ChanServ changed the topic of #kisslinux to: Unnofficial KISS Linux community channel | | post logs or else | song of the day
<shokara_> sounds like a lot of extra attack surface
<shokara_> a lot of extra unnecessary* attack surface
<niceguy5000[m]> what does? it's only 4 tools.
<dotkwa[m]> the most secure system at all is just unplugging your ethernet, winkwink
<dotkwa[m]> s/at/of/
<niceguy5000[m]> is it usable?
<shokara_> yes
<shokara_> you can transfer files with usb drives
<niceguy5000[m]> like download and watch offline? Like download the internet and watch offline too?
<shokara_> yes
<shokara_> I think that's how people use airgapped computers?
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<Laith> hello
<davidgarland> o/
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<davidgarland> qq what'd I do to deserve that
<sewn> Hi
<davidgarland> o/
<testuser[m]123> Hi
<davidgarland> hallo
<Ellowee[m]> No network adapters, all outbound i/o occurs through a buffer
<Ellowee[m]> s/outbound//
<Ellowee[m]> Silly me with oxymoron
<niceguy5000[m]> <Ellowee[m]> "No network adapters, all..." <- you mean pipe videos and pages through nc and watch them offline?
<niceguy5000[m]> on a different machine?
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<midfavila> >implying that network adapters don't use a buffer
<midfavila> >he hasn't read TCP/IP Illustrated
<midfavila> ara ara
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<midfavila> >need a smartphone to use a device for a medical assessment
<midfavila> the botnet is literally trying to fuckig kill me what the hell
<midfavila> i hate living in 2023
<sewn> stop using technology and disappear into the wilderness of canada
<midfavila> need tools before i can do that
<midfavila> need money before tools
<midfavila> need certs before job
<midfavila> need job before money
<midfavila> ree
<midfavila> need money before certs
<sewn> just leave nothing behind and go naked, boom
<midfavila> when it can reach -50c in the winter nothx
<sewn> wth are you in antarctica
<midfavila> no but an arctic storm did just pass through the other week
<midfavila> so
<midfavila> also kind of yes in a way
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<sad_plan> midfavila: do you even get this bs with sbase cp? cp: /tmp/1750/extract/fontconfig/etc/fonts/conf.d/10-hinting-slight.conf -> /etc/fonts/conf.d/./10-hinting-slight.conf: same file
<midfavila> are you using my configuration package?
<midfavila> if so then yes
<midfavila> i should probably look at it at some point but i barely use scalable fonts any more
<midfavila> so it's like
<midfavila> eh
<sad_plan> no, im just using sbase. ive had this issue for some time. removing fontconfig first, will work
<sad_plan> same here: cp: /tmp/11946/extract/baselayout/etc/mtab -> /etc/./mtab: same file
<sad_plan> what configure package are you refering to btw? I got curious
<midfavila> oh i have a repo on my gitea to store some of my configs and i install them using kiss
<midfavila> or at least i used to
<midfavila> maybe i got rid of it idk
<midfavila> i haven't really played with kiss since my laptop broke
<midfavila> don't have much energy as of late
<sad_plan> I see. what are you using now instead?
<midfavila> i'm still using kiss
<midfavila> i'm just not working on my distro
<sad_plan> ah, just not messed with it. gotchu
<midfavila> ye
<midfavila> the next time i install kiss it'll be my own hard fork, and it'll break compat with basically everything i use atm
<midfavila> so before i do that i need to write software for most of my daily needs
<midfavila> and that requires more time and energy than i have rn
<sad_plan> I bet. still going to use tcc and bearssl?
<midfavila> indeed
<sad_plan> cool
<sad_plan> im considering trying out bearssl too, but Im abit torn as to why I even should. would probably end up installing libressl anyway due to some packages..
<sad_plan> so I probably wont :p
<midfavila> tcc/{s, u}base/netbsd-curses/libz/tinyalsa/bearssl+libtls/tinyx+xaw etc will comprise the core as i'm sure i've mentioned endless times in the past
<midfavila> and if you don't have a reason to use bearssl, use libre/open
<midfavila> bearssl is good if you want a very, very small and very, very simple tls implementation
<midfavila> it's not good if you want to use preexisting software
<sad_plan> might I add checking out sndio? instead of alsa. should be able to use tinyalsa + sndio.
<midfavila> why would i use tinyalsa+sndio instead of tinyalsa
<sad_plan> sure. I like minimal software, but to some extent
<midfavila> sell me on it
<sad_plan> sndio is smaller than alsa
<midfavila> sure but i still need alsa utils and stuff
<midfavila> at least while i continue to use linux
<midfavila> or is sndio standalone?
<midfavila> i know obsd can use it directly
<sad_plan> sndio is standalone
<sad_plan> both mpv and ffmpeg supports it
<midfavila> don't care too much about existing software supporting it
<midfavila> care more about the overall complexity of the tech stack
<midfavila> sndio+tinyalsa from my perspective wouldn't offer much in exchange for the increased complexity
<midfavila> maybe i'll look into it when i start writing a music player
<sad_plan> iirc, sndio is less complex. but I might be wrong here
<midfavila> sure but
<midfavila> i still need alsa sitting on the disk to take advantage of it under linux
<midfavila> so it's a non-starter
<sad_plan> why? do you use packages that strictly use alsa-lib?
