<necro>
depends imo, most modern guis are far too complicated and compacted
<noocsharp>
GUIs are great when they work, and do exactly what you need them to
<necro>
ye pre much
<necro>
when they dont, i *personally* find them confusing and a TUI or CLI works better
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<noocsharp>
in xfce, i made a binding for dmenu, and it only works sometimes
<noocsharp>
no idea why
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<acheam>
sure yeah I get that
<acheam>
but take email clients as an example
<acheam>
i've used both mutt and aerc
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<acheam>
both required a lot of tinkering to get going well, and didn't improve my efficiency over GUI clients very much, save for easier access to "git am"
<acheam>
compared to claws mail, which I set up in 2 min and was instantly intuitive, supporting all the features of the aformentioned TUI clients
<acheam>
anyhow, of course its all personal preference
<necro>
email clients are a good example yeah
<acheam>
just pointing out that I kind of forgot how nice GUIs can be sometimes
<necro>
but man fuck their options
<necro>
outlook can foad
<acheam>
i miss mansy :(
<acheam>
or is it mancy?
<acheam>
whatever the rest of necro is
<necro>
mansy's how ive been using it, but its technically mancy
necro is now known as necromansy
<necromansy>
:>
<acheam>
:)
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<noocsharp>
i value simplicity in implementation over ease of use
<noocsharp>
i'd totally use a gui email client if i could avoid gtk, but alas
<testuser[m]>
Hi
<noocsharp>
hello
<acheam>
thats a fair point
<necromansy>
hey there
<necromansy>
i think if you're going for a GUI ease of use should be primary concern
<noocsharp>
afaict, there's not a great reason a gui implementation can't be simple
<noocsharp>
it's just that none of them are
<noocsharp>
except for like raw wayland
<necromansy>
imo i think a simple implementation should lead pre easily into good ease of use
<necromansy>
so yeah idk why you cant have a simple gui implementation
<acheam>
the problem is scalability
<noocsharp>
?
<acheam>
for a gui toolkit be useful it needs a decent number of fairly complex widgets
<acheam>
as the project gets more complex, it gets more and more layers of complexity
<acheam>
until you get to something like gtk
<noocsharp>
but i think a project with an explicit goal to avoid that complexity could, and still be a good gui toolkit
<acheam>
maybe
<acheam>
but it'd be a truckload of work
<acheam>
also would probably be tied to a single display system unless you either want to duplicate all of your code, or implement some of those middle layers
<acheam>
take motif for an example
<acheam>
its a good GUI toolkit IMO
<noocsharp>
i think a middle layer with a few simple drawing primitives (rects, text, buffer copying) would do the job
<acheam>
idk if I'd want to write a full email client in it, but its still nice to work with
<acheam>
however its tied to xorg
<acheam>
I think mid had his eye on a project similar to what we're describing, I forget what its called
<claudia>
acheam: I had obsd still on a spare machine, but I wiped it to use it to build chromium.
<acheam>
no this is the last one iirc
<acheam>
just sed out cvs
<acheam>
I doubt that you want it
<acheam>
claudia: there is a chromium port though, right?
<claudia>
yes.
<claudia>
But I only used firefox.
<claudia>
firefox-esr is usually in 'packages-stable' which are updated packages to use with 'release'. So you have updated browser without going current.
<testuser[m]>
what the fuck, `ulimit -n 4096` isn't enough to build the latest chromium, neither is `ulimit -n 9999`. i had to do `ulimit -n 999999`. Which means you need to go root to build it lol
<necromansy>
i usually have to set it to unlimited when building lapack
<schillingklaus>
as kiss trashes libressl, soon nothing openbsd-related will remain on it
<testuser[m]>
openssl builds much faster than libressl for some reason
<testuser[m]>
dilyn: it works but I think the check they perform is security critical
<testuser[m]>
so we shouldn't ifdef it out
<testuser[m]>
Wtf id their problem in writing portable code
<testuser[m]>
just make a regular wrapper like checkClose()
<testuser[m]>
Nice jedahan
<testuser[m]>
Since its defined in a .c file, it overrides the close() function for the whole codebase regardless of whether the file is included, so we can't turn it into a portable macro either
<acheam>
micro_O: nice, IIRC galaxynova was working on something similar
<dilyn>
jesus
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<akira01>
dilyn:
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<dilyn>
akira01:
<akira01>
Im dumb with git
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<akira01>
what you mean in lynx openssl?
