ChanServ changed the topic of #kisslinux to: Unnofficial KISS Linux community channel | https://kisscommunity.org | post logs or else | song of the day: http://yewtu.be/M0SnXBV1LJA
<bibliocar> A simpler alternative to the linux kernel.
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<sad_plan> huh, why doesnt kiss respect using curly braces when using mkdir -p?
<sad_plan> i.e. mkdir -p foo/{bar,baz}
<sad_plan> which makes foo/bar and foo/baz, but kiss instead makes foo/{bar,baz} as its names instead
<acheam> brace expansion is a bash extension
<acheam> closest you can get I guess is:
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<acheam> for i in bar baz; do mkdir -p foo/$i; done
<acheam> hello phoebos
<phoebos> ^
<phoebos> hei
<phoebos> turns out my bouncer was playing up so maybe i've been talking to myself for a few days
<acheam> now if we all used a lisp shell, this wouldn't be an issue harumph
<acheam> phoebos: no we were just ignoring you
<acheam> gigs up, guys
<sad_plan> aah. the more you know.
<sad_plan> lol ^
<phoebos> oh ok
* phoebos cries in the corner
* sad_plan pats with a broom
<phoebos> : )
<acheam> oh my
<phoebos> idk why pounce didn't exit though
<acheam> what a long face you have
<phoebos> all the better for looking with
<acheam> what small eyes you have
<phoebos> that's just mean
<phoebos> 8 (
<acheam> you best turn that frown upside down little boy
<sad_plan> did you have to put on those glasses to make your eyes appear bigger?
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<phoebos> err, *defensively* no
<phoebos> ) 8
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<dilyn> `npm-core: failed to open file` :o >=|
<dilyn> noocsharp you have failed me:'(
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<acheam> oh hey, its midfavila-laptop
<midfavila-laptop> hey DWEEB
<acheam> hey BEEWD
<midfavila-laptop> i hope you've had a nice day acheam uwu
<acheam> i was until you got here, beewd
<midfavila-laptop> really more of a baawd tyvm
<midfavila-laptop> unfortunately for you I at least intend to harass and generally terrorize you all for a good hour and a half
<acheam> noooooo
<midfavila-laptop> that's right, you have to tolerate me screeching about things I barely know about
<midfavila-laptop> what will you do now
<acheam> its past your bedtime
<acheam> go to sleep
<midfavila-laptop> you're not my dad stfu
<acheam> i cant believe that you think you're going to stay up until 1am young man
<midfavila-laptop> besides i'm rewatching one of my favorite animes
<midfavila-laptop> also i'm not i'm going to stay up until midnight
<midfavila-laptop> menight
<acheam> ugh hes a weeb
* acheam cant do math
<midfavila-laptop> it's okay I can't do math either
<midfavila-laptop> what I *can* do is set up a Scalable:tm: and Enterprise:r: and IoT of Things:c: network
<midfavila-laptop> which is totally happening rn
<midfavila-laptop> fuck I probably should be studying instead of consuming content actually
<midfavila-laptop> i haven't touched my copy of basic mathematics in like a week
<acheam> conzoom
<dilyn> the zoomer conzoomers the noombers
<midfavila-laptop> i'm still consooming real numbers
<midfavila-laptop> real brainlet hours
<dilyn> imagine working in a field whose elements aren't vectors smdh
<midfavila-laptop> look i'm sure that'll be covered when I study like
<midfavila-laptop> idfk linear algebra or some shit
<dilyn> maybe a bit :v
<midfavila-laptop> just slightly
<dilyn> probably crop up once you get to spectral theory
<dilyn> a bit of an advanced topic
<dilyn> or jacobians
<midfavila-laptop> ugh disgusting
<dilyn> :V
<midfavila-laptop> i just want to learn math so I can coompute goodly
<midfavila-laptop> and like
<midfavila-laptop> micro-optimize my grocery list and route
<midfavila-laptop> still waiting for my books on logic :|
<dilyn> frege's basic law V gonna blow your mind
<midfavila-laptop> i mean probably
<midfavila-laptop> what blew my mind is when I found out the other day that taking the percentage of a number is commutative
