klange changed the topic of #osdev to: Operating System Development || Don't ask to ask---just ask! || For 3+ LoC, use a pastebin (for example https://gist.github.com/) || Stats + Old logs: http://osdev-logs.qzx.com New Logs: https://libera.irclog.whitequark.org/osdev || Visit https://wiki.osdev.org and https://forum.osdev.org || Books: https://wiki.osdev.org/Books
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<vai> hi all
<klys> hello
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<zid> heat my PC crashed again
<zid> You need to get me a new one
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<Ermine> if you have onlyfans someone may try to donate
<zid> heat is already subscribed
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<gog> zid: mine crashed too wtf
<gog> stop it
<zid> it's heat!
<zid> I turned off pbo and shit and it still crashed
<zid> remounted the heatsink with the tiny demo tube of random paste that came with it
<zid> cus I ran out of arctic silver mounting it the first time, figured it can't hurt and might help
<zid> it survived prime95
<zid> The real test will be running yuzu again
<gog> mine is also heat i think
<zid> it's always heat, he's a dick
<gog> just regular working my max temp got to 73
<gog> no es bueno
<zid> Mine thermal throttles :D
<gog> mine is supposed to
<zid> (with avx)
<zid> It doesn't get to its FULL RATED TURBO atm :(
<gog> i've seen it get >95° and not shut down
<zid> but I ordered some more arctic.. mx-4
<gog> tfw laptop
<zid> yea laptop cpus tend to have the high tjmax
<gog> do they still make arctic ceramique
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<gog> that was my preferred stuff back in the day
<zid> idk, there's a céramique 2 though
<gog> nice
<zid> I am using arctic fans, gotta match
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<mcrod> hi
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<gog> hi
* gog hug mcrod
* mcrod hug gog
<sham1> helo
<gog> hi sham1
<gog> hug?
<sham1> Sure
* sham1 hug gog
* gog hug sham1
<gog> this is now a hugbox channel
<bl4ckb0ne> #hugdev when
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<geist> monolithic vs micro hugs
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<sbalmos> do you like one big, chest-crushing bear hug? or do you want tons of little quick hugs? it depends on the overhead of switching between huggers
<Ermine> And some of openvms hugs
<sbalmos> is open hugging better than closed hugging?
<bl4ckb0ne> are hugs considered interrupts
<sbalmos> would you want your hug to be interrupted so that someone else gets hugged?
<heat> non-maskable hugs
<netbsduser> why is everyone doing openvms now
<sbalmos> because it's open, and... vm's (plural) and containers are fun!
<sbalmos> do you want your vm to be closed?
<netbsduser> undoubtedly its kernel is of a wondrous structure, more perfect than unix, more copious than rsx11, but bearing to both of them a closer resemblance than might be explained by chance
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<netbsduser> so strong indeed that no one could look at them all without concluding that they sprung from some common source, which perhaps is no longer known
<sbalmos> besides, its child is the beautiful progeny that is the NT kernel
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<Ermine> heat: does onyx have ptys?
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<heat> Ermine, not yet
<heat> it totally could but it'd need some effort
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<mcrod> hi
<mcrod> it is hot in here
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<heat> help, help, i got lost on the interwebs and i'm now looking at IBM AIX docs
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<sham1> geist: clearly there's also nanohugs
<sbalmos> above all else, we must ensure all hugs are exohugs
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<gorgonical> Pain
<gorgonical> mremap needs to work specifically so that this application can determine its own stack size
<heat> what
<heat> how does it use mremap for that?
<gorgonical> The way musl implements pthread_getattr_np to discover stacksize
<gorgonical> Is by repeatedly attempting to mremap the stack until the OS doesn't report ENOMEM, but instead (I guess) EFAULT
<heat> while (mremap(p-l-PAGE_SIZE, PAGE_SIZE, 2*PAGE_SIZE, 0)==MAP_FAILED && errno==ENOMEM)
<heat> l += PAGE_SIZE;
<heat> WHAT THE FUCK
<gorgonical> lol yep
<heat> EW
<heat> EW
<heat> EW
<heat> EW
<heat> EW
<gorgonical> only needed when you are the parent
<gorgonical> because default_stacksize and stuff is in use for actual threads
<CompanionCube> heat: i believe AIX is also weird in that dereferencing NULL doesn't SEGV.
<heat> isn't that old System V behavior?
<heat> where NULL is just a zero page
<CompanionCube> is that common to System V? I only read about it being an IBM compiler quirk
<heat> in man 2 personality: PER_SVR4 (since Linux 1.2.0)
<heat> AT&T UNIX System V Release 4. Implies STICKY_TIMEOUTS and MMAP_PAGE_ZERO; otherwise no effect.
