#osdev on 2024-02-08 — irc logs at libera.irclog.whitequark.org

2021-05-23 01:57 klange changed the topic of #osdev to: Operating System Development || Don't ask to ask---just ask! || For 3+ LoC, use a pastebin (for example https://gist.github.com/) || Stats + Old logs: http://osdev-logs.qzx.com New Logs: https://libera.irclog.whitequark.org/osdev || Visit https://wiki.osdev.org and https://forum.osdev.org || Books: https://wiki.osdev.org/Books

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02:29 <zid> gog: I am slowly getting the hang of train signals, my megabase now produces IRON STICK

02:32 <zid> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1118192192440250368/1204924961014161418/image.png

02:34 <gog> that... that makes no sense to do

02:35 <zid> It's GLORIOUS fyi.

02:35 <zid> What if I need some iron sticks!?

02:35 <gog> i have no counterargument

02:35 <gog> proceed

02:37 <Mondenkind> shouldn't you have two iron stick mines

02:37 <Mondenkind> for redundancy ya know

02:37 <zid> good idea

02:39 <zid> gog: I should ship in just iron ore next time is what you're saying?

02:39 <gog> yes

02:39 <Mondenkind> yeah make the iron sticks where you need them

02:39 <Mondenkind> it's like just in time compilation

02:39 <gog> yes

02:39 <zid> nooo that's borrring (and binpacky)

02:40 <zid> I actually just wanted to get the rail signals working

02:40 <zid> and I wanna make more rails

02:40 <zid> my base is about a 10 minute walk away

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03:32 <zid> Norrti says my pakkidj arrives soon, we get to find out where they lie on the prankster scale soon

03:32 <zid> does it explode? contain a sex toy? nothing at all?

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09:48 <kazinsal> just discovered that my old work keyboard absolutely shits out RFI and my headphones pick it up

09:48 <kazinsal> fantastic

09:48 <GeDaMo> Can you tell which keys are being pressed form the sounds? :P

09:49 <kazinsal> it's the LED backlighting. if I turn it off, no more RFI

09:49 <kazinsal> so I bet if I turned on the mode where it lights up keys as I press them, yes, the local neighbourhood NSA Wizard could probably discern my keystrokes

09:51 <kazinsal> oh, even more fantastic. it seems to be something with the circuit that regulates the dimming of the LEDs

09:51 <kazinsal> if it's off or at full brightness, no RFI

09:51 <kazinsal> anywhere dimmed in the middle, the RFI strength corresponds to the brightness

09:52 <GeDaMo> PWM?

09:52 <kazinsal> that's my guess

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14:58 <heat_> kernel

14:58 <zid> kernal

14:58 <zid> heat why is the ioporting upside down on the amstrad

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14:59 <heat_> i dont know what an amstrad is

15:01 <Mutabah> Wasn't that an early UK computer?

15:01 <zid> yea just before the spectrum

15:01 <zid> zx, not sinclair

15:02 <zid> wait they're the same

15:02 <zid> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amstrad_CPC

15:02 <Mutabah> zid: what do you mean by "upside down" here?

15:02 <zid> out (c), a

15:02 <zid> actually puts BC onto the address bus

15:03 <zid> and all normal systems use the low bits to address decode which io port is being discussed

15:03 <zid> the amstrad uses B

15:07 <heat_> if its so upside down are you sure it isn't australian

15:07 <zid> very

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16:18 <nortti> < zid> Norrti says my pakkidj arrives soon, we get to find out where they lie on the prankster scale soon ← I'll send it out tomorrow, but dunno how long it'll take to arrive

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16:30 <zid> How fast is a reindeer

16:32 <nortti> seem to get up to 50–60 km/h in reindeer track racing

16:34 <nortti> going by https://paliskunnat.fi/poro/porokilpailut/porocup/ which sadly doesn't seem to have an english page

16:34 <bslsk05> paliskunnat.fi: Poro Cup - Poro ja poronhoito

16:35 <zid> Let's pretend they're doing it in a mail train style, passing off after each reindeer gets tired

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16:35 <zid> helsinki to london as a rough guide is 1800km, so we need 36 hours

16:36 <nortti> I'm not sure reindeer can do quite as fast on water as they can on land

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16:53 <heat_> https://valerieaurora.org/fragquiz.html

16:53 <bslsk05> valerieaurora.org: Fragquiz: test your IP fragmentation knowledge

16:54 <heat_> ugh, it unpacks to the top directory

16:54 <heat_> downvote

16:57 <zid> zipbomb fml

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16:57 <zid> I need to write a patch for tar I can alias on by default

16:57 <zid> that makes it fail if anything other than a directory is in .