<midfavila-laptop> makes total sense thinking about it, but it was just one of those "well fuck" moments
<dilyn> 5 percent of 90 is 90 percent of 5
<dilyn> lub it
<midfavila-laptop> oh and I ended up cancelling my wolfram account
<midfavila-laptop> their pricing system is super shitty so I'm just gonna like
<midfavila-laptop> idk probably attempt to port sagemath to kiss at some point
<acheam> also its proprietary garbage
<midfavila-laptop> wait, *is* it? as far as I was aware it was composed entirely of open source software
<midfavila-laptop> the whole thing is GPL3 according to their site and wikipedia
<midfavila-laptop> oh, you were referring to wolfram. yeah, no, that's fair
<midfavila-laptop> i didn't really like that part of it, nor that it's only available via the web
<acheam> oh yeah not sagemath
<acheam> well there is mathematica which is offline
<midfavila-laptop> yeah but I somehow doubt it runs on KISS
<midfavila-laptop> :v
<midfavila-laptop> or on ARM for that matter, which is an eventual concern of mine
<acheam> just a slight doubt that they dont have static binaries
<acheam> ew sagemath is python
<midfavila-laptop> and Fortran, and Ruby, and Common Lisp, and C, and C++, and JavaScript...
<midfavila-laptop> ...and R...
<midfavila-laptop> fortunately it has an emacs interface
<midfavila-laptop> so no need to use its gross web frontend
<noocsharp> one of the first things i'm gonna do when my language is mature enough is to write a math library with number theory stuff
<noocsharp> so i can dogfood by doing project euler problems
<midfavila-laptop> that sounds like it would be fun
<midfavila-laptop> i've considered giving PE a shot but I don't think I understand mathematics enough to be able to solve problems of any real complexity
<acheam> imagine doing math for fun
<noocsharp> project euler is an excellent way to learn new math
<noocsharp> well some number theory at least
<bibliocar> project euler is all math with a little programming thrown in.
<midfavila-laptop> imagine literally being acheam
<midfavila-laptop> and yeah I have no doubt in my mind that PE is an excellent resource. it's on my list, but I have so much other stuff to get through first
<noocsharp> dilyn: bruh how
<dilyn> idk god. make; ./npm a test (y, test) results in this output
<dilyn> s/god/guy/
<noocsharp> lol, `tr` hangs when i try that
<noocsharp> down the rabbit hole we go
<testuser[m]> Hi
<acheam> hello
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<noocsharp> oh dilyn, you have to run npm init
<noocsharp> i should document that in the help
<dilyn> :V
<dilyn> kekv
<dilyn> mfw
<noocsharp> and i should check for that whenever the program starts
<sad_plan> /quit
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<midfavila-laptop> >mfw >>kekv >>>mfw
<dilyn> you heard me
<midfavila-laptop> >mfw I didn't
<midfavila-laptop> what are you gonna do about it dilyn
<midfavila-laptop> send me to the dean's office?
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<noocsharp> try now, see if you get the same error
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<dilyn> indeed, npm init lets me create passwords
<dilyn> can't seem to retrieve them tho:P
<noocsharp> yes, i screwed up the check on the last commit
<noocsharp> force pull
<dilyn> "/usr/bin/npm[276]: here document `EOF' unclosed" lmao
<noocsharp> what command does this happen on?
<noocsharp> wait i'm an absolute idiot
<noocsharp> those tabs were there for a reason
<noocsharp> maybe i should test it locally before i push commits
<dilyn> nah that's dumb
<dilyn> i am the testbed
<noocsharp> 3rd times a charm
<noocsharp> fixed the heredocs
<noocsharp> sh is an esolang
<noocsharp> change my mind
<acheam> that aint sh
<dilyn> > failed to connect to socket: no such file or directory
<dilyn> > failed to get absolute path of .npmcheck
<noocsharp> the first one is because npm-agent isn't running
<noocsharp> acheam: sed is an esolang
<noocsharp> change my mind
<dilyn> npm doesn't start its own socket?? for shame!
<dilyn> but now it can't start the password retrieval program... because it doesn't exist?