<heat> and MMAP_PAGE_ZERO: Map page 0 as read-only (to support binaries that depend on this SVr4 behavior).
<CompanionCube> huh
<gorgonical> glibc actually does use the default
<gorgonical> But musl goes "above and beyond"
<heat> thank you musl
<CompanionCube> https://www.mono-project.com/news/2018/05/29/mono-on-aix-and-ibm-i/ is where i remembered it being mentioned, includes bonus weird OS
<bslsk05> ​www.mono-project.com: Introducing Mono on AIX and IBM i | Mono
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<gorgonical> Does this behavior in musl imply that I could just spam the shit out of the OS by repeatedly calling pthread_getattr_np on the root process? It doesn't actually cache the computed values anywhere
<heat> yes
<gorgonical> So if *you* as the user process don't cache that pthread_attr_t for the root process you are just going to needlessly bother the OS every time you want it back
<heat> yes
<gorgonical> wtf yo
<heat> with STACK SIZE/4096 calls each time
<heat> it's brilliant
<gorgonical> Seems especially strange considering that the threads *do* have this information cached in their pthread_t struct
<gorgonical> ...
<heat> can you modify musl or are you running programs as-is?
<gorgonical> I could modify musl
<gorgonical> Is there a really strong reason not to just assume that the stacksize for the root process is whatever ld.so sets as the default?
<heat> ld.so doesn't map the stack
<gorgonical> No but it does set the internal default_stacksize for future thraeds
<heat> the sizes aren't the same
<gorgonical> else if (ph->p_type == PT_GNU_STACK) {
<gorgonical> __default_stacksize = ph->p_memsz < DEFAULT_STACK_MAX ? ph->p_memsz : DEFAULT_STACK_MAX;
<gorgonical> if (!runtime && ph->p_memsz > __default_stacksize) {
<gorgonical> Sorry for linespam
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<heat> musl's thread stack size is comically small
<heat> AND the main program's stack expands
<zid> I like comically small threads
<zid> can you hint it anywhere, that'd be useful
<zid> CreateThread(CT_STACK_32K, ...
<gorgonical> heat: good point
<gorgonical> since glibc uses like ~10M it's fine to assume that's the stacksize
<heat> zid, yes, pthread_attr_t
<zid> that's a type
<heat> you can pass it to pthread_create
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<gorgonical> a real question I have is why is the stacksize not passed in the aux vector
<heat> because it's dynamic
<heat> it grows
<heat> like, if it doesn't grow on your OS, just make musl return the size and that's that
<gorgonical> yeah I think that's the strategy here
<gorgonical> I have static heap/stack size anyway
<gorgonical> Well at creation time static, not for all processes
<zid> add a GORG_STACK section
<gorgonical> to the aux vector, zid?
<zid> no?
<zid> GNU_STACK is part of the elf
<zid> you should add a GORG_STACK instead
<gorgonical> I think I'm missing the point
<zid> It's a thing, that you should do
<heat> it's a stupid joke
<heat> GNU -> GORG
<zid> Excise the GNU
<heat> hmmm there's a good replacement for that beautiful O(n) solution
<gog> hi
<gog> it's me gog
<heat> gog hi gog gog gog gog gog gog hi gog hey gog hey gog hi gog gog gog gog greetings gog
<mjg> hi
<mjg> it's me, Bonwick
<heat> hi popular SunOS Kernel Engineer Jeff Bonwick, what do you think about guns
<zid> good news guys
<zid> in 5 hours, my hdd hits 123456 spinup hours
<mjg> heat: everyone should have 2 guns, one always loaded
<heat> no dumbass
<heat> it's two magazines, one gun
<mjg> no it's 2 guns one magazine
<zid> that's a MUCH sexier porn name, heat
<heat> "A magazine is an M−element array of pointers to objects* with a count of the number of rounds (valid pointers)"
<mjg> that's not what i wrote in the paper
<heat> wow this is nuts what the fuck is up with the naming
<mjg> the editor m must have fucked with it after
<zid> it's a LIFO
<mjg> heat: since you asked about guns, you presumably heard the guy was a gun nut
<heat> yes
<zid> a magazine is literally a lifo, it already has a name ffs
<mjg> people claim he picked terminology specifically to steer up some bs
<mjg> you could argue it's a bad term anyway because fired rounds don't come back :X
<heat> how did no one look at this and thought "hmm maybe we shouldn't"
<zid> what are you even talking about btw
<kof123> > do you like one big, chest-crushing bear hug? the owlbear is probably a "hieroglyph", so you already know the answer to that
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<kof123> i think i prefer: > Anqa (from the Arabic word ʿanqāʾ ) denotes a legendary bird, which may be depicted as a phoenix, gryphon, eagle, thunderbird or sphinx. they swoop down to carry off lambs that are white as snow to the next stage lol