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16:59 <zid> gog: Every train stop now comes with a requester chest asking for rocket fuel that I just added

16:59 <zid> all 5 of the trains *working very hard*

16:59 <zid> definitely not just leaving it open, and moving spider around with the remote to build rails once an hour

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17:02 <gog> ls

17:02 <zid> . .. factorio.txt

17:02 <gog> zid: cool trains

17:02 <heat_> my network's ipv6 ttl seems to be all kinds of fucked :(

17:02 <zid> my wsl doesn't have ipv6

17:02 <zid> how do I make it have it

17:03 <zid> I've tried to do this under vmware before and all I managed to do was disconnect my irc on my windows a lot

17:03 <heat_> i unno

17:04 <zid> # go run .

17:04 <zid> bash: go: command not found

17:04 <zid> or go

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18:34 <gorgonical> the islands exploding again. Just read an article that makes it sound like a war's happening: "Defences are holding well as line is built to stop advance"

18:35 <gog> who

18:35 <gog> oh yeah

18:35 <gog> we

18:35 <gorgonical> yeah

18:35 <gorgonical> island

18:35 <gog> ísland

18:36 <gorgonical> EEEsland

18:36 <gorgonical> oh wait I have that key, ísland

18:36 <gog> that call it that because of how much ice cream is eaten here

18:36 <gorgonical> the only icecream I had there was sour yogurt flavored and it was gross

18:37 <gog> you didn't have rugbrauð?

18:37 <gog> shame

18:37 <gorgonical> ...flavored ice cream?

18:37 <gog> yes

18:37 <gorgonical> I wish I had. That sounds great

18:37 <gog> it has bits of the sweet rye bread and malt syrup

18:38 <gog> it's really really good

18:38 <gorgonical> Might have to make some. I have an ice cream machine and we've made some interesting flavors

18:38 <gog> when i get ice cream i always get at least a scoop of that

18:48 <mcrod> hi

18:48 * mcrod scratch gog head

18:48 <geist> yeah watching iceland lava stuff here

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18:49 <geist> looks like the berms are holding

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18:52 <gog> i saw a news story about how they found a big hole in the floor of the indoor soccer field in grindavík

18:53 <zid> was it full of MAGMA

18:53 <zid> Is it monday yet, more importantly

18:55 <heat_> no

18:55 <zid> fuck

18:56 <heat_> geist, random q, but is lazily shooting down the TLB on protection upgrades (say, from R-- to RW-) a legit strategy? as in, does any system do that?

18:57 <heat_> basically avoid the TLB shootdown by taking spurious page faults if needed

18:57 <heat_> it vaguely reminds me of the riscv thing, where you avoid broadcasting the sfence.vma on mapping pages

18:57 <heat_> i just don't know if this is actually good

19:02 <zid> sounds good to me?

19:02 <zid> protection faults are in the slow-path anyway

19:02 <zid> and you need to eat an interrupt *anyway* if you were doing a shootdown, just this way it's a PF not an IPI

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19:47 <heat_> yeah i guess

19:48 <heat_> it was just never an obvious optimization to me

19:48 <heat_> particularly as doing protection upgrades is somewhat rare? like how many times do you go PROT_READ -> PROT_READ | PROT_WRITE

19:49 <heat_> oh, when undoing write protection (so, CoW or MAP_SHARED dirty tracking)

19:49 <heat_> yeah this may be somewhat worth it

19:59 <mjg> i bet there is a sunos vm paper describing all the worthwhile stuff

19:59 <mjg> the rest is a waste of time

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20:17 <zid> https://preview.redd.it/y1dpl71phdhc1.jpeg?width=768&auto=webp&s=37885f18efe39e7af664549766cad63f331ab005

20:17 <bslsk05> redirect -> www.reddit.com: Blocked

20:17 <zid> agreed

20:21 <zid> @ nikolar

20:21 <nikolar> The best for last

20:22 <zid> also, whois me

20:24 <zid> Do you think they'll send me a free bottle if I send them an email from this address

20:25 <adder> I'm not sure what's happening here.