<dilyn> harumph
<noocsharp> it defaults to bemenu
<dilyn> HNG
<noocsharp> you can change it in config.h
<dilyn> golly gee
<testuser[m]> Bruh use getenv
<dilyn> these secret GPL dependencies in my non GPL software :'(
<noocsharp> testuser[m]: for what?
<noocsharp> dilyn: there's no non-GPL wayland menu program?
<dilyn> i mean there are
<dilyn> but I don't need a launcher
<noocsharp> hasn't been touched in 3 years
<dilyn> there's rofi, yofi, gmenu...
<testuser[m]> noocsharp: for configuring the launcher
<dilyn> most wayland launchers are MIT lol
<noocsharp> i could put master password retrieval in npm, but you would lose password caching
<dilyn> meh
<noocsharp> or made the protocol a bit more complex
<noocsharp> to get npm-agent to accept a master password as input
<noocsharp> but that would defeat the point of having an agent to keep the master password secure in the first place
<noocsharp> perhaps you could use your terminal emulator in a clever way to act like a menu...
<dilyn> just encrypt passwords with ssh keys
<dilyn> safe and secure
<noocsharp> dmenu-wayland seems to work despite it's age
<noocsharp> would you just use openssl to do that?
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<Ralph1977> Hello dit anybody know why the build from ruby fails i have the error message [uncommon.mk:300: build-ext] Error 2
<testuser[m]> its cuz of openssl 3
<testuser[m]> ill fix it
<testuser[m]> wait
<Ralph1977> Thank you
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<phoebos> so many random things have the "unexpected eof" when the client uses openssl 3
<phoebos> i think it's an issue with some servers
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<noocsharp> i already ported msmtp to libtls, i wonder how hard it would be to port mbsync to libtls
<opalvaults[m]> how do people manage ssh keyrings in KISS?
<opalvaults[m]> is there a good keyring alternative to gnome-keyring-daemon to store keys and utilize ssh-agent?
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<opalvaults[m]> dilyn: I'll give this a try! I have a couple of keys that I need to manage so just looking for something so I'm not constantly putting in a password..
<opalvaults[m]> dilyn: how do you like ksh? I've been looking for a more minimal interactive shell.
<dilyn> it works very well for me! slower than dash, but feels nice and homey
<opalvaults[m]> Is it lighter than mksh?
<opalvaults[m]> I'll give it a shot :) ty for the rec
<dilyn> i never tested mksh but I think someone in here has... don't remember who tho
<testuser[m]> mksh doesnt work
<testuser[m]> with kiss the package manager
<dilyn> f
<testuser[m]> It was cuz of some glob thing
<opalvaults[m]> gotcha. I'd love to use KISS again. It's been a couple years since I've touched it. Is encryption of the root partition easier now? I know illiliti had an encryption package that was fairly prototypical
<dilyn> it's gotten easier!
<dilyn> though the documentation might still be lacking @illiliti
<opalvaults[m]> Hm, sounds like a good opportunity to contribute!
<dilyn> op_4 who's not here right now just got it up and running with FDE last week
<dilyn> yeah he'd probably appreciate it! XD
<opalvaults[m]> last question! can I compile Emacs on KISS? I used to only use vim but I've been a convert to evil+emacs. I know KISS is pretty anti-GNU so it wouldn't surprise me if it wasn't possible.
<noocsharp> emacs is in the community repo
<testuser[m]> U can do anything on anything
<opalvaults[m]> testuser: *with enough effort
<opalvaults[m]> noocsharp: cool! was this repo always separate from KISS?
<noocsharp> dylan used oversee it, but he disappeared for a while, kiss community took over both the main and community repo, and when he came back, he took over the main repo
<noocsharp> s/used/used to/
<opalvaults[m]> ah! didn't realize he came back. took a much needed break from software I imagine. :)
<opalvaults[m]> I figured he went the way of that Void Linux creator and disappeared into the wildnerness never to be seen again.
<noocsharp> well he's been gone recently too, hasn't come back from that afaik
<noocsharp> but he was also gone for the first half of 2020
<opalvaults[m]> Haven't talked to illiliti in a while either. Last I heard they were dreading conscription into the Russian military.
