ChanServ changed the topic of #kisslinux to: Unnofficial KISS Linux community channel | | post logs or else | song of the day
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<davidgarland> sewn: I got lib32-llvm and lib32-mesa working, at least I think:
<davidgarland> any tips on how I could go about testing them? can't log into steam yet due to some SSL issue, should I try wine-staging or will the Vulkan-* packages not work on my GPU
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<rohan> hey guys
<davidgarland> o/
<rohan> anyone was able to build hyprland in kiss
<rohan> i in gentoo now
<rohan> but think in go back to kiss
<schillingklaus> what is hyprland?
<midfavila> fbsd wayland compositor iirc
<rohan> is a wayland compositor with some nice effects
<rohan> but still in beta
<sad_plan> midfavila: youre thinking of hikari
<midfavila> rip
<midfavila> not to be confused with haiku
<sad_plan> yeah, that would be a mistake not to be taken lightly
<sad_plan> sure to mess up your system
<schillingklaus> i refrain from using wayland
<midfavila> yes, yes, we all know about your hatred of GUIs and waylets in particular, klaus
<davidgarland> realize now I need to package vulkan-radeon, doing that now :clueless:
<davidgarland> what are waylets (if I won't instigate a flamewar by asking)
<midfavila> waylets == people who use or advocate for wayland
<davidgarland> ahh
<schillingklaus> we all know about Midfavila's hatred for (n)curses and emacs-noX
<davidgarland> for some reason I didn't make the "-let" connection there and just assumed it was like some cutesy name for desktop widgets or something lol
<midfavila> lmao
<midfavila> also curses and non-graphical programs are fine
<midfavila> the problem is people who insinuate or say that graphical programs and stacks are inherently "bloat"
<midfavila> which is demonstrably false in many cases
<Ellowee[m]> But muh better security
<midfavila> security is often more a matter of human failing than technical failing as far as i'm concerned
<midfavila> obviously not true in all cases
<midfavila> but in many it certainly is
<midfavila> X11 may have options that can be security flaws, but if you don't trust those features, disable them
<rohan> i just use wayland now
<rohan> the tearing problem in X11 is shit
<rohan> i can't even use openbsd without tearing
<davidgarland> brb
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<midfavila> mfw i use xaw/motif and never experience tearing
<midfavila> xlib chads can't stop winning!!!
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<davidgarland> sewn: got vkcube working, so I can now confirm Vulkan-Loader & Vulkan-Tools work on AMD, provided vulkan-radeon is present
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<testuser[m]123> Hi
<davidgarland> hallo
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<sewn> Hi
<sewn> davidgarland: nice, you can push them to gkiss-multilib if you want
<davidgarland> :DD great, will do, I'll make some PRs
<davidgarland> also I'll try and make them a bit more proper, doing "kiss link" instead of duplicating, to better follow how you've been doing things
<sewn> btw I hope your lib32-llvm builds the required parts for mesa
<sewn> eg build all of llvm libraries with libLLVM, but do not build or install anything else
<davidgarland> as in "only the required parts for mesa"? unsure on that
<davidgarland> I do look at the manifests and make sure none of the lib32 stuff is colliding with the main 64 bit packages
<davidgarland> and compare vs arch linux manifests for the equivalents to see if certain header files or binaries should be kept
<sewn> lib32-llvm, all that matters is the libraries that lib32-mesa needs lol
<davidgarland> I don't know which those are tbh :S
<davidgarland> is there a place I can read up on that
<sewn> uhhh
<sewn> actually I have no clue
<sewn> there probably is somewhere, i got it with trial and error
<davidgarland> lol I see
<davidgarland> here's what the manifest currently looks like:
<davidgarland> before doing any trying to trim it down
<sewn> do you have a bunch of rm -rf in the build files?