<akira01>
is about the amount of commits?
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<dilyn>
yeah, they're all garbage as far as the PR is concerned
<dilyn>
hey, musl's close also has a weak alias!
<dilyn>
except... weak_alias(dummy, __aio_close);
<akira01>
dont know yet how use git in cli
<akira01>
any good wiki?
<micro_O>
eyyy i found two linting errors in kisslinux/repo/extra
<micro_O>
though it might be an error with my linter itself
<dilyn>
I gave you the three commands to use akira01
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<Guest56>
POSIX way to have multi-line variable? Doing new line in script you need to break indentation rules and it looks ugly.
<dilyn>
you could do what i think kiss does/did, which is just define newline='
<dilyn>
'
<dilyn>
and then just use $newline when you need one
<micro_O>
cool, so in my repo kiss-lint found some post-install files that were not executable (and in fact were plain text files) and some sources files with stray newlines.
<acheam>
do the post installs even need to be executable?
<acheam>
cant you just write it in shell and it will execute?
<dilyn>
they need only be executable if they DO something that isn't just cat << EOF
<dilyn>
dylan said that somewhere, but never officially documented it afaik
<dilyn>
the package manager itself doesn't execute post-install files with this format, even if they ARE +x
<micro_O>
for kiss-lint, I think its best I implement what is official documentation, over unofficial behaviour
<dilyn>
oh wait, this may have changed?
<dilyn>
hmhmhm...
<micro_O>
that gives us a few futures: a) people ignore kiss-lint errors, b) i make some errors warnings, c) behaviour of kiss matches that of the documentation, d) documentation/kiss-lint gets updated to match behaviour of kiss
<micro_O>
I'm happy with all these futures
<micro_O>
I guess this documentation is being updated for `k`, tbh
<acheam>
# kiss-lint ignore: 321231
<dilyn>
hm, every post-install file in my clone of the repo is executable?
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<micro_O>
dilyn are you asking if that is correct?
<dilyn>
I'm just saying that either one of our repos is incorrect or your linter made a mistake
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<acheam>
wow shots fired
<micro_O>
dilyn which repo are you checking against
<dilyn>
lol, no shots just a sanity check
<dilyn>
all I did was clone kisslinux/repo
<dilyn>
oh in YOUR repo
<dilyn>
jesus
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<micro_O>
yeah i just ran kiss-lint against kisslinux/repo/extra, kisslinux/repo/core, and kisslinux/repo/wayland, and that passes for all three
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<dilyn>
nice!
<Guest5640>
Oh, kiss switched to wayland now ?
<micro_O>
dilyn I ran it against community, 12 errors, most of them are just missing/extraneous newlines in sources, and a few missing executable bits
<micro_O>
i'll make a pr shortly
<micro_O>
I also *might* propose a github action where kiss-lint runs against PRs as a nice sanity check, but that is way down the line
<Guest5640>
Ok I read that. Think I will stay on xorg because I like my suckless builds. How long do you guys think X will be popular for until Wayland takes over? Seems there are still some problems with Wayland.
<acheam>
what do you mean takes over?
<acheam>
in KISS land, it pretty much has except for a handfull of holdouts, myself included
<acheam>
i dont think that would do what he's trying to do
<acheam>
i think he has many of his own local commits
<akira01>
yeah
<acheam>
and is trying to only upstream a one/a few of them
<akira01>
much local commits
<dilyn>
but the simplest way to do PRs is almost always to create a new branch, make your changes, make the commit for those changes, push those changes to your mirror, and then make a PR to the repository you forked based on that new branch.