20:25 <adder> Do you own vucijarakija.rs?

20:26 <zid> I did it with a portguese dentist or something and heat got very very confused

20:26 <adder> :)

20:26 <zid> myos.pt, pretty good #osdev domain :P

20:27 <adder> Is just your ptr record pointing to vucijarakija?

20:27 <adder> And how would that be "legal"?

20:27 <zid> There's a silly trick that I am not at liberty to say

20:27 <zid> Unless you pay me a gajillion doll hairs

20:29 <adder> Come on. I'm listening. :P

20:34 <zid> He paid, I told. I'm such a slut.

20:35 Nixkernal has quit [Quit: https://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.]

20:36 <zid> https://i.imgur.com/DOIVprd.mp4 back to the magma mines for me

20:36 <bslsk05> i.imgur.com <no title>

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21:10 <heat_> mjg, do you think i should email bill joy

21:11 <heat_> btw, yes, national association against fibromyalgia, fucking hilarious

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21:14 <nikolar> zid nice domain

21:14 <zid> myos.pt is a *great* ##osdev domain though you have to admit

21:14 <mjg> i thought he is dead?

21:14 <zid> nikolapdp: Thank you!

21:14 <zid> Yours is okay too I guess

21:16 <heat_> ok, C question

21:16 <nikolar> Oh boy

21:16 <zid> aliasing rules

21:16 <heat_> size_t foo(void);

21:16 <heat_> int a = foo();

21:16 <heat_> is this legal?

21:16 <zid> yes

21:16 <nikolar> Yes

21:16 <heat_> thanks

21:16 <zid> in exactly the same way char a = 4; is legal

21:16 <nikolar> It's legal just not what you want

21:16 <zid> -Wconversion will warn for it, if you want

21:17 <nikolar> Different sizes and singednesses

21:17 <zid> and maybe some others cus of the sign

21:17 <zid> *maybe* different sizes, sadly

21:17 <zid> so x86 might not warn

21:17 <zid> even though it should for others

21:18 <nikolar> Yeah fair enough

21:18 <Mondenkind> what does x86 have to do with it

21:19 <zid> it's fewer characters than "systems where size_t is 32bit"

21:20 <heat_> ia-32

21:20 <heat_> i386

21:20 <zid> shorter than that, too

21:20 <zid> and that

21:20 <heat_> 32

21:20 <nikolar> Lol

21:20 <heat_> what arch u run

21:20 <heat_> i run 32

21:20 <heat_> thank

21:20 <zid> Do you run it on a 32 processor

21:21 <heat_> y

21:21 <zid> 32-32-gcc.exe

21:21 <heat_> 32gcc

21:21 <heat_> 32gc

21:21 <heat_> 32c

21:21 <Mondenkind> i686-pc-linux-gnu-gcc

21:21 <heat_> intel-architecture-sixty-four-gnu-slash-linux-kernel-gnu-c-compiler

21:22 <mjg> lol-mac-onyx-gnu-gcc

21:22 <mjg> i ported onyx to m1

21:22 <heat_> that's great, send patchen

21:22 <mjg> need to clean it up before i submit a PR

21:22 <Mondenkind> ITANIUM SPOTTED

21:22 <Mondenkind> ITANIUM

21:22 <Mondenkind> V

21:22 <heat_> extended-memory-sixty-four-technology

21:22 <Mondenkind> L

21:22 <Mondenkind> I

21:22 <Mondenkind> W

21:22 <heat_> Mondenkind, i sayd intel architecture sixty four

21:22 <Mondenkind> yeah

21:22 <heat_> not eye ey sixty four

21:22 <mjg> Very Large Invalid Wankers

21:23 <zid> What about EMT-64, emergent medical technology #64

21:23 <heat_> intel trotsky'd ia64 from existence

21:23 <Mondenkind> what do you think the eye ey is short for

21:23 <heat_> eye ey

21:23 <zid> Man, youtuber pranks are getting extreme

21:23 <zid> I just got suggested a video and it's titled "atomic bombing hroshima and nagasaki"

21:24 <heat_> what does x86 stand for?