<sewn> I actually try my best to keep away from those and build only what's necessary
<sewn> not possible with ninja tho
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<davidgarland> I do in some-- some are just outright wasteful, like lib32-xorgproto builds when I literally only need the .pc files
<davidgarland> realistically I could probably just have it take xorgproto's .pc files and do some text replacement
<davidgarland> I'll try and see what I can do to remove that wasteful building or rm commands
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<sewn> lib32-xorgproto isnt a package in gkiss-multilib
<sewn> lib32-libXmeta builds the libraries and installs .pc files
<sewn> i think
<davidgarland> a
<sewn> you can try to symlink lib32-xorgproto/build to lib32-libXmeta/build
<sewn> should work
<davidgarland> I see
<davidgarland> that is a neat trick, worked like a charm for libXrandr (the one I happened to be working on, xorgproto I'll try in a bit, or maybe tomorrow since it's approaching midnight)
<sewn> i had a shit ton of xorg packages in the old kiss-multilib but now i just keep ones that are neccessary
<davidgarland> I see
<davidgarland> ah heck I forgot to link checksums 1s
<sewn> w
<davidgarland> I think I'll head to bed for now, then I'll try and do some in the morning ^^ learning new things from this, thank you
<davidgarland> excited at the prospect of getting steam working on my end as well
<sewn> o/
<davidgarland> goodnight o/
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<testuser[m]123> davidgarland: why not flatpak
<sewn> for me its just so i can have native multilib, and patches over wine
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<sewn> Who is that
<niceguy5000[m]> That's not the important. It's who he's looking at.
<sewn> Who is he looking at
<niceguy5000[m]> * the important thing. It's
<niceguy5000[m]> Steve jobs being curious about mac being used
<sewn> Whar
<sewn> why delete niceguy5000:
<niceguy5000[m]> I had too, no girls allow in Linux.
<niceguy5000[m]> * no girls/woman allow
<sewn> Excuse me?
<niceguy5000[m]> You're excused.
<niceguy5000[m]> wael: What windows manager do you use?
<sewn> dwm.exe
<niceguy5000[m]> are you still using xorg?
<sewn> no I'm using windows
<niceguy5000[m]> or tinyx?
<sewn> you asked windows manager
<niceguy5000[m]> They have xorg in windows?
<niceguy5000[m]> I didn't know.
<sewn> what
<sewn> I mean they do
<sewn> they stole xorg and are hiding from us
<niceguy5000[m]> You mean the stole xorg source code and are using in their display server? Does that mean we can't see the source code cause it's compiled? No way that's insane. Microsoft is a genius!
<sewn> Yes
<niceguy5000[m]> s/the/they/
<niceguy5000[m]> Microsoft keeps innovating, truly a incredible company. Bing Chatgpt, now this?
<niceguy5000[m]> wael wael you should from them. How do we get Kiss Linux out there? Should we advertised using google ads?
<niceguy5000[m]> * you should learn from them.
<sewn> We need to sell it to microsoft
<niceguy5000[m]> That's right!
<sewn> We also need to make kiss package system part of the blockchain
<sewn> Thankfully we have testuser, who is very knowledgeable about ipfs and has worked for google
<niceguy5000[m]> That's right he's truly is incredible.
<sewn> He's he is a genius
<sewn> He's working on highly scalable Ethereum blockchain based IPFS powered PAAS robust async framework cross-platform write once deploy everywhere cost-saving microservice agile algorithm hypervisor extended HTML rich-client shared NoSQL kubernetes JSON storage decentralized functional bug-free docker CSS web apps that use the decentralised web
<niceguy5000[m]> Yep, just an incredible resume. Truly top 0.001% of people in the industry.
<niceguy5000[m]> You think we should rename it to kircosoft package manager?
<sewn> No, KISS is a very good slogan and bill gates will like it
<niceguy5000[m]> That's right bill gate likes it real simple. You're truly a master marketer. You think we should post ads in bing and maybe by chance bill gates will take a look in our product?
<sewn> We need Scott Tyler to advertise it
<sewn> Jmommy
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<davidgarland> testuser[m]123: admittedly avoiding flatpak is mostly because I cannot seem to get it working, same goes with steam in chroot
<davidgarland> the chroot route I got working to the point where I had a script to copy xauth info over from host to the chroot, then I could run things like xeyes that weren't installed on the host
<davidgarland> but steam gave me errors no one else had (or resolved differently), so I didn't know what to do from there
<davidgarland> either way it seems less fiddly to just.. have the libraries
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<davidgarland> other thing with chroots is that group IDs differ for the arch chroot versus my kiss install, so I'd have to manually fix up /etc/group and then change every file to match, doing a bunch of indiana jones swaps and hoping I'm not breaking anything
<davidgarland> no idea if I could've gotten audio working
<davidgarland> I know it's doable because I think I remember seeing someone say dilyn had done it at one point, just beyond me how atm
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<testuser[m]123> davidgarland: what issue with flat pak
<testuser[m]123> It
<testuser[m]123> You likely just need to dbus-launch ug
<davidgarland> maybe so
<davidgarland> I was getting some error saying it couldn't find the display iirc, like the error said something about x11
<sewn> i set up a void chroot for testing a while ago and it worked just fine
<sewn> just had to export display, mount bind /tmp and it worked flawlessly
<davidgarland> maybe I'll give that a spin then, it would make sense that a distro that doesn't dep on systemd would work out better perhaps
<davidgarland> still, I wanna just try to get it working natively, this seems simpler to me
<sewn> honestly void is still really nice, i would use it second to kiss
<davidgarland> I was on void up til now
<davidgarland> it's just that openssl3 and llvm 15 are lagging on release
<davidgarland> so I can't run my gpu on it
<davidgarland> without learning how their package management works n doing some local changes
<sewn> yeah idk why they just dont
<sewn> many core packages are just outdated and core maintainers arent intervening or helping the dude who is working so hard just for llvm
<sewn> i think he even just quit github entirely
<testuser[m]123> davidgarland: check junest
<sewn> whats junest?
