ChanServ changed the topic of #kisslinux to: Unnofficial KISS Linux community channel | https://kisscommunity.org | post logs or else | song of the day: http://yewtu.be/fG0xfGZSmR4
<midfavila-laptop> sdorfehs, yeah
<midfavila-laptop> i'm not super into tilers though
<midfavila-laptop> it also seems kind of bloated n g l
<midfavila-laptop> if 9wm had I3CM and partial EWMH and nixed the window decor I'd probably just use it
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<maximum_yellow> midfavila-laptop if you were to write i stripped-down manual tiler i'd be interested, just saying
<midfavila-laptop> Fair enough! I'd like to try my hand at a standalone tiling management program at *some* point, for what it's worth
<midfavila-laptop> Once I understand C more, I'll be writing a lot of window managers, I think - there've been a bunch of ideas bouncing around on notes
<midfavila-laptop> Long road until I'm at that point, though, I think
<maximum_yellow> cool, i look forward to seeing the results
* midfavila-laptop nodnods
<midfavila-laptop> Before any of that happens though, I want to try and remove gcc from my fork's base install
<midfavila-laptop> Already removed git and curl
<midfavila-laptop> hoping I can write a simple HTTP agent soon:tm:
<midfavila-laptop> http://0x0.st/oXFr.png
<midfavila-laptop> today's been spent on Xaw
<midfavila-laptop> patched XLess and XRN to handle TrueType when linked against Xaw3dXft
<midfavila-laptop> barely increased runtime memory requirements which is really nice
<maximum_yellow> midfavila-laptop interesting, are you using clang? or perhaps something more exotic like cproc or tcc?
<midfavila-laptop> yesn't
<midfavila-laptop> pcc
<midfavila-laptop> aka the one true unix C compiler
<midfavila-laptop> aka "that thing from system five"
* maximum_yellow has never heard of that
<midfavila-laptop> it was (one of?) the first portable C compiler
<midfavila-laptop> the original UNIX C compiler relied on a hand-written parser and intricate knowledge of the PDP-11's register architecture
<maximum_yellow> interesting
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<midfavila-laptop> that's also the source of the "You aren't expected to understand this." comment for unix v6's process management code
<maximum_yellow> what do you use xaw for? writing your own gui stuff or are there still programmes built against it?
<maximum_yellow> hah, til
<midfavila-laptop> there are older programs that rely on the Athena widgets that I use daily
<midfavila-laptop> namely XDM, XTerm, XLess and XCalc
<midfavila-laptop> but I intend to use Athena as the basis for my own GUI programs
<maximum_yellow> any reason in particular compared to, say, motif or fltk or others?
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<midfavila-laptop> it's entirely C, it's a very small widget set in terms of codebase size and number of widgets, it's designed to be extended, and it's exceptionally efficient, even compared to motif and fltk
<midfavila-laptop> it also maintains backward and forward API and ABI compatiblity between forks
<midfavila-laptop> so a program compiled against Xaw will work against Xaw3d, Xaw3dXft, Xaw3dXpm, neXtaw, XawPlus, and so on
<maximum_yellow> i'm impressed, i thought that fltk took the small/light title but i suppose it aims to be more feature complete
<maximum_yellow> huh
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<midfavila-laptop> Yeah. FLTK is also cross-platform - the Athena spec is *exclusively* X11
<midfavila-laptop> it's probably the closest Unix has to a platform-specific GUI toolkit
<midfavila-laptop> since even Motif is cross-platform
<midfavila-laptop> but yeah Xaw3dXft, which is an extended version of Xaw3d, itself an extension of Xaw, is only around 30k lines of C, including headers
<maximum_yellow> i'm not convinced that that's a benefit, but sure
<maximum_yellow> (the cross platform thing)
<midfavila-laptop> for comparison, XTerm is ~75k
<midfavila-laptop> and I mean, it's not if you do cross-platform programming
<maximum_yellow> 30k is impressive, though i wonder what sort of `modern' niceities it's missing
<midfavila-laptop> in terms of aesthetics? a lot
<midfavila-laptop> it's uh
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<midfavila-laptop> "spartan" is being polite
<maximum_yellow> right, but i mean even widget wise
<midfavila-laptop> well, it has text sinks, command buttons, radio and checkboxes, a clock widget, graph widget, and a bunch of other primitives
<midfavila-laptop> the thing about Xaw though is that if you need more specialized widgets, you can almost certainly find ones that are suitable online
<midfavila-laptop> or just like, write them, if it's *really* necessary
<phoebos> illiliti: do you have libxml2 installed
<midfavila-laptop> i think the main big widget that's missing is a notebook widget. with tabs and stuff
<midfavila-laptop> but not entirely sure
<maximum_yellow> hmm
<maximum_yellow> well sounds like a fun exercise in minimalism
<midfavila-laptop> Mmh. The important part is that it gets me programming
<midfavila-laptop> If I can remove GTK2 from my system in the process, all the better
<maximum_yellow> what's the matter with GTK2?
