ChanServ changed the topic of #kisslinux to: Unnofficial KISS Linux community channel | | post logs or else | song of the day
<midfavila> fucking dying rn
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<Ellowee[m]> <midfavila> "i just... man. i legitimately..." <- Commodities dumb the senses
<midfavila> i guess so?
<midfavila> it's just crazy
<midfavila> reminds me of the time i found out that a bunch of my peers from high school have no idea how to cook and clean
<midfavila> or like
<midfavila> manage money or schedule their time or anything of that sort
<Ellowee[m]> midfavila: Not a skill taught in indoctrination camp
<midfavila> except it literally is
<midfavila> ninth grade has home economics in the first semester and personal development and career planning in the second
<Ellowee[m]> People are taught to hate math
<midfavila> teaches you to cook/clean/do basic repairs to household goods in the first segment, and how to schedule time/prepare a CV/interview for a job/not kill yourself in the second segment
<midfavila> and yes people here are taught to hate mathematics as well
<midfavila> honestly i'm kind of glad i have extremely limited formal education
<midfavila> it seems to be largely detrimental
<midfavila> sure i might not know how to solve quadratics but i don't have nearly as many damaging preconceptions about the subject so i can still get excited about it
* midfavila shrugs
<midfavila> small wins i guess
<Ellowee[m]> Rigged system for people to generally live unnoticed of the circumstances that set them up for subservience to as many legally allowed degrees as possible
<Ellowee[m]> Wouldn't be profitable otherwise
<midfavila> should just learn how to hunt, butcher, sow crops, and work leather and cotton
<midfavila> smdh
<midfavila> build a little cabin in the middle of nowhere and go full unabomber
<Ellowee[m]> midfavila: Thrown into a jungle with just a knife, a month of bone breaking training
<midfavila> nah
<midfavila> i have a friend in bulgaria, their education system seems way better than the ones in NA
<midfavila> or, well, Canada/USA
<midfavila> idk what the mexican education system is like
<Ellowee[m]> Bare but sufficient
<midfavila> but yeah common core up to eighth grade then you get pushed into a specialized school called a gymnasium for four years based on your aptitudes
<Ellowee[m]> Though being littered by the same stuff
<midfavila> doesn't bother teaching common core at that point afaik
<midfavila> just what you actually need to start working and/or pursue further education
<niceguy5000[m]> gymnasium is so useful, it teaches you the 69 positions. /s
<midfavila> i wish gyms here still had fun activities
<midfavila> like dodgeball, wrestling, boxing, w/e
<niceguy5000[m]> also don't forget a shooting range.
<midfavila> i get that you don't want to expose people to unnecessary harm but *any* sort of physical activity carries with it a degree of potential harm
<midfavila> and boxing and wrestling are actually useful skills to have to boot
<niceguy5000[m]> teaches you how to hunter dee
<niceguy5000[m]> deer*
* midfavila sighs
<midfavila> but yeah idk canada's school system is bullshit
<niceguy5000[m]> 1 deer can feed you for months
<midfavila> especially how they teach history and shit as mandatory classes
<midfavila> it would be one thing if history was more philosophical
<midfavila> like, examing cultural differences and why certain civilizations were able to outcompete others and why they clashed and parallels to the modern world and stuff
<midfavila> but no, it's just memorizing piles of dates about fucking egyptian pharaohs
<midfavila> *literally who cares outside of egyptologists*
<midfavila> just fucking trivia
<Ellowee[m]> > not profitable
<midfavila> make kiss linux part of the curriculum
<Ellowee[m]> midfavila: This
<midfavila> you graduate when you can write an entire kiss unix system from scratch
<midfavila> not a second sooner
<niceguy5000[m]> You think kids should learn linux in school?
<midfavila> i mean
<midfavila> yes
<Ellowee[m]> gnu/linux
<niceguy5000[m]> What would happen to all the IT jerbs?
<midfavila> unironically it would be better than what's taught in "tech" class rn
<Ellowee[m]> linux is just more of the same bullshit, double sense thought policing
<midfavila> i was given a special invitation to audit my high school's prototype computer security class and it was unironically really solid
<niceguy5000[m]> I got taught powerpoint,execl, wordshit as a tech class in school lol.