<acheam>
well we're past that point now
<dilyn>
f
<acheam>
so the way to fix it is to create a new branch, and use git rebase -i to delete everything but the commits that you want
<acheam>
or at least, thats how I would do it
<akira01>
nothing else can do?
<akira01>
because when i see git bruh repo some branches had hundred commits
<dilyn>
this is just the prompt for an interactive rebase
<akira01>
so i do rebase -i
<akira01>
and d the commit?
<akira01>
i mean i just do git rebase -i and save the prompt so nothing more
<akira01>
i need to do something?
<acheam>
you need to delete the commits that you dont want
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<akira01>
sooo
<akira01>
when the prompt appears
<akira01>
i do what?
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<acheam>
what prompt?
<acheam>
the $EDITOR window?
<akira01>
yeah
<acheam>
it has instructions in it
<akira01>
so
<akira01>
i need do something like git rebase - i drop commit?
<Guest56>
Man I really hate awk.
<acheam>
Guest56: awk is great
<acheam>
akira01: just delete the lines with the commits that you dont want to PR
<Guest56>
Well im trying to write a shell script that uses awk but I want to save the field delimiter because it contains important info. Can't seem to do that :|
<acheam>
oh like you're trying to determine what the delimiter it is using is?
<ang>
easier to help if you give us an example
<akira01>
acheam: okay did but now git push says ! [rejected]
<akira01>
hint: Updates were rejected because a pushed tip is behind its remote
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<Guest56>
Yeah so basically i'm writing a wifi menu with iwd and dmenu and the delimiter is the security method (e.g. psk), that way the first column is the wifi name even if it has white space. But I need to know what delimiter is to check for a passphrase. https://pastebin.com/mKaCWyt4
<acheam>
akira01: git push -f
<Guest56>
See how awk will mess up if the network name has spaces, that's why the security is used as delimiter
<akira01>
solved
<akira01>
goooosh
<akira01>
thanks man
<Guest56>
err maybe i don't need that
<Guest56>
will see tho
<Guest56>
If you type the command "iwctl device wlan0 connect $SSID" it will prompt you for a passphrase. Would have to enter in dmenu somehow
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<Guest56>
Oh yeah never mind can just do "command ... | dmenu"
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<msk[m]>
anyone else get "Checksum mismatch" when trying to build aerc-git? I thought git packages didn't need checksums?
<msk[m]>
kiss c aerc-git says "No sources needing checksums"
<dilyn>
correct. it shouldn't
<dilyn>
that's presumably because the checksum format has changed and it's impacted a certain subset of packages
<Guest56>
Is there any way to redirect the stdout of a command into the stdin for another command?
<dilyn>
use -
<dilyn>
some packages also default to reading stdin, so you can just |
<dilyn>
msk: looks like aerc used to provide prebuilt manpages, and then it was updated to remove them. but the checksum was never deleted
<dilyn>
claudia:
<msk[m]>
when I deleted the checksum file, I had another error
<msk[m]>
let me try again
<Guest56>
dilyn iwctl prompts for password, so I'd like to get the output for dmenu -p "Enter password" redirected to iwctl
<Guest56>
I don't know if what im asking is possible tho
<dilyn>
i have no idea how dmenu really works
<dilyn>
you can look at soemthing like pineentry-dmenu or w/e it is
<dilyn>
which does... something similar, afaik
<Guest56>
Well dmenu -p "Password" gives you a bar that you type into
<Guest56>
Whatever you type is the output
<msk[m]>
dmenu just sends the output to stdout, right? so you could do dmenu | iwctl or something similar
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<Guest56>
Yeah okay so my command is echo '' | dmenu -p "Enter password" -P | iwctl station wlp52s0 connect C1
<Guest56>
But iwctl says Operation aborted :|
<Guest56>
And it does show the password after the Passphrase prompt so idk
<Guest56>
Think it's iwctl's fault
<msk[m]>
maybe iwctl has an option to accept standard input
<msk[m]>
I use wpa_supplicant so I can't check
<msk[m]>
the error was "/usr/bin/kiss: line 1046: can't open /path/to/aerc-git/checksums: no such file"
<msk[m]>
Guest56: dilyn recommended trying -, which is pretty standard. something like "dmenu | iwctl -"
<acheam>
ew useless use of echo
<acheam>
just do ":| dmenu"
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<acheam>
iwctl might not accept stdin
<acheam>
in which case you can use xargs to move stdin to a CLI argument
<msk[m]>
but does iwctl support passwords as arguments
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<Guest56>
Hmm yes it does so that would work. What about for cases where no pass is required tho.