21:24 <Mondenkind> ecks eighty six

21:24 <Mondenkind> duh

21:24 <heat_> if it stands for 86 x's

21:24 <heat_> did we have a xxx84

21:24 <heat_> and if so, how steaming hot is that CPU?

21:24 <zid> we found the value of x btw

21:24 <zid> it's 1.8

21:25 <heat_> why is SPARC called SPARC and not SPARK

21:25 <heat_> are they stupid?

21:25 <gorgonical> ackitecture

21:26 <gorgonical> I can't spell and fucked up the joke

21:27 <gorgonical> I feel like I have a brain virus. Recently I've been thinking I should somehow acquire a POWER system so I can port my risc-v forth to it

21:28 <mjg> heat_: i'm guessing SPARK was already taken by someone's dog

21:28 <mjg> and they did not want to overload the name

21:28 <mjg> little accidents of history!

21:28 <Mondenkind> heat_: spark is already a word

21:28 <Mondenkind> look it up in the dictionary

21:28 <Mondenkind> you idiot

21:28 <heat_> mjg, did you know the S in sparc means scalable

21:28 <heat_> Mondenkind, fuck you

21:28 <heat_> 1v1 one me

21:28 <Mondenkind> don't tell me what to do

21:29 <gorgonical> end of the week vibes today

21:29 <Mondenkind> especially when you don't even know what spark means

21:29 <heat_> it's thursday

21:29 <gorgonical> some people don't work friday

21:29 <gorgonical> many people mentally don't work friday

21:30 <mjg> some people don't work

21:30 <gorgonical> end of the week vibes everyday/never

21:32 <heat_> gorgonical, your kernel

21:32 <heat_> is it uhhh

21:32 <heat_> better than openbsd yet

21:32 <mjg> OH

21:33 <gorgonical> define better

21:33 <mjg> scaling better than openbsd is rite of passage

21:33 <mjg> for beginner programmers

21:34 <heat_> gorgonical, faster safer stronger more readable with less stuck up people

21:34 <Mondenkind> less stuck up? i mean

21:34 * Mondenkind looks around

21:34 <heat_> did you know Onyx has 0 (zero) CVEs

21:34 <Mondenkind> idk everybody's kinda stuck up

21:34 <gorgonical> probably less safe, but those other ones probably. The research kernel I work on was designed for HPC originally so it is very fast and scalable

21:35 <heat_> how many CVEs does it have?

21:35 <gorgonical> My forth kernel doesn't even have interrupts yet because I haven't been working on it

21:35 <gorgonical> 0 because in order to submit one you have to contact the government, and nobody does that

21:35 <heat_> if it has 0 (zero) CVEs then you're beating (beating) OpenBSD in the OpenBSD+LibreSSL security scale

21:35 <Mondenkind> fuck the government

21:36 <heat_> <Mondenkind> idk everybody's kinda stuck up

21:36 <heat_> this is actually a fair point

21:36 <gorgonical> it's completely secure as evidenced by the total lack of CVEs, agreed

21:36 <heat_> very hard to write a kernel without being stuck-up

21:36 <nikolar> heat_ you're making me want to find vulnerabilities in your kernel

21:36 <heat_> do it

21:36 <nikolar> Are you going to pay me

21:36 <heat_> send me a patch fixing it even, i dare you

21:36 <heat_> no

21:36 <nikolar> Lol

21:39 <zid> My kernel has legit 0 exploits

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21:54 <nikolapdp> heat_ what the hell is gn

21:54 <sham1> A googleware build system thing

21:55 <heat_> cuhrrect

21:55 <sham1> Just gotta make sure that Google doesn't cancel gn just like they do with all of their other proejcts

21:55 <heat_> it's open source

21:56 <sham1> So is Dart

21:56 <heat_> worst case you stop getting new features

21:56 <heat_> like, ninja will always take ninja

21:56 <zid> when are they cancelling Go

21:56 <sham1> When Rob Pike gets bored

21:56 <heat_> when is go getting renamed to stop

21:56 <gorgonical> lmao

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22:11 <dhs> question about x86 exceptions: the IDT page https://wiki.osdev.org/IDT says that exceptions should be handled with trap gates

22:11 <bslsk05> wiki.osdev.org: Interrupt Descriptor Table - OSDev Wiki

22:11 <dhs> but the interrupts tutorial https://wiki.osdev.org/Interrupts_tutorial appears to handle them with interrupt gates

22:11 <bslsk05> wiki.osdev.org: Interrupts Tutorial - OSDev Wiki

22:12 <zid> x86 gates? pass.

