ChanServ changed the topic of #kisslinux to: KISS Linux | https://k1sslinux.org | /msg zr for kisslinux/* cloaks | logs: https://k1sslinux.org/irc#2.0 | thing of the day: https://vid.puffyan.us/watch?v=HVzC6WZImGY
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<noocsharp> o
<noocsharp> oops
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<technoznc> https://paste.debian.net/1203102 could these problems be musl related?
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<acheam> replacing uint with "unsigned int" will probably fix it
<acheam> uont is a nonstandard extension IIRC
<acheam> same thing with the other type
<acheam> just sed it in the build file
<acheam> technoznc:
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<technoznc> acheam: king, it worked, thanks so much
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<acheam> nice
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<testuser[m]> Hi
<midfavila> ih
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<m3g> ih
<technoznc> a package won't compile, should I post the log here, or open a github issue? its for dilyn
<midfavila> i'd try and work through it in here first, make sure it's really the package
<midfavila> what issue(s) are you running into?
<technoznc> midfavila: heres the log: https://termbin.com/i40q#
<technoznc> it fails at mv: can't rename '/root/.cache/kiss/proc/6948/pkg/py-sip/usr/include/python*/sip.h': No such file or directory
<midfavila> yeah, I'm looking at it right now
<midfavila> hmm
<midfavila> unless I'm looking at it wrong, the buildfile might need to be modified
<midfavila> the package is looking for the file at pkg/py-sip/usr/include/python*/sip.h, but it seems like it only ends up at build/py-sip/siplib/sip.h...
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<technoznc> yeah seems like it :/
<midfavila> aw fuck
<midfavila> i just recompiled the entire KISS image on the laptop itself, and it's still having the same error...
<midfavila> like I thought, it's this IOPL error...
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<sad_plan> why arent you just using an older archive instead, if the newest one is giving you a massive headache?
<sad_plan> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
<midfavila> because I'm stupid and this was supposed to be the start of archives
<midfavila> up until now my images have been pretty ad-hoc
<schillingklaus> won't older archives disappear?
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<sad_plan> why? it doesnt really matter if you choose an older one anyway. one can just update it once you have extracted it, and your up to speed anyway.
<sad_plan> schillingklaus: no, theyre still there on github. dilyn just posts new ones once in a while
<midfavila> i'm not talking about the standard archives on github
<midfavila> these are systems I'm putting together myself
<sad_plan> oh
<midfavila> it... might be my cflags...
<midfavila> that's the only thing I can think of, at this point...
<sad_plan> so your buiding your own kiss basicly?
<midfavila> mmh. I want to have an archive that I can pull down, untar, and reboot into a fully-working system
<midfavila> the annoying thing is that the only issue here is X. everything else works fantastically
<midfavila> lowest memory use I've ever hit, shaved four or so megs off my kernel, things are super responsive... but no GUI.
<sad_plan> strange
<midfavila> just gonna recompile all the X-related libs with -O2 -pipe -w -stack-protector instead of the standard set. that'll work... I hope.
<sad_plan> I dont get all the flags some guys are using, what does the -w -stack-protector even do?
<midfavila> -w prevents tons of warnings being spit out onto your terminal, and -stack-protector just enables some simple security optimizations
<midfavila> alpine uses it for all their packages, if I recall
<sad_plan> aah
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<schillingklaus> is gcc or clang used in the default packages?
<midfavila> look in core.
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<GalaxyNova> schillingklaus: packages usually use cc for compilling
<GalaxyNova> so whatever is symlinked to /bin/cc
<GalaxyNova> related: Anyone know any alternative C/C++ compilers to GCC that aren't Clang/LLVM?
<midfavila> plenty
<midfavila> tcc, for one
<schillingklaus> tcc
<midfavila> cproc for another
<sad_plan> tss and scc, but they only compile C, not C++ afaik
<midfavila> zig has a weird system
<midfavila> but i've heard that's not a proper compiler
<GalaxyNova> so can i like completely uninstall GCC and use tcc instead without any issues?
<midfavila> never
<GalaxyNova> why not
<midfavila> because it doesn't implement all of modern C, for one
<midfavila> and because a lot of unix programs are written with GNU extensions, for two
<GalaxyNova> but clang can compile those programs?