<Guest56>
For like public wifis
<Guest56>
There's no way to check if a password is required for SSID beforehand
<Guest56>
There is a security option that says "open" "psk" but i can't save those because they are the field delimiter I used to get the network name
<Guest56>
Open would mean no pass required but psk means a pass would be required
<ang>
why all the hassle with dmenu? Just write a shell script and run it in a terminal
<ang>
if you want something interactive, just print the output of the network list you linked us
<ang>
prompt for an ssid and then simply run iwd and let it prompt for a password itself
<ang>
keep it simple stupid?
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<dilyn>
people love their dmenu windows :V
<dilyn>
for some reason
<Guest56>
dilyn well i didn't know it would be this tough. thankfully the dmenu parts are only like 5 lines and the script would work fine without
<Guest56>
just basically the parts for connect, disconnect, known networks
<soliwilos>
dilyn: You're using pax, I think? Have you run into "tar: unknown option -- -" during a build?
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<dilyn>
not yet; what are you trying to build?
<soliwilos>
firefox was all but done, then didn't like my tar options.
<soliwilos>
Hasn't happened with anything else yet.
<dilyn>
strange
<msk[m]>
yeah, Guest56, what are you even making? iwctl by itself already works fine, no?
<dilyn>
it'll take me a hot second to try to reproduce it; you can see if you can reproduce my chromium issue in the meantime :V
<soliwilos>
I've never built chromium..
<dilyn>
it's during the extract step you'll see within the first two minutes lol
<soliwilos>
What is the issue?
<dilyn>
well when I extract the chromium archive manually i get a whole flurry of directories names variations of the tarball's name, and the one final directory you would expect (which is... perfectly fine, and the rest are just text files...)
<dilyn>
building with kiss, seems to break... either one thing horribly terribly, or everything super awfully (:
<dilyn>
like, I become unable to do much of anything involving extraction afterwords. lots of catastrophic failing. I have to reboot to fix it (which is why I left 30 minutes ago lmao)
<soliwilos>
Ow..
<dilyn>
also can anybody reproduce issues which look like this building the foot-pgo package? http://ix.io/3tE0
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<dilyn>
it only happens with PGO, but I want to make sure it isn't something unique to my system
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<soliwilos>
I'd need to rebuild some things with different options, foot-pgo just complains about /usr/lib/clang/12.0.1/lib/linux/libclang_rt.profile-x86_64.a not being available.
<soliwilos>
I suspect it will fail with gcc as well, since gcc is built without isl and I believe that is needed for lto.
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<soliwilos>
Hmm.. doesn't that really mean that the repo isn't really configured to build the foot-pgo package?
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<dilyn>
that would indeed be what that means. why would it want rt
<dilyn>
i can't build on a gcc system to sanity check you tho (:
<soliwilos>
Checked with gcc and it won't build foot-pgo either. I'm using gcc as-is from kisslinux/repo.
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<dilyn>
that should be an issue all on its own at the repo :X that no beuno
<claudia>
who need reproduction on foot-pgo?
