assorted files
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<sham1> Emacs can actually display images just fine, even when using dired
<zid> dire d?
<sham1> Directory editor
<zid> yea but
<zid> I don't need it to 'display images'
<zid> I need the heatmap nonsense and collapsable sorted thing
<nikolapdp> ncdu then
<nikolapdp> that one, yes
<sham1> Might be able to make that output DOT and then render it with graphviz
<zid> you're telling me this is a replacement for https://www.vladan.fr/wp-content/uploads/images/Winirstat.jpg this?
<sham1> Yes
<zid> you guys are insane
<zid> I am well aware I could just write 10MB of lisp and gtk to *reimplement windirstat*
<zid> that does not make emacs windirstat
<nikolapdp> well you could use the original version that was ported from
<zid> it's qt
<zid> You guys have lost the plot as well as your minds
<nikolapdp> so it would function basically the same as windows version?
<zid> no because I'd have to compile BOOST first
<zid> and that package is backlisted sorry
<zid> I don't have the 512GB of ram you need to compile it
<zid> with 2 threads
<nikolapdp> lol i forget you're on gentoo
<nikolapdp> fair enough then
<zid> (I just really dislike qt apps)
<zid> 'switch to linux' -> 'I don't like qt' -> 'name something that's qt' -> 'qdirstat' -> 'JUST REWRITE IT IN LISP LOL'
<nikolapdp> meh i am indifferent as long as i don't have to compiler them
<zid> year of desktop linux any day now
<nikolapdp> i am pretty sure most people aren't going to be compiling their qt software so you know
<heat_> onyx
<zid> I said that was a joke and that I just don't like qt
<heat_> qemu is most definitely GUI-centric
<zid> I've never used its gui
<zid> ever
<zid> what does it look like?
<heat_> how tf do you have a display then?
<sham1> Rudimentary
<zid> I've used the graphical display options yes
<sham1> heat_: clearly he only uses the serial output
<zid> I've never used its *gui*
<gagaist> you can use qemu in curses mode
<zid> I have it set to SDL I think or something
<heat_> mommy said i shouldn't curse
<zid> for its graphical ootpot
<zid> heat_: I'll switch to onyx if you port compiz fusion to it
<heat_> oh lawd
<zid> compiz fusion is legit the reason I ran linux for several years
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<heat_> wait, do you actually use those silly effects?
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<zid> I liked knowing it was there, but I basically only used the fact it had alt-tab effects in practice
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<sham1> Wobbly windows!
<gagaist> used the window shuffle feature
<gagaist> that was cute
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<bslsk05> ​www.pagetable.com: Apple Lisa Operating System Reference Manual (PDF, 1983) – pagetable.com
<zid> GeDaMo is it monday yet
<GeDaMo> Mmmm ... no
<zid> shit
<zid> what about now?
<GeDaMo> Is this an anime thing? :P
<zid> book!
<zid> honzukihonzukihonzuki
<zid> I've only got like, 6 bit log sensation
<zid> touch, graze, poke, shove, punch, ow, OW FUCK, dismemberment, in 64 levels
<zid> but all the accuracy is down at the low end
<nortti> GeDaMo: personally can recommend the manga of that, but not really the anime unless you're into high concept time travel story that more treats the gamedev for 90s computers as set dressing
<GeDaMo> I'm not into manga / anime, I thought zid might be interested
<zid> god no
<GeDaMo> :D
<GeDaMo> Anime wasn't really a thing in the UK when I was a kid, the only two I can remember are Marine Boy and some giant robot thing
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<bslsk05> ​www.tomshardware.com: Early Snapdragon X Elite benchmark shows Arm CPU is faster than AMD's top-end mobile APU | Tom's Hardware
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<nikolapdp> i won't believe it until i see it
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<M_D_K> GeDaMo: Gundam maybe?
<GeDaMo> That's not old enough
<M_D_K> oh, then I'm out of ideas. giant mecha animes is a really big set apparently...