<midfavila> many of them, I've heard.
<midfavila> enough for it to be feasible.
<GalaxyNova> eh
<GalaxyNova> I wish there was more compiler diversity
<midfavila> i mean, writing a compiler is kind of a pain
<GalaxyNova> because it seems like the only viable options are clang and C++
<midfavila> especially for a modern language
<GalaxyNova> s/C++/GCC
<schillingklaus> and those suckers are written in c++
<midfavila> you can always try to port Rob Pike's compiler suite to linux
<GalaxyNova> also IIRC tcc is a dead project
<midfavila> yes, it is
<midfavila> hasn't been touched since the mid-'00s afaik
* GalaxyNova cries
<midfavila> gfdi
<midfavila> even after recompiling my entire graphics stack, it still refuses to work
<GalaxyNova> it's just that I wish there was a compiler that stuck to the standards and didn't add any shit extensions
<midfavila> nobody would use it
<GalaxyNova> why?
<GalaxyNova> people use POSIX shell when bash exists
<midfavila> it only happens to be used because bash is a superset of posix shell
<GalaxyNova> so is GNU C
<midfavila> just how most people write C99 or C11, but in reality they're writing GNU C
<midfavila> and there's a reason people use bash
<midfavila> and there's a reason people use GNU C
<midfavila> because it's easy.
<midfavila> the extra features provided are good for quality of life.
<midfavila> it's as simple as that.
<schillingklaus> I avoid bash bloat
<midfavila> good for you.
<GalaxyNova> > people use POSIX shell when bash exists
<GalaxyNova> why woudn't they use C standards when GNU C exists
<GalaxyNova> isn't it the same thing
<schillingklaus> openbsd makes it a bit easier, but they still have a hard time to get rid of gcc
<midfavila> I don't understand what you're trying to say. GNU C is a superset of C that adds quality of life features that make writing programs easier. Therefore, people will prefer GNU C or some similar superset to a strictly compliant compiler.
<midfavila> As a result, a strictly-compliant compiler isn't likely to be able to take hold, meaning writing pure C will likely not take hold.
<midfavila> there will always be edgecases, sure, but that's largely irrelevant.
<GalaxyNova> Bash is a superset of POSIX shell that adds quality of life features that make writing programs easier. But there are still people (like us) that prefer to write everything in POSIX shell.
<midfavila> and do you really think we're the norm?
<GalaxyNova> well
<GalaxyNova> ofc not
<midfavila> that's my point.
<midfavila> edgecases are irrelevant.
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<midfavila> the reason it isn't feasible to use something like TCC or CProc is because they're not standard, even if they're "pure".
<midfavila> at least with bash, it's fairly easy to replace scripts.
<midfavila> but C is a whole different ballpark.
<schillingklaus> i don't see any quality in the additional features
<midfavila> doesn't really matter what you think. as an outlier, you have two options: conform or fight an uphill battle.
<GalaxyNova> typeof is pretty useful tbh
<GalaxyNova> and i only learned until recent it's actually not portable
<midfavila> ...uh...
<schillingklaus> i prefer uphill battles, as in the case of going mouseless
<midfavila> that's not really uphill...
<midfavila> GUI programs have always had an option to work without a mouse.
<GalaxyNova> schillingklaus: give qutebrowser a try
<GalaxyNova> it's great
<midfavila> it's webkit and written in python and qt
<midfavila> that's... eh.
<midfavila> plus, it's just another browser with vi bindings.
<GalaxyNova> qutebrowser is not webkit
<GalaxyNova> it's chromium xD
<midfavila> webkit or qtwebengine
<midfavila> so it can use blink as a backend, but that would be even worse.
<GalaxyNova> it's chromium based
<midfavila> i'm literally looking at the wikipedia entry for it right now.
<GalaxyNova> well wikipedia is clearly wrong because i can litterally type "chrome://version" and it returns a valid webpage
<GalaxyNova> oh sorry i meant "chrome://dino"
<midfavila> and I can type about:mozilla in pale moon, but that doesn't mean it's based on quantum.
<midfavila> if you don't like wikipedia,
<midfavila> look at the fucking git page.
<GalaxyNova> Oh you're right
<midfavila> yes, shockingly, I know things sometimes.