<midfavila> i intend to write software that uses it, so
<midfavila> idk like i said i'll probably look into sndio in the future because i don't have much information to go off of rn
<midfavila> but just looking at it like i would normally, it doesn't seem like adding it to the mix rn would get me anything
<sad_plan> the idea was initially to just use something else than alsa-lib+tinyalsa. for me anyway
<sad_plan> Ive used it in the past, but now I cant for the life of me get it to work. im not sure why
<sad_plan> but back to what I initially was curious about; you havent had the issue I mentioned with sbase cp?
<midfavila> not that i can recall, but then i don't make a habit of installing fontconfig and friends
<midfavila> neither xaw nor motif need them
<sad_plan> hm, baselayout?
* midfavila shrugs
<sad_plan> hm.. strange
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<shokara_> sndio might be standalone on openbsd, but as I understand it, doesn't it just sit on top of alsa in linux?
<midfavila> ^my concern
<shokara_> the only benefit I see with this is having per-program sound control without needing something more complex like pulseaudio/pipewire or jack1/2
<shokara_> but personally, the only time I ever used per-program sound control was when I had online classes and I had music playing in the background
<midfavila> yeah it's a meme
<midfavila> even then a lot of programs that play back audio have inbuilt volume control
<shokara_> and I have a physical volume knob that I use instead on my amp
<shokara_> much more convenient
<midfavila> like obviously it would be nice if the sound subsystem of the kernel managed that instead of individual programs duplicating functionality, but while in rome...
<shokara_> ackhsuallyra, oss had that but it got deprecated
<shokara_> and removed in recent kernels iirc
<midfavila> yeah in 1993 lmao
<midfavila> or thereabouts
<midfavila> kind of irrelevant these days
<shokara_> the only place I still see oss being used is in freebsd
<shokara_> so yeah
<midfavila> when i get around to hacking on operating systems i'll probably start contributing to sortix
<midfavila> or, well, i'll look at it
<midfavila> i don't like having to duplicate effort but c++ for an OS isn't something i want
<shokara_> I personally don't want c++ in anything
<midfavila> in all seriousness i don't know enough about OO or C++ to seriously critique it
<midfavila> but i do know that c++ and associated tools have reps for being overly complex
<shokara_> I really dislike its syntax
<midfavila> i still wouldn't mind writing an OS in scheme
<shokara_> I find it to be a bastardization of C's cleaner syntax.
<shokara_> a scheme os like a lisp machine?
<midfavila> dunno! maybe even a boring old posix implementation
<shokara_> that would still be very neat
<midfavila> i'm really not that knowledgeable about computing, so i can't say what i'd like the system's architecture to be
<shokara_> I only know of os's written in c, c++, rust, go (all with some assembly sprinkled in), and forth
<midfavila> but i *do* know that i'd like to have a scheme r4rs-like language without garbage collection or automatic memory management to make the kernel, and then atop that use r7rs-l for userspace programs
<midfavila> write a microkernel perhaps so that stuff that would normally be in-kernel can have garbage collection
<midfavila> gc would need to be optional though so you can write realtime code
<midfavila> i know of a couple oddball OSes
<midfavila> one written in haskell and another in common lisp
<midfavila> haskell OS
<midfavila> common lisp OS
<midfavila> there are also OSes written in pascal
<midfavila> as well as modula/modula-2 and oberon
<midfavila> those being the p-system, the lilith operating system(s), and the oberon system
<midfavila> aa most of what i want to do is like
<midfavila> usually the subject of a PhD thesis goddamn
<midfavila> i hate being a degreelet aaaaaaaaaaa
<davidgarland> as far as languages go I wish there were something like MLton for Standard ML but with haskell's typeclasses
<davidgarland> MLton monomorphizes and defunctionalizes everything, so it doesn't have unnecessary boxing all over the place
<midfavila> i keep hearing people talk about Standard ML but it's too bigged-brained for me to really get rn
<midfavila> seems cool though
<davidgarland> nah you could understand it easy
<davidgarland> I mean the module system has some annoying ad hoc shit to it but
<davidgarland> core langauge is simple
<davidgarland> *language
<midfavila> meant more like, the underlying concepts
<midfavila> language design and all that
<davidgarland> ah
<davidgarland> he hasn't done an article on algorithm W / J for typechecking (for that I'd look up "how ocaml typechecker works" or smth like that, there's a nice writeup for it) but I have a friend who does a blog that details some of that kind of stuff:
<davidgarland> if implementation is what interests you
<midfavila> will definitely look, but a cursory glance shows it's way beyond me atm
<midfavila> and yeah, it definitely does - i'd like to design interpreters and compilers and stuff in the future - but my everything is too shoddy for that rn
<shokara_> davidgarland: does he have an rss/atom feed?
<davidgarland> unsure, I'll ask him once firefox is finished reinstalling, it won't launch because libvpx got an update lol
<davidgarland> shokara_: asked and he said "I don't have one because I maintain the blog as a kind of awkward static site"
<davidgarland> to quote him word for word
<midfavila> your friend is my spirit animal
<shokara_> ah that's still fine
<shokara_> he still has a very cool site
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<midfavila> this looks pretty cool
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<midfavila> libretrend website is back up
<midfavila> turns out they went under in 2020
<midfavila> n i c e