<midfavila> (i also got the highest marks in the class if you ignore the guy who got bonus marks)
<Ellowee[m]> Same
<midfavila> (but if you ignore bonus marks I got the highest marks. 97% :D)
<Ellowee[m]> Just a dumb excel prompt every week
<Ellowee[m]> Biggest highlight was doing html, and that was it
<niceguy5000[m]> I think schools are teaching python now. I think.
<Ellowee[m]> Emacs at school would be best
<niceguy5000[m]> You think we need more advances in the open source world?
<midfavila> anyway it taught what you'd expect in the form of how to configure windows password settings, but it also talked about the basic theory behind security, how different common exploits worked like buffer overflows and different forms of DoS, basic cryptographic theory, how to use unix and configure linux security like PAM and SELinux (to some extent), as well as how to use tools like johntheripper and metasploit
<midfavila> for a high school course it was *really* solid
<midfavila> and despite that they never renewed it
<midfavila> i'm so fucking mad about that
<Ellowee[m]> niceguy5000[m]: In the free software world
<Ellowee[m]> Epen soros is just more thought policing
<midfavila> there were a few other classes i really wanted to take that ended up being cancelled due to lack of enrollment
<midfavila> also the class taught emacs and vim
<midfavila> :^)
<midfavila> but yeah i wanted to take microelectronics 120 and personal computer maintenance and repair 110 and both ended up being cancelled due to lack of interest
<Ellowee[m]> Pretty lame
<midfavila> the same teacher taught both, he was a retired engineer from GE or something
<midfavila> he was *furious* about it
<midfavila> and honestly so was i
<midfavila> microelectronics 120 culminated in building an 8-bit computer and pcmr110 talked about how computers *actually work* in a decent degree of depth
<midfavila> it wasn't just "this is a CPU, this is a RAM, this is a PSU, this is a..."
<midfavila> it talked about the relationship between things like CPU clock speed and the rate at which the clock crystal oscillates and how that ties into memory access and all sorts of neat stuff
<midfavila> i was *supposed* to take double computer science that semester after hearing both classes were cancelled, but that's when corona-chan showed up
<Ellowee[m]> <niceguy5000[m]> "What would happen to all the..." <- They would become like my prompts, where I can't figure how to configure the linux kernel properly to the hardware's specs
<niceguy5000[m]> isn't the future basically everything computers at that point if robots becomes a thing?
<midfavila> lmao no
<niceguy5000[m]> * basically everything about computers at
<niceguy5000[m]> What will people be doing? tv all day?
<Ellowee[m]> Explore the cosmos
<Ellowee[m]> Space travel
<Ellowee[m]> Foreign planet adaptation
<Ellowee[m]> Alien evolution
<niceguy5000[m]> Imagine the energy that the sun has? fusion power....
<Ellowee[m]> Cracking the mysteries of the universe rather than redundantly waste our times solving the cumulus of people's comfort as a paradoxical state of git gud
<Ellowee[m]> * git gud/hostile compettitive environment
<niceguy5000[m]> You think we can turn mars into a livable planet if we had unlimited energy? Just machines make h20 at a massive scale.
<Ellowee[m]> No such thing as unlimited energy, but delegating energy to self sustainable subsystems would relieve a lot of issues
<Ellowee[m]> Mars into a livable planet, maybe, if you can somehow design a colonizing bubble that can withstand heavier sandstorms
<niceguy5000[m]> The sun is literally unlimited energy. We never ever use it all. It's impossible.
<niceguy5000[m]> * never ever will use it
<Ellowee[m]> niceguy5000[m]: It's not unlimited, just a large amount of magnitudes more than what our puny meatsacks can fathom
<Ellowee[m]> If you can device something that disrupts the core of the sun, it'd come apart pretty quickly
<Ellowee[m]> ... and kill the solar system alongside it
<niceguy5000[m]> It's crazy we might have fusion in like 50 years.
<testuser[m]123> Hi
<Ellowee[m]> sleep $((RANDOM%86400))
<sewn> Hi
<niceguy5000[m]> You pay and they sell your data nice.
<Ellowee[m]> Use manyverse
<Ellowee[m]> Wished I could build a ssb client for emacs
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<sewn> nothing is stopping you though innit
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<aelspire> Hi
<sewn> Hi
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<aelspire> vala is bloat or not so bad?