<GalaxyNova> qtwebengine is still chromium based
<GalaxyNova> tho
<GalaxyNova> so ig
<GalaxyNova> I was also right
<GalaxyNova> in a way
<midfavila> it doesn't matter who's right because both options are ass.
<GalaxyNova> well what are the options
<GalaxyNova> the web is bloated
<midfavila> the option is to stop relying on the web.
<GalaxyNova> return to monke
<GalaxyNova> k
<midfavila> it's really not that hard.
<GalaxyNova> I think it would be really hard to find a replacement for common web applications we take for granted such as youtube, github, and most of all search engines
<midfavila> invidious, gitea, searx
<midfavila> or duckduckgo's lite page if you can't be assed to find a decent instance.
<GalaxyNova> searx is web based?
<GalaxyNova> so is duckduckgo?
<GalaxyNova> Unless you are talking about browsing everything from the terminal
<midfavila> ...if you aren't using the web, I fail to see how you would need a search engine. but if we're talking about removing the web entirely,
<midfavila> i suggest using your time for something more useful than browsing youtube.
* midfavila shrugs
<GalaxyNova> cough cough tutorials
<midfavila> cough cough textbooks.
<midfavila> cough cough libraries.
<GalaxyNova> I'm trying very hard right now to not call you a boomer
<GalaxyNova> xD
<midfavila> i didn't realize reading books to learn about new concepts made me a boomer.
<GalaxyNova> Alrisght, it's just that you can't deny it's much easier to search something up on the internet than to walk 30 minutes to the closest library.
<schillingklaus> does this include e-books?
<midfavila> e-books are a pain because of DRM, but if you can crack it or otherwise get unlocked books, it's w/e.
<midfavila> epub is preferable.
<schillingklaus> many libraries are still closed due to pandemics
<midfavila> GalaxyNova living outside of the norm isn't easy. I never said it was.
<midfavila> schillingklaus then buy your own books, or download copies off of libgen.is
<GalaxyNova> midfavila: Uninstall your web browser then
<midfavila> the only browser I have is links, and it's used exclusively for reading the news.
<midfavila> so.
<midfavila> i've already committed to praxis. i minimize web use and only engage with simple alternatives to mainstream systems whenever possible. a "no u" doesn't work against me.
<GalaxyNova> Some people need things such as microsoft teams for work or for school (like me). And I'm not about to install snapd and a proprietary program on my prized linux install. Also especially since the covid pandemic it's litterally impossible to live without proper access to the modern internet.
<midfavila> i dunno about that. i've been getting along fine without it.
<GalaxyNova> do you have school?
<midfavila> yup, today was the last day before summer break.
<midfavila> i receive transcripts and assignment information over email, perform my assignments, and submit them in the same manner.
<midfavila> the few times I'm required to attend a virtual meeting, I have a seperate burner machine that I picked up for like 20$.
<midfavila> ...and even then, those meetings are a huge waste of time... I don't know why the administration bothers.
<schillingklaus> I'm too old for school ... back in my days, schools had at best standalone amigas or so
<midfavila> The Amiga machines are cool. It's a shame Commodore was run by idiots.
* GalaxyNova sighs
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<testuser-broken> test
<testuser[m]> test
<testuser-broken> fail
<testuser-broken> bridge died again
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<midfavila> winrar moment
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<ang> that's what happens when you use busybox fold
<ang> oh, didn't look at the referenced lines
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<konimex> so, kde in mainline repo?
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<dilyn> not on my end!
<dilyn> i'm getting the notion that dylan is switching to wayland
<phoebos[m]> Oooh
<testuser[m]> nice
<testuser[m]> Ayyland
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<acheam> yes hes using sway right now
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<testuser[m]> Kde would still need dbus and a lot of junk tho
<testuser[m]> inb4 he's planning to strip all that out
<dilyn> he'd have to extend dbus-stub to support dbus-launch
<dilyn> or go all-in
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<kimerus> Man
<kimerus> Wtf happen whit kiss
<kimerus> I can't update
<kimerus> The last update broken
<dilyn> what's the problem
<testuser[m]> last update broken what
<kimerus> Kiss package
<kimerus> I updated
<kimerus> When i re-run kiss update
<kimerus> It can't create a directory
<dilyn> please be more specific
<kimerus> mkdir: can't create directory '/home/user/.cache/kiss/proc/kiss/1272': Permission denied
<illiliti> run: sh -x /bin/kiss update
<phoebos[m]> I think I've had that before, been meaning to investigate
<phoebos[m]> Are you root
<kimerus> No
<kimerus> I use kiss update without root
<dilyn> ls -l /home/user/.cache/* ?