22:12 <zid> Have never used trap gates, nor seen anybody else use them

22:12 <gorgonical> uh isn't the difference whether it's a trap or an interrupt/fault? like if the control flow change happens before or after instruction?

22:13 <gorgonical> I used to know what the difference between trap/interrupt was

22:13 <zid> I don't see this top page claiming this

22:13 <dhs> from the IDT page: "A Trap Gate should be used to handle Exceptions."

22:14 <zid> let's rephrase

22:14 <zid> "Trap Gates should only be used to handle Exceptions."

22:14 <zid> It doesn't say you *should* use trap gates, just that if they're used, it should be for exceptions

22:15 <heat_> is the trap gate the gate that auto-disables interrupts for you?

22:15 <gorgonical> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/3149175/what-is-the-difference-between-trap-and-interrupt

22:15 <bslsk05> stackoverflow.com: x86 - What is the difference between Trap and Interrupt? - Stack Overflow

22:15 <heat_> you're supposed to use that one

22:15 <gorgonical> This answer explains it reasonably well

22:15 <heat_> gorgonical, it does not

22:15 <heat_> not in this case

22:15 <zid> interrupts disable interrupts

22:15 <heat_> ok, use that one

22:15 <gorgonical> heat_: yeah tbf it doesn't say what the mechanical difference between them is other than the pc it returns to

22:17 <gorgonical> okay this one actually explains it

22:17 <gorgonical> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/3425085/the-difference-between-call-gate-interrupt-gate-trap-gate

22:17 <dhs> so no real reason to use trap gates then? even with the trap exception types?

22:17 <bslsk05> stackoverflow.com: x86 - The difference between Call Gate, Interrupt Gate, Trap Gate? - Stack Overflow

22:19 <zid> I think that page legitimately means 'exceptions' not 'Exceptions (x86)'

22:19 <zid> as in, C++

22:19 <heat_> dhs, no

22:19 <zid> heat when is your kernel enabling exceptions, using trap gates

22:19 <gorgonical> other than allowing preemption in the handler, i think not

22:20 <heat_> in theory you don't need to disable interrupts when entering a trap handler, but it simplifies the code

22:20 zxrom has quit [Quit: Leaving]

22:20 <zid> gorgonical: to be fair, we allow that anyway after like 10 instructions

22:20 <gorgonical> indeed

22:20 <heat_> like, if irqs are off you don't need to save and restore CR2

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22:24 <dhs> zid: heat_: gorgonical: ty for the info

22:37 <zid> gog: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1118192192440250368/1205281189888401468/image.png

22:37 <zid> Base does Real Things(tm) now

22:41 <nikolapdp> still a starter base though

22:41 <gorgonical> iron bus isn't 8 belts wide? starter base

22:42 <zid> What iron bus

22:44 <gog> based and train pilled

22:45 <gog> trains are waaaay moreefficient than belt buses

22:45 <zid> You told me not to make sticks but I did it anyway

22:45 <gorgonical> any of you play the overhauls like krastorio?

22:45 <gog> i've chosen to ignore that you're doing this because maybe you're just building that many tracks

22:45 <zid> This should be enough rails for a couple of purple science

22:45 <zid> yea k2 is great

22:45 <zid> like vanilla++

22:45 <gog> and yeh purple science

22:45 <zid> You can still finish it with just spaghetti <3

22:45 <gorgonical> i've been thinking about playing it but vanilla became so tiresome with the spaghetti at the end

22:46 <zid> good news gorgonical

22:46 <gog> trains

22:46 <zid> I only ever build spaghetti bases and I enjoyed k2 a lot

22:46 <gog> trans

22:46 <gorgonical> obviously my first playthrough i didn't know what the bus needed to have in it so it was all sorts of refactoring