<M_D_K> I ask what colour it was but chances are it was red :/
<GeDaMo> It was black and white :|
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<bslsk05> ​'Paradox got mouse support now! (And started on windows)' by kevinalavik (00:00:06)
<heat_> the guy is re-reading the cursor and re-parsing the .tga every time he moves the mouse
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<nikolapdp> much performance
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<gagaist> oof
<heat_> gagaist, i confuse your new name with geist :(
gagaist is now known as gog
<gog> sorry
<heat_> this is less confusing
<heat_> but dont feel the need to hide your gaga stanning
<geist> I AM HERE
<heat_> NOW THERE ARE TWO OF THEM
<geist> gosh i really gotta osdev
<geist> i'm so behind
<nikolapdp> aren't we all
<nikolapdp> not heat though
<heat_> i'm wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy ahead of everyone
<gog> i was osdevving today!!
<gog> i still am a little but i hit a wall
<heat_> are you hurt?
<gog> yes
<heat_> *ba dum tss*
<gog> i'm always hurting
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<gog> i'm the saddest girl in the universe
<heat_> :(
<gog> jk sorta
<gog> but also what i'm doing is kinda cursed as i alluded to
<gog> but it actually works
<nikolapdp> how cursed are we talking about gog
<gog> i'm abusing ELF dynamic linking
<nikolapdp> oh that can get cursed
<bslsk05> ​github.com: sophia/kjarna_runtime/dynamic_x86_64.c at kjarna · adachristine/sophia · GitHub
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<nikolapdp> what's a kjarna
<gog> it means "seed"
<nikolapdp> oh yeah that does look cursed
<gog> there's an EFI part that implements the fake syscall wrappers
<nikolapdp> great lol
<heat_> gog have you been mixing tabs and spaces?!??!!?
<gog> what? no
<gog> maybe
<gog> i actually don't know but now that you said something i think something is up with my editor config
<gog> smh my head
<heat_> clang-format automatically deals with it for .c and .cpp files on my end
<geist> years ago i added the config to vim to show tabs and trailing spaces as little marks and it makes that stuff stick out horribly
<geist> one way to deal with it
<gog> i think i need to do that
<heat_> but i still have some weirdness in some .S files for some reason
<heat_> oh eww not the little marks :(
<geist> `set listchars=tab:>\ ,trail:.`
<gog> in start_x86_64.S ?
<heat_> no, *my* .S files
<gog> i saw something weird there today and i just corrected it, or thought i did
<geist> and yeah i haven't found anything that knows how to deal with .S files, gotta do those manually
<gog> ohhh
<bslsk05> ​github.com: sophia/kjarna_runtime/dynamic_x86_64.c at kjarna · adachristine/sophia · GitHub
<nikolapdp> one way to deal with it in vim is gg=G
<gog> itrue
<gog> but it doens't know how to format .S files it seems
<gog> or at least it doesn't have sensible rules to
<gog> i guess it's hard to when the structure can be a bit arbitrary
<nikolapdp> yeah that can be tricky
<nikolapdp> nut .s files are usually short so not that hard to check manually
<geist> hmm, what's the gg=G thing?
<gog> gg goes to start of file, = format, G to end of file
<heat_> yeah but switching tabs for spaces shouldn't count as "formatting"
<nikolapdp> go to the top of the file, reindend to until the end
<geist> oh oh you mean type that, got t
<nikolapdp> yup
<geist> i was thinking it was a 'set gg = G' thing
<nikolapdp> heat_ it does
<nikolapdp> geist heh no
<nikolapdp> that would be weird
<gog> gg no re
<heat_> well that's your problem, vscode can do it natively without a formatter
<geist> once it finds a few GB of your machine to use
<gog> i don't use vscode
<heat_> javascript mess > lua mess
<gog> i was using it but it's been a pain in my ass
<nikolapdp> i use vim, not neovim heat
<gog> so i stopped
<nikolapdp> it's vimscript mess
<gog> i use neovim
<gog> i'm _sorry_ ok
<nikolapdp> what are you sorry for gog
<heat_> neovim is better than vim
<gog> for using neovim
<nikolapdp> why don't you use either then
<geist> i should give it a go, honestly. been using proper gvim/vim for years
<heat_> use clion!