<midfavila-laptop> Explicitly unsupported, not even for maintenance, wildly complex codebase, difficult to work with (in my limited experience), slow and heavy compared to Xaw and Motif, doesn't work well over networks...
<midfavila-laptop> customization of GTK2 is becoming harder and harder as time goes on and existing resources suffer from bitrot, too
<maximum_yellow> fair, i hadn't realised it was EOL
<midfavila-laptop> it's been EOL for years
* maximum_yellow doesn't really pay attention to what GTK is doing
<midfavila-laptop> i don't either tbqh :P
<illiliti> phoebos: build still fails even with libxml2
<illiliti> Error: Install DocBook DTDs or './configure --disable-doc'
<phoebos> do you have a /bin/xmlcatalog
<illiliti> yep
<phoebos> if you're building from community try doing https://tmp.bvnf.space/0001-neomutt-fix-build-without-libxml2.patch
<phoebos> replace xmlcatalog with /bin/true
<illiliti> it works thanks
<phoebos> thanks for letting me know
<phoebos> i should really make fresh chroots each time i build a package
<phoebos> or we should switch to something like nix for "reproducible builds"
<midfavila-laptop> yeah that's a good idea
<midfavila-laptop> re:chroots
<phoebos> mhm
<illiliti> we should really have ci
<phoebos> ^
<midfavila-laptop> i build each of the packages in my ports/official in a fresh env
<midfavila-laptop> "ci"?
<phoebos> continuous integration? i.e. automatic builds on each commit
<midfavila-laptop> Aah.
<midfavila-laptop> I'm not much of a devops guy fwiw
<midfavila-laptop> I wonder if I could set that up on SDF...
<midfavila-laptop> feel like membership would get pretty pissy at me though lmao
<midfavila-laptop> "hey we've noticed you're using 70%+ CPU time - can you like don't"
<phoebos> https://builds.sr.ht does it nicely for some projects
<midfavila-laptop> nifty
<phoebos> is github/jedahan on here? kiss-find's build has been failing for 10 days
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<Rohan> hi guys
<Rohan> anyone know something about cgroups?
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<testuser[m]> Hi
<Rohan> hi
<midfavila-laptop> hi
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<testuser[m]> > we have been working with a team from Meta (formerly Facebook)
<testuser[m]> 🤨
<midfavila-laptop> saw that a while ago. pozilla at it again
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<mmatongo> Anyone one?
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<testuser[m]> Wat
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<phoebos> hei mmatongo
<mmatongo> Hi guys
<phoebos> how's it
<mmatongo> all good, just a little exhausted from the day
<mmatongo> You?
<phoebos> also tired. spent the whole day avoiding doing actual work though
<phoebos> been playing with uxn instead of writing my lab report
<mmatongo> What is uxn
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<mmatongo> I've been trying to figure out why node on Kiss and it's derivatives doesn't compile right
<phoebos> virtual machine with 32 opcodes
<phoebos> it's very simple and very easy to do graphics and music etc
<testuser[m]> mmatongo: cuz node is haram
<mmatongo> giving me plan9 vibes
<mmatongo> testuser[m]: but I need it :(
<phoebos> :(
<mmatongo> https://github.com/oznu/alpine-node found that as a temp fix for my problems
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<illiliti> go ecosystem is deeply flawed you see
<illiliti> rust in the same boat
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