<dilyn> did .cache/kiss exist before you ran kiss again?
<kimerus> Yes exist
<kimerus> '/home/user/.cache/kiss' is all for my user
<kimerus> And illiliti the command didnt work too
<kimerus> Same error
<illiliti> send full log
<illiliti> sh -x /bin/kiss update 2>&1 | nc termbin.com 9999
<kimerus> termbin/we81
<testuser[m]> Send output of ls -l ~/.cache
<testuser[m]> Maybe the dir didn't exist, you ran kiss as root and it got owned by it
<kimerus> And yes the kiss dir exist
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<phoebos> kimerus: just updated my kiss, same issue. it's happening in my KISS_TMPDIR
<phoebos> mkdir: can't create directory '/tmp/kiss/134617/': Permission denied
<phoebos> actually no it's not
<phoebos> i assume this is something to do with 8b0ad92
<testuser[m]> rm -rf ~/.cache/kiss/proc
<phoebos> $tmp_dir
<kimerus> testuser[m]: solved
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<dilyn> probably is...
<dilyn> weird that I didn't have this problem for like, the two straight days I tested these commits.
<dilyn> :|
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<phoebos> hm. alsa-lib failed to build as well. don't have time to debug now :(
<technoznc> dilyn: hi dilyn, did you noticed the build problem I posted earlier?
<dilyn> i didn't! what was it?
<dilyn> phoebos: logs pls
<kimerus> Man
<kimerus> After rm rf proc dir
<kimerus> Is necessary a reboot?
<kimerus> Because its freaking broken my kiss package manager
<dilyn> pls say no
<dilyn> /proc??
<kimerus> cache/kiss/proc
<dilyn> it certainly shouldn't
<dilyn> what exactly is broken
<kimerus> Well
<kimerus> It finish the update of package libffi (i think)
<kimerus> But
<dilyn> technoznc: this? https://paste.debian.net/1203102
<kimerus> It simple stop the build of other packages
<kimerus> I had 4 packges to update
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<kimerus> Kiss init the update of libffi and stop
<technoznc> dilyn: yeah
<technoznc> oh no
<technoznc> sec
<kimerus> And i do kiss update and well init again the build of libffi
<dilyn> https://termbin.com/i40q# this? lol
<technoznc> can't rename '/root/.cache/kiss/proc/6948/pkg/py-sip/usr/include/python*/sip.h': No such file or directory#
<technoznc> yyeah this one dilyn :D
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<dilyn> that's just because they moved it
<dilyn> hrng
<dilyn> hmmm they *didn't*, for some reason something something
<kimerus> Dilyn
<kimerus> i mean this
<kimerus> Don't know if is a package error or kiss package manager error
<dilyn> well find the directory that has the wrong permissions mate
<dilyn> it's potentially a package manager problem, assuming all the directories in ~ have the right permissions
<kimerus> What i need to do?
<kimerus> Already removed the cache/kiss/proc dir
<kimerus> And solved
<kimerus> But now a had this problem
<dilyn> right so...
<dilyn> use ls -l to identify the permissions of all the directories leading to that file it's failing to create
<dilyn> see which one is owned by the wrong user or group, or if some permissions are incorrect
<dilyn> i'm not having an issue, so I can't really help
<acheam> I too have had that permission denied issue resolved my removing the dir
<dilyn> technoznc: fixed, I'm just going to be less clever
<dilyn> interesante. will investigate
<technoznc> cool :3
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<kimerus> Man
<kimerus> Fuckkkkkkkk
<kimerus> I solved one
<kimerus> And had another
<acheam> konimex[m]: how do I build linux with byacc?
<testuser[m]> rm rf everything except bindir and sourcedir
<acheam> I'm getting "bison: unrecognized option: -"
<konimex> acheam : use this patch: https://lkml.org/lkml/diff/2020/1/30/410/1
<technoznc> dilyn: works, thanks for your time :)
<acheam> thanks konimexN
<acheam> !