22:46 <zid> This is my first RAILWORLD

22:46 <gorgonical> I have learned that compactness is a sin in factorio, not a virtue

22:46 <zid> I tried SE, got to space, but fell off hard, tooo much complicated logistics

22:47 <zid> gog: I figure 1 train of rails, 1 train of prod modules, and 1 train of furnaces, should be the perfect amount of purple science

22:47 <heat_> gog, transtrains

22:48 <zid> 4 red belts of prod module 1s might take a couple of small green circuit builds though

22:48 <heat_> btw have you considered not using trains

22:48 <heat_> just a nice big highway

22:48 <heat_> lots of lanes

22:48 <zid> no, I never use highways

22:48 <heat_> just one more lane bro

22:48 <heat_> please please one more lane bro i swear it'll fix traffic

22:48 <gorgonical> follow-up question, when doing the analysis for production do you actually chart out "each circuit takes 4 copper wire and 1.2s to fab, so that's a throughput of this and that"

22:48 <gorgonical> and then balance it for no bottlenecks?

22:49 <gorgonical> Or just "more lines go brr"

22:49 <heat_> no bottlenecks? RCU

22:49 <heat_> wait, wrong topic

22:49 <zid> gorgonical: There's a calculator for that, I used it once

22:49 <gorgonical> oh shit there is?

22:49 <zid> I wanted to make a red belt of each pack, so I just asked it how many miners I needed on copper

22:49 <gorgonical> i did it by hand like a fucking dork

22:50 <nikolapdp> lol

22:50 <gorgonical> and it wasn't even right

22:50 <zid> gorgonical: https://kirkmcdonald.github.io/calc.html#tab=graph&data=1-1-19&items=production-science-pack:r:600

22:50 <bslsk05> kirkmcdonald.github.io: Factorio Calculator

22:50 <sham1> Of course that's a thing

22:51 <zid> to make 600 purple science a minute you need 0.8 of a pump, 384 copper miners, 1050 iron miners, etc

22:51 <gorgonical> because at the high end with like prod modules things like wire can't be inserted/removed fast enough

22:51 <zid> I made one of these diagrams for an advent of code level

22:51 <zid> last christmas

22:51 <zid> gorgonical: direct insert wire for greens

22:51 <zid> for reds, with prod modules, they are SLOW

22:51 <zid> WWW

22:51 <zid> GG

22:51 <heat_> why does everyone here play factorio

22:51 <gorgonical> it's just a game version of a cpu basically

22:51 <zid> you lay it out like that, with 2 wire assemblers feeding into each green circuit assembler

22:52 <gorgonical> so the middle one is shared?

22:52 <sham1> Because it appeals to the same area of the brain as programming

22:52 <heat_> exactly, why would you want to play cpu simulator

22:52 <heat_> if i want to program, i program

22:52 <zid> actually I just have that in my base

22:52 <zid> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1118192192440250368/1205285011339616338/image.png

22:52 <zid> Like this

22:52 <heat_> argh, you know what i feel like doing right after programming for 8 hours? programming in a video game for 4 hours

22:52 <gorgonical> i see

22:53 <zid> That red assembler tower, cus I didn't have modules when I built it, is like 120 assemblers tall, to use a red belt of copper wire

22:54 <nikolapdp> heat_ this is more like hardware design

22:54 <nikolapdp> very different

22:54 <gorgonical> and it's accessible even if you're bad, which things like chisel design aren't

22:54 <zid> It's more like trying to connect water and electricity to three houses without any crossings

22:55 <zid> (this is impossible unless you're on the surface of a torus)

22:55 <zid> oh and gas

22:55 <zid> forgor

22:56 <nikolapdp> lol

22:56 <heat_> nikolapdp, i still dont get it

22:56 <nikolapdp> i was being sarcastic

22:56 <nikolapdp> about the "very different" part

22:56 <zid> factorio's a fun game

22:56 <zid> I heard someone describe it as

22:56 <nikolapdp> oh yeah

22:56 <zid> reality, but you're allowed to remove technical debt

22:56 <nikolapdp> lol

22:57 <sham1> Pay back the technical debt

22:57 <nikolapdp> oh just write software no one uses

22:57 <nikolapdp> you can do whatever you want

22:57 <zid> https://mastodon.org.uk/@foone@digipres.club/111744846249920733

22:57 <heat_> amen brotha

22:57 <bslsk05> <foone> bad idea: ␤ I'm gonna get some other devops and we're gonna play a longform factorio multiplayer game together. ␤ we're going to have a jira, proper change management, daily standups, multipart epics to track our long-term deliverables, and set up pagerduty so that we can be alerted when there's a biter attack that needs immediate attention.