<davidgarland> is that like jane st
<sewn> testuser[m]123: bash
<sewn> well tbf steam runs on bash anyway so
<testuser[m]123> You're literally running steam
<sewn> shhh
<davidgarland> lool
<davidgarland> but yeah I'll give junest and/or a void chroot a try at some point, both seem more promising than trying to get a normal arch chroot working, ty both
<sewn> i wonder if bedrock has support for kiss 🧌
<paradigm> sewn: there's a known issue which keeps it from just-working with a fix planned for Bedrock Linux 0.8.
<sewn> wat is it
<paradigm> The `kiss` executable dynamically searches the `$PATH` for dependencies like `tar`. On Bedrock 0.7, if those aren't available in the kiss part of the system, it'll get them from other distros, which can have weird side-effects. The easy work-around is to just install dependencies like `tar` locally within the kiss part of the system.
<paradigm> Bedrock 0.7's subsystem to determine which executables are available when isn't very robust, and kiss hits an edge case. 0.8's will improve things here such that this should just-work without the user having to think about it.
<sewn> wow cool
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<noocsharp> testuser[m]123: see if waypaste works now, think it's fixed
<testuser[m]123> Will check in 12 hrs
<midfavila> >waypaste
<midfavila> do waylets need a daemon to manage cut and paste ops?
<noocsharp> no, it's just a command line tool to paste things from the clipboard
<midfavila> unfortunate, i thought i had more ammunition to bully people with :p
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<sewn> mean
<niceguy5000[m]> <midfavila> "unfortunate, i thought i had..." <- wayland is the future!!
<niceguy5000[m]> da future is wayland!
<niceguy5000[m]> xorg is outdated.
<niceguy5000[m]> when will the suckless team more on?
<niceguy5000[m]> it's also way bloated.
* midfavila sighs
<midfavila> the joke died a long time ago
<niceguy5000[m]> <midfavila> "the joke died a long time ago" <- You like tinyx more than wayland?
<niceguy5000[m]> Does tinyx uses the framebuffer?
<midfavila> yes
<midfavila> tinyx uses the kernel framebuffer device directly, via xfbdev
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<niceguy5000[m]> does it have a lot of tearing?
<midfavila> yes
<midfavila> it's unaccelerated so
<niceguy5000[m]> I assume, you can't watch high bitrate vidoes.
<midfavila> haven't tried
<midfavila> probably right
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<sad_plan> hi
<sad_plan> niceguy5000[m]: you can watch videon on tinyx. I do it all the time. how high of a bitrate would you consider high?
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<niceguy5000[m]> 4k?
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<niceguy5000[m]> I'm joking that's way too high, I mean 1080p would be good right?
<sad_plan> probably not. my laptop dont have a 4k display anyway, so I dont bother with them
<sad_plan> yeah, I play 1080p just fine
<niceguy5000[m]> does tinyx run rootless?
<sad_plan> yes
<sad_plan> or.. the bin is setuid though
<niceguy5000[m]> what widows managers do you use?
<sad_plan> glazier
<niceguy5000[m]> dwm?
<sad_plan> no, glazier
<midfavila> i find glazier to be a little unstable unfortunately
<midfavila> my vote goes to twm :D
<niceguy5000[m]> sad_plan: is it tile window manager
<midfavila> no
<sad_plan> only thing Im anoyd at with using it with tinyx is that alot of times, when moving/teleporting, the alt key seems to get stuck. so I have to stop pressing the altkey before releasing the mousekey
<sad_plan> no floating
<midfavila> glazier is a floating wm
<niceguy5000[m]> Can you compile tinyx static? I assume?