<illiliti> bloated af
<illiliti> gnome projects are bloated by definition
<aelspire> I'm using gitg on my work PC. Mainly because I haven't find nice way to check history of different branches than current one and for staging chunks & lines (is there nice way to do this in CLI?)
<aelspire> I've tried to use gitui from community repo but it tries too much and yet can't display history of other branches
<aelspire> + rust
<aelspire> I seriously considering packaging gitg for KISS now
<aelspire> I'm using git CLI + $EDITOR for everything else expect checking history and staging
<aelspire> and every single git GUI/TUI I've tried, tries to do everything and is broken in some way
<illiliti> staging chunks: git add -p
<illiliti> and if i understand correctly, git log <branch> should be enough to check history of branch
<aelspire> git add -p is not bad
<aelspire> I was using git add -i and this option is too cumbersome
<aelspire> with e it allows to modify chunk so staging lines is posible too
<aelspire> illiliti: ok, I'll try to remove gitg from my work PC and see how it will work, this should be usable. gitg is slow as fuck so it is not perfect too
<aelspire> thanks
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<testuser[m]123> got time to debug it now
<testuser[m]123> illiliti: what did you suggest wrt debugging pipewire hotplug being broken last time i asked?
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<testuser[m]123> hmm lemme try it with eudev first to see if problem is even related to libudev-zero
<niceguy5000[m]> <testuser[m]123> "image.png" <- is that your in the background?
<niceguy5000[m]> s/your/yourcat/
<testuser[m]123> yep works with preloading eudev hmm
<testuser[m]123> process_device is called multiple times every time i unplug my mic, but not called when i plug it in
<testuser[m]123> but in case of eudev it's called both times, and only once instead of multiple times hmm
<testuser[m]123> oh pw gets the mic event from impl_on_fd_events in case of libudev-zero but from impl_on_notify_events in case of pulse and fd_events only checks for "change" or "remove", not "add"
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<testuser[m]123> fixec
<testuser[m]123> fixed
<sewn> <niceguy5000[m]> "is that your in the background?" <- he IS the cat frfr
<sewn> are you gonna submit that upstream?
<testuser[m]123> idk, since the action is not called "add" on non-libudev zero systems
<sewn> j
<testuser[m]123> i dont even know where tf "action" comes from
<testuser[m]123> im just good at monkey patching
<aelspire> patch of patch hurts my brain
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<midfavila> wait until you hear about compiling a compiler using itself
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<sewn> is the pipewire patch why pipewire doesn't recognize new devices?
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<aelspire> midfavila: bootstraping is nothing new to me ;)
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<sad_plan> hi
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<sewn> hi sad_plan
<sad_plan> hi sewn
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<sad_plan> midfavila: could you test a thing? I testing the sbase cp. and I can reproduce my issue. but im just curious if the issue persists with others.
<midfavila> no, sorry
<midfavila> i'm busy with irl stuff today
<midfavila> you'll have to ask someone else
<sad_plan> fair enough
<sad_plan> in any case. if you get the time or someone else wanna check;
<sad_plan> create /tmp/etc, cd to /tmp, ln -sf /proc/self/mounts etc/mtab
<sad_plan> cp -Pf etc/mtab /etc/mtab
<sad_plan> cp: etc/mtab -> /etc/mtab: same file < this is what I get
<sad_plan> cp -Pf is afaik how kiss copies files over, hence why I used it
<sad_plan> this is with sbase cp
<sad_plan> can someone reproduce this? I can on both kiss and oasis, but I just wanna double check if its not something on my end
<sad_plan> btw, it doesnt have to be /etc/mtab. it can be anything, it just has to be more or less the same, in the same manner as the example I used
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<illiliti> i can reproduce
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<illiliti> testuser[m]123: it seems that add check was deleted in 22c793aa87
<illiliti> which is totally wrong
<illiliti> and udev work because first it applies rules and then rebroadcast events with change action
<illiliti> so your patch to restore add check is correct
<sad_plan> ok cool illiliti. it is abit strange though, as it doesnt seem to trigger for every symlink. just some of them.
<sad_plan> the symlink for ldd errors, the one for mtab does, but not the one for /run i.e.. which is strange
<illiliti> i think sbase should skip same file check for symlinks
<sad_plan> yeah, it seems so. seeing as its rather buggy
<illiliti> untested
<sad_plan> ill check. cheers dude
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<sad_plan> works for those packages Ive had issues with so far
<sad_plan> nice one illiliti
<testuser[m]123> illiliti: ig i can submit it upstream then?