<noocsharp> 2021*
<opalvaults[m]> noocsharp: not surprising! Software can really suck you in from the real-world. Glad he's up to other things these days. also glad to see this IRC still active (although moved from freenode as I can see)
<opalvaults[m]> I think since KISS follows a minimalist/essentialist philosophy I think it's inevitable that a lot of its users abide by those same tenants and take much needed departures from constant technology-use.
<opalvaults[m]> I think that's what drew me to KISS linux in the first place. The only distro (seemingly still) that is both extremely usable and minimal.
<noocsharp> usable is relative
<noocsharp> if you had a different definition of usable you could go more minimal
<noocsharp> i imagine most people use software that wouldn't allow them to get away with using KISS
<opalvaults[m]> noocsharp: right, but I think we're in good company when I use the term 'usable' here.
<noocsharp> true
<testuser[m]> Zoom moment
<noocsharp> totally forgot, i still need to get my chroot working
<noocsharp> or be stuck using a bootable arch stick for another semester
<noocsharp> did you see my xorg log testuser[m]?
<noocsharp> i don't know how to interpret it
<testuser[m]> Oh sorry i missed it
<testuser[m]> Waiy
<testuser[m]> Wait
<noocsharp> i sent it in the middle of a netsplit, so wouldn't be surprised if you never got it
<testuser[m]> The link was there
<noocsharp> there's obviously something bad happening at the end with the libinput driver
<noocsharp> i used a static xorg config since normally arch relies on udev for autodetection
<dilyn> can we see those configs
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<omanom> clearly your xorg config disgusted him lol
<noocsharp> lmao
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<dilyn> it does but i'm also fscking with screensharing rn and chromium crashed lol
<dilyn> you said you're explicitly NOT using a device manager?
<dilyn> in order to get that to work I had to create individual conf files for each device, not just one monolithic xorg.conf
<noocsharp> i have mdev on kiss
<noocsharp> ok, i'll try that
<dilyn> oh well if you're using mdev you don't have to worry about xorg.conf at all really...
<testuser[m]> Hmm weird i can't make anything of the log either
<dilyn> unless you want to do something special
<testuser[m]> PreInit returned 2 for "<default keyboard>"
<dilyn> I think xorg just doesnt' recognize the device as a usable keyboard/input device
<dilyn> xorg logs are generally useless lmfao
<testuser[m]> There's a dbus error too, u sure arch xorg doesnt need dbus daemon (
<dilyn> for instance noocsharp this is what I did in either case: https://github.com/dilyn-corner/dotfiles/tree/master/.system/etc/X11/xorg.conf.d
<noocsharp> i don't think dbus should affect input
<dilyn> you'd be surprised
<dilyn> I never needed dbus on host to launch chromium but I also never launched a desktop in my chroot so i'm not sure what fuckery might happen
<noocsharp> i3 starts, but there's just no input
<dilyn> which doesn't necessarily rule out dbus :V :V :V
<sad_plan> noocsharp: what exacly are you trying to do? launch graphical enviroment in kiss from arch chroot? I havent been paying to much attention to it, so im just curious :p
<noocsharp> yeah, just to run zoom basically
<sad_plan> nice. Ive also been curious if that worked. I do recall trying it, but it didnt work, so I sortof just meh.
<sad_plan> why not just use browser?
<noocsharp> last i checked, zoom in the browser is garbage
<testuser[m]> Zoom is garbage
<sad_plan> zoom is garbage
<noocsharp> and my school requires the zoom client for sso i believe
<dilyn> zoom is garbagio
<sad_plan> so you cant get away with using it in a browser anyway?
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<testuser[m]> u could also use it on ur phone i guess
<omanom> zoom is better than microsoft teams, at least...
<testuser[m]> Assuming u have google spy services installed
<noocsharp> i'm ungoogled
<sad_plan> ^
<dilyn> google has been hoisted upon me :v
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<testuser[m]> How
<dilyn> my job:(
<noocsharp> zoom distributes a tarball with what appears to be every dependency of zoom
<noocsharp> maybe i can use that
<noocsharp> and just bubblewrap it
<testuser[m]> dilyn: isn't the jerb at canonical
<dilyn> yarhar
<dilyn> you could probably bubblewrap it if you also included libc and some extra stuff...