<acheam> you know why it isnt merged?
<kimerus> someone getting error with last mesa update?
<testuser[m]> what error bruh
<kimerus> one second
<kimerus> Mesa fail because libffi
<kimerus> and everything fail because libffi
<kimerus> i cant even init firefox
<kimerus> but when i build the package kiss says it has installed
<acheam> hmm okay
<acheam> konimex: now I'm getting unknown assembler involved errors when building 5.13
<acheam> never had this with 5.10.44
<acheam> using llvm-as
<acheam> and clang
<konimex> hold up
<konimex> let's see
<acheam> just running "make LLVM=1 oldconfig"
<acheam> kk
<dilyn> kimerus: rebuild python
<dilyn> i failed to actually add that commit in my batch lmao
<kimerus> lol
<kimerus> yeah now it seems to gonna work
<kimerus> thks
<konimex> llvm-aw is not a 1:1 replacement for binutils as, so you'll need the LLVM_IAS=1 flag to use Clang's integrated assembler
<konimex> s/aw/as/
<acheam> ah okay
<acheam> Thanks! I remember using that at some point just forgot it
<acheam> aww clang CFI support is only for arm64 in this kernel version, why am I even bothering with it?
<acheam> hmm what method should I use for compressing the kernel, gzip, bzip, xz, or zstd?
<konimex> hmm, I probably should point back wyverkiss repos to dylan's
<acheam> maybe wait for an official announcement from him?
<konimex> I'm not sure, he's not on irc past two days, sooner or later someone will have to ask since it's confusing to have two kisses
<dilyn> Confusing indeed
<dilyn> acheam: obviously zstd
<acheam> well I dont use zstd for anything else
<dilyn> also a mistake :)
<acheam> :(
<acheam> will actually go through and enable zstd on some packages
<dilyn> lol
<dilyn> zstd is great because it can replace gzip/lzma/xz, but it doesn't support certain (gzip) flags so some things break
<dilyn> like the kernel (if config.gz is enabled), and chromium
<dilyn> womp
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<acheam> argh 5.13 is too much effort to get to build
<midfavila> i'd stick to 5.10
<midfavila> or 5.11
<acheam> ye
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<schillingklaus> I avoid zstd rigorously as it is the work of Zuckerberg
<midfavila> zucccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccc
<dilyn> for these speeds zuc can @ me every day of the week
<testuser[m]> some fb employees have contributed to the kernel too probably
<testuser[m]> Throw that away
<dilyn> ^ see: btrfs
<midfavila> avoiding btrfs and zstd is pretty easy.
<schillingklaus> btrfs is yet another mess
<midfavila> but arguing based on extremes is kind of silly.
* midfavila shrugs
<midfavila> ultimately, the best option - clearly - is to install SerenityOS
<midfavila> templeos will, however, suffice.
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<acheam> serenity is written in CPP thougu
<acheam> and uses gh/discord
<midfavila> just because kling does some cringe stuff doesn't mean serenity isn't based
<midfavila> although I suppose I'm more of a mezzano guy
<midfavila> ...actually, it looks like they've gotten it booting on real hardware now...
<midfavila> I should install it on my spare laptop
<kimerus> pango also failed to build wbay i need to rebuild?
<testuser[m]> kimerus
<testuser[m]> Logs
* midfavila sighs
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<claudia> kiss b $(kiss-revdepends libffi)
<claudia> prob glib
<claudia> you can see in your posted log that this is still a problem with libffi.
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<dilyn> pushed fix
<dilyn> smh
<dilyn> i thought i had checked glib
<claudia> no atk? I have just rebuild everything depend on libffi.
<claudia> and firefox...
<testuser[m]> Did the ABI change? You can just symlink libffi to the old version soname
<claudia> yes so number bump.
<claudia> Altough this works, I personaly dont like it as it seems messy.
<claudia> "messy" :D
<dilyn> smh
<dilyn> fixfixfixed
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<acheam> why doesnt kiss run kiss update in a subshell after updating itself?
<acheam> instead of instructing you to run it
<dilyn> because something something subshells are icky, i suppose
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<kimerus> So what you do when even glib not get build?