<sad_plan> yes
<sad_plan> i run it statically linked
<niceguy5000[m]> sad_plan: would it run if I change the permissions of video and keyboard? without setuid?
<sad_plan> it wont start for me without setuid. itll just complain about the permission missing
<niceguy5000[m]> can I just change the files it requires?
<sad_plan> likely. I havent messed with them at all
<sad_plan> which files are you actually refering to anyway? /dev/* files?
<niceguy5000[m]> yeah.
<niceguy5000[m]> like make a group and add to the user.
<sad_plan> ah yeah, I already had my user in the video and audio group. not sure if you need it though
<sad_plan> you also dont need libinput etc, or xkeyboard-config and so on. which I find really nice
<niceguy5000[m]> does tinyx support software mouse?
<sad_plan> like what? like software that changes your dpi, colors and such, like the ones from razor?
<niceguy5000[m]> software Cursor
<sad_plan> dunno. maybe midfavila knows?
<sad_plan> what would even a software cursor be?
<sad_plan> dont you have an actuall mouse?
<sad_plan> ah. I have no clue. I havent really needed to mess with much config files in X at all. things have luckily mostly worked for me :p
<sad_plan> so Im not too familiar with them
<niceguy5000[m]> do you know any suckless vnc clients?
<sad_plan> I dont use vnc at all, but isnt there one mentioned in their rocks or other list or something?
<sad_plan> or look up vnc on r/suckless
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<niceguy5000[m]> Can't find a good one that's suckless, only fbvnc.
<niceguy5000[m]> <sad_plan> "dont you have an actuall mouse?" <- I need software cursor cause fbvnc doesn't show mouse.
<midfavila> oh
<midfavila> sounds like you all are talking about mouse keys
<midfavila> that's an thing but i don't know about it
<niceguy5000[m]> so it doesn't have software cursor overlay?
<midfavila> i have no idea what you mean by that
<midfavila> like, an application-specific cursor?
<midfavila> unrelated, but man, it's so fucking annoying to see job listings for data entry that *demand* MS Excel
<midfavila> like, you can't use *any* system more efficient than fucking excel?
<midfavila> i can't just access a SQL server and type records in?
<midfavila> i *have* to use shitty bullshit software to do my job?
<Ellowee[m]> You can always make your things poop out incxel
<Ellowee[m]> s/incxel/incxe filesl/
<Ellowee[m]> s/incxel/excel files/
<niceguy5000[m]> <midfavila> "unrelated, but man, it's so..." <- You work in the tech sector?
<midfavila> trying to get a job in it
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<midfavila> i'm a wageslave right now and i'm super fucking sick of having to wake up early so i can commute to work so i can bust my ass for stupid customers who can't make up their goddamn minds within less than five minutes all so i can bring home minimum wage
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<niceguy5000[m]> like a walmart job?
<midfavila> i spent two years on a worthless piece of paper under the pretense of it being able to get me through HR only for HR to ramp up requirements while I was in college
<midfavila> and no
<midfavila> i work at a fucking
<midfavila> smoothie bar
<sad_plan> are the smoothies any good atleast though?
<midfavila> when i started i didn't mind it but my coworkers treat me like shit, the environment is cramped, i'm only allowed to have breaks because of a legal requirement, there's nowhere for me to actually sit and rest if i do take my fifteen minute break during a 6+ hour shift, etc
<midfavila> and i mean the smoothies are fine yeah
<niceguy5000[m]> like wheat grass organic smoothies?
<midfavila> i do get free food and drink regularly which is cool
<midfavila> oh, well, normally this chain does actually have wheat grass
<midfavila> but the location i work at has a reduced menu because it's really small
<midfavila> but yeah i get home from dealing with people all day and i'm so exhausted that i can't focus on anything that requires any sort of mental exertion whatsoever
<midfavila> because i'm neither a people person nor someone who's very dynamic
<midfavila> food/service industry is *not* for me
<niceguy5000[m]> All fancy mircogreens smoothies?
* midfavila sighs
<niceguy5000[m]> You can start growing micro greens and sell them to the silicon valley techies
<niceguy5000[m]> I heard the tech sectors loves avocado toast and micro greens
<midfavila> just stop man