<claudia>
I can build foot-pgo with gcc
<dilyn>
hmhmhmhmhm
<dilyn>
i wish this wasn't a 'me' problem :(
<claudia>
:<
<claudia>
be grateful, you can change something about this^^
<dilyn>
i mean, i don't know how much of a 'me' problem it is tbh; i can certainly build versions of foot off of git up until 232fb2
<dilyn>
lol yes I could try to stop doing dumb shit to my computer XD
<claudia>
^
<claudia>
Dont you have zfs and can roll back to a date when 232fb2 was released?
<claudia>
*dream*
<dilyn>
i'm not using zfs on my machine atm
<dilyn>
I'm debating waiting until i have all the drives in here that i'm going to have before doing it, or just YOLO'ing because they made pool expansion an option with 2.1.0
<dilyn>
i can also just peg foot at 69260dd and pester dnkl endlessly about it
<soliwilos>
Changing ld from lld to binutils led to a successful build here with gcc.
<claudia>
btw dilyn, I play around with my coreutils and tried out toybox.
<dilyn>
oh, yes lld is probably going to change something dramatic about building some things haha
<dilyn>
how was it claudia? are you a convert
<claudia>
I like that it seems _simpler_ to busybox, but not quite complete
<claudia>
2 issues have rise: 1. the toybox mount does not sucessfully mount my partitions in the first place. I have uuid in fstab. 2. which getty do you use in particular?
<claudia>
Do you supplement toybox with just util-linux or also ubase/sbase?
<dilyn>
i use util-linux for now
<dilyn>
i don't particularly like u/sbase
<claudia>
y, they feel...clunky?
<dilyn>
well, toybox and util-linux both have helpful --help for starters
<dilyn>
ls doesn't have color output which makes me sad :'(
<claudia>
just seing rn, util-linux also provides mount. Maybe this fixes my "not mount in the first try" issue.
<claudia>
lsad
<claudia>
Do I need a shutdown hook for unmount drives for hummingbird? It feels like it cuts the power on my machine ^^
<claudia>
Have played around with different coreutils the last few days, and now I really admit what busybox all can do, and how well KISS is build around it.
<dilyn>
surreally, toybox swapon doesn't support -a :V
<dilyn>
does nobody use kiss with bash as sh?
<dilyn>
because bash just like... breaks kiss...
<dilyn>
-> linux-headers Checking if manifest valid
<dilyn>
-> linux-headers Checking if package installable
<dilyn>
-> linux-headers Checking for package conflicts
<dilyn>
/usr/bin/kiss: line 158: cd: /var/db/kiss/installed/linux-headers: No such file or directory
<cem>
bash?
<cem>
ew
<dilyn>
indeed
<soliwilos>
bash belongs in /dev/null
<acheam>
dilyn: why do you do this to yourself?
<acheam>
also why would that fail?
<dilyn>
who tf knows
<dilyn>
I do it because sometimes toybox menuconfig doesn't want to play nicely with sh -> dash
<cem>
bash is like worst of all worlds
<cem>
not fast
<cem>
not stable
<cem>
not good enough to be a fancy user shell
<cem>
not good enough to link to /bin/sh
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<dilyn>
well the faster landley finishes toysh...
<cem>
And then there is yash which is the opposite :^)
<cem>
but it's gpl uh oh for dilyn
<dilyn>
don't worry I trap all gpl software in a chroot while using it
<acheam>
i gave yash a shot to test a bug in oksh, and was very surprised when I first launched t
<acheam>
it
<dilyn>
they never touch my precious /
<cem>
man, I'm really happy with yash
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<cem>
It's a great user shell without sacrificing anything
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<cem>
your kernel touches / dilyn
<cem>
everything you do
<cem>
gpl has a finger on it
<dilyn>
my kernel is segregated too don't worry
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<dilyn>
zfs complains if you have certain options enabled in the kernel config which i find hilarious
<cem>
everytime you poweroff, linus and stallman kisses your laptop good night