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<illiliti> you can try
<illiliti> expect pushback though
<illiliti> last time they suggested me to simply use systemd and not bother
<illiliti> well not me directly
<testuser[m]123> This fix shouldn't effect non-non-eudev setups tho so lets see
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<illiliti> yeah worth a try after all
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<testuser[m]123> illiliti: v4l2 udev.c still has add||change so ig it's fine
<testuser[m]123> Made pr
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<testuser[m]123> Btw wrt the SOUND_INITIALIZED issue, what problems can it actually lead to?
<testuser[m]123> Oh it'll fail to open the device
<testuser[m]123> Isn't it correct from pipewire perspective to check only for the "change" event? As the udev rule emits change instead of add when device is "ready"
<testuser[m]123> or is this issue not present outside eudev
<testuser[m]123> > When an application needs to listen for appearing devices it can hence look for 'change' events only, and ignore the actual 'add' events.
<illiliti> what a mess
<illiliti> appearing devices is a "add" event
<illiliti> "change" event implies that device already appeared, it's just something changed in its state
<illiliti> this is just cursed systemd redefinition of how events work
<illiliti> you should always look for "add" events when you're looking for new devices
<illiliti> not change
<illiliti> fuck systemd
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<illiliti> SOUND_INITIALIZED is another shitty attempt to redefine how events work
<testuser[m]123> How do you solve it otherwise tho
<illiliti> when you get an event, you can assume device behind it already initialized
<illiliti> look at how mdevd solved it
<illiliti> it rebroadcast event only when it is ready
<testuser[m]123> Ohh so it's a eudev specific issue
<illiliti> it's systemd issue
<testuser[m]123> systemd-udev i mean
<testuser[m]123> Or whatever
<testuser[m]123> Ig it's too late to change it now
<illiliti> instead of addressing root problem, they added all these crappy workarounds like SOUND_INITIALIZED
<illiliti> or redefining that change event also means add event
<illiliti> this is real mess
<sewn> did you guys actually find a systemd bug or something
<illiliti> rather design issue
<illiliti> long standing one
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<illiliti> did you know that udev rules are turing complete
<illiliti> they have loops via GOTO
<midfavila> did you know that your mom is turing complete
<illiliti> they have conditions
<midfavila> your mom has conditions and gotos
<illiliti> they can store data via ENV{}
* midfavila dabs on illiliti
<illiliti> yours too
<midfavila> my mom is a vegetable lmao
<midfavila> so hah you can't turn my own words back against me
<midfavila> get fuuuuuuuuucked
<midfavila> >;P
<illiliti> vegetable? so you're vegetable too?
* sad_plan ooooooos
<midfavila> nah i don't smoke multiple packs of cigarettes a day so i'm probably fine
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<niceguy5000[m]> smoking kills you.
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<niceguy5000[m]> smoking kills your lungs
<midfavila> nuh uh
<midfavila> what doesn't kill you makes you stronger and smoking doesn't kill you so it makes you stronger
<midfavila> fucking DUH
<midfavila> "why don't you read the runestones and tell us how the coming release will go, Dylan?"
<niceguy5000[m]> midfavila: You think so? You think if we start them young they would immune to cigarettes?
<niceguy5000[m]> * they would be immune to
<midfavila> they wouldn't just be immune, every cig would make them stronger, better, faster, harder
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<sad_plan> burn your children from a young age, so they get fireresistant when they grow up
<midfavila> yes
<midfavila> the strong will survive
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<illiliti> animal mindset
<midfavila> yes.jpg
<illiliti> you are so sincere
<illiliti> love that
<midfavila> love you too illy~ <3
<midfavila> lmao i'm fucknig dyin jfc
<midfavila> should totally edit that historically accurate frozen animation to be a kisslinux meme
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* illiliti sees stupid face with open mouth on preview and closes page instantly
<midfavila> lmao
<midfavila> flashgitz is great, you're missing out
<illiliti> sorry, no braindead content today
<midfavila> kek
<niceguy5000[m]> I don't watch peoples content. It makes me very productive.
<niceguy5000[m]> s/productive/unproductive/
<Ellowee[m]> Messages at most, cOnTenT is just free labor
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<ehawkvu> testuser[m]: entr -> 5.3 :
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