<dilyn> basically just create a flatpack
<noocsharp> unfortunately they include no instructions on how to install any of it
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<sad_plan> noocsharp: could this give you any tips? https://kb8ojh.net/elb/musings/tag/xpra
<sad_plan> it uses debian, and his goas was to use skype. i just skimmed breifly through though
<sad_plan> wait, no it seems he uses the old trick of just launching applications in an already running x session
<sad_plan> did you bind mount /run/udev? i found a thread where he was able to launch X, similarly to you, but no mouse/keyboard
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<noocsharp> i don't use udev, so there's no /run/udev
<phoebos> noocsharp: did you upload your libtls patches to msmtp anywhere
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<phoebos> oh upstream can use libtls
<sad_plan> but if you did, would it solve your issue?
* sad_plan shrugs
<sad_plan> ffs. why does libtool complain about a library was moved?
<sad_plan> im trying to build the recent release of xfsprogs, which suddenly require userspace-rcu. building it separatly work fine, but when trying to bundle it, it gives me issues..
<phoebos> oh cool you put it in upstream
<phoebos> doh
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<op_4> dilyn so zig has a repository called zig-boostrap (https://github.com/ziglang/zig-bootstrap) which goes from c compiler to statically linked zig. I'm trying to bundle this as a kiss package, would there be any interest in putting this into kiss-community?
<dilyn> always!
<op_4> great!
<op_4> erm, so, there's a slight problem :p I'm wondering whether i might pick your brain. For whatever reason the build script works if *i* run it, but if kiss does then it becomes confused about sourcing the correct llvm. Context: it builds llvm from scratch, then uses that version. This is probably something about cmake, but i don't know where to start looking. I don't suppose i could drag you into this?
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<op_4> maybe this should be a discussion to have on a github pr?
<omanom> it's fine to hold here, do you have a log file to look at showing that issue
<omanom> or kiss output
<op_4> omanom thanks :) i have a log file, do you have a preferred pastebin?
<omanom> ix.io works fine
<op_4> omanom //ix.io/3M6G
<op_4> oops, https://ix.io/3M6G
<op_4> welp, no http
<op_4> third try: omanom http://ix.io/3M6G
<omanom> XD
<op_4> it's sources, depends, version, build, and finally log
<op_4> i believe it failed at the first build of zig, just after building llvm
<dilyn> bash is a dep for this project
<dilyn> `  LLVM (according to /usr/bin/llvm-config) is missing target AArch64.` it's having the same problem as always hmhm
<op_4> dilyn thanks, i'll add bash. Anyway, if i do this build outside of this kiss env, as in run this script in an appropriate directory, it passes that point
<op_4> because it references the correct llvm version (the one it just built)
<dilyn> presumably it's setting $PATH at some point?
<dilyn> it fails because it's using /usr/bin/llvm-config instead of the one you built
<dilyn> change path to $ROOTDIR/out/host/usr/bin:$PATH or w/e it is
<op_4> ooooh
<op_4> incidentally, i'm sure we could inline some of the bash specific stuff in this script and avoid the dependency
<dilyn> but also because you're just running builds manually and not using whatever script this repo bundles you won't need bash
<op_4> right
<op_4> so yeah, i don't really know what i'm doing, but i think this is pretty close to a solution (not a great one, but /a/ solution)
<op_4> alright, well i've changed PATH at the first point in the script and i'll re-run the build to see. Unfortunately building LLVM on my laptop takes ~4 hours :/
<dilyn> oh jeez lol
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<op_4> dilyn in the mean time, would kiss-community be interested in mksh?
<op_4> oh lol, it's there
<op_4> XD
<dilyn> community is quite large haha
<dilyn> we've dipped below 400 packages now tho. we're losing it!
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<op_4> well i hope to contribute zig and btop++
<op_4> (at least)
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<dilyn> setting PATH won't work because zig is using a cmake file to locate llvm smdh
<dilyn> how do you override those I wonder...
<op_4> dilyn: well, no need to wait ~4 hours then :p
<op_4> thanks for the tip
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