<midfavila>
uses an "elbrus" CPU - some kind of sparc variant i think
<shokara_>
looks really nice, I hope it comes out soon
<midfavila>
watch it be even more expensive than a raptor engineering system
<shokara_>
surely it can't be because of it being mini-itx and not even having pcie4 nor ibm's expensive cpus
* shokara_
sweats
<midfavila>
instead it has russian SPARCs made in god knows how small volume batches and a bunch of custom software to allow x86-64 code to run :v
<midfavila>
what could possibly go wrong amirite
<shokara_>
mhm
<midfavila>
looks like eoma68 is still a thing, they just had one of their core team members vanish overnight
<midfavila>
question is, if they're still a thing, why not provide any new updates?
<shokara_>
\_(:/)_/
<midfavila>
where's my libre pc guys
<midfavila>
WHERE IS IT
<midfavila>
gah it's so annoying seeing idiots post about FLOSS computers with inanities like "wow that CPU might have been good twenty years ago" or "X gigs of RAM? how am I supposed to run Windows on *that*?". clearly if those are your concerns then the machine was never meant for you
* midfavila
grumbles
<shokara_>
I don't get what's wrong with a CPU that's equivalent to one from 20 years ago
<midfavila>
it's too slow for forkknife and muh saas webapps
<shokara_>
Sure it may not run the latest and greatest vidya nor compile chromium in under an hour, but it can do everything else fine.
<midfavila>
word on the street is that it's going to drop x11
<davidgarland>
is each GTK version like substantially different from the last, like a proper rewrite, or is it just an incremental "we added more stuff, and things got more complicated and bloated" sort of deal
<davidgarland>
have never done any GUI programming outside of WPF stuff for work
<midfavila>
i know that gtk1 > 2 > 3 were all big changes, but idk about 3 > 4 or 4 > 5
<midfavila>
i've never bothered with gtk/qt myself
<midfavila>
i only look at Xt-based toolkits
<midfavila>
e.g Xaw, Motif, etc
<davidgarland>
I see
* midfavila
shrugs
<midfavila>
soon:tm: i'll be able to remove gtk2 and its friends from my setup
<midfavila>
need to replace pidgin and lxtask, and find alternatives to the few JS sites i use atm
<midfavila>
actually hm
<midfavila>
might not be too hard to replace lxtask
<midfavila>
in its entirety it's maybe 1500 lines of c
<davidgarland>
nice
<midfavila>
1151 not counting xfce-specific stuff
<shokara_>
what does lxtask do?
<midfavila>
it's a process manager
<shokara_>
is it like the system monitor (stats?) in plan9?
<shokara_>
oh
<shokara_>
why not just use (h)top
<midfavila>
because it would be more efficient to use a xaw-based program, and it's more aesthetically pleasing
<shokara_>
gotcha
<midfavila>
and no that's not exaggeration, athena-based programs are significantly more efficient than running a cli equivalent in an xterm or something
<midfavila>
i really do need to port xenocara to kiss at some point christ
<sewn>
tinyx
<sad_plan>
well shit. my desktop that almost never runs is susceptable to that
<midfavila>
doesn't work with multiple displays
<sad_plan>
^
<sad_plan>
doesnt it?
<midfavila>
it does not
<sad_plan>
damn
<midfavila>
tinyx uses the kernel's framebuffer device directly which doesn't handle multiple displays
<midfavila>
that's why you need separate kernel and X.Org drivers for your GPU
<midfavila>
i wonder if whatever wayland does wrt: that could be ported into tinyx
<midfavila>
part of the whole deal with wayland is that it doesn't need additional drivers right?
<sewn>
hah im safe
<midfavila>
my next PC will run tinyx either way
<midfavila>
i'll just abuse virtual WMs or run multiple servers
<midfavila>
fdjskhfiehfwehr9werhiwereywt8rgeyiowyr89we7griwegriwegrew this is one of those things i wish i was competent enough to work on-
<niceguy5000[m]>
midfavila: can you create more dummy frame buffers?