22:57 <heat_> this post was sponsored by the freebsd foundation

22:58 <zid> what if your technical debt was represented visually and sometimes got you killed?

22:58 <zid> NOW THAT'S A GAME!

22:58 <sham1> > JIRA

22:58 <sham1> I did not wish to get reminded of JIRA

22:58 <heat_> >daily standups

22:58 <nikolapdp> E>don't remind me

22:59 <zid> we hope to reach a proof of concept minimum viable product of launching the escape rocket by Q3 2025

22:59 <nikolapdp> lol

22:59 <zid> !remindme Q3 2025

23:05 <CompanionCube> also the actual graphs from a factorio mod, lol

23:08 <heat_> nikolapdp, where are the patches for all the exploits you've found

23:08 nikolapdp has quit [Remote host closed the connection]

23:08 <heat_> sorry, vulnerabilities

23:08 <heat_> damn, he ducked me

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23:10 <nikolapdp> reminder for myself, check if you're typing in ascii

23:11 <heat_> isn't it a bit weird that you keep insisting on IRC'ing from a patched up frankenunix on a made up PDP11

23:12 <nikolapdp> aren't we all weird here

23:14 <zid> heat is strange

23:14 <zid> "Why would you do nerd shit? I'm too busy doing nerd shit"

23:14 <heat_> no

23:14 dude12312414 has joined #osdev

23:14 <heat_> everything i do is implicitly cool

23:14 <nikolapdp> zid lol literally

23:15 dude12312414 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]

23:17 <heat_> nikolapdp, patchen where

23:18 <heat_> linken die patchen

23:22 <nikolapdp> kein patchen

23:23 <heat_> scheisse

23:23 <nikolapdp> ich bin lazy

23:23 <zid> Гурај свог patch у гузицу.

23:24 <nikolapdp> lol nice try zid

23:24 <zid> what

23:24 <zid> I am a fluent serbian speaker

23:25 <nikolapdp> ah yes obviously

23:25 <nikolapdp> my bad

23:25 <zid> What does it say?

23:25 <mjg> patchen sie linux?

23:25 <nikolapdp> zid it's trying to say "shove your patch up your ass"

23:25 <zid> what does it *say*

23:25 <zid> I know what I typed

23:25 <nikolapdp> well that just with wrong grammar

23:25 <zid> okay great, what does it say

23:26 <zid> Гурај свог пса у дупе

23:26 <nikolapdp> lol why doh

23:26 <nikolapdp> dog

23:26 <zid> does that one have better grammar?

23:26 <nikolapdp> yes better

23:26 <zid> okay great, so what's the difference?

23:26 <mjg> interesting

23:27 <mjg> дупa is ass in serbian?

23:27 <nikolar> дупе

23:27 <nikolapdp> but yeah

23:27 <zid> This is like pulling teeth

23:27 <mjg> same as in polish

23:27 <mjg> funny to see it in the lulalphabet

23:27 <nikolar> it's азбука thank you very much

23:27 <mjg> since the russian word is for it is different

23:27 <nikolar> loll

23:28 <zid> For example if you said "Shove dog up you're arses", and then asked what was wrong, I'd say 'dog' lacks an article, you're means you are it should be 'your' and 'arses' is plural and should be singular 'arse'

23:28 <nikolapdp> ok so you want me to go into detail, sure

23:29 <zid> 4th try lucky ftw

23:29 <nikolapdp> the first one was wrong because it didn't match the grammatical case of patch

23:29 <zid> why do nouns have cases

23:29 <zid> why do *english* nouns have cases, even

23:29 <nikolapdp> what

23:30 <zid> 'patch' was in english

23:30 <zid> I can't make it dative

23:30 <zid> or accusative

23:30 <nikolapdp> also grammatical gender didn't match

23:30 <zid> english nouns don't have genders anymore :(

23:30 <nikolapdp> they do when they enter a language that does

23:30 <zid> ergh

23:31 <nikolapdp> lol

23:32 <zid> http://www.studyserbian.com/proba/grammar/nouns_pdf/serbian-genitive-case.pdf

23:32 <zid> Will this help

23:32 goliath has quit [Quit: SIGSEGV]

23:32 <zid> I need to -a -e or -i it by the looks of it?