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<testuser[m]> What
<kimerus> I rebuild glib to solve pango
<kimerus> And glib had the same problem
<testuser[m]> Show the log bruh it's probably a dependency of glib being broken too
<testuser[m]> KISS_FORCE=1 kiss r glib; kiss b glib
<testuser[m]> It has revdep on itself so it's using system lib instead of one built inside the package
<testuser[m]> Even though it's not supposed to link against system, in the build file
<dilyn> absolutely hate glib :|
<testuser[m]> Its cuz of bundling json glib
<testuser[m]> But glib is wack anyway
<dilyn> do we even #need #json-glib
<testuser[m]> no
<dilyn> then why we got it :v
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<kimerus> Good question
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<dilyn> RFC: drop json-glib. Somebody who is using many, many glib packages, see if they link against /usr/lib/libjson-glib-1.0.so
<dilyn> afaik it's only 'used' by gtk3, and even then... I removed json-glib a while back when doing kiss-static and was totally fine
<acheam> one of my packages links to it
<acheam> mu
<dilyn> f
<acheam> I can package it seperately I guessM
<acheam> ?
<testuser[m]> Which
<testuser[m]> Port the software to use cjson
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<acheam> testuser[m]: mu
<acheam> the mail indexer
<acheam> how many calls to sed warrants using a patch?
<acheam> I'm at 4 right now
<acheam> ehr, 5 now
<dilyn> I usually use a patch when doing the change as a sed would be too challenging, I don't normally do it based just on the number of seds I use
<acheam> hm okay
<acheam> given I'm mostly just changing a single word or so in each regex, I think I'll keep it as a sed call
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<acheam> but its just changing one line in each call, so its not like its saving a repeating change or abuthing
<acheam> anything
<noocsharp> i sent a patch to improve alsa-lib documentation and it got ignored
<noocsharp> i guess we know why alsa documentation sucks now
<acheam> oof
<acheam> add it to the kiss pafkageM
<acheam> package?
<noocsharp> nah, it's library documentation which doesn't get built anyway
<acheam> my fingers are tired today lol, can't type shit
<acheam> ah
<noocsharp> required doxygen
<acheam> oof
<acheam> not that doxygen is that bad
<noocsharp> if the documentation had what i sent in the patch, it would have saved me so much time
<acheam> compared to some other doc generators
<acheam> maybe resend it?
<acheam> or bump the thread?
<acheam> cc the relevant people?
<noocsharp> mayhaps
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<cem> acheam: mu links to json-glib?
<acheam> yes
<acheam> mine did at least I can double check
<cem> Mine doesn't and I have json-glib installed
<cem> I can send you my build
<cem> Maybe it's becuase of '--disable-gtk' and '--disable-webkit', I don't know if you need that for your use case
<acheam> ah yeah its probably that
<acheam> I dont need it so will disable accordingly thanks!
<cem> You're welcome!
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<acheam> testuser[m]: how deeply is ruby needed for webkit2gtk building?
<GalaxyNova> dilyn: So seeing as Dylan is now maintaining the main repository and the package manager separately from kiss-community what's going to happen to kiss-community in the future
<dilyn> the questions begin
<dilyn> Dylan didn't ask for the domain or the VPS, so... I have no clue what his plans are
<dilyn> I have ideas of what they might be -- I'd probably just be patient :)
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<cem> acheam: the webkit source code is filled with ruby
<cem> 15007 SLOC on 47 files
<acheam> why is it just a make dep then?
<acheam> isnt ruby interpreted?
<cem> It generates C++ files afaik
<cem> Or assembly, I'm really not sure
<acheam> hm interesting
<acheam> but damn 15k lines is....
<acheam> more than a simple patch to remove lol
<cem> Yeah, I thought of that before :P
<cem> Though now that musl support is mainlined, I'll never touch the source code of that thing ever again
<cem> Well until the next ICU update breaks webkit, that is
<acheam> ulibc support when?
<cem> Eh, musl won
<cem> uclibc is not that good compared to musl
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<dilyn> bionic when
<acheam> ew the worse glibc
<acheam> glibc Designed In California
<noocsharp> time to replace 15k of ruby with 20k of lua
<noocsharp> it's sort of amazing how long it's taken for people finally put compile-time code execution into languages
<noocsharp> that afaict obviates all of this code generation
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