<gog> don't edit source files
<gog> ever
<heat_> or haaaaaaaaaave you heard of eclispe
<gog> heat no
<geist> honeslty i dot mind vscode that much, but i just find myself go-toing vim since it's always there and a lot of time i'm over ssh
<nikolapdp> heat_ you joke be we use it for c projects at uni
<geist> vscode is great for rust
<nikolapdp> vim is good with rust if you install the lsp
<geist> and with vim bindings of course
<geist> yah
<heat_> nikolapdp, use what?
<gog> for the osdev stuff i've tried to use other editors and even kdevelop for awhile but i just use none of the features or grow frustrated with them when they get in my way
<nikolapdp> vim or neovim
<gog> nvim and a fullscreen terminal is great'
<gog> 1080p, 10pt font
<nikolapdp> gog i usually use vims builtin terminal lol
<nikolapdp> in a vertical split
<gog> this bad girl can fit three source files side-by-side
<nikolapdp> very fancy
<gog> yes
<heat_> GNU SCREEN GNU SCREEN GNU SCREEN
<gog> TMUX TMUX TMUX
<nikolapdp> TMUX TMUX
<nikolapdp> let's go gog
<heat_> plus gnu ed
<heat_> use gnu ed
<heat_> gnu ed
<gog> no
<nikolapdp> i did use ed
<heat_> yes
<nikolapdp> on unix 7
<gog> i'm not that much of a masochist
<heat_> ed is great and all you need for text editing
<heat_> if you need more than ed you're wrong and stupid
<nikolapdp> gog: re abusing dynamic linking: libgccjit generate shared objects which it loads
<nikolapdp> so it's basically calling regular gcc lol
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<heat_> what
<heat_> libgccjit *is* gcc
<heat_> that's the whole point
<nikolapdp> yeah that's what i am saying
<gog> i don't think i can link all of gcc into my project currently
<heat_> good
<gog> what if it was clang
<nikolapdp> don't think it would change much
<heat_> don't embed compilers
<nikolapdp> yeah
<heat_> the only vm you can embed is the jvm
<nikolapdp> are you sure that's a good idea
<heat_> idk it sounds like a good idea
<heat_> maybe you should give it a try in your definitely-real pdp11
<gog> i do kind want to try that JIT in kernel thing
<gog> with that paper from 1993
<gog> i still probably lack some technical understanding to actually accomplish it but i'm workign on it
<nikolapdp> heat_ not running jvm is a feature
<heat_> gog wdym
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<gog> the paper descibes a kernel that re-links itself with various optimizations
<nikolapdp> that sounds kind of cursed, not going to lie
<gog> like transforming an indirect branch to a direct
<gog> when it can
<heat_> sounds like PGO with extra steps
<gog> it's basically that but during runtime
<gog> hear me out man what if *hits blunt* the kernel depessimized itself
<heat_> what if the crapper decrapperified itself
<heat_> what if poop
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<nikolapdp> what a great idea heat_
<heat_> behold heat, inventor of poop
<gog> :(
<gog> you'll all see
<gog> but probably not
<gog> because i really don't think i can make it work
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<heat> what do the arrow keys do in top(1)?
<heat> i can't tell
<heat> up and down don't seem to scroll? unless there's a lot of weirdness due to it not updating constantly
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<nikolapdp> up and down do scroll from what i can tell
<nikolapdp> but the display is chaotic
<nikolapdp> so it's hard to notice until you get to the sleeping threads
<nikolapdp> heat ^
<geistvax> or maybe if you have the refresh set too high you can't get anywhere before it redraws it
<geistvax> < and > are neat though, it changes the sort field
<nikolapdp> oh that's what that deos
<nikolapdp> *does
<geistvax> yah you can also add more fields, i usually add a field to indicate how much swap a given process is using
<geistvax> and the number of minor and major page faults
<nikolapdp> how do you do that
<geistvax> oh i forget off the tpo of my head, use ? to bring up the help
<geistvax> note this is gnu top we're talking about
<nikolapdp> that's a lot of options
<geistvax> 'f' brings up fields
<geistvax> and ten you can move around, select which ones to display and change their order
<nikolapdp> yeah handy
<geistvax> remember to save your setting with 'W' when you're done
<nikolapdp> yup
<gog> gnu bottom
<nikolapdp> non gog, gnu top, pay attention
<geistvax> gnu safe word
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