23:32 <zid> Patch is.. class I?

23:32 <zid> oh wait I don't want genitive? fuck, languages man

23:33 <nikolapdp> you want accusative

23:34 <zid> Was it class I though?

23:35 <heat_> https://devblogs.microsoft.com/commandline/introducing-sudo-for-windows/

23:35 <bslsk05> devblogs.microsoft.com: Introducing Sudo for Windows! - Windows Command Line

23:35 <heat_> uhhh

23:35 <heat_> uhhhh what

23:35 <zid> I thought it had 'runas'

23:36 <zid> Ваш patchа? :P

23:36 <nikolar> lol it would be свој печ actually

23:36 <nikolar> no -а

23:36 <heat_> https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/sudo/#how-is-sudo-for-windows-different-from-the-existing-runas-command

23:36 <bslsk05> learn.microsoft.com: Sudo for Windows | Microsoft Learn

23:36 <zid> You told me I had to inflect the *english*

23:36 <zid> so I am trying to do that

23:36 <nikolapdp> well it just so happens that it doesn't change in accusative lol

23:37 <zid> so then it was right to begin with?

23:37 <nikolar> свог needed to be свој

23:37 <zid> 'his own', so.. your?

23:38 <zid> vs own, is that, neuter your?

23:38 <zid> its

23:38 <nikolapdp> it's a reflexsive pronoun so refers to "you" in this case

23:38 <zid> what is

23:38 <nikolapdp> and it needed to be masculine accusative to match with patch

23:38 <nikolar> свој

23:39 <zid> my dictionary said cbor was masc and cboj was neut

23:40 <nikolapdp> well since patch acc matches nom, the prounoun needs to also be in nominative

23:40 <zid> You know you're being super confusing right?

23:40 <nikolapdp> yes i am aware lol

23:40 <zid> great!

23:40 <nikolapdp> haven't had to explain serbian to people before

23:40 <zid> or interact with another human being?

23:41 <nikolapdp> hey i am not the one scared to call a pizza place here

23:41 <zid> because apparently I'm not blazé enough

23:41 <zid> you'd be like "HELLo, ISs PISsA MAN? GIbPLS"

23:41 <nikolapdp> and i would get a pizza

23:41 <nikolapdp> unlike some

23:41 <zid> with rats on top

23:42 <nikolapdp> why rats

23:43 <gog> hi

23:43 <nikolapdp> hello gog

23:43 <gog> are we ordering rat pizza

23:43 <zid> only accidentally

23:43 <gog> can i get mine with bird intestines

23:44 <nikolapdp> what bird

23:44 <gog> any bird

23:44 <nikolapdp> got to be specific

23:44 <gog> grouse

23:44 <nikolapdp> lol random

23:45 * gog holds up spork

23:45 nikolapdp has quit [Remote host closed the connection]

23:45 <heat_> cats dont use sporks

23:45 <heat_> nikolar, LMAO WATCH YOUR UNICODE

23:45 <nikolar> lol

23:46 <Mondenkind> https://twitter.com/HalimedeMF/status/1729188905109573724

23:46 <bslsk05> twitter: <HalimedeMF> I don't respect that trans are pretending to be a dog or cat on the computer. if you really were committed to being a dog or cat you would not be on the computer.

23:46 Maja has quit [Quit: https://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.]

23:47 <heat_> bold of you to assume cats do not use compmeowters

23:49 <zid> fuck, I got parity on my 4x4, I never remember how to fix it

23:49 <klange> cats use computers all the time, the unrealistic thing is that you can understand whatew gkewjhaokghewkljagekl;ajwaghjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjj

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23:53 <nikolar> lol