<midfavila>
not without fucking with the kernel
<midfavila>
at least afaik
<niceguy5000[m]>
is tinyx smaller than wayland?
<midfavila>
that depends on what you mean by tinyx
<midfavila>
tinyx itself is about 60k
<midfavila>
but it still relies on the X11 ecosystem of libraries
<midfavila>
which in turn pulls in python and its deps
<midfavila>
because of fucking libx11 sitting atop libxcb
<sewn>
why the fuck does libxcb require python
<midfavila>
because it generates code during build time from an XML document that lays out a formal spec for xcb
<midfavila>
or something like that iirc
<sewn>
i thought it generates python bindings lol
<niceguy5000[m]>
so velox is the most suckless display server?
<sad_plan>
in regards to cloc, I suppose so
<midfavila>
rio is
<sewn>
there is nothing ever truly suckless niceguy5000
<sewn>
it only just sucks less
<sewn>
plan9
<midfavila>
but i don't think suckless' philosophy is sound
<midfavila>
valid, sure, but not sound
<sad_plan>
how big is rio?
<sad_plan>
and does it have any dependencies?
<sad_plan>
never tried rio really
<midfavila>
it's part of plan 9 so you just know they're cooming their brains out over it
<sewn>
it depends on a brain
<sad_plan>
hah, yeah
<midfavila>
just finished reading ch13 of the art of unix programming, i think you would all find the book really interesting
<midfavila>
bloat as a design problem is a huge focus point of the book
<midfavila>
ch13 in particular talks about the different ways it can manifest and be combatted, and when it should be accepted
<midfavila>
accidental, optional, and essential bloat, originating from poor design, from extra features, and from fundamental specification of the problem, respectively.
<sad_plan>
I belive I have that book on my laptop iirc. its been on my todo list
<midfavila>
uses ed, vi, sam, emacs and acme as case studies
<midfavila>
sad_plan big recommend
<sad_plan>
yeah
<midfavila>
even if you don't have much CS or programming experience it's really interesting to compare the design culture of unix to IBM/PC/Amiga/etc systems
<sad_plan>
ed was hard. I forced myself to edit some files the other day in ed.
<sad_plan>
sure
<midfavila>
ed is easy wth are you on about
<midfavila>
only problem with ed is that you can't specify ranges within lines without regex
<sad_plan>
well, once you figure out the commands, it was rather straight forward
<sad_plan>
its just the commands that confused me at first
<sad_plan>
or rather the controls
<midfavila>
ed man! !man ed
<midfavila>
...i still need to make a shirt that says that
<sad_plan>
theres lots of websites that can do that for you
<midfavila>
nah i can just do it myself
<midfavila>
i know someone with a shirt press
<sad_plan>
or that
<sad_plan>
cool
<midfavila>
ye
<midfavila>
but anyway i'd also suggest the unix programming environment
<midfavila>
should make a mandatory kiss linux reading list
<midfavila>
your bookshelf needs to be this full before you can ride
midfavila has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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<midfavila>
going to strangle pidgin i swear to god
<midfavila>
it crashes at the worst times
<sad_plan>
I love me some crashes
<midfavila>
i need to study asynchronous networking in C before I can write my IRC client, as I thought
<midfavila>
but I need a desk to study properly and the guy who has my desk hasn't dropped it off yet ree
<sad_plan>
did you buy a new one, or did someone borrow your desk?
<midfavila>
my old desk a) fell apart when i moved my PC and b) had to be left behind when i moved because 1) too heavy and 2) after i bolted it back together i didn't want to risk it falling apart again
<midfavila>
so yeah i bought a new one the other day
<midfavila>
or, well, my old writing desk fell apart
<midfavila>
my standing desk for my PC is still going strong but it's not really suitable for studying
<niceguy5000[m]>
This is why you buy steel desk they never break.
<sad_plan>
I see
<midfavila>
unfortunately i'm a poor
<sad_plan>
steel desks are really heavy though
<midfavila>
you can also usually disassemble them
<sad_plan>
sure, but theyre still really heavy.
<midfavila>
better to be able to disassemble and move a steel desk in pieces than have a single 150lb slab of oak that you need five guys working in shifts to haul up and down stairs
<sad_plan>
I have a steel workbench in my garasje, and I can bearly lift one side. and its not even that big
<midfavila>
i use links to fetch media and then links passes it to a plumbing script that hands it off to a relevant local program
<midfavila>
in the case of video, audio and animated images that would be ffplay
<midfavila>
invoked through another script, fpv
<midfavila>
links->plumber->fpv->ffplay
<sad_plan>
whats your beef with mpv and ytdl? or yt-dlp which is what most people use now that ytdl has stopped developement
<midfavila>
i also have a branch in plumber to allow it to retrieve video from invidious directly using my invidious client invcli when it's provided a youtube or invidious link directly
<midfavila>
ytdl or whatever it is now requires python
<midfavila>
python is gay
<midfavila>
mpv requires lua and doesn't add any features i care about on top of ffplay
<sad_plan>
do you not have python at all? but sure, I can see the arguement
<sad_plan>
not strictly, but to play straight from internet, it does need lua
<midfavila>
the only things i have installed that use python are gdb and qemu, and that's only because this is my main workstation
<midfavila>
on my laptop i don't have python at all
<sad_plan>
in any case, if ffplay works, I dont see any reason to use mpv
<midfavila>
ffplay can play straight from the internet without lua :^)
<sad_plan>
nice
<midfavila>
but yeah no my setup is basically just a pile of shell scripts
<midfavila>
as ritchie intended
<niceguy5000[m]>
what program downloads the video?
<sad_plan>
I need to script more. even for trivial things
<niceguy5000[m]>
does it just pipe to ffplay?
<midfavila>
niceguy5000[m]: links in the case of browsing, whatever your http client is in terms of invcli
<midfavila>
i need to rewrite apport again because i think the module-based design is an evolutionary dead end but it's already at a point where it can semi-consistently serve as the engine of invcli
<midfavila>
i've also used it with curl, wget, aria2c and axel
<midfavila>
sad_plan: if you need to do something more than twice, you should write a script to do it
<midfavila>
you can also reduce the implementation complexity of your system by writing small scripts instead of using more featureful C/C++/whatever programs
<niceguy5000[m]>
what torrent client do you use?
<midfavila>
for example instead of using a daemon like f.lux to manage screen temps i have a script that uses a bc function to map the current time onto an inverse bell curve, which is then fed to brownout. that achieves the same effect with a fair bit less complexity
<midfavila>
and i use btpd
<midfavila>
(the script i wrote is invoked by my session's crond)
<sad_plan>
midfavila: yeah I intend to write more scripts, aswell as actually learn C. but Im super slow to get there..
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<niceguy5000[m]>
All I know is machine learning using python! I wonder if this is useful in UNIX programming /s.
<midfavila>
someone in #Jobs suggested i learn python to get a job working with ChatGPT the other day
<midfavila>
really had to bite my tongue on that one
<niceguy5000[m]>
surely you know python? it'
<midfavila>
i know enough to read it
<midfavila>
once i wrote a portscanner in it
<niceguy5000[m]>
it's like scratch with extra steps.
<midfavila>
as fun as it is to meme on python, no, it's not that bad
<midfavila>
it's not useless in general, it's just useless to me\
<midfavila>
anything that i would want to do, i could do in scheme 9 or shell or c
<midfavila>
agh i never realized just how much i depended on my laptop for prototyping stuff
<midfavila>
since it broke i've done barely any programming because my regular workstation is so inconducive to actual work
<shokara_>
"yes, patched to support xembed so i can use it with tabbed" do you